Taliaferro vs Carlos Hyde

[sflegend89]

If you recall when we drafted Jernigan in the 2nd round we got blasted by draft analysts for not taking Carlos Hyde, the draft's "top rb". We held off at rb until the 4th round and took small school product Lorenzo Taliaferro. Let's check in how we did so far from a value perspective, extremely similar role and sample size.

Carlos Hyde: 63 carries, 239 yds, 3.8 YPC, 3 TD

Lorenzo Taliaferro: 61 carries, 257 yds, 4.2 YPC, 4 TD

[Purple Punishment]

If you recall when we drafted Jernigan in the 2nd round we got blasted by draft analysts for not taking Carlos Hyde, the draft's "top rb". We held off at rb until the 4th round and took small school product Lorenzo Taliaferro. Let's check in how we did so far from a value perspective, extremely similar role and sample size.

Carlos Hyde: 63 carries, 239 yds, 3.8 YPC, 3 TD

Lorenzo Taliaferro: 61 carries, 257 yds, 4.2 YPC, 4 TD

Excellent analysis! So I guess with the analysts train of thought. We walked away with two 2nd round talents.

[stampedehero]

If you recall when we drafted Jernigan in the 2nd round we got blasted by draft analysts for not taking Carlos Hyde, the draft's "top rb". We held off at rb until the 4th round and took small school product Lorenzo Taliaferro. Let's check in how we did so far from a value perspective, extremely similar role and sample size.

Carlos Hyde: 63 carries, 239 yds, 3.8 YPC, 3 TD

Lorenzo Taliaferro: 61 carries, 257 yds, 4.2 YPC, 4 TD

Many say the Saints D is not in form.  This would be a good game for Tal to get and hold the ball,score at least one TD and create some havoc alongside Forsett. Hyde is good but this game could be a tasty morsal for Tal.   Our Offense has to waste their D.    Brees will get his and I expect Graham to do some damage  no matter what condition he is in.  

[TDubbs]

From a value perspective we definitely made the right move. Timmy has great long-term potential on the dline and like what Taliaferro does for us. I do believe Carlos Hyde has more star potential than Taliaferro though. 

[GrimCoconut]

How about Jeremy Hill? He's looked great, too. He was highly touted and has looked fantastic this year.

[gabefergy]

Ummm, most draft analysts thought it was great value to get Jernigan where we did.

I dont think anyone expected the Ravens to take a RB early.

[CalvinSmoke]

Ummm, most draft analysts thought it was great value to get Jernigan where we did.

I dont think anyone expected the Ravens to take a RB early.

yea, Timmy was a 1st round talent

[ravensnick]

If you recall when we drafted Jernigan in the 2nd round we got blasted by draft analysts for not taking Carlos Hyde, the draft's "top rb". We held off at rb until the 4th round and took small school product Lorenzo Taliaferro. Let's check in how we did so far from a value perspective, extremely similar role and sample size.

Carlos Hyde: 63 carries, 239 yds, 3.8 YPC, 3 TD

Lorenzo Taliaferro: 61 carries, 257 yds, 4.2 YPC, 4 TD

I know a lot of people (including me) where scratching there head becuase they didn't think Jernigan could adapt to 3-4 DE. They would be wrong. He also was surefire BPA. He was by many a top 20 pick before he failed his drug test at the combine.

 

We killed this draft we got:

 

1st Round:

Mosely, Pro Bowl LB, maybe even All-Pro. Surefire DROY, a top three player from the draft

2nd round:

Jernigan, who has looked explosive and powerful since his return. Looks like he was worth a 1st rounder in my book.

3rd Round:

Brooks, who has truggled but performed well too. Already better than Elam IMO. He should be starting a SS.

Crockett Gilmore: Great blocking TE with some good hands. Very nice piece to have.

4th round:

Brent Urban: IR

Taliaferro, perhaps the biggest RB steal outside of Clevelands Duo

5th round:

John Urshel: look solid at guard, helps us with KO injury concerns. great backup

6th round:

Weinning: PS, not a great pick

7th round:

Camp, as look good in limited play

[Inqui]

My theory is that the running game is 80% OL blocking, 20% what the RB does. Our line's improved a hundred-fold, while SF's is a wreck this year. Switch the two and the numbers wouldn't change by much.

 

That, and like others here I don't recall the Ravens getting heat for not taking Hyde.

[Maryland]

Hyde is also stuck with what I would consider a bottom-5 OL blocking for him, while Taliaferro has a top-5 unit blocking for him. I once considered Staley the best LT in the game, but he has been average at best this year. Iupati has been playing poorly due to injury, and Johnathan Martin is just as bad as he was in Miami. 

 

I like the Taliaferro pick way more than a theoretical Hyde in the 2nd scenario, but Hyde is playing with a lesser team and for an offense that abandons the run because they have a stupid OC in Greg Roman. It's not all Hyde's fault. 

 

And I don't remember anyone bashing the Jernigan pick in terms of value, although he was projected as a 4-3 DT. And I don't remember anyone criticizing us for not taking Hyde, considering we had Rice and Pierce slated to be our top-2 RBs going into the year (and this was before the elevator situation). We actually had hope for Pierce thriving in Kubiak's ZBS too... how times have changed

[DomMcRaven]

If you recall when we drafted Jernigan in the 2nd round we got blasted by draft analysts for not taking Carlos Hyde, the draft's "top rb". We held off at rb until the 4th round and took small school product Lorenzo Taliaferro. Let's check in how we did so far from a value perspective, extremely similar role and sample size.

Carlos Hyde: 63 carries, 239 yds, 3.8 YPC, 3 TD

Lorenzo Taliaferro: 61 carries, 257 yds, 4.2 YPC, 4 TD

When we played the Browns in Cleveland, my dad was watching the game with me, and yes, he's a Niners fan. When LT went off the way he did, I told him that what he had in Hyde is what we have in LT. So, great points!

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

If you recall when we drafted Jernigan in the 2nd round we got blasted by draft analysts for not taking Carlos Hyde, the draft's "top rb". We held off at rb until the 4th round and took small school product Lorenzo Taliaferro. Let's check in how we did so far from a value perspective, extremely similar role and sample size.

Carlos Hyde: 63 carries, 239 yds, 3.8 YPC, 3 TD

Lorenzo Taliaferro: 61 carries, 257 yds, 4.2 YPC, 4 TD

 

 

I don't remember analyst blasting us for that and I don't know why they would if they did do it like you say they did.We had Rice and Pierce at the time and they were both under contract for years to come.We had no need to take a running back that high in the draft.It wouldn't surprise me if we put some effort into finding a top tier back after this season though.

[sflegend89]

Ummm, most draft analysts thought it was great value to get Jernigan where we did.

I dont think anyone expected the Ravens to take a RB early.

On ESPN draft coverage they said on air that Jernigan wasn't a good fit and mentioned Hyde by name as a better use of the pick. If you recall Harbaugh actually responded to that incident in an NFLN interview saying something to the effect of "I don't know what film they were watching"

[kassaiscool]

If you recall when we drafted Jernigan in the 2nd round we got blasted by draft analysts for not taking Carlos Hyde, the draft's "top rb". We held off at rb until the 4th round and took small school product Lorenzo Taliaferro. Let's check in how we did so far from a value perspective, extremely similar role and sample size.

Carlos Hyde: 63 carries, 239 yds, 3.8 YPC, 3 TD

Lorenzo Taliaferro: 61 carries, 257 yds, 4.2 YPC, 4 TD

 

All you have done is state their rushing stats early in their career. If you don't remember Ray Rice rookie stats for his rookie year. 107 carriers 454 yards 4.2 ypc and 0 TDs. I think Carlos Hyde is the better back its just a matter of time before he starts producing more.

[sflegend89]

All you have done is state their rushing stats early in their career. If you don't remember Ray Rice rookie stats for his rookie year. 107 carriers 454 yards 4.2 ypc and 0 TDs. I think Carlos Hyde is the better back its just a matter of time before he starts producing more.

Interesting how no where in my OP did claim Taliaferro was the superior talent or even make any personal analysis at all. All I did was lay out the facts and post the stats to invoke a discussion. Posting the stats simply makes it a more comprehensive OP to help feed the discussion and give the average reader a better feel for how each player has contributed thus far.

The key phrase in my OP is "Let's check in on how we did so far from a VALUE perspective".

[kassaiscool]

Interesting how no where in my OP did claim Taliaferro was the superior talent or even make any personal analysis at all. All I did was lay out the facts and post the stats to invoke a discussion. Posting the stats simply makes it a more comprehensive OP to help feed the discussion and give the average reader a better feel for how each player has contributed thus far.

The key phrase in my OP is "Let's check in on how we did so far from a VALUE perspective".

 

You should reread what you wrote. He first says "we got blasted by draft analysts for not taking Carlos Hyde" then he goes on to say a little later "Let's check in how we did so far from a value perspective, extremely similar role and sample size." How can you determine real value from a sample size? The feel I got from you is we got a player who is better for less, so far this season. My argument was just showing Ray Rice's stats from his rookie year and how it varies from running back to running back how good they start off.

[cobrajet]

This past draft is looking good!

[dhstandard]

I like the Jernigan pick.  He is 1st round talent who we will lose at the end of his contract like we do with all our big players.  By this I mean he will be our next Arthur Jones.  Not saying we won't try to keep him, but he is that under the radar talent who will have a flashy final season making more standout plays and be offered a huge deal by another team that we can't match while we try to keep guys like Mosley.

 

Talifaferro is still a question mark for me.  He runs strong but still way too high (which is why he fumbled in the Steelers game) and doesn't show much agility as of now.

 

Hyde is a beast though.   49ers have a garbage line and he was pounding the ball up the middle, making guys miss, looked insane out there today against the Redskins.  Has great agility and acceleration, he can catch too.

 

Overall, I'm happy with the Jernigan pick, but to answer the title, it's not even close.  LT has a ways to go before we see how good he will be.

[gabefergy]

On ESPN draft coverage they said on air that Jernigan wasn't a good fit and mentioned Hyde by name as a better use of the pick. If you recall Harbaugh actually responded to that incident in an NFLN interview saying something to the effect of "I don't know what film they were watching"

I must have missed that, but overall the pick was greeted with praise from pretty much every draft analyst out there.

[Tenacious Faulker]

This rookie class is chocked full of talented players.  Most are making contributions like in no other year.  LT I think works well in Kubiak's system and he's able to turn most one-cut backs into 1000+ yard rushers.   They could'e gotten Alfred Blue or Storm Johnson for LT's role too (both of whom have showed flashes this season spot starts) and had similar success.  The key is how they're used.  If we never signed Forsett, LT could've been our new Jamal Lewis.

[rmcjacket23]

I'll put it simply... the only way this argument is going to hold up in the long run is IF Taliaferro takes over as the lead back in this offense at some point in the next year or two.

 

When Frank Gore leaves SF, and its almost certainly going to be after this season, Hyde is going to be the lead back in that offense. As such, he figures to start putting up much closer to Frank Gore-like numbers as early as next season, which would probably put him in the ball park of 250 carries, 1,200 yards, and the possibility of double digit TDs.

 

I don't see Taliaferro having those types of numbers in a complementary role that he currently has, and I think the same role he continues to have for at least another year or two.

 

The roles might be similar NOW, but I don't think anybody suspect their roles will be equal going forward.

[ellicottraven]

Excellent analysis! So I guess with the analysts train of thought. We walked away with two 2nd round talents.

Except that Jernigan was universally considered a first round talent!

[Inqui]

Except that Jernigan was universally considered a first round talent!

LT and Brooks.

[ellicottraven]

LT and Brooks.

And Gillmore too maybe??? lol

[JoeyFlex5]

Ummm, most draft analysts thought it was great value to get Jernigan where we did.

I dont think anyone expected the Ravens to take a RB early.

this is what i was thinking lol, ozzie got serious praise for this one because we still needed DL help, especially for the future, and i dont think anyone was doubting that jernigan is a first round talent, top 5 in the 2nd round at worst, he slid pretty far to us. 

 

meanwhile, i thought carlos hyde was a bit overrated, didnt know about talliaferro before, but after looking into it a bit, i loved the pick, was one of my favorite value picks in the draft. great combination of size and athleticism and power, he just needs a little more between the ears and he could be a real classic bellcow back. 

 

would also like to see him work on his pad level, he runs way too high right now for his running style to be consistent, i see similarities to steven jackson if he could just get those pads down regularly and blow through defenders. 

 

still think the ravens take a RB early this draft though, if yeldon is available in the 2nd i think that is a huge selection, dude is like shady mccoy mixed with jamaal charles, very underrated and the idea of him falling to us in the 2nd is very realistic unless teams just have a feeding frenzy on backs in the early 2nd

[ravensnick]

this is what i was thinking lol, ozzie got serious praise for this one because we still needed DL help, especially for the future, and i dont think anyone was doubting that jernigan is a first round talent, top 5 in the 2nd round at worst, he slid pretty far to us. 

 

meanwhile, i thought carlos hyde was a bit overrated, didnt know about talliaferro before, but after looking into it a bit, i loved the pick, was one of my favorite value picks in the draft. great combination of size and athleticism and power, he just needs a little more between the ears and he could be a real classic bellcow back. 

 

would also like to see him work on his pad level, he runs way too high right now for his running style to be consistent, i see similarities to steven jackson if he could just get those pads down regularly and blow through defenders. 

 

still think the ravens take a RB early this draft though, if yeldon is available in the 2nd i think that is a huge selection, dude is like shady mccoy mixed with jamaal charles, very underrated and the idea of him falling to us in the 2nd is very realistic unless teams just have a feeding frenzy on backs in the early 2nd

Not a very good comparison, I'd personally go with a non-injury prone Ryan Matthews, which is still a great back.

[JoeyFlex5]

Not a very good comparison, I'd personally go with a non-injury prone Ryan Matthews, which is still a great back.

im talking about his mix of elusiveness and ability to break open field tackles, his speed is definitely lacking compared to either of them, but he has incredible elusiveness in the gaps, hence the mccoy reference, and when he gets to that 2nd and 3rd level, db's just bounce right off of him, which is something you see jamaal charles do quite often. those were 2 players that immediately popped into my head lol. 

[ravensnick]

im talking about his mix of elusiveness and ability to break open field tackles, his speed is definitely lacking compared to either of them, but he has incredible elusiveness in the gaps, hence the mccoy reference, and when he gets to that 2nd and 3rd level, db's just bounce right off of him, which is something you see jamaal charles do quite often. those were 2 players that immediately popped into my head lol. 

He doesn't have the speed or elusiveness of a Charles or Mccoy. He usually doesn;t get touched until the second level because of the Bama line. 

[Gordo52]

Where has he been? Not complaining since Forsett's been tearing it up, just wondering.

Definitely rather see him than Pierce.

Edit: Although it seems most of the time when Pierce is in, the o line struggles to block or the play call is too predictable.

Not trying to diss Pierce here

[JoeyFlex5]

Where has he been? Not complaining since Forsett's been tearing it up, just wondering.

Definitely rather see him than Pierce.

Edit: Although it seems most of the time when Pierce is in, the o line struggles to block or the play call is too predictable.

Not trying to diss Pierce here

i noticed that pierce definitely doesnt get a fair shot because the line just gets blown through immediately when pierce gets most of his carries.