Vent thread: Chargers

[BmoreBird22]

I didn't think that at all....

 

If folks would read the blog articles, it stated yesterday that they tried everything...  they used blitz packages, had LB's on receivers, rotated the secondary players to try and mix things up... 

 

When you have a QB like Philip Rivers and a secondary as knicked up as ours, you're gonna get torched.  I was surprised we held up as long as we did...  Rivers is a pass-happy QB...  He could have picked us apart all day long.

It's amazing just how much Pees has tried and how no one sees it. I see everyone describe his defense as so vanilla, but the amount of different looks and blitzes he uses is incredible. 

Rivers is an excellent quarterback who was having an MVP type season to begin the year. He was going through a rough patch for a little, but it was only a matter of time before he caught fire against this weak secondary.

[rmw10]

I'm not the biggest fan of his style of defense (my favorite coordinator out of Rex, Mattison, Pagano, and Pees was Pagano), but I'm not so ignorant that I will blame all the problems on him. 

 

I don't always like what he does, but I do understand how little he has to work with and I realize that he shouldn't get even close to as much crap as he does.

 

And quite honestly, if someone doesn't like him it's completely understandable. People like you who don't like him at least are able to pick out what he actually does and say what you don't like, whereas most people here just hate on him and have massive misconceptions about what he's doing, or a lack thereof. 

 

I wouldn't even say I don't like him, more that I could take him or leave him.  If he sticks around, I'm fine with that.  I think he mixes and disguises coverages a lot more than people realize.  My problems with him come in that I do think he gets a little too vanilla at times, and I think he often moves to prevent defense way too early.

 

He's making do with what he has right now.  There were still some times in the game where I didn't like what he was deploying, but there were other times where I really did.  Like you said, I'm not ignorant enough to not realize what little talent he's working with.  We've seen in the past that he can excel when he has talented players.  Even with the CB situation early in the season, we were doing pretty well on D.  Losing Jimmy is a huge loss and a lot of people don't realize how much that actually matters.

[BmoreBird22]

That last drive was all about the scared.

 

Everyone is wrong I know. I'm wrong, the other posters here are wrong, Dungy is wrong, Harrison is wrong and the weekend warriors here or high school glory day players are all right because they held a football in their hand. I know, I know.

 

Rushing four is rushing four and yes I know he doesn't just send them straight up all the time. Still isn't working is it? Nope. So at some point, what do you have to lose to be more aggressive? A big play? Giving it up anyway. Won't be any different if at least you're trying something.

 

NE's top scoring offense bailed out his bend but don't break defense. When they scored less than 30 pts they won less than 50% of the time.

 

If he's staying, better give the offense the love with the draft picks, FAs everything cuz we will have to put up 40 nearly every game.

Dungy and Harrison are trying to cover 32 teams, and they tried to cover 14 games before the Sunday night football game. You really think they're the best people to talk to? Honestly, I'll take guys like Gabe, rmc, rmw, and The Raven, posters with a long reputation for being on these boards and a few who have college football experience, over several posters on here. 

 

Actually, the blitz wasn't really working either. Rivers tore up the Ravens blitz in this game, and he's torn up the blitz all year. The few times it did get there, the Ravens committed inexcusable penalties, like offsides or hands to the face.

 

Do you even realize they were top ten all four years in PPG allowed while he was there and top five three times? The one time he wasn't top 5? When Matt Cassell was quarterbacking the offense. 

 

Yeah, the Ravens are going to have to score 40 per game to win with that top 7 defense in PPG allowed, despite having two UDFA's (one who is a converted safety) starting at corner. 

[BmoreBird22]

I wouldn't even say I don't like him, more that I could take him or leave him.  If he sticks around, I'm fine with that.  I think he mixes and disguises coverages a lot more than people realize.  My problems with him come in that I do think he gets a little too vanilla at times, and I think he often moves to prevent defense way too early.

 

He's making do with what he has right now.  There were still some times in the game where I didn't like what he was deploying, but there were other times where I really did.  Like you said, I'm not ignorant enough to not realize what little talent he's working with.  We've seen in the past that he can excel when he has talented players.  Even with the CB situation early in the season, we were doing pretty well on D.  Losing Jimmy is a huge loss and a lot of people don't realize how much that actually matters.

I also feel they're putting too much blame solely on Pees when a lot of the issues also go to the positional coaches. When your players aren't executing even man coverage, that needs to be addressed with your positional coach.

[BmoreBird22]

What does scoring defense matter when they give up a billion yards and blow the game in the 4th quarter? 

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but a team wins when they score more points than the other team, so scoring defense matters that way...

[The Raven]

I love the way Pees disguises coverages and things like that. He's an excellent coverage coordinator.

 

However, I hate his philosophy for the defensive line. Those boys want to attack, and he makes them read and react more.

[BmoreBird22]

Oh, apparently I was wrong when I said there were just two UDFA's starting in the secondary on Sunday (actually should have said three to begin with because of Hill). There were actually four. Jeromy Miles started. Well, I don't know that he technically "started", but he played 70 of 72 snaps at safety. 

[ravensdfan]

Dungy and Harrison are trying to cover 32 teams, and they tried to cover 14 games before the Sunday night football game. You really think they're the best people to talk to? Honestly, I'll take guys like Gabe, rmc, rmw, and The Raven, posters with a long reputation for being on these boards and a few who have college football experience, over several posters on here. 

 

Actually, the blitz wasn't really working either. Rivers tore up the Ravens blitz in this game, and he's torn up the blitz all year. The few times it did get there, the Ravens committed inexcusable penalties, like offsides or hands to the face.

 

Do you even realize they were top ten all four years in PPG allowed while he was there and top five three times? The one time he wasn't top 5? When Matt Cassell was quarterbacking the offense. 

 

Yeah, the Ravens are going to have to score 40 per game to win with that top 7 defense in PPG allowed, despite having two UDFA's (one who is a converted safety) starting at corner. 

There is this pervasive attitude within this forum lately that female means "doesn't understand football" although at times it is subtle.

 

Gee when Matt Cassell was QBing the offense was when he wasn't top 5 in scoring defense? I mean, isn't that what I said? The top scoring offense bailed out his entire defensive philosophy? That their ability to score at will allowed the defense to just hunt? I thought I said that.

 

Again, excuses excuses excuses. He's done nothing while here despite numerous personnel changes. I really wish Ozzie would stop picking up scrubs off the street to play football.

 

There is not one person here who is not aware our secondary is weak. But then again, you've seen Gorrer play. Not a star, but did he look as bad as he looks now, in Pees system?

 

Drafted Elam, scouting reports were glowing. Looks so bad out there.

 

Will Hill - high graded player when with the Giants, was released for other reasons. Looks bad out there though.(personally, don't think he's doing all that badly, but that is what everyone is saying)

 

Webb - yes coming off injury but really, man, doesn't look like he was ever a talented corner.

 

Perhaps, just maybe, it is the system, i.e. the DC, and not all those players. If it is Spags issue, which is also possible, then that is still on Pees because he should know that and deal accordingly.

 

As for your Castillo comparison to try to discredit everyone complaining about Pees, he WAS the problem. He was the new cog. People readily admitted at the time that it could be just too many cooks in the kitchen, which is exactly what it seems it turned out to be, but he was the problem at the time. Harbs or Steve, forget which, even talked about his certain way and rubbing people the wrong way and now that the players know him better, there is better communication.

[redrum52]

I'm not sure if he was off the mark or we've just never seen our receivers actually make a play like we see other receivers do all the time - pull those passes in.

Two nice one handed grabs though.

It was both. Good grabs but the passes weren't on target. Didn't need to see the PFF though to know he had a good game. Steve Smith or Torrey make one of those tough td cathe and we probably win that game. This secondary can't be relied upon late in games to close out. Hopefully Asa is an upgrade. At the very least, he's an actual corner instead of safety who's being relied upon to cover.

[rmcjacket23]

 

 

As for your Castillo comparison to try to discredit everyone complaining about Pees, he WAS the problem. He was the new cog. People readily admitted at the time that it could be just too many cooks in the kitchen, which is exactly what it seems it turned out to be, but he was the problem at the time. Harbs or Steve, forget which, even talked about his certain way and rubbing people the wrong way and now that the players know him better, there is better communication.

No, I think the biggest fan problem with Castillo was he was implementing a new blocking scheme that the players either don't come around to last season, or as I think, they simply weren't equipped to run.

 

Plus, what was the fans resolution to the problem? Their resolution was to fire him. Naturally, that didn't really solve anything, because we were still going to have personnel changes, and the OC we hired runs a nearly identical blocking scheme as he did.

 

That's my problem... fans resoultion to problems, since we fired Cam Cameron, has been to fire the coach of the position that is struggling. We see, now, that as has always been the case in the NFL, the personnel on the field have exponentially more say in the outcome and on-field production in football games than any assistant coach can ever have, and that even includes coordinators.

 

I've said for years... there was nothing special about Marvin Lewis as a DC. He had below average defenses for a very long period of time in Cincinnati. Why? Personnel. A blind monkey could have coached the personnel that we had on defense when Marvin was running it. We were good bordering on great at basically 11 of 11 defensive positions... thats almost unfathomable

 

in the NFL.

 

The struggles with the defense is almost certainly a combination of DC strategy and personnel issues, with the overall majority of it hinging on the personnel. Make no mistake... in the offseason, the one thing that is guaranteed is that there will be personnel additions and subtractions on defense (secondary). Its not like the Ravens think firing Pees and replacing him is going to make this a 13-3 football team with the current defensive personnel we have.

[Ravenseconbeast]

There is this pervasive attitude within this forum lately that female means "doesn't understand football" although at times it is subtle.

 

 

That is silly.  No one has a 'pervasive attitude' in this forum just b/c you are a female.   It's your opinion that people debate the issues about, nothing else.   That's just an excuse.

[redrum52]

yes apparently every QB but a few have that really quick release this season. Go figure.

"four man rush" isn't working either. Saying do something is not a cop out - it is saying play freaking man when the soft crap zone is failing anyway. It is not like we were stopping them at all so why not try it? Why not send the house and see what happens? Worst case? It fails and they score sooner. Then the offense at least would have had a shot to win right?

He plays scared. Period. All the time.

And everyone is calling him out for that dreadful last drive he called. Everyone. Not just fans.

You lose all credibility once you try to blame the offense in any fashion. Scored 33 pts at home, no turnovers, Flacco had over a 100 QB rating, rushed for near 200 yds. Please.

The teams we've lost to had qbs who could get the ball out quickly, fact. We blitzed and it didn't work all that well and left more 1-1.

He didn't bla me the offense but many times they were in position and didn't do anything with it. The defense git 2 turnovers, one being in the red zone and we only got 6 points from it.

You can't have it both ways. The games when defense holds the Bengals and colts to low scores and we lose you blame the defense, even though they did their job, but now that the roles reversed you say another person's oponion is invalid. This game isn't on the offense, no one will say that, but the offense needs to do better in the red zone. Field goals don't win games. This loss is on coaching and the secondary.

[ravensdfan]

The teams we've lost to had qbs who could get the ball out quickly, fact. We blitzed and it didn't work all that well and left more 1-1.

He didn't bla me the offense but many times they were in position and didn't do anything with it. The defense git 2 turnovers, one being in the red zone and we only got 6 points from it.

You can't have it both ways. The games when defense holds the Bengals and colts to low scores and we lose you blame the defense, even though they did their job, but now that the roles reversed you say another person's oponion is invalid. This game isn't on the offense, no one will say that, but the offense needs to do better in the red zone. Field goals don't win games. This loss is on coaching and the secondary.

Only blame the defense when we have the lead and they collapse again, late in the 4th. And at least most times there are actual good reasons that people have for blaming the offense. This game, no. Red zone woes or not when the defense allows 21 4th quarter points, just no.

[ravensdfan]

That is silly.  No one has a 'pervasive attitude' in this forum just b/c you are a female.   It's your opinion that people debate the issues about, nothing else.   That's just an excuse.

No, I've seen the same attitude towards other female posters on the board.

[MTRavensFan]

There is this pervasive attitude within this forum lately that female means "doesn't understand football" although at times it is subtle.

 

 

Respectfully, I have to totally disagree with this assessment, and can't see anywhere in the quoted post you could have found such an attitude.

 

Bird was mainly pointing out several posters whose opinion he admires because of their knowledge and experience.

 

That you are not among them has much more to do with your narrow-minded insistence that Pees is to blame for all of our problems, and your blanket dismissal of others' opinions that the problems may go beyond Pees. 

You've been flogging that same dead horse for months now, and refuse to even consider that what others have to say might have some merit.

 

It has absolutely nothing with being female.

[codizzle]

I love the way Pees disguises coverages and things like that. He's an excellent coverage coordinator.

However, I hate his philosophy for the defensive line. Those boys want to attack, and he makes them read and react more.

Yea sometimes that gets on my nerves but the coverage ability of our LB's plus with the ability of ngata/Jernigan/McPhee/upshaw to slide back into zone when at DT spot definitely takes a little pressure off secondary

Anything to help the secondary keep the play in front of them is a huge plus but I would like to see the DL just able to straight up rush so to speak

[redrum52]

It's amazing just how much Pees has tried and how no one sees it. I see everyone describe his defense as so vanilla, but the amount of different looks and blitzes he uses is incredible.

Rivers is an excellent quarterback who was having an MVP type season to begin the year. He was going through a rough patch for a little, but it was only a matter of time before he caught fire against this weak secondary.

He damn near tried every coverage possible to no avail and it's not like this is the first time Rivers has done well against us with much better weapons on the defensive side. Pees tried press blitzing, zone blizting, rolling coverages, and now that we're doing what said would happen (giving up big plays cause of 1 on 1s)people are mad about the points and yards going up.

[ravensdfan]

Respectfully, I have to totally disagree with this assessment, and can't see anywhere in the quoted post you could have found such an attitude.

 

Bird was mainly pointing out several posters whose opinion he admires because of their knowledge and experience.

 

That you are not among them has much more to do with your narrow-minded insistence that Pees is to blame for all of our problems, and your blanket dismissal of others' opinions that the problems may go beyond Pees. 

You've been flogging that same dead horse for months now, and refuse to even consider that what others have to say might have some merit.

 

It has absolutely nothing with being female.

Nope that they are all male and held a football once has more to do with it.

 

Nope it is others' dismissal that it is Pees scheme that is an issue at all actually. I believe, and you can check, that I've said the secondary is weak, said we absolutely might get burned being aggressive, just said a minute ago it is quite possible it is a Spags issue.

 

Also interesting, and you can check it out as well, others have said the same of Pees but, the attitude is quite different in their responses to them. Just saw such a conversation last night. It's all good - no worries.

[codizzle]

No, I've seen the same attitude towards other female posters on the board.

You're respected by those that have been here awhile definitely nothing to do with gender

I'm not in this argument so I'll add.. You are crazy hardheaded though but also always add good insight . Just some opinions there

[redrum52]

Only blame the defense when we have the lead and they collapse again, late in the 4th. And at least most times there are actual good reasons that people have for blaming the offense. This game, no. Red zone woes or not when the defense allows 21 4th quarter points, just no.

Most of those games the team wouldn't have been in if the defense didn't hold up while the offense took a half to figure out how to get in the end zone.

[Moderator 3]

There is this pervasive attitude within this forum lately that female means "doesn't understand football" although at times it is subtle.

 

I have to disagree with this. Oh sure, we have the occasional neanderthal, but we mods usually "take 'em out to the woodshed". The Flock has a very high rate of female participation and we're quite proud of that. We rarely have any problems.

[ravensdfan]

You're respected by those that have been here awhile definitely nothing to do with gender

I'm not in this argument so I'll add.. You are crazy hardheaded though but also always add good insight . Just some opinions there

100% true there! Can't argue that point.

[The Raven]

No, I've seen the same attitude towards other female posters on the board.

 

Sorry but I can't agree. I've enjoyed several intelligent discussions with Ratedr, various mods, and even yourself. If I'm being honest, the people who discount your opinions merely because you're female are the minority. As much as I (and others) disagree with you, the vast majority of us respect your opinion, and we don't discount it based on gender. 

 

I am sorry you feel this way, though.

[ravensdfan]

Most of those games the team wouldn't have been in if the defense didn't hold up while the offense took a half to figure out how to get in the end zone.

That falls under the "at least most of the time they have valid reasons" part.

[billick]

I was confused by having an ILB cover a TE.

[AsianRice]

No, I've seen the same attitude towards other female posters on the board.

you are a female? I don't even notice....

 

The only female I know in here is Mom Gene cuz she said it couple times....

 

I believe regular people on the message board are careless about who's behind the keyboard cuz what they see and comprehend is the content of what you are typing.

 

If you ran into some ignorant posters about sexism, they are weather posters and they don't even worth to discuss.

 

I think we have one of the best Mods in the league, so these kind of sex attack should always get intervened and blocked by the Ravens patrols....

[BmoreBird22]

you are a female? I don't even notice....

 

The only female I know in here is Mom Gene cuz she said it couple times....

 

I believe regular people on the message board are careless about who's behind the keyboard cuz what they see and comprehend is the content of what you are typing.

 

If you ran into some ignorant posters about sexism, they are weather posters and they don't even worth to discuss.

 

I think we have one of the best Mods in the league, so these kind of sex attack should always get intervened and blocked by the Ravens patrols....

Bingo

[Fear_the_Raven]

https://twitter.com/gdowning14/status/539823428459827200

That's good stuff at least

That's great!  I've been trying to pay more attention to the battles in the trenches, but I still can't see the game clearly enough to catch plays like this, so it's always nice when someone points them out.

[edjrtap]

So when will the DC be let go? Cameron was let go late in the season. Can't the same be done now??? He has done nothing to improve our defense. Please get a new DC. Get us back to being a top 10 defense how we got used to in the early 00's. It's gone down the hill the past 2-3 years.

[GrimCoconut]

I actually see Pees disguise his defense a lot. I'm not sure what others see. I saw the front seven crowding the LOS making it very hard to read. Then I saw guys drop in coverage and sometimes they blitzed. I guess people just see off man coverage and assume it's vanilla.