Vent thread: Dolphins(first half) Talk about the Game (second half)

[beanfigger]

#1

3rd and 7 on 2nd qtr at endzone. gets pressure, decides to throw to steve smith. heavily underthrows and goes onto a r.j.standford. miami doesnt capitalize on INT.

#2

1st and 10 on 2nd qtr. he throws to wide open steve on midfield. overthrows heavily, steve jumps as high as he could, gets tipped and safety #20 gets the hand on the ball, drops.

#3 and #4! (at one play, amazing skill right there and awareness...drool..*)

2nd and 10 on 3rd qtr. throws on one on one covered aiken. grimes gets a hand on the ball, tips off and then goes to another corner delmas, also tips and drops. commentator states "wow that was dangerous, that was almost picked off twice. one by grimes, second by delmas"

there you go!

Everyone agrees the first was a poor play.

On the second play, Flacco had his arm hit while he threw it and it still made it to Steve's hands. You mention it was "tipped", but you didn't mention it was by his own receiver, and then your definition of "drop" by the DB is rather loose afterwards. Steve had a better chance at catching it than anyone else on that play. That's not Joe throwing it to the Dolphins hands.

The one other play was a good play by a DB breaking up a pass. Let's not act like Joe somehow made two terrible plays at once because one guy, who is an amazing player, broke up a pass and it was nearly picked off by someone else.

26-33 (76%). Over 8yds/attempt, so not a dink and dunk game for that high percentage, either. There you go.

[stampedehero]

Not much to vent about for our game, given how we responded to a slow start.

The Cleveland game, on the other hand...

I thought our losses to Cincy and SD were devasting but watching Luck survive the knee to the head step up fake throw and pass to Tillton was amazing.  Then Hoyer watches the ball spiral out of Gordans fingertips was an incredible schock  with the epicenter in Cleveland then resounding through Northern Ohio.     That Cincy-Cleveland game will set off sparrrrrrks.  Last week I rooted for Pittsburgh (      ), this week for the Browns (  )  Go Ravens Set off an offensive explosion on The Jags

[callahan09]

During this game Joe Flacco was working with 3 undrafted players (Kamar Aiken, Marlon Brown, and Philip Supernaw), a 35-year old Steve Smith whose franchise team paid him millions of dollars NOT to play for this year, a 32-year old Owen Daniels who was sidelined often and ineffective last year, and without much from an injured Torrey Smith...

 

Flacco was 10/11 for 124 yards and a touchdown targeting 3 different undrafted players in this game.  That's almost perfect.

 

I'm completely serious when I say that I believe if Tom Brady did that, the media would have been talking about it all day yesterday, maybe even all week leading up to the next game.  How he can work with anybody and get the best of out nobodies and has-beens.

 

Haven't heard much about how Flacco has stepped up and performed at a very high level this season with this kind of supporting cast.  Good job by EVERYONE, the cast-offs, the has-beens, and the never-was's, for stepping up and playing great football when it matters most.  Proud of those guys!  They really helped this team when we needed them most.

[callahan09]

Stil not hearing the praise of Dean Pees the way I should be. The fans owe him that...

All due respect to Dean Pees, his unit got the job done on Sunday, but in all seriousness, this was more a story of the ineptitude of Joe Philbin, Bill Lazor, and Ryan Tannehill.  Tannehill can't throw deep.  He has one of the best deep ball receivers in the game in Mike Wallace, and they can't utilize him.  Tannehill hasn't got the arm strength, the timing, or the accuracy to play the deep game.  Our defense's biggest weakness, by far, is the deep passing game.  Clearly Philbin & Lazor had no trust in Tannehill's ability to throw it deep, so they didn't even try to exploit our biggest weakness.  That's a GLARING flaw in their offense.  

 

If the deep passing game is so suspect in their system and with their QB (especially with such a skilled deep route receiver) that they don't even TRY to exploit a team's biggest weakness in being the deep passing game, you've got major problems.  It becomes pretty obvious that a team can just sit on the short stuff and it becomes much easier to play effective defense.  I don't know how that team can be so one-dimensional on offense and actually have any success, to be honest with you.  

 

All they had to do was test this atrocious secondary and they might have had success, but they are either too inept to realize what our defense's weakness was (and how could that be possible for professional NFL coaches not to ascertain from our game film lately?), or they don't have a quarterback that can exploit that weakness, and that's a pretty glaring problem and a huge indictment of Tannehill as a quarterback.  That's my thinking on the matter.

 

Tannehill has the following stat line on passes thrown 20+ yards this season:

 

6/33, 191 Yards, 1 TD, 2 INT -> 36.0 QB Rating

 

Just as a comparison to our QB, who is considered one of the better deep passers in this league, here are Flacco's stats on passes thrown 20+ yards this season:

 

15/43, 552 Yards, 9 TD, 2 INT -> 103.4 QB Rating

 

I thought this quote from the Miami Dolphins blog on ESPN was very telling:

 

 

Quarterback Ryan Tannehill brought up an interesting point after the game: He said Baltimore was "sinking underneath the deeper throws that would be first or second in my progression." This means the Ravens brought defenders up against the pass and essentially dared Miami to throw deep, which didn't happen. The team has been reluctant to throw deep because that is a major weakness in Tannehill's game. Miami’s longest completion Sunday was 27 yards, and the offense is too limited without at least a threat of the big play. Smart opponents are aware of this, and it led to the Ravens holding the Dolphins to 13 points.

 

It's easy to make the decision to dare them to go deep if you're Dean Pees, because his particular defense's biggest weakness BY FAR is the deep passing game, so why would you devote any of your resources to protecting that aspect of the game when you're playing a team inept at deep passing and your own team is inept at stopping it?  You just plain *don't worry about it* and dare them to beat you that way, because you have to know that if they're going to beat you, it's going to have to be that way, and if they CAN, then you probably CAN'T stop them from doing it anyway, so just protect against the aspects of their game that they do well, rather than what they do poorly and what you protect against poorly.

 

It was smart of Pees, but not surprising, it was just obvious to be honest.  Any other strategy would have been so stupidly inept that I truly believe Pees would have been fired Monday morning, and I would find it hard to believe any NFL coach could reach that job and be that inept at it.

[BSHU_Miami]

#1

3rd and 7 on 2nd qtr at endzone. gets pressure, decides to throw to steve smith. heavily underthrows and goes onto a r.j.standford. miami doesnt capitalize on INT.

#2

1st and 10 on 2nd qtr. he throws to wide open steve on midfield. overthrows heavily, steve jumps as high as he could, gets tipped and safety #20 gets the hand on the ball, drops.

#3 and #4! (at one play, amazing skill right there and awareness...drool..*)

2nd and 10 on 3rd qtr. throws on one on one covered aiken. grimes gets a hand on the ball, tips off and then goes to another corner delmas, also tips and drops. commentator states "wow that was dangerous, that was almost picked off twice. one by grimes, second by delmas"

there you go!

i mean they are/were the number 2 ranked defense.....

[callahan09]

On the fourth down decision, I looked it up, and the only times this season that teams have gone for it on 4th down within their own 34 yard line with more time left in the game... just two times:

 

Colts @ Texans, trailing by 13, hail mary attempt by Texans to end the first half.

Bears @ Packers, with 11:54 left in the 3rd quarter, Bears trailing by 42 points.

 

Basically, there are no similar plays to our 4th down decision this season.  A hail mary to end a half is not surprising, and going for it on fourth down at the beginning of the 3rd quarter is also not surprising when you're already losing by FORTY TWO points!

[Ravenseconbeast]

i mean they are/were the number 2 ranked defense.....

Their secondary situation is depleted as much as we are. They 'had' Cortland Finnegan, Brent Grimes, and healthy delmas.

Just like we 'had' jimmy and Webb and jackson. But that fell down and we were left with levine,frank,Webb,and etc.

[GrimCoconut]

During this game Joe Flacco was working with 3 undrafted players (Kamar Aiken, Marlon Brown, and Philip Supernaw), a 35-year old Steve Smith whose franchise team paid him millions of dollars NOT to play for this year, a 32-year old Owen Daniels who was sidelined often and ineffective last year, and without much from an injured Torrey Smith...

Flacco was 10/11 for 124 yards and a touchdown targeting 3 different undrafted players in this game. That's almost perfect.

I'm completely serious when I say that I believe if Tom Brady did that, the media would have been talking about it all day yesterday, maybe even all week leading up to the next game. How he can work with anybody and get the best of out nobodies and has-beens.

Haven't heard much about how Flacco has stepped up and performed at a very high level this season with this kind of supporting cast. Good job by EVERYONE, the cast-offs, the has-beens, and the never-was's, for stepping up and playing great football when it matters most. Proud of those guys! They really helped this team when we needed them most.

I said the same thing. Really, Flacco is playing awesome with what he's got to work with on offense. Part of it's coordinating and OL, but he's making the throws. It's also nice to see his targets actually catch the ball, too.

[DomMcRaven]

During this game Joe Flacco was working with 3 undrafted players (Kamar Aiken, Marlon Brown, and Philip Supernaw), a 35-year old Steve Smith whose franchise team paid him millions of dollars NOT to play for this year, a 32-year old Owen Daniels who was sidelined often and ineffective last year, and without much from an injured Torrey Smith...

 

Flacco was 10/11 for 124 yards and a touchdown targeting 3 different undrafted players in this game.  That's almost perfect.

 

I'm completely serious when I say that I believe if Tom Brady did that, the media would have been talking about it all day yesterday, maybe even all week leading up to the next game.  How he can work with anybody and get the best of out nobodies and has-beens.

 

Haven't heard much about how Flacco has stepped up and performed at a very high level this season with this kind of supporting cast.  Good job by EVERYONE, the cast-offs, the has-beens, and the never-was's, for stepping up and playing great football when it matters most.  Proud of those guys!  They really helped this team when we needed them most.

Comparing to last year, it is SUCH a breath of fresh air and pleasure to watch our offense flourish especially in the past few weeks. I give credit to our FO, coaches, and players. Hopefully we can keep this up.

[beanfigger]

During this game Joe Flacco was working with 3 undrafted players (Kamar Aiken, Marlon Brown, and Philip Supernaw), a 35-year old Steve Smith whose franchise team paid him millions of dollars NOT to play for this year, a 32-year old Owen Daniels who was sidelined often and ineffective last year, and without much from an injured Torrey Smith...

Flacco was 10/11 for 124 yards and a touchdown targeting 3 different undrafted players in this game. That's almost perfect.

I'm completely serious when I say that I believe if Tom Brady did that, the media would have been talking about it all day yesterday, maybe even all week leading up to the next game. How he can work with anybody and get the best of out nobodies and has-beens.

Haven't heard much about how Flacco has stepped up and performed at a very high level this season with this kind of supporting cast. Good job by EVERYONE, the cast-offs, the has-beens, and the never-was's, for stepping up and playing great football when it matters most. Proud of those guys! They really helped this team when we needed them most.

A lot of folks have been clamoring for big name targets, and of course that would be nice, but Flacco has proven time and again that this isn't necessary for success as long as we have an offensive line worth their salt.

[gabefergy]

 

 

I thought this quote from the Miami Dolphins blog on ESPN was very telling:

 

It's easy to make the decision to dare them to go deep if you're Dean Pees, because his particular defense's biggest weakness BY FAR is the deep passing game, so why would you devote any of your resources to protecting that aspect of the game when you're playing a team inept at deep passing and your own team is inept at stopping it?  You just plain *don't worry about it* and dare them to beat you that way, because you have to know that if they're going to beat you, it's going to have to be that way, and if they CAN, then you probably CAN'T stop them from doing it anyway, so just protect against the aspects of their game that they do well, rather than what they do poorly and what you protect against poorly.

 

It was smart of Pees, but not surprising, it was just obvious to be honest.  Any other strategy would have been so stupidly inept that I truly believe Pees would have been fired Monday morning, and I would find it hard to believe any NFL coach could reach that job and be that inept at it.

I think the fact that the front 4 were getting to Tannehill so quickly also played a major role. Even if he wanted to go deep he wasn't getting the time, and the Ravens have done a good job at taking away the short stuff all season. There is a really interesting "Insider" article by FBO talking about how terrible the Ravens are at allowing deep completions, but they are actually the best in the NFL at defending passes less than 15 yards.

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11983935/baltimore-ravens-biggest-coverage-weakness-playoff-contenders-nfl

 

 The Ravens have the best DVOA rating in the league against short passes (up to 15 yards through the air). They have the worst DVOA rating in the league against deep passes (16-plus yards through the air). They've allowed a league-high 60 percent completion rate on deep passes, and the average gain of 17.3 yards per pass is second only to the New York Jets at 18.3 yards.

It's been particularly horrific since cornerback Jimmy Smith went down with an injury in late October. Since Week 8, the Ravens are allowing a mind-blowing 77 percent completion rate on deep passes, with 22.7 yards per pass.

[Militant X 1]

Yea there's a balance.. That long drive will tire a defense out.. That's why getting a turnover and capitalizing on them are crucial..

That's also why when our offense is clicking our defense performs better as well

 

I absolutely agree with this 100%.

[beanfigger]

I think the fact that the front 4 were getting to Tannehill so quickly also played a major role. Even if he wanted to go deep he wasn't getting the time, and the Ravens have done a good job at taking away the short stuff all season. There is a really interesting "Insider" article by FBO talking about how terrible the Ravens are at allowing deep completions, but they are actually the best in the NFL at defending passes less than 15 yards.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11983935/baltimore-ravens-biggest-coverage-weakness-playoff-contenders-nfl

That stat is horrifying. Our pass rush needs to keep up the heat if we want to have any chance.

Good to know it is more than just opinion that we excell against short passes. A lot of credit to scheme and the fact that our LBs can cover and tackle.

[1/28/01]

"It's been particularly horrific since cornerback Jimmy Smith went down with an injury in late October. Since Week 8, the Ravens are allowing a mind-blowing 77 percent completion rate on deep passes, with 22.7 yards per pass."

Wow. That's horrible!

[allblackraven]

"It's been particularly horrific since cornerback Jimmy Smith went down with an injury in late October. Since Week 8, the Ravens are allowing a mind-blowing 77 percent completion rate on deep passes, with 22.7 yards per pass."

Wow. That's horrible!

Never mind that. Are you ready for week 15 picture is what I want to know?

[1/28/01]

Never mind that. Are you ready for week 15 picture is what I want to know?

Oh man, that thing was so done yesterday!

[codizzle]

"It's been particularly horrific since cornerback Jimmy Smith went down with an injury in late October. Since Week 8, the Ravens are allowing a mind-blowing 77 percent completion rate on deep passes, with 22.7 yards per pass."

Wow. That's horrible!

Shows just how good our front seven is

[frozen joe flacco fan]

I am so glad that Joe and Steve Sr. redeemed themselves in a big way today after the TD drop and INT in the end zone.

 

You mean you're glad they played lights out in the 2nd half to make up for Steve Smith's TD drop in the end zone. Joe didn't have to redeem himself for the INT. If Steve catches the TD pass, the INT doesn't happen, right? In fairness to Steve, I think he was being held by the defender but he needs to make that catch. 

[ravensnick]

You mean you're glad they played lights out in the 2nd half to make up for Steve Smith's TD drop in the end zone. Joe didn't have to redeem himself for the INT. If Steve catches the TD pass, the INT doesn't happen, right? In fairness to Steve, I think he was being held by the defender but he needs to make that catch. 

That was a terrible placed ball. Steve should have boxed out the defender but I have no idea what Joe was thinking

[beanfigger]

That was a terrible placed ball. Steve should have boxed out the defender but I have no idea what Joe was thinking

I think he was referring to the pass right before that. Drop by Steve in the endzone.

[beanfigger]

You mean you're glad they played lights out in the 2nd half to make up for Steve Smith's TD drop in the end zone. Joe didn't have to redeem himself for the INT. If Steve catches the TD pass, the INT doesn't happen, right? In fairness to Steve, I think he was being held by the defender but he needs to make that catch.

Steve needed that last drive to get back his confidence and catch fire. Joe needed that drive to regain confidence in Steve and catch fire.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Slow start totally expected after that late game lost at home, but the way we came-back to win this critical game was beyond critic. That's all that matters this late in the season. Good win.

 

Get another one in next game.

GO Ravens!

[frozen joe flacco fan]

I think he was referring to the pass right before that. Drop by Steve in the endzone.

Yes. I was referring to the dropped touchdown pass right before the bad decision by Joe. If Steve had

caught the perfectly thrown ball, the interception would not have occurred. Duh!

Steve needed that last drive to get back his confidence and catch fire. Joe needed that drive to regain confidence in Steve and catch fire.

I agree.

[ravensnick]

I think he was referring to the pass right before that. Drop by Steve in the endzone.

Oh I miss read that.

[JEEPercreepermd]

If anyone wants a good laugh, read through their game threads. I was reading some of them during the game. Wow.

Once we started winning it was because we were apparently holding on every play. Good stuff

[berad]

One of the things Dean Pees said the Ravens adjusted on was making changes that would stop the Dolphins from chipping our pass rushers:

 

 

 

When you have a great pass rush combination, especially on both sides when you have OLBs Terrell Suggs and Elvis Dumervil out there, what kind of problems does that really create for offenses? (Jamison Hensley) “They really can’t slide the protection necessarily to one guy, just because of the other guy. They have to decide which way they’re going to put the protection. And what Miami was doing, at least going into the game, was they would chip their way out, which means they’d put a back on one side and maybe a tight end on the other side, give the tackle a little bit of help and then get out. So, we had to do some things to kind of prevent them from chipping. That’s what they’re going to do. They’re going to try to let the back help or the tight end maybe help in an off position and chip the other guy on their way out, which changes their routes a little bit, but that’s the best way to protect. You can full-fly the protection. The other way you can do it is you can max protect and leave everybody in, around two guys or three guys out. In either case, that’s a good scenario for a defense.”

 

And does that mean when you have such a great pass rush like that, isn’t it even if you don’t get to the quarterback, if it’s just having the offense maybe adjust to things that they don’t want to do … Is that almost considered a win as well? Like, you know, using an extra guy for protection? (Jamison Hensley) “The only thing is, though, they have a good situation, too. If they’re using a couple extra guys to protect, we have to make sure we’re in a coverage, because now the play is going to last a little longer. So, you still have some coverage issues. You still have to be able to cover them a little longer now if they’re going to leave everybody in to protect. It’s just a chess match back and forth trying to get them to change a little bit and them trying to get us to change.”

[gabefergy]

Yes, Dean Pees made adjustments just like he does in every game this season. It's nothing new.

[beanfigger]

Good job Walrus. Keep it up.

[Inqui]

Good job Walrus. Keep it up.

Did Andy Reid get fired from KC or something? I knew Harbaugh couldn't go a year without making a buddy hire.

[Footman DCXLV]

That was a terrible placed ball. Steve should have boxed out the defender but I have no idea what Joe was thinking

 

Honestly, that was the same kind of 50/50 ball Joe throws all the time. He has a knack for making a "50/50" throw with better odds than that. Steve was in position, in front of his defender, and would have either caught the ball or at least been in position that it couldn't have been intercepted. But, it looked like he just misread it and found placed himself behind the defender. If he plays that better as a receiver, it's either caught or incomplete, and nobody things it was a bad decision by Joe.

And, as has already been pointed out, if Steve catches the perfect pass on the previous play, it's all a moot point. Not too much criticism because Steve Smith has done great things this year, but on two consecutive plays, he made mistakes that cost us. We were good enough to win that game anyway, so all that really matters is an extra INT on Joe's record. With 9 on the year, I still wouldn't be shocked if he stays in single digits for the year, with three games left.