Vent thread: Dolphins(first half) Talk about the Game (second half)

[gabefergy]

Please enlighten me. What exactly did he do dififferent? I still saw the same zone coverage, off man, and four man rushes.

You didn't see Pees waving the magical Adjusments Wand like some of the other posters did?

[HoldingCall]

I'm gonna have to agree w/ FlackAttack.  That 3rd down pass to SSS was a much more clutch play than a QB sneak for one yard.  Don't get me wrong, the 4th and 1 call on your own 35 was a gutsy call by Harbs, but the execution of the pass/catch on 3rd down defines clutch. 

I respect your view but just to clarify "clutch." I believe it is defined as a play that sets the tone, changes the flow, or solidifies a result (win). Clutch is defined by its importance to the outcome and not defined by the method used to obtain it. Regardless, I'll stick to my choice but do respect yours as well.

 

It's nice to have a win!

[ravensdfan]

You didn't see Pees waving the magical Adjusments Wand like some of the other posters did?

Two days ago you said Pees lacked the personnel to be successful. There is no denying he pulled in tighter to the LOS, that he stayed aggressive at the end instead of going too early to prevent, as he has done in the past. But mostly, he actually made adjustments, something that has been lacking. If he came in with a game plan that proved successful, then all was well, if not, he failed to adjust.

 

I guess though he waved a magical wand and suddenly our garbage players are passable now right?

[gabefergy]

Two days ago you said Pees lacked the personnel to be successful. There is no denying he pulled in tighter to the LOS, that he stayed aggressive at the end instead of going too early to prevent, as he has done in the past. But mostly, he actually made adjustments, something that has been lacking. If he came in with a game plan that proved successful, then all was well, if not, he failed to adjust.

 

I guess though he waved a magical wand and suddenly our garbage players are passable now right?

Maybe the players just played better? Such a hard concept to grasp. I didn't see any more blitzes than he has been doing all season. The 4 man rush got home and was the difference in the game.

[allblackraven]

Two days ago you said Pees lacked the personnel to be successful. There is no denying he pulled in tighter to the LOS, that he stayed aggressive at the end instead of going too early to prevent, as he has done in the past. But mostly, he actually made adjustments, something that has been lacking. If he came in with a game plan that proved successful, then all was well, if not, he failed to adjust.

 

I guess though he waved a magical wand and suddenly our garbage players are passable now right?

We played a little tighter zone that's for sure but Miami didn't test the coverage as much as everybody thought they would. I can't tell which one was a cause and which one effect.

 

Fish O-line helped us a lot with running ineligible player(s) on two big passes they actually completed.

[The Raven]

Pees still drops Dumervil into coverage and he proceeded to give up a huge 1st down which is unforgiveable - on Pees' part. He's done it a number of times and Elvis gets victimized. It's not his skillset and takes the best rusher in the league away from hunting the QB. Not the 'right' type of exotic...

 

The defense, for whatever reason, goes soft at times and the Dolphins were gashing us with the run. Lamar Miller looked like Barry Sanders.

 

For all that, Pees and the defense made their adjustments and dominated.

 

If that's not the right type of exotic, then what is? You want him to be creative and you criticize him for it.

[ravensdfan]

The overwhelming majority of players who actually get "fired"  aren't very good and will struggle to find work in the league. If we cut a guy like Anthony Levine today... do you think there would be a long line for his services on the open market? Doubtful. There are literally players cut weekly in this league that never, ever play in this league again. I'd consider that "career ending".

Interesting. Perhaps this explains why no one knocked on Pees door to offer him a DC job after he was forced out of NE and he wound up taking a Linebacker coaching job, essentially a demotion, right?

[The Raven]

Two days ago you said Pees lacked the personnel to be successful. There is no denying he pulled in tighter to the LOS, that he stayed aggressive at the end instead of going too early to prevent, as he has done in the past. But mostly, he actually made adjustments, something that has been lacking. If he came in with a game plan that proved successful, then all was well, if not, he failed to adjust.

 

I guess though he waved a magical wand and suddenly our garbage players are passable now right?

 

What adjustments did he make, exactly?

[codizzle]

Not a vent or even a discussion but Yanda has been on fire this year...

Marshall Yanda, RG: +3.9

Breakdown: Another excellent display from Yanda, who now leads our guard rankings by a wide margin. Yanda has a green grade in every single game of 2014, and his +41.3 cumulative grade is nearly double that of Joel Bitonio (+22.6), our second-ranked guard.

Signature Stats: Yanda allowed a hit and a hurry in 35 snaps in pass protection, and earned a +2.8 grade as a run blocker. Yanda has yet to earn a negative run blocking grade this season.

Wow!!! Thanks for posting this.. That's JJ Watt level domination by PFF numbers

[rmcjacket23]

Interesting. Perhaps this explains why no one knocked on Pees door to offer him a DC job after he was forced out of NE and he wound up taking a Linebacker coaching job, essentially a demotion, right?

I never once used the word "coaches" in my post, so I literally have no idea what you are referencing here.

[codizzle]

Interesting. Perhaps this explains why no one knocked on Pees door to offer him a DC job after he was forced out of NE and he wound up taking a Linebacker coaching job, essentially a demotion, right?

Ehh lots of coaches step back into position coaching roles when leaving a coordinator or head coach spot..

Pees isn't the only one the ravens employ like that

[ravensdfan]

Maybe the players just played better? Such a hard concept to grasp. I didn't see any more blitzes than he has been doing all season. The 4 man rush got home and was the difference in the game.

Part of that I agree with completely. The pass rush seemed, for whatever reasons, to benefit by Ngata's absence while the run defense suffered a bit. I think we benefited more from the improvement in the pass rush though than the run drop off hurt us.

 

But the coverage in off man was tighter than we've seen all season, and they lined up much closer to the LOS after the half as well. Getting those slow down shots on the receivers. He also did not drop into prevent with a one score lead as we've seen him do in the past.

[ravensdfan]

I never once used the word "coaches" in my post, so I literally have no idea what you are referencing here.

 

The same rules would apply. If we fired a substandard coach tomorrow who would be knocking on their door? If Pees was such a gift to defense, he would not have taken a job as a Linebacker's coach in Baltimore - and it wouldn't have been his only offer.

[Inqui]

Wow!!! Thanks for posting this.. That's JJ Watt level domination by PFF numbers

Any idea what Justin James is doing in terms of PFF numbers? Just for comparison.

[ravensdfan]

What adjustments did he make, exactly?

Zone coverage was much tighter than we've played before for one. We did not drop into prevent with a one score lead - as we've done before, we remained aggressive.

[codizzle]

Any idea what Justin James is doing in terms of PFF numbers? Just for comparison.

Don't know his latest numbers but it's even more of a gap than yanda to bitonio I believe

[The Raven]

Part of that I agree with completely. The pass rush seemed, for whatever reasons, to benefit by Ngata's absence while the run defense suffered a bit. I think we benefited more from the improvement in the pass rush though than the run drop off hurt us.

 

But the coverage in off man was tighter than we've seen all season, and they lined up much closer to the LOS after the half as well. Getting those slow down shots on the receivers. He also did not drop into prevent with a one score lead as we've seen him do in the past.

 

I haven't seen a prevent defense. I've seen a zone defense without a pass rush. Only difference between this game and bad games is the pass rush. We got six sacks, and the defense looked better, but you're trying to say it was the coverage that changed.

[rmcjacket23]

Two days ago you said Pees lacked the personnel to be successful. There is no denying he pulled in tighter to the LOS, that he stayed aggressive at the end instead of going too early to prevent, as he has done in the past. But mostly, he actually made adjustments, something that has been lacking. If he came in with a game plan that proved successful, then all was well, if not, he failed to adjust.

 

I guess though he waved a magical wand and suddenly our garbage players are passable now right?

1. He played closer to the LOS because he's playing one of the only teams on the planet that literally refuses to throw deep, no matter what the strengths or weaknesses of the opposition is. The problem is... fans have been advocating he play closer to the LOS against teams that CAN go deep, and they do go deep, and we give up big plays because of it.

 

2. Everything you are saying is precisely why you should literally be praising him. But instead, you choose to not praise him and make comments like "he's just doing what he's supposed to do". That, ladies and gentleman, is hypocrisy at its finest. Bury the guy when he does a poor job, and right off him doing a great job by saying "well he's just doing his job".

 

Using that logic, I can't justify praising any single player ever again. I can't praise Dumervil, because he's paid to sack the QB, so he just did his job. I can't praise Flacco, because he's paid to complete passes at will and lead us on long drives.

[The Raven]

1. He played closer to the LOS because he's playing one of the only teams on the planet that literally refuses to throw deep, no matter what the strengths or weaknesses of the opposition is. The problem is... fans have been advocating he play closer to the LOS against teams that CAN go deep, and they do go deep, and we give up big plays because of it.

 

2. Everything you are saying is precisely why you should literally be praising him. But instead, you choose to not praise him and make comments like "he's just doing what he's supposed to do". That, ladies and gentleman, is hypocrisy at its finest. Bury the guy when he does a poor job, and right off him doing a great job by saying "well he's just doing his job".

 

Using that logic, I can't justify praising any single player ever again. I can't praise Dumervil, because he's paid to sack the QB, so he just did his job. I can't praise Flacco, because he's paid to complete passes at will and lead us on long drives.

 

I like the way you think sometimes

[codizzle]

Zone coverage was much tighter than we've played before for one. We did not drop into prevent with a one score lead - as we've done before, we remained aggressive.

Didn't catch whole game so I'm not trying to jump in and explain what we did but I would say our defense could play like because we weren't worried about getting beat deep

That isn't Miami's game. We were able to keep the defense tight and use front seven which helped us dominate after a rough start

Any team that can't stretch out our D is gonna have a hard hard time moving consistently or even moving at all

[Inqui]

Don't know his latest numbers but it's even more of a gap than yanda to bitonio I believe

You mean between him and the next DL down? I don't have any problems believing that.

 

How do his numbers compare to Yanda's though? Similar totals?

[rmcjacket23]

The same rules would apply. If we fired a substandard coach tomorrow who would be knocking on their door? If Pees was such a gift to defense, he would not have taken a job as a Linebacker's coach in Baltimore - and it wouldn't have been his only offer.

No, that's applicable to literally every coach on the planet for the most part. Unless you're an extremely high profile coach with a great track record, you aren't likely to be fired from one position to make a lateral move to an identical position.

 

HCs that get fired tend to become coordinators. Coordinators that get fired tend to become assistants in specific areas. Assistants in specific areas that get fired tend to not find employment in the NFL much longer.

 

If Pees got fired as DC, he would be hired by another NFL team as a positional coach in a matter of weeks.

[The Raven]

No, that's applicable to literally every coach on the planet for the most part. Unless you're an extremely high profile coach with a great track record, you aren't likely to be fired from one position to make a lateral move to an identical position.

 

HCs that get fired tend to become coordinators. Coordinators that get fired tend to become assistants in specific areas. Assistants in specific areas that get fired tend to not find employment in the NFL much longer.

 

If Pees got fired as DC, he would be hired by another NFL team as a positional coach in a matter of weeks.

 

I thought everyone knew this, but I guess the obvious had to be explained.

[codizzle]

You mean between him and the next DL down? I don't have any problems believing that.

How do his numbers compare to Yanda's though? Similar totals?

Yea was meaning him to next DL..

I think Watt is on pace to end up around +95 or so for the season.. That's the numbers I can find

I don't have a PFF sub

[ravensdfan]

1. He played closer to the LOS because he's playing one of the only teams on the planet that literally refuses to throw deep, no matter what the strengths or weaknesses of the opposition is. The problem is... fans have been advocating he play closer to the LOS against teams that CAN go deep, and they do go deep, and we give up big plays because of it.

 

2. Everything you are saying is precisely why you should literally be praising him. But instead, you choose to not praise him and make comments like "he's just doing what he's supposed to do". That, ladies and gentleman, is hypocrisy at its finest. Bury the guy when he does a poor job, and right off him doing a great job by saying "well he's just doing his job".

 

Using that logic, I can't justify praising any single player ever again. I can't praise Dumervil, because he's paid to sack the QB, so he just did his job. I can't praise Flacco, because he's paid to complete passes at will and lead us on long drives.

Dude, I was the first one to come in here and praise him. You can go check page one. That's right - before you, gabefergy, mcjacket - before the campaign to try to make this one game out like it is something he's been doing all season - because it isn't. One game out of the entire season does not make him golden.

 

Zone coverage was tighter than it's ever been. We pulled the CBs in closer to the LOS than before. You can make all the excuses you like but these are things we should have been trying when we were a massive fail and that you just days ago said were impossible with our personnel.

[ravensdfan]

Didn't catch whole game so I'm not trying to jump in and explain what we did but I would say our defense could play like because we weren't worried about getting beat deep

That isn't Miami's game. We were able to keep the defense tight and use front seven which helped us dominate after a rough start

Any team that can't stretch out our D is gonna have a hard hard time moving consistently or even moving at all

I understand what you're saying - but these are things that we should have been trying when we were failing. They might have failed - understood. But insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

And these are not things he began doing from the word go - they were adjustments made later in the game - something else we've not seen from Pees much this season. In game adjustments.

[rmcjacket23]

Dude, I was the first one to come in here and praise him. You can go check page one. That's right - before you, gabefergy, mcjacket - before the campaign to try to make this one game out like it is something he's been doing all season - because it isn't. One game out of the entire season does not make him golden.

 

Zone coverage was tighter than it's ever been. We pulled the CBs in closer to the LOS than before. You can make all the excuses you like but these are things we should have been trying when we were a massive fail and that you just days ago said were impossible with our personnel.

I suppose we could have tried them, but I'm guessing Pees reads these blogs and couldn't stand the thought of being simultaneously bashed for having his secondary play too close AND too far away from the LOS at literally the same time.

 

If you think that's impossible, you would be correct, yet it is possible in the world of internet forums.

 

In the end, as it has been since the beginning of time and for the rest of time, its mostly about the personnel. A coach's perception is about 90% based on the production/output/talent of the people he coaches. Its taken over a decade for people to realize that, no, Marvin Lewis was not some special DC. In fact, I'd argue he's no better than an average DC.

 

But he coached one of the most talented group of defensive players most of us will ever seen, and thus, he's awesome.

[gabefergy]

Part of that I agree with completely. The pass rush seemed, for whatever reasons, to benefit by Ngata's absence while the run defense suffered a bit. I think we benefited more from the improvement in the pass rush though than the run drop off hurt us.

 

But the coverage in off man was tighter than we've seen all season, and they lined up much closer to the LOS after the half as well. Getting those slow down shots on the receivers. He also did not drop into prevent with a one score lead as we've seen him do in the past.

I haven't seen the prevent defense at all except for when sitting on 2+ score leads late in the game. The coverage was really the same throughout the entire game. A mixture of man and zone. The CBs were rarely if ever jamming WRs at the LOS. A lot of times in man you will see one CB lined up closer to the LOS with the other CB pretty far off, but that was consistent for the whole game. He tended to call man more frequently on 3rd down while playing zone earlier, but the biggest difference was just the front 4 dominating the Miami OL. I think I counted 7 blitzes the entire day and most of the sacks came on 4 man rushes.

[gabefergy]

I understand what you're saying - but these are things that we should have been trying when we were failing. They might have failed - understood. But insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

And these are not things he began doing from the word go - they were adjustments made later in the game - something else we've not seen from Pees much this season. In game adjustments.

I'm sorry, but this just simply is not true. There may be minor tweaks here and there, but that's nothing new in this game. I honestly think you are just saying things here without any basis to back it up.

[ravensdfan]

I'm sorry, but this just simply is not true. There may be minor tweaks here and there, but that's nothing new in this game. I honestly think you are just saying things here without any basis to back it up.

What? Seriously?

 

Are you saying that in game adjustments are not made? That isn't part of the game? Or did I misunderstand what you were saying.