Next up: Browns part 2

[Ravenseconbeast]

Why are you still wondering?  Joe got paid.  Move on.  Instead of bringing up his salary, we should focus on getting him going by putting the right schemes and players in place

 

gary kubiak isnt the right guy then? again?

[Ravenseconbeast]

I see one but not two. I'd trade our entire WR group for EITHER Cobb or Nelson.

 

Not to say that Rodgers isn't worlds better than Flacco, but still.

 

(Though it should be noted that a great DL will make even Rodgers look bad, see SEA and BUF)

 

Jennings went to vikings and became:

 

Cobb went to _____ then became:   

 

Pretty sure it be the same scenario.   Cobb or Nelson wouldn't make flacco look good any better than Torrey would.

If Rodgers had Torrey, torrey would be the next Randy Moss.   

[ratedr]

Jennings went to vikings and became:

 

Cobb went to _____ then became:   

 

Pretty sure it be the same scenario.   Cobb or Nelson wouldn't make flacco look good any better than Torrey would.

If Rodgers had Torrey, torrey would be the next Randy Moss.   

I've watched the Packers, Cobb and Nelson generally don't drop passes like Torrey (except against BUF, and guess what they lost that game). They also know how to run routes. Flacco can't make Torrey not slip on the turf.

 

Marlon, Aiken, and Camp have looked good in limited action. Don't tell me Torrey has been disappointing because of Flacco. His issues (questionable hands, bad route running) were known when he came out of the draft and have not improved since, perhaps even regressed.

[ratedr]

Torrey has exactly one great catch this season: the first TD against San Diego. That's it.

[Ravenseconbeast]

I've watched the Packers, Cobb and Nelson generally don't drop passes like Torrey (except against BUF, and guess what they lost that game). They also know how to run routes. Flacco can't make Torrey not slip on the turf.

 

Marlon, Aiken, and Camp have looked good in limited action. Don't tell me Torrey has been disappointing because of Flacco. His issues (questionable hands, bad route running) were known when he came out of the draft and have not improved since, perhaps even regressed.

 

My answer to Alaska2x was that if Rodgers had a receiver that was a '1-trick pony'  he'd make him the best 1-trick pony you've ever seen.   

He'd make Torrey into Randy Moss.  Whereas Flacco would make Nelson/Cobb into pedestrian avg joes.   

I still have hope that Ravens can get a great QB one day, and not live on fear on basis of 'so what QB is there we can grab out there? yeah thought so, Flacco is worth it'.    Flacco is a mediocre QB.   Never will be a great one.   I just feel like we are wasting another 5-6-7 years if we live on that kind of fear.  

 

Flacco should've tested his market after SB, and we should just do what we've been doing (rebuilding the young D as it is now) and wait for a QB that can be great for us.  

 

So far after 2 years, nothing tells me what he has done has ever amounted to what his contract dictates.  I have a feeling Flacco wouldn't save a franchise or made us regret anything about not paying him the 120m contract.

[jimmypowder]

anyone else feel like we might be the next cardinals? go 10-6 miss the playoffs and dominate one year later? i would be willing to sacrifice this year to dominate the next couple. might be a stretch though.

No . We are missing talent ,particularly on offense and the secondary .

[ratedr]

My answer to Alaska2x was that if Rodgers had a receiver that was a '1-trick pony'  he'd make him the best 1-trick pony you've ever seen.   

He'd make Torrey into Randy Moss.  Whereas Flacco would make Nelson/Cobb into pedestrian avg joes.   

I still have hope that Ravens can get a great QB one day, and not live on fear on basis of 'so what QB is there we can grab out there? yeah thought so, Flacco is worth it'.    Flacco is a mediocre QB.   Never will be a great one.   I just feel like we are wasting another 5-6-7 years if we live on that kind of fear.  

 

Flacco should've tested his market after SB, and we should just do what we've been doing (rebuilding the young D as it is now) and wait for a QB that can be great for us.  

 

So far after 2 years, nothing tells me what he has done has ever amounted to what his contract dictates.  I have a feeling Flacco wouldn't save a franchise or made us regret anything about not paying him the 120m contract.

You're replying to me but addressed nothing I posted. Nelson and Cobb are better than Torrey. They have are better route runners and have more reliable hands. When they weren't reliable and dropped a ton of passes, guess what? The great Aaron Rodgers and the Packers LOST and Rodgers had his worst career game. And guess what, there's nothing that he, or any other QB could've done about it because a QB can't make receivers run routes or catch passes. Rodgers wouldn't be able to do that for Torrey and neither can Flacco. But tell me how Rodgers would've made Torrey not slip before Flacco's 3rd INT. Torrey's issues were known before he was even on an NFL roster. That's not QB dependent, that's on him.

 

Using this game as an excuse to write off the rest of Flacco's good season is pathetic, and this myth of "Good QBs not needing playmakers" has to stop. Luck without TY Hilton today? Trash. Rodgers when his receivers sucked last week? Trash. Peyton with no Thomas against STL? Trash. Brady all of last year with just Amendola (but still a good OL and run game)? Average. There is NO SUCH THING as a QB who works well with nothing. Some QBs need more than others, but all QBs need reliable targets. Not future hall of famers. Simply reliable targets. And when talking reliable, SSS and Torrey are NOT that right now.

 

We should've waited for a new QB? Yes, because the history of the Ravens suggests that that's such an easy thing to do. Ask the Raiders/Jags/Browns and other teams that have been in prime position with high draft picks to get new QBs how easy it is. I wasn't even going to acknowledge that comment because it was so ridiculous.

[PoeDinkum]

Hey folks, don't dispair...WHEN we do get a "playmaker" on offense, Joe won't be making him better, or be able to take credit for any success, since by the logic espoused by Franco apologists the "playmaker" would be able to make Flacco look like a world beater.

[ratedr]

Hey folks, don't dispair...WHEN we do get a "playmaker" on offense, Joe won't be making him better, or be able to take credit for any success, since by the logic espoused by Franco apologists the "playmaker" would be able to make Flacco look like a world beater.

Anyone here can tell you that I'm hardly a Flacco apologist, but I can't stand people with a blind anti-Flacco agenda either.

Flacco did plenty helping Brown and Aiken along, but let's continue to act that he's the biggest liability on this offense. Nonsense. Aside from today he has EASILY been the most consistent player on offense along with Forsett and Yanda.

[Ravenseconbeast]

You're replying to me but addressed nothing I posted. Nelson and Cobb are better than Torrey. They have are better route runners and have more reliable hands. When they weren't reliable and dropped a ton of passes, guess what? The great Aaron Rodgers and the Packers LOST and Rodgers had his worst career game. And guess what, there's nothing that he, or any other QB could've done about it because a QB can't make receivers run routes or catch passes. Rodgers wouldn't be able to do that for Torrey and neither can Flacco. But tell me how Rodgers would've made Torrey not slip before Flacco's 3rd INT. Torrey's issues were known before he was even on an NFL roster. That's not QB dependent, that's on him.

 

Using this game as an excuse to write off the rest of Flacco's good season is pathetic, and this myth of "Good QBs not needing playmakers" has to stop. Luck without TY Hilton today? Trash. Rodgers when his receivers sucked last week? Trash. Peyton with no Thomas against STL? Trash. Brady all of last year with just Amendola (but still a good OL and run game)? Average. There is NO SUCH THING as a QB who works well with nothing. Some QBs need more than others, but all QBs need reliable targets. Not future hall of famers. Simply reliable targets. And when talking reliable, SSS and Torrey are NOT that right now.

 

We should've waited for a new QB? Yes, because the history of the Ravens suggests that that's such an easy thing to do. Ask the Raiders/Jags/Browns and other teams that have been in prime position with high draft picks to get new QBs how easy it is. I wasn't even going to acknowledge that comment because it was so ridiculous.

 

I disagree.  I say great QB make receivers great.  So many WRs has been passed around and changed over Rodgers career, but he has always been a top QB both statistically and in winning.   

That goes for Tom Brady, Manning, Big Ben and many other QBs that are truly special.  

 

 

For Joe, you can clearly see how terrible he can get when forsett isnt being the top 5 back in NFL, o-line being bent out shape.   Thats where joe stands, a avg dud.  

[ratedr]

I disagree.  I say great QB make receivers great.  So many WRs has been passed around and changed over Rodgers career, but he has always been a top QB both statistically and in winning.   

That goes for Tom Brady, Manning, Big Ben and many other QBs that are truly special.  

 

 

For Joe, you can clearly see how terrible he can get when forsett isnt being the top 5 back in NFL, o-line being bent out shape.   Thats where joe stands, a avg dud.  

Flacco looks bad when the OL is bad? Wow that's truly a huge indictment on how terrible he is as a quarterback!

 

Seriously?

 

Once again, you can't explain why all those QBs looked bad when their weapons were out. Brady had one of his worst seasons last year with no Gronk even with the excellent running game, what changed? Nor did you address how nobodies like Brown, Aiken, and Camp have somehow been effective in limited action.

 

Megatron, Green, Dez, Julio and the like are great because they are great, not because of their QBs. 

ODB bending halfway to catch that pass wasn't a "QB making a rookie better." That was the receiver being a beast. Giving all of the credit to QBs is pretty disrespectful really. A good QB will make them look even better because they'll have more opportunities to make plays, but a QB can't stop receivers from slipping on routes or dropping passes.

 

And the funny thing is we don't even need receivers of those caliber. We already have a reliable third down machine on the roster in Brown, yet we don't use him that much, probably because the coaching staff is afraid of SSS's whining.

[K-Dog]

yeah its official.

 

I am going.

 

Lets hope my trend continues.


BTW is there a chance this game could be flexed ?
I doubt it but I dont know if there is any "more playoff sensitive " games or not.

[ravensdfan]

My answer to Alaska2x was that if Rodgers had a receiver that was a '1-trick pony'  he'd make him the best 1-trick pony you've ever seen.   

He'd make Torrey into Randy Moss.  Whereas Flacco would make Nelson/Cobb into pedestrian avg joes.   

I still have hope that Ravens can get a great QB one day, and not live on fear on basis of 'so what QB is there we can grab out there? yeah thought so, Flacco is worth it'.    Flacco is a mediocre QB.   Never will be a great one.   I just feel like we are wasting another 5-6-7 years if we live on that kind of fear.  

 

Flacco should've tested his market after SB, and we should just do what we've been doing (rebuilding the young D as it is now) and wait for a QB that can be great for us.  

 

So far after 2 years, nothing tells me what he has done has ever amounted to what his contract dictates.  I have a feeling Flacco wouldn't save a franchise or made us regret anything about not paying him the 120m contract.

Wow you are truly trying to compare Cobb & Nelson to what we have at receiver? That's so ridiculous I'm not even going to bother.

[jazz1988]

My answer to Alaska2x was that if Rodgers had a receiver that was a '1-trick pony'  he'd make him the best 1-trick pony you've ever seen.   

He'd make Torrey into Randy Moss.  Whereas Flacco would make Nelson/Cobb into pedestrian avg joes.   

I still have hope that Ravens can get a great QB one day, and not live on fear on basis of 'so what QB is there we can grab out there? yeah thought so, Flacco is worth it'.    Flacco is a mediocre QB.   Never will be a great one.   I just feel like we are wasting another 5-6-7 years if we live on that kind of fear.  

 

Flacco should've tested his market after SB, and we should just do what we've been doing (rebuilding the young D as it is now) and wait for a QB that can be great for us.  

 

So far after 2 years, nothing tells me what he has done has ever amounted to what his contract dictates.  I have a feeling Flacco wouldn't save a franchise or made us regret anything about not paying him the 120m contract.

 

I hate when fans try to compare Flacco to other quarterbacks especially when it comes to guys like Rodgers, Brady, and Manning. Do any of you guys actually take notice on how great their offensive system is? Matt Flynn aka The Packers back up quarterback actually look like a starting quarterback in Packers offensive system and the same can be said about Matt Cassel as a Patriot.

 

 I love how their offense is able to adapt to any situation and I love our offense that we run now but we obviously suck at making in game adjustments like The Packers, Patriots, and Broncos do. Flacco was obsoulutely rattled today and Gary Kubiak did nothing to help his quarterback get comfortable but for some reasons that's Flacco fault regardless. Our receivers was clearly struggling to get open but we rarely used bunch formation or rub routes but for some reasons that's Flacco fault.  We leave a rookie right tackle to pass protect against JJ Watt with no help what so ever which only made it easier for Watt to pressure Flacco whom already was uncomfortable but for some reasons that's Flacco fault.

 

 

We rarely use the no huddle and allow Flacco to audible which he excels at but that's Flacco fault to but it is what it is. I just hope  we beat the browns.

[rmcjacket23]

Hey folks, don't dispair...WHEN we do get a "playmaker" on offense, Joe won't be making him better, or be able to take credit for any success, since by the logic espoused by Franco apologists the "playmaker" would be able to make Flacco look like a world beater.

You literally just described AJ Green...

[ravensdfan]

Hey folks, don't dispair...WHEN we do get a "playmaker" on offense, Joe won't be making him better, or be able to take credit for any success, since by the logic espoused by Franco apologists the "playmaker" would be able to make Flacco look like a world beater.

Joe has already proven he makes receivers better. He's made the sub par talent on our current receiving corps look so good everyone still tries to claim they are actual true #1 and #2. It's laughable.

[ratedr]

Joe has already proven he makes receivers better. He's made the sub par talent on our current receiving corps look so good everyone still tries to claim they are actual true #1 and #2. It's laughable.

I would like to see Torrey go to another team and see how he does. Very doubtful he gets the 10 TDs he somehow managed this season unless he works overtime with a jugs machine and gets route lessons from Mase.

[ratedr]

I'm being forced to defend Flacco way more than I would prefer to after the trash he put on the field today.

[rmcjacket23]

I would like to see Torrey go to another team and see how he does. Very doubtful he gets the 10 TDs he somehow managed this season unless he works overtime with a jugs machine and gets route lessons from Mase.

It sort of depends really. If he went to a team like Arizona that focuses on down field passing, then he very well may perform like he did in 2013 (which I think is about his ceiling really).

 

If Torrey Smith played for a Peyton Manning or even probably a Tom Brady-led offense right now, he actually would probably be a part time player who gets phased out of the offense by the end of the season.

[ratedr]

It sort of depends really. If he went to a team like Arizona that focuses on down field passing, then he very well may perform like he did in 2013 (which I think is about his ceiling really).

 

If Torrey Smith played for a Peyton Manning or even probably a Tom Brady-led offense right now, he actually would probably be a part time player who gets phased out of the offense by the end of the season.

Maybe the issue is that Torrey just doesn't really fit Kubiak's system that emphasizes short passing and route running. And I'm not talking this game only, I'm talking the entire season. Basically every important offensive player has had a better season this year except him.

[rmcjacket23]

I'm being forced to defend Flacco way more than I would prefer to after the trash he put on the field today.

The reality is that everybody in the world knows Flacco sucked today. He played his poorest game of the year, and its not close. He was a major reason why we lost this case, yet you can also argue he was one of our better offensive players today.

 

You have to expect this to be a Flacco bashing day, because we simply haven't heard from those people in quite awhile, because they couldn't say a word.

 

In the end, it doesn't matter. He's going to be the QB of this team for quite some time, and a performance like this does nothing to change that.

[rmcjacket23]

Maybe the issue is that Torrey just doesn't really fit Kubiak's system that emphasizes short passing and route running. And I'm not talking this game only, I'm talking the entire season. Basically every important offensive player has had a better season this year except him.

I think at this point there's zero doubt that Torrey isn't an ideal receiver for this offense as presently designed. I think he is a beneficial player to have in that he can still make safeties play further off the ball and he's still a pretty solid deep threat in this league, but there's almost no question that he was far more valuable in a Cam or Caldwell offense that was content with throwing deep often.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

We can still get in but need help.

We have to beat the Browns. And then if either KC beats San Diego OR Denver or Pitt beat Cinci we would make the playoffs.

I still like our chances.

[ratedr]

We can still get in but need help.

We have to beat the Browns. And then if either KC beats San Diego OR Denver or Pitt beat Cinci we would make the playoffs.

I still like our chances.

It's not an OR with DEN/PIT. We need CIN to lose out. If they go 1-1 we can't jump them.

[rmcjacket23]

We can still get in but need help.

We have to beat the Browns. And then if either KC beats San Diego OR Denver or Pitt beat Cinci we would make the playoffs.

I still like our chances.

I believe we need both.

 

If Cincy only loses one more game, than they'd still only have five losses, which is better than us no matter what we do.

 

We are in with a win over Cleveland + a KC win OR a win over Cleveland + Cincy losing each of their next two games.

[JoeyFlex5]

name one qb in NFL history that could play well with an O-line that kept failing and receivers that don't get open

even worse than not getting open, dropping countless passes.

[ravensdfan]

I'm being forced to defend Flacco way more than I would prefer to after the trash he put on the field today.

That's because all the trolls are out. The ones we've not seen all season while he was putting up the stats, playing well, and having his best season yet.

Today was doo doo and I'll not defend him much for that other than to say the rest of the offense was doo doo as well. It got to him though, he was flustered by their failure. Something you don't see too often.

It's the ones who must not have watched any other Ravens' games coming in acting like today is how he's played all season.

[Alaska Alaska!]

name one qb in NFL history that could play well with an O-line that kept failing and receivers that don't get open

Russell Wilson.  Other than him, I got nothing

[omar586]

so we need the bungels to implode the next 2 games or the bolts lose to KC and win vs the browns, meh, we never make it easy do we?

[ravensdfan]

Think we might be getting Hoyer for our game.