Timmy Jernigan

[ravensnick]

KLM and Urban have not proven nothing yet. Our defensive backfield was deep at one time too.

Our Defensive backfield was viewed as talented but very thin going into the season. The d-line is talented and very deep.

[rmcjacket23]

If you really want to cut Ngata, you'd have to look at the dead money that would be there. I'm not sure if it would be worth it. 

No, you don't look at the dead money. Its a sunk cost... it should have absolutely no impact on decision making.

[Moderator 3]

No, you don't look at the dead money. Its a sunk cost... it should have absolutely no impact on decision making.

Not sure about that. A least you'd have a body for the sunk costs. If you cut him, you still have to pay someone else. Consideration should be: is player X plus dead money a better situation that keeping Ngata.

[PurpleCity5]

No, you don't look at the dead money. Its a sunk cost... it should have absolutely no impact on decision making.

I know what you mean but here's the thing: Would you rather not have Haloti Ngata and still struggle with his cap hit, or would you rather keep him and deal with his cap hit anyways. Keep in mind that he's headed towards the final year of his contract. 

[rmcjacket23]

Not sure about that. A least you'd have a body for the sunk costs. If you cut him, you still have to pay someone else. Consideration should be: is player X plus dead money a better situation that keeping Ngata.

I'll put it this way... if ANY organization looks at things like that, they should fire their entire staff (and I'm usually all for not firing people). You are taught from day 1 in simple Macroeconomics 101 that fixed costs have no bearing on future decision making... its called the fixed cost fallacy.

 

The dead money is dead money because the player costs that much regardless of production, output, or even whether he's alive on the planet. Haloti Ngata will cost the Ravens a MINIMUM of $7.5M in cap space next season, regardless of who he plays for. There is no decision the franchise can make that will change that. If he dies, he costs $7.5M against the cap. If he becomes a serial killer and is imprisoned for life, he costs $7.5M against the cap (ask the Patriots... this isn't even a joke).

 

Thus, your decision is generally a simple cost/benefit of analysis of the amount of cap savings that you can actually obtain by releasing him. In this case, its $8.5M (Ngata's base salary for 2015). If the Ravens feel he is worth $8.5M for one season, then they can retain him. If they think he's worth less or would like to keep him around longer than that, then they can extend him. If they think he's not worth that, and they feel that they can replace him cheaper with somebody else, then you release him.

 

Essentially, in your statement, you already acknowledged that my point is true...

 

You said it should be player X + dead money weighed against keeping Ngata. Well, using that scenario, we know that the dead money = $7.5M, and the cost of keeping Ngata (without an extension) is $16M. So, that means that if Player X can match his production for less than $8.5M (the last variable in that equation that balances the equation), then its beneficial to release him and go with somebody else (or extend him, as we've discussed).

 

So, again, $8.5M is the magic number.

[rmcjacket23]

I know what you mean but here's the thing: Would you rather not have Haloti Ngata and still struggle with his cap hit, or would you rather keep him and deal with his cap hit anyways. Keep in mind that he's headed towards the final year of his contract. 

Neither, which is the option the franchise may very well choose.

 

But again, the $7.5M is the cap hit regardless of whether he plays for us, somebody else, or nobody at all. That cap hit is 100% locked in no matter what decision the franchise makes.

 

Without an extension (or him accepting an outright pay cut... highly unlikely), there are two scenarios...

 

1. He plays for us, costs $16M against the cap.

2. He gets cut, costs $7.5M against the cap.

 

Thus, your decision is if his value exceeds or is greater than the difference of those two figures, or $8.5M.

[Underdogsontop!]

Timmy was a beast this past Sunday! Most of the time I found myself watching him push the jags center back, it was exciting to see! Reminds me of suh or sapp!

[Moderator 3]

 

Thus, your decision is if his value exceeds or is greater than the difference of those two figures, or $8.5M.

$8.5 million less the cost of his replacement.

[rmcjacket23]

$8.5 million less the cost of his replacement.

Correct, though I can't envision a scenario where a replacement player costs anything close to $8.5M for one season.

[BSHU_Miami]

I think we can get another run stuffing DT, next year and a major discount. Jerningan needs to play, he's ready. If Ngata doesn't resign to lower the cap number, let him loose draft a run stuffer to back up Willams, and use that money for some secondary help, or some WR/TE (Vernon Davis) help

[K-Dog]

Can we PLEASE start calling him Timmy "The Snowman" Jernigan? Then every time he gets a sack the crowd can imitate making a snow angel by waving their arms above their heads and screaming "SNOOOOOOOW!!!!!!" lol

I just think it has a ring to it

I am on board.

[usmccharles]

I find the idea of cutting Ngata hilarious because TJs performance on sunday.  I get it, he looks like a beast, i also get that he is a rookie and there is still a lot of variables that come into play.  Depth is never a bad thing, especially when we can bring TJ with fress legs and give Ngata a break.  Also consider, TJ played against one of, if not the worst line in the NFL.  He needs more time to develope and see what he really has.  Do not over react to a good game, just like you shouldnt over react to a bad game. 

[Alaska Alaska!]

I find the idea of cutting Ngata hilarious because TJs performance on sunday.  I get it, he looks like a beast, i also get that he is a rookie and there is still a lot of variables that come into play.  Depth is never a bad thing, especially when we can bring TJ with fress legs and give Ngata a break.  Also consider, TJ played against one of, if not the worst line in the NFL.  He needs more time to develope and see what he really has.  Do not over react to a good game, just like you shouldnt over react to a bad game. 

Don't worry.  Ozzie and Co know a lot better than us fans.  i only expect them to cut Ngata strictly if they can't resolve cap room issues.

[Tiz]

Ngata will be signed again for 2015 and 2016 and retire a Raven.... I don't know about Canty though... With Brent Urban, KLM, Jernigan, etc... I think we can afford to let Canty go.

Most likely the scenario. Ngata has shown an ability to play anywhere on the line so not sure why some ignore the possibility of williams, Jernigan and ngata in at the same time

[CalvinSmoke]

Why couldn't we Have Timmy and Ngata on the field at the same time again? Those 2 nd Brandon Williams sounds dominant

[Maryland]

 

Pauly S. ‏@thenflanalyst  1m1 minute ago

On a per snap basis, Timmy Jernigan has graded as the best 3-4 DE according to @PFF. By a LOT. Another feather in Ozzie's cap.

 

I think McPhee was one of PFF's top OLBs, or one of their post efficient pass rushers as a rookie.

 

There is a big difference between playing a few snaps per game as a rotational player and having a sustainable impact every snap you play as a starter. 

 

It's a good sign, however. Arthur Brown also graded well in limited snaps last year, per PFF...

[JoeyFlex5]

he is a bad bad man! favorite pick of this draft, if brent urban recovers and lives up to the hype he received during TC, then our d line will be even better in the near future, with our hybrid 3-4/4-3 consisting of combinations of suggs-jernigan-williams-mcphee/urban-doom/upshaw and all those guys being athletic enough to stun everywhere, strong enough to occupy blockers, and versatile enough to move anywhere in that rushing-front, we have a dangerous, and confusing serving of front 7, man if we had even a DECENT secondary, we would be fielding possibly a defense as good as our 2000 defense, lets hope we can keep this front seven together and build up this secondary, because if we can, our future looks very promising.

[beanfigger]

I think McPhee was one of PFF's top OLBs, or one of their post efficient pass rushers as a rookie.

 

There is a big difference between playing a few snaps per game as a rotational player and having a sustainable impact every snap you play as a starter. 

 

It's a good sign, however. Arthur Brown also graded well in limited snaps last year, per PFF...

 

And with McPhee it has translated into continued success. I think the same will be the case for Jernigan.

[izvoodoo]

And with McPhee it has translated into continued success. I think the same will be the case for Jernigan.

McPhee was good his rookie year and this year.  He's always been talented, but kind of got bit a bit by the injury bug.  I still think he's more of a 4-3 DE then anything else.

[KnowNoLimits]

Rotate Big Tim and Brandon and put Ngata at defensive end.

[ravensnick]

Rotate Big Tim and Brandon and put Ngata at defensive end.

Ngata has been playing DE. So does Jernigan. I think Jernigan is much better 3-4 DE than he would be a NT. 

[Static]

Jernigan has no buisness at NT at least not at this point in his career. His strength is using his smaller size to be fast without much drop off in strength. Also his heavy hands

[izvoodoo]

Jernigan has no buisness at NT at least not at this point in his career. His strength is using his smaller size to be fast without much drop off in strength. Also his heavy hands

He can play NT in passing downs by formation.  Jernigan reminds me of Corey Liuget

[beasy2487]

McPhee was good his rookie year and this year. He's always been talented, but kind of got bit a bit by the injury bug. I still think he's more of a 4-3 DE then anything else.

He's still a weak link on the edge against the run. To me he's an inside-outside rush specialist. He and Upshaw are perfect foils.

[Ravens1991]

Im not sure if Ngata has enough athletic ability to play 5 tech like he used to. He seems like a 3tech or 1tech now.  Jernigan was a monster 1 tech in college im sure he could play that in the  NFL, but I doubt he could play 0 tech. IMO we should take a 5 tech who can slide in on pass rushing downs in rounds 3-5 this upcoming draft.  

[JoeyFlex5]

Rotate Big Tim and Brandon and put Ngata at defensive end.

timmy isnt a NT, he can move around and win 1v1 matchups, and he can penetrate with his incredible quickness and excellent hand work, but he isnt going to occupy the interior whilst pushing the pocket, his ability is in his good combination of athleticism and strength without being too huge to squeeze through into the backfield, if he was tasked to win with brute force to shove multiple lineman into the backfield, then it would be a wasted body up front because he probably wouldnt be able to. 

 

his ability to penetrate so well needs to be used on every snap, with our exterior pass rush duo leading the league in sacks, placing him on either side causes a matchup nightmare, line him up over either tackle, and suddenly you have to pick your poison on one side, and have to double team a player on the other side. 

 

all the talk about jernigan being strictly a 4-3 fit was dumb to me, this dude can ball, and with the way we use our linebackers, i couldnt think of him being a better fit anywhere else

[codizzle]

Read somewhere through the thread about Timmy being by far the best DL from the draft

Easy there.. Aaron donald is a monster and has also played a little more than Jernigan

Give it some time before making those claims

[gabefergy]

Read somewhere through the thread about Timmy being by far the best DL from the draft

Easy there.. Aaron donald is a monster and has also played a little more than Jernigan

Give it some time before making those claims

Yeah, Jernigan has been really good but Donald is probably the rookie of the year at this point.

[JoeyFlex5]

Yeah, Jernigan has been really good but Donald is probably the rookie of the year at this point.

its a shame too, i dont see how he should win it over mosley and thats not even being a homer. when a rookie performs so well at such a mental position, it should automatically be a huge bonus over a position/role that consists mostly of winning your physical matchups.

[codizzle]

its a shame too, i dont see how he should win it over mosley and thats not even being a homer. when a rookie performs so well at such a mental position, it should automatically be a huge bonus over a position/role that consists mostly of winning your physical matchups.

Ehh donald has been crazy good since becoming a starter

Mosley has had a few ehh games