Vent thread: Chargers

[Dewy101]

I actually see Pees disguise his defense a lot. I'm not sure what others see. I saw the front seven crowding the LOS making it very hard to read. Then I saw guys drop in coverage and sometimes they blitzed. I guess people just see off man coverage and assume it's vanilla.

He shows blitz but backs off a lot it's just a normal call that every defense runs. There's nothing special he does. I don't get why he doesn't use more stunts it worked on Sunday and suggs picked up a sack. Do you remember last season how bad Gradkoswki struggled with stunts, they had a 4th string center in I'm sure he could've got him a lot. Instead he has his corners line up in zone coverage and play even when man to man has been much more effective. The bend but don't break method doesn't work very well anymore. Just look at Pagano and Rex their defense are always in attack mode and they don't have much in the secondary. Our front seven is so much better. I understand he doesn't have much to work with but if the secondary is going to give up yards no matter what isn't it better to attack than to sit back and let Qbs tear us to shreds.

[BmoreBird22]

Respectfully, I have to totally disagree with this assessment, and can't see anywhere in the quoted post you could have found such an attitude.

 

Bird was mainly pointing out several posters whose opinion he admires because of their knowledge and experience.

 

That you are not among them has much more to do with your narrow-minded insistence that Pees is to blame for all of our problems, and your blanket dismissal of others' opinions that the problems may go beyond Pees. 

You've been flogging that same dead horse for months now, and refuse to even consider that what others have to say might have some merit.

 

It has absolutely nothing with being female.

You absolutely hit the nail on the head there and I truly appreciate it

[BmoreBird22]

He damn near tried every coverage possible to no avail and it's not like this is the first time Rivers has done well against us with much better weapons on the defensive side. Pees tried press blitzing, zone blizting, rolling coverages, and now that we're doing what said would happen (giving up big plays cause of 1 on 1s)people are mad about the points and yards going up.

At this point, I honestly don't think there's something he hasn't tried

[BmoreBird22]

He shows blitz but backs off a lot it's just a normal call that every defense runs. There's nothing special he does. I don't get why he doesn't use more stunts it worked on Sunday and suggs picked up a sack. Do you remember last season how bad Gradkoswki struggled with stunts, they had a 4th string center in I'm sure he could've got him a lot. Instead he has his corners line up in zone coverage and play even when man to man has been much more effective. The bend but don't break method doesn't work very well anymore. Just look at Pagano and Rex their defense are always in attack mode and they don't have much in the secondary. Our front seven is so much better. I understand he doesn't have much to work with but if the secondary is going to give up yards no matter what isn't it better to attack than to sit back and let Qbs tear us to shreds.

He actually used loops quite a few times, but they weren't working. The Ravens just don't have the personnel to effectively loop all the time. Also, he did play a good amount of man, which is no surprise when there's so many pieces moving in the secondary, minimizing the communication and chemistry issues with man over zone is an obvious choice.

[BmoreBird22]

Sorry but I can't agree. I've enjoyed several intelligent discussions with Ratedr, various mods, and even yourself. If I'm being honest, the people who discount your opinions merely because you're female are the minority. As much as I (and others) disagree with you, the vast majority of us respect your opinion, and we don't discount it based on gender. 

 

I am sorry you feel this way, though.

Wait, ratedr is a female?

[gabefergy]

Looking back at the game, the personnel deficiencies just become more apparent. Missed tackles, coverage lapses, and penalties really were the difference in the game.

 

The sack Dumervil had taken back because he was lined up offsides was killer. Would have put them at 3rd and 17-18. It probably would have been game over.

 

Contrary to popular belief Pees did blitz quite a bit, almost 40% of the time by my count. He also used man coverage quite a bit with mixed results. On the final drive he blitzed over 50% of the snaps.

 

In the first half the hated 4 man rush was far more effective than the blitz. SD realized early on they weren't going to beat the pressure with protection so they spread the Ravens defense out and dinked and dunked down the field.

 

I think there were 4 completions over 20 yards the whole game, and one was a screen pass that beat the blitz. Another was to Gates when Upshaw had him in man coverage. There was the 2nd TD to Allen where he torched Gorrer on a double move and the bomb to Floyd that also came off a blitz where he just ran right past Gorrer in quarters coverage.

 

Looking back that PI at the end of the game was super questionable as well and the TD to win it was a simple tunnel screen when the Ravens brought the house.

[GrimCoconut]

Also, playing man coverage doesn't necessarily make good defense. Zone coverage can be a very good defense as well.

The biggest problem with the secondary is you're asking Dean Pees to make a pizza with no dough and to use bread instead. It's not going to taste the same and probably won't be as good. The secondary is an ingredient in the defense and having stale ingredients isn't going to make an awesome pizza.

I still think Pees has done a good job with what he has. He essentially has a hand tied behind his back and that makes his job much more difficult. We're essentially asking him to drive a manual transmission without one hand. Even a broken hand would work, but this CB corps just isn't that good. There's a reason why Levine is playing CB and it's nut because he's great at it.

You can only scheme so much. There comes a point where scheme can't hide poor talent.

[redrum52]

Wait, ratedr is a female?

Yup. Most of this stuff is only noticed when you're not in mobile.

[beefjerky]

I ask because the stud receivers off the top of my head all went in the top 10, which Baltimore hasn't had since drafting Suggs 10th in 2003.

Well, leave out the 2014 draft, and forget about Keenan Allen, Corderelle Patterson, Emmanuel Sanders, Mike Wallace, Jordy Nelson, DeSean Jackson, Demaryius Thomas, and others, you've got a point. And if there was no such thing as draft day trades, either...

[jazz1988]

I was confused by having an ILB cover a TE.

 

Usually atleast in todays NFl you have to have inside linebacker that can cover especially a tight end. Both Mosley and Smith are three down linebackers because neither are one dimensional .

[Moderator 2]

That is silly. No one has a 'pervasive attitude' in this forum just b/c you are a female. It's your opinion that people debate the issues about, nothing else. That's just an excuse.

Admin1 is female and so am I along with a couple mods anyone with a problem please PM me Thanks! Forgive me for quoting you 'Beast, you made a great point that I agree 100 % with, that's why my non mod sign on is gender generic.

[ravensdfan]

Just offering up some interesting reading on Pees circa 2009:

 

http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=49186

 

Excerpt:

 

I am sorry that my first thread on this site has to be a negative one but Dean Pees is a horrible DC. When you have a rookie QB you pressure the heck out of him. When they did bring pressure the play usually was a negative one for the Jets. When they let him sit back there by only rushing 4 he chewed them up. Pees is a liability regardless of who else helps him develop the game plan because he can't make in game adjustments.

 

 

 

....from the other side:

 

Hard to "adapt" with more pressure when you've only got faith in 2 linebackers (Guyton, Thomas), I'd guess.

Guyton never came off the field, and Thomas only when the Pats sent in the 4-1-6 pass D with Burgess and TBC on the ends. You're taking a big chance blitzing those two at the end of the game when they've played nearly every down and are close to running on empty.

Also, when you're playing the 4-3, you're already rushing 4, unlike the 3-4 where you can disguise better where the blitzer is coming from. We'll see in the rematch whether they're far enough in their education along to bring a zone blitz or rush the DBs.

 

 

 

 

Interesting read. Apparently this 4 man rush, limited blitzing, vanilla play calling and lack of adjustments is a thing.

 

Being in the top on scoring defense being the main defense of him...also apparently a thing.

[Boltzfan88]

Thanks and congrats on the win. Rivers is a beast when he's protected, but we knew this. Best of luck to you too. Talk about a rough schedule. Sheesh...

 

 

Thanks man. And yea we face Tom Brady and Peyton Manning in back to back weeks and then play against the Niners and Chiefs to close out the season...lolz.

 

I'll take a 3-1 record the remaining way.

 

Hope yall do us a solid and beat Miami. Really don't want the Dolphins in the playoffs. Would rather the Chargers and Ravens get #5 and #6 spots.

[HoldingCall]

redrum52, on 02 Dec 2014 - 4:05 PM, said:

He damn near tried every coverage possible to no avail and it's not like this is the first time Rivers has done well against us with much better weapons on the defensive side. Pees tried press blitzing, zone blizting, rolling coverages, and now that we're doing what said would happen (giving up big plays cause of 1 on 1s)people are mad about the points and yards going up.

I'm a pees supporter but the thing that annoyed me was the distance Levine was instructed to play off the receiver even after it became obvious where Rivers will attack. This allowed Rivers to march down field and once in position he simply attacked the same area with deeper passes. There were no disruption of receivers coming off the line. However, I believe the high number of receivers put in by the chargers near the end may have had something to do with the choice of defensive play.

[Dewy101]

I think PFF said it best

"Breakdown: Rivers was intercepted on his first pass attempt of the game, but he was nearly perfect after that. The Ravens blitzed him 19 times, and he earned a PFF grade of +1.3 on those pass plays. On the 32 drop-backs when not blitzed, Rivers earned a +5.8 grade

Signature Stat: When Rivers was not pressured, he was 24-of-32 for 281 yards, two touchdowns and a +6.1 PFF grade."

Are people still making excuses for Pees?

[The Mom Gene]

I think PFF said it best

"Breakdown: Rivers was intercepted on his first pass attempt of the game, but he was nearly perfect after that. The Ravens blitzed him 19 times, and he earned a PFF grade of +1.3 on those pass plays. On the 32 drop-backs when not blitzed, Rivers earned a +5.8 grade

Signature Stat: When Rivers was not pressured, he was 24-of-32 for 281 yards, two touchdowns and a +6.1 PFF grade."

Are people still making excuses for Pees?

Yeah, cuz Pees is out there making those plays... and the facts remain...  watch the game on rewind... and watch closely... For some ridiculous reason people just cannot accept that Rivers carved us up...They adjusted... and we couldn't.  We had no more adjustments to make.  We just don't have the personnel.  And where we do???  I can tell you that I noticed Suggs was being held the entire second half....  Especially on that last drive, it was as blatant as it could be....  but yet, no flags... We watched it last night, and I rewinded it several times.  He was shocked.  We noticed a ton of reasons why we didn't perform on Sunday...  and few if any of those could be blamed on Dean Pees.

[The Mom Gene]

I'm a pees supporter but the thing that annoyed me was the distance Levine was instructed to play off the receiver even after it became obvious where Rivers will attack. This allowed Rivers to march down field and once in position he simply attacked the same area with deeper passes. There were no disruption of receivers coming off the line. However, I believe the high number of receivers put in by the chargers near the end may have had something to do with the choice of defensive play.

That's on the secondary's coach...  not Pees.  And watch "Wired"...  Courtney Upshaw was mic'd up.  Even in the first quarter Spags was all over the secondary guys to cover.

[rmcjacket23]

Admin1 is female and so am I along with a couple mods anyone with a problem please PM me Thanks! Forgive me for quoting you 'Beast, you made a great point that I agree 100 % with, that's why my non mod sign on is gender generic.

I wouldn't be too concerned about it.

 

When only a single person out of hundreds thinks there's some sort of a problem, the problem generally doesn't actually exist. Just a perception issue on that persons part, nothing more.

[The Mom Gene]

I wouldn't be too concerned about it.

 

When only a single person out of hundreds thinks there's some sort of a problem, the problem generally doesn't actually exist. Just a perception issue on that persons part, nothing more.

Thanks Jacket.  We're not as concerned as we are that the subject was even broached. 

To even discuss that is inappropriate at best.  There are quite a few of us on here.

[jazz1988]

He actually used loops quite a few times, but they weren't working. The Ravens just don't have the personnel to effectively loop all the time. Also, he did play a good amount of man, which is no surprise when there's so many pieces moving in the secondary, minimizing the communication and chemistry issues with man over zone is an obvious choice.

 

What is loops? 

[jazz1988]

I usually when I go to russellstreetreport.com I like to read what Ken McKusick aka Film Study has to say and for those that want to blame Pees or not blame Pees then you should read this because it's a good read.

 

http://russellstreetreport.com/2014/12/03/filmstudy/weak-secondary-penalties-doom-ravens/

[Puddinhead]

It looked to me Harb was calling the D late in the game, something he is fish out of water with. Harb's verbal description of that late SD TD was so far removed from reality it reduced his credibility. How can a CB play the ball (to catch it of course) when one arm is wrapped around the RX and CB is not even looking for the ball ? What, a one handed grab at the ball ? Nope, it was PI all the way. So for Harb to try and BS the fans won't fly here. Ellam clowns around a lot like a kid, he let a late game winning intercept go through his hands and he acts silly afterwards. Joe stops clock at 2:38 in 4th QTR (pass out of bounds), otherwise a sack would have gotten SD to the 2:00. Little things like Joe's apparent sometimes low-football IQ, Ellam's clowning, and CB's lost as to where the ball actually is are stunning weaknesses.

[52N19]

rewatched the game on rewind last night. torrey smith just plain dropped a TD pass. his other catches were bobbled balls. his TD catch wiht one hand could have been a two handed catch. he just doesn't seem to have sure hands.

 

Smith Sr dropped a beautiful sideline pass from flacco that hit him right in the hands. he alos dropped a TD pas that was a little difficult but a play other receivers make.

 

what i saw on the broadcast that i didn;t see at the game was the attempted fake field goal by the ravnes. daniels went outside but the chargers picked it up. i think the ravens new if they didn;t convert the last third down to cloe out the game they were going to lose the game. thye should have gone wiht the fake anyway. it doens;t matter if you lose by 4 or 1 point.

[callahan09]

Joe to ME was off the mark on the first drive but he is in no way shape or form to blame. The WR's didn't make his life any easier after Marlon went down. Steve Smith is hit or miss in games and we should've had a bigger lead before that last drive. He played really well on Sunday and it's disappointing his performance was wasted.

You're really doing to nit pick about Joe's first drive and call him "off the mark"?  On a drive on which he went 4/5 for 61 Yards and a TD.  That's almost a perfect passer rating.

[Florida Ravens Fan]

I usually when I go to russellstreetreport.com I like to read what Ken McKusick aka Film Study has to say and for those that want to blame Pees or not blame Pees then you should read this because it's a good read.

 

http://russellstreetreport.com/2014/12/03/filmstudy/weak-secondary-penalties-doom-ravens/

So basically what we already knew Elam sucks. Hill should of been on Gates the whole game. And our corners play way too far off and allow easy first down completions.

[rmcjacket23]

So basically what we already knew Elam sucks. Hill should of been on Gates the whole game. And our corners play way too far off and allow easy first down completions.

Right, but the article points out that with Miles playing the majority of the snaps at SS, the Ravens didn't want to leave him covering the middle of the field by himself, which is completely understandable to me.

 

Again, I think the idea of Hill covering Gates is overblown, because all of their receivers had a field day, and I think shutting down Gates would have just led to big games for those guys, and may have exposed the middle of the field and the deep passing attack even more.

[MTRavensFan]

So basically what we already knew Elam sucks. Hill should of been on Gates the whole game. And our corners play way too far off and allow easy first down completions.

and Miles had a decent game and deserves more playing time. Looks like he's our starter now.

[The Mom Gene]

I usually when I go to russellstreetreport.com I like to read what Ken McKusick aka Film Study has to say and for those that want to blame Pees or not blame Pees then you should read this because it's a good read.

 

http://russellstreetreport.com/2014/12/03/filmstudy/weak-secondary-penalties-doom-ravens/

Those guys are as bad as Mike Preston....  God I hate RSR.

[The Mom Gene]

So basically what we already knew Elam sucks. Hill should of been on Gates the whole game. And our corners play way too far off and allow easy first down completions.

And you are forgetting we are not calling Elam a Safety anymore...   He's played pretty well at nickel...  Just not as visable.

[rmw10]

Those guys are as bad as Mike Preston....  God I hate RSR.

 

McKusick is good.  Everyone else is bad.