Hard to Argue w/Ravens' 1st 2 Picks in this year's draft but.......

[Dfence4champs2052]

It's just hard to look at all the WRs in this class that are just killing it this season. Looking at just the first two rounds, we had 3 go before we picked Mosley (Watkins, Evans, Beckam) and two after in the first round (Cooks, Benjamin).

 

Second round, three before us (M. Lee, J. Matthews, P. Richardson) and four after us (D.Adams, C. Latimer, A.Robinson, J. Landry). 

 

Both of our two picks have been impactful starters so there's no argument there. It's still just hard to reconcile how we missed out on the "best WR class in NFL history." Outside of Marlon Brown (I'm very high on him) I'm just not thrilled with our receiving corps. What could or should we have done????

 

 

[ratedr]

I remember a lot of people here wanting Latimer and Robinson. Sometimes the fans aren't wrong. It's definitely frustrating. And then we wonder why the offense underperforms.

[Alaska Alaska!]

It's just hard to look at all the WRs in this class that are just killing it this season. Looking at just the first two rounds, we had 3 go before we picked Mosley (Watkins, Evans, Beckam) and two after in the first round (Cooks, Benjamin).

 

Second round, three before us (M. Lee, J. Matthews, P. Richardson) and four after us (D.Adams, C. Latimer, A.Robinson, J. Landry). 

 

Both of our two picks have been impactful starters so there's no argument there. It's still just hard to reconcile how we missed out on the "best WR class in NFL history." Outside of Marlon Brown (I'm very high on him) I'm just not thrilled with our receiving corps. What could or should we have done????

I'm high on Marlon also.  I think Torrey, SSS, and JJ can be impactful players, but we need at least two more (a #1 WR and a stud TE) to make this a dynamic WR corps.  In other words, let's not throw away everyone we have, but limit their roles as premiere guys

[jazz1988]

I remember a lot of people here wanting Latimer and Robinson. Sometimes the fans aren't wrong. It's definitely frustrating. And then we wonder why the offense underperforms.

Latimer has done  nothing and Robinson is on i.r. Having better offensive weapons would help but after watching today game it wouldn't really matter honestly. I say this because  our offensive coordinator was just too predictable and Flacco was obviously rattled . If you have a rattled quarterback and offensive coordinator calling predictable plays than it really doesn't matter if you have Randy Moss and Jerry Rice out there  .

[StingerNLG]

I'm high on Marlon also.  I think Torrey, SSS, and JJ can be impactful players, but we need at least two more (a #1 WR and a stud TE) to make this a dynamic WR corps.  In other words, let's not throw away everyone we have, but limit their roles as premiere guys

 

And that is the problem.   You need someone that can be a game-changer or big playmaker on the WR corps so that you can open things up for Marlon Brown.   Look at today.   Who were the deep balls thrown to?   Kamar Aiken and Steve Smith.   Torrey Smith couldn't even run a medium route today without slipping to the ground, and then gets a mystery cramp going down the sideline later in the game.  

 

Watch the film.   I don't think anyone was doubling either Smith the entire game.   And their secondary was pretty much step for step with our receivers with constant safety help.  

 

Watching the Cowboys game I saw yet again receivers getting behind the secondary.  Heck around the entire league most teams have a big play receiver or two that seems to be able to run past cornerbacks and safeties.    When is the last time ANY of our receivers ran a step or two or more behind a secondary?   It seems to never happen.  And since all Torrey Smith can do is run downfield, DC's know to just run their fastest CB down with him and that pretty much locks him out except for PI calls.

 

We talk about other QB's being better, but man I'd love to have the WR's some of these guys do.   I'd love to have a Dez Bryant or Calvin Johnson, or even a Mike Wallace or AJ Green.   I'd settle for Jordy Nelson or Dwayne Bowe at this point.   Just SOMEONE that defenses have to account for every snap.   We have no one like that, and really never have.

[Dfence4champs2052]

I'm high on Marlon also.  I think Torrey, SSS, and JJ can be impactful players, but we need at least two more (a #1 WR and a stud TE) to make this a dynamic WR corps.  In other words, let's not throw away everyone we have, but limit their roles as premiere guys

I could definitely live with this plan. I wanted Evans for the Ravens because of his size. He seemed to fit the big body WR Ozzie was promising in the offseason.

[Dfence4champs2052]

Latimer has done  nothing and Robinson is on i.r. Having better offensive weapons would help but after watching today game it wouldn't really matter honestly. I say this because  our offensive coordinator was just too predictable and Flacco was obviously rattled . If you have a rattled quarterback and offensive coordinator calling predictable plays than it really doesn't matter if you have Randy Moss and Jerry Rice out there  .

This is very true.

[TDubbs]

We never had a shot at Watkins/Evans/Beckham unless we gave up a premium, which would of cost us Mosley so thats out of the question. In the 2nd I would have looooved Mathews but he was off the board and D.Adams, C. Latimer, A.Robinson, J. Landry would not have been an upgrade or better move than getting Jernigan. 

 

IMO, the only thing we could of done was trade up for Mike Evans. Man, would I love to see Flacco throwing to that beast. Considering we would have given up Mosley and maybe another 1st/2nd ...  it was likely too steep of a price to pay. 

[ratedr]

Marlon should be used more, whenever he's on the field good things happen.

[rmcjacket23]

Marlon should be used more, whenever he's on the field good things happen.

Well, he was on the field a large amount last season, and I didn't see too many good things happening.

 

Have fans considered the possibility that Brown is just really good in the role he is in now, which is basically as a third WR?

 

To be completely honest, I'm actually more impressed with him this year than last year, and I think that's directly related to me seeing less of him.

[gabefergy]

Well, he was on the field a large amount last season, and I didn't see too many good things happening.

Have fans considered the possibility that Brown is just really good in the role he is in now, which is basically as a third WR?

To be completely honest, I'm actually more impressed with him this year than last year, and I think that's directly related to me seeing less of him.

Exactly, he's good in a minor role. The Ravens need a #1 WR badly.

[JoeyFlex5]

what do we do? stick with the formula of not drafting 2nd round wr's in the first round, and nabbing the first round talents in the second, yeah we are lackluster at WR, but we are so stacked in the trenches, and the defensive front seven, that we are near tops in scoring defense even with the 31st(i think) pass defense, and near tops in rushing offense with no real outside threats to keep the defense honest and a mediocre RB. 

 

the day will come, when we get to take a WR for the right price, that day hasnt come yet, but it will, we just have to continue building from inside out, and when that big time WR finally lands here in bmore, the team will take off, but until then, we have to keep this team stacked in the more important positions, winning the battles in the trenches is the recipe for finding consistency on both sides of the ball, and one ugly performance which every team has on occasion, doesnt change that, if we are picking in the mid first and jaelen strong or kevin white is there, obviously take him, but if they arent and the next best WR is a early 2nd rounder at best, then do what we always do, keep building for the now AND for the future by adding the BPA, it is plain and simple how you build a championship team, fill holes through free agency and draft the best players available.

[Tru11]

Dfence4champs2052, on 22 Dec 2014 - 02:18 AM, said:

It's just hard to look at all the WRs in this class that are just killing it this season. Looking at just the first two rounds, we had 3 go before we picked Mosley (Watkins, Evans, Beckam) and two after in the first round (Cooks, Benjamin).

 

Second round, three before us (M. Lee, J. Matthews, P. Richardson) and four after us (D.Adams, C. Latimer, A.Robinson, J. Landry). 

 

Both of our two picks have been impactful starters so there's no argument there. It's still just hard to reconcile how we missed out on the "best WR class in NFL history." Outside of Marlon Brown (I'm very high on him) I'm just not thrilled with our receiving corps. What could or should we have done????

 

lil bit early to label this the best WR draft class ever lol

 

it  has the potential to become that but thats about it at this point.

 

Also the ravens had no shot getting the top 3 guys and pretty much none of the later WRs where worth our top 2 picks.

 

martavis bryant was an option but it would have cost us gilmore and maybe john brown instead of brooks.

those are the only 2 realistic options we had .

[Purple Punishment]

lil bit early to label this the best WR draft class ever lol

it has the potential to become that but thats about it at this point.

Also the ravens had no shot getting the top 3 guys and pretty much none of the later WRs where worth our top 2 picks.

martavis bryant was an option but it would have cost us gilmore and maybe john brown instead of brooks.

those are the only 2 realistic options we had .

Gilmore has been outperformed by Bryant this year ten-fold. We needed a revamped O

[Dfence4champs2052]

lil bit early to label this the best WR draft class ever lol

 

it  has the potential to become that but thats about it at this point.

 

Also the ravens had no shot getting the top 3 guys and pretty much none of the later WRs where worth our top 2 picks.

 

martavis bryant was an option but it would have cost us gilmore and maybe john brown instead of brooks.

those are the only 2 realistic options we had .

 

It was in quotes to indicate those weren't my words. But I've heard tons of people say it. I haven't been able to think of a much better clear cut class myself. We could have taken any of the receivers after the first three.

[Dfence4champs2052]

Well, he was on the field a large amount last season, and I didn't see too many good things happening.

 

Have fans considered the possibility that Brown is just really good in the role he is in now, which is basically as a third WR?

 

To be completely honest, I'm actually more impressed with him this year than last year, and I think that's directly related to me seeing less of him.

Whatever the case, he's been the most consistent pass catcher when on the field. But I get what you're saying......a smaller sample size size he isn't on the field as much. Guess we won't know unless he starts again.

[Tru11]

Purple Punishment, on 22 Dec 2014 - 04:49 AM, said:

Gilmore has been outperformed by Bryant this year ten-fold. We needed a revamped O

 

they play different positions though.

 

there is no guaranteed that bryant would produce on this team.

 

steelers basicially use him on deep routes to stretch the field so brown can work underneath.

 

he is basicially a bigger version of torrey smith lol

at this point worse RR though.

[Tru11]

It was in quotes to indicate those weren't my words. But I've heard tons of people say it. I haven't been able to think of a much better clear cut class myself. We could have taken any of the receivers after the first three.

 

not really though.

we would had to reach for most and or trade up to get them.

none of them are really worth giving up mosley or jernigan at this point.(outside top 3)

 

 

also i think its the 1996 class that is labeld the best WR class ever:

Keyshawn Johnson, Terry Glenn, Eddie Kennison, Marvin Harrison, Eric Moulds, Bobby Engram, Terrell Owens, Muhsin Muhammad, Amani Toomer, Jermaine Lewis, and Joe Horn

[Dfence4champs2052]

not really though.

we would had to reach for most and or trade up to get them.

none of them are really worth giving up mosley or jernigan at this point.(outside top 3)

 

 

also i think its the 1996 class that is labeld the best WR class ever:

Keyshawn Johnson, Terry Glenn, Eddie Kennison, Marvin Harrison, Eric Moulds, Bobby Engram, Terrell Owens, Muhsin Muhammad, Amani Toomer, Jermaine Lewis, and Joe Horn

How? I see one HoFer on there but not much else.

[Raving_Heathen]

Maybe my expectations are low, but I still think we have a pretty good receiving corp with Sr, Torrey, Marlon, Aiken, and Camp. Throw in Pitta, OD, and Juice, and things look really good on paper.

 

Regardless I don't think there's any Ravens fan that would give up Mosley for any of those receivers, even Beckham, and even with 20/20 hindsight.

[Tru11]

Dfence4champs2052, on 22 Dec 2014 - 05:06 AM, said:Dfence4champs2052, on 22 Dec 2014 - 05:06 AM, said:

How? I see one HoFer on there but not much else.

 

not much else?

 

yeah okay lol

 

guess receivers who get close to 10.000 yards grow on trees lol

[StingerNLG]

Maybe my expectations are low, but I still think we have a pretty good receiving corp with Sr, Torrey, Marlon, Aiken, and Camp. Throw in Pitta, OD, and Juice, and things look really good on paper.

 

Regardless I don't think there's any Ravens fan that would give up Mosley for any of those receivers, even Beckham, and even with 20/20 hindsight.

 

So out of those receivers, who is the #1 playmaker?   Who's our Dez Bryant?  Our Randall Cobb?  Our Julio Jones/Roddy White?  Our AJ Green?   Because we don't have that.

 

We have no idea about Campanaro at this point, he got hurt two games into him sniffing the field.   There is also no guarantee that Dennis Pitta will ever play again.   I don't care what Harbaugh says.  Who honestly thinks he can come back from his hip, and if he does will ever be the same player again?

 

Steve Smith shows up against the NFC teams.   So far he hasn't shown up in AFC games.   He had what 49 yards today?  And how many more drops?  

 

I finally figured out who Torrey Smith reminds me of.   Travis Taylor.   Except Torrey also cannot run any routes except 9's and the occasional slant, and can't catch a ball that hits him right in the chest.   He doesn't take the top off the defense, and almost never gets behind cornerbacks when he runs downfield.   Defenses have figured him out and don't even double-team him at this point.

 

Speaking of Juszcyzk, did he even play today?   Those fumbles must have him in the doghouse because I don't remember seeing him at all, even on running plays.

 

I like Marlon Brown, so I'd like to see more of him.   I think Aiken can be a 4th WR.  Imagine if Aiken took two steps forward and caught that pass from Flacco against San Diego.  

 

I do not like our WR corps overall.   We need an upgrade.   We won't get one though, because Ozzie doesn't draft by need.

[Raving_Heathen]

So out of those receivers, who is the #1 playmaker?   Who's our Dez Bryant?  Our Randall Cobb?  Our Julio Jones/Roddy White?  Our AJ Green?   Because we don't have that.

 

Why do you need any of those guys (might as well throw in Megatron too)? Are they helping their teams win championships, or even make the playoffs on a consistent basis? (Cobb doesn't count since he plays with the best QB in the league.) Don't get me wrong. Would love to have a legit #1 WR on this team for once, but I don't think a single player is going to magically make this offense better/more consistent...

[rmw10]

Why do you need any of those guys (might as well throw in Megatron too)? Are they helping their teams win championships, or even make the playoffs on a consistent basis? (Cobb doesn't count since he plays with the best QB in the league.) Don't get me wrong. Would love to have a legit #1 WR on this team for once, but I don't think a single player is going to magically make this offense better/more consistent...

I don't think we need a guy like that, although I definitely wouldn't say no to one of them lol. However, what we're missing is a pass catcher that can consistently get open and catch most of what comes his way. We don't have that.

[redlobster]

Trading back in the first and getting kelvin Benjamin would have been a steal in hindsight . I thought he would be a bust but he has been strong on a panthers team with no other receivers

[StingerNLG]

Why do you need any of those guys (might as well throw in Megatron too)? Are they helping their teams win championships, or even make the playoffs on a consistent basis? (Cobb doesn't count since he plays with the best QB in the league.) Don't get me wrong. Would love to have a legit #1 WR on this team for once, but I don't think a single player is going to magically make this offense better/more consistent...

 

Well, the Bengals can win their way into another playoffs and an AFC North Title.   The last two years withstanding the Falcons had been to the playoffs multiple times with Roddy White/Julio Jones.   It can be done.

 

My bigger point is that we've talked about for example the Ravens not being able to turn FG's into TD's in games like the Chargers.   If we had one of those receivers above that could get open in the endzone and CATCH the ball like our receivers often this year could not, with the running game we had and the OL playing like it did, you don't think that would have been the difference?

 

We have a strong-armed QB.   How many more TD's could have scored throwing to a receiver that was able to get steps on CB's?   

 

And how many of those WR's do other teams have to gameplan for?   Who do opposing DC's gameplan for on our team now?   Which WR is getting doubled up?   None of them.

[PurpleCity5]

Did you follow the entire 2014 NFL Draft process and pre-draft workouts/meetings? (Sorry if I sounded rude, I don't mean to offend, just a question). 

 

During the entire pre-draft process if there was one guy the Baltimore Ravens were targeting, it was Mike Evans. We were likely picking at the 16th-17th pick, Mike Evans was bound to be there. There's no way he'd be picked early. Welp, he completely destroyed his combine and his stock exploded, and was now out of reach. Then C.J Mosely arrived and became the target and now he's a Raven. 

 

Ozzie doesn't hesitate to select WR's, we're just unlucky I guess  

 

Also add in Dez Bryant who was bound to become a Raven until the cowboys traded up to grab him. 2010 wasn't our best year in the draft, but Dennis Pitta and Arthur Jones turned out very well. 

 

 

[PurpleCity5]

And that is the problem.   You need someone that can be a game-changer or big playmaker on the WR corps so that you can open things up for Marlon Brown.   Look at today.   Who were the deep balls thrown to?   Kamar Aiken and Steve Smith.   Torrey Smith couldn't even run a medium route today without slipping to the ground, and then gets a mystery cramp going down the sideline later in the game.  

 

Watch the film.   I don't think anyone was doubling either Smith the entire game.   And their secondary was pretty much step for step with our receivers with constant safety help.  

 

Watching the Cowboys game I saw yet again receivers getting behind the secondary.  Heck around the entire league most teams have a big play receiver or two that seems to be able to run past cornerbacks and safeties.    When is the last time ANY of our receivers ran a step or two or more behind a secondary?   It seems to never happen.  And since all Torrey Smith can do is run downfield, DC's know to just run their fastest CB down with him and that pretty much locks him out except for PI calls.

 

We talk about other QB's being better, but man I'd love to have the WR's some of these guys do.   I'd love to have a Dez Bryant or Calvin Johnson, or even a Mike Wallace or AJ Green.   I'd settle for Jordy Nelson or Dwayne Bowe at this point.   Just SOMEONE that defenses have to account for every snap.   We have no one like that, and really never have.

I don't think we can complete for ever without an intimidating force. The game is not what it used to be. Nowadays, I see teams now following the Bears method of two elite WR's, something that was employed by the Colts a while ago with Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne. New York Giants and Tampa Bay both went WR early knowing well that it's not the biggest need. 

 

I think that when you consider how the game of Football has changed from a team mentality to an offensive show, WR's have a growth in value. 

 

I think we took for granted the team we had a while back from the 2011 and 2012 season. I also believe we took for granted how great of a player AnQuan Boldin really is. Just his ability as a big player with great leaping ability. He doesn't really burn his man, but he has great jump ball ability. That's exactly what we're missing. Heck, I can admit it, we do miss his talent. I also think we take for granted how good our receiving corps really was during the 2011 and 2012 season. I mean accounting for a speedster like Torrey Smith and then a huge target like AnQuan Boldin, who you cannot put a 5 feet CB on, that really did force teams to think a lot. Then again, do you put you're slower guy on Torrey? The combination, not the talent was lethal. Then add in Dennis Pitta and the run game. Then you realize how bad Cam Cameron really was for this team. I think that offense and Kubiak would do wonders. 

 

I was also high on Marlon Brown, still holding onto hope. Truth is he didn't have a great camp. I was seriously hoping he'd have a better season, sophomore slump is real. I actually though heading into the season, he'd become the #2 guy behind Torrey with Smith Sr. at the slot. 

 

 

It is what it is. Everything happens for a reason and I'm happy. I love Mosley and Timmy. This team wouldn't be the same without them. As far as pass catchers are concerned we will probably need an elite receiver. Teams just aren't scared of our guys. Dez Bryant, A.J Green, Jordy Nelson, Calvin Johnson, Antonio Brown...They make teams study and game plan, our guys just force teams to make adjustments. Soon enough we're going to need that. 

 

Ozzie is not dumb, he's a great GM who'll make the adjustments and knows what we're missing. He'll find the guy we're looking for. 

[codizzle]

I remember a lot of people here wanting Latimer and Robinson. Sometimes the fans aren't wrong. It's definitely frustrating. And then we wonder why the offense underperforms.

Only two players I knew enough about that I absolutely wanted

Robinson and aaron donald... Obviously couldn't have gotten donald but still upset we didn't land a WR

[arnie_uk]

I was also a big Allen Robinson fan. Haven't seen him mucg at all in the pros