Official Vent Thread: Titans

[rmcjacket23]

Good, valid points! He has rushed throws at times when he didn't have to but the reverse is also true. He has had a tendency not to pull the trigger fast enough at other times. It's a delicate balance, right? Last week, when he threw the pick, it was a hurried throw that was caused by real pressure from James Harrison, not perceived pressure. Against the Titans, I saw him throwing off his back foot at times but, again, I thought Ken Whisenhunt, an old Steelers coach, did a pretty good job of applying pressure on Joe in the 1st half.

 

How did you feel about his mechanics on the TD throw to Torrey? How would you compare his mechanics to, say, Cam Newton's in tonight's game against Philly. To me, Joe's mechanics are head and shoulders better. I still think he has room for improvement in going through his progressions like the play he locked in on Steve Smith when he could have had a first down by hitting Torrey on a short crossing pattern over the middle. Torrey appeared to be wide open.

In the second half, I thought his mechanics were generally fine. In all honesty... I haven't seen him look that bad mechanically in a long, long time, and maybe ever. His mechanics are generally amongst the best in the league in my opinion. He typically doesn't fade away from throws unless he absolutely has to, and while a lot of QBs (like Newton, who's mechanics are horrible and always have been) throw INTs because of poor mechanics (see Stafford), Joe's tend to be almost universally based on decision making and just trying to put the ball in places that should never be attempted.

 

I think I commented earlier on either this thread or another about that play that CBS kept harping on, but I didn't have a problem with it. Steve Smith was open by NFL standards, and I think he needs to catch that ball. If he does, this isn't a conversation. Was Torrey open? Yes. Would he have gotten the first down? Probably, not guaranteed though. The safety was coming off his man to come down and make the tackle, and Torrey isn't exactly known for being a tackle-shedding, great open field runner.

 

To me, Smith is open, its not an overly difficult throw to make (and Joe made it), and it gains more yardage than Torrey would have. I don't understand why that's perceived as a problem by some.

[Moderator 3]

Knock it off. There is a Flacco thread for that discussion. This thread is to discuss our recent game with the Titans.

[MTRavensFan]

Knock it off. There is a Flacco thread for that discussion. This thread is to discuss our recent game with the Titans.

Flacco vs. Brady/ SB run debate has been moved to the Flacco thread. Carry on.

[The Raven]

I have a question about Pees. Could it be that he knows how to use his LBs and DL but doesn't know how to use his secondary? On paper it looked like we had the players to succeed but they were never in position to make plays or the wrong person was in position to. Or is it spagnulo ?

 

No, that's definitely not it. He's well-known for calling great coverages. If there's one group he doesn't know how to use, it's the DL.

[pitchblack_20]

No, that's definitely not it. He's well-known for calling great coverages. If there's one group he doesn't know how to use, it's the DL.

Well I don't understand why we can stop the rush consistently but we can't stop anyone from passing. So is it pash rush or secondary ? We definetly have the weapons to destroy offensive lines.

[redrum52]

I have a question about Pees. Could it be that he knows how to use his LBs and DL but doesn't know how to use his secondary? On paper it looked like we had the players to succeed but they were never in position to make plays or the wrong person was in position to. Or is it spagnulo ?

I don't think losing Austin is helping, but I think it's more of a personnel problem than anything else. The 3 starters at cb haven't been on the field once this season at the same time. If we had Hill, Brooks, Jimmy, Webb and Asa, I think the secondary would look a lot better, but that won't be happening.

[redrum52]

No, that's definitely not it. He's well-known for calling great coverages. If there's one group he doesn't know how to use, it's the DL.

Feel like we rarely run stunts or try to confuse lineman up front. It seems he just wants guys to win their battles and that's it.

[arnie_uk]

Feel like we rarely run stunts or try to confuse lineman up front. It seems he just wants guys to win their battles and that's it.

precisely. The most exotic he seems to get is a delayed mlb blitz, which is actually very successful so far

[PurpleCityLights]

That's all great and cute and all, but the Ravens had five offensive possessions in the first half. Three of those drives moved for a combined 6 yards. That's 9 players for 6 yards. We had a total of 84 yards on five possessions in the first half, which if my math is correct, means we averaged about 17 yards per possession.

Even agreeing that the Ravens didn't have the ball in the first quarter, they had the ball plenty in the 2nd quarter, where Joe went 6 for 13 for 66 yards.

Needless to say, I think my original comments are a pretty good synopsis based on what actually happened on the field.

Don't you know by now when talking about our team & what they did wrong you shall not take Flacco of Nazareth name in vain on this website. He has the power to under throw a WRer & turn water into mosquito......

[izvoodoo]

I don't think losing Austin is helping, but I think it's more of a personnel problem than anything else. The 3 starters at cb haven't been on the field once this season at the same time. If we had Hill, Brooks, Jimmy, Webb and Asa, I think the secondary would look a lot better, but that won't be happening.

Even if Webb were as healthy as last year we'd be a lot better off.

[redrum52]

Even if Webb were as healthy as last year we'd be a lot better off.

He looked shaky last year as well. I was hoping he would've recovered by now. Can just hope he gets better later in the season, even though it's about make or break time now.

[izvoodoo]

He looked shaky last year as well. I was hoping he would've recovered by now. Can just hope he gets better later in the season, even though it's about make or break time now.

He was shaky last year, but this year he's a wash.  He was still a starting corner last year

[The Raven]

Well I don't understand why we can stop the rush consistently but we can't stop anyone from passing. So is it pash rush or secondary ? We definetly have the weapons to destroy offensive lines.

 

It's the pass rush. Pees sometimes asks the line to be more reactionary than aggressive. Pees is all about reading and reacting. Obviously, that slows a pass rush. 

 

Feel like we rarely run stunts or try to confuse lineman up front. It seems he just wants guys to win their battles and that's it.

 

We are starting to do more stunts. Suggs is always stunting inside. I've seen McPhee do it. The reason Pees doesn't do many stunts, I think, is that if it's a run play or a screen, you're doomed. Stunts typically get killed by runs or screens. Also, it takes perfect choreography to actually make it work. If it's not executed 100 percent, you might as well just not even stunt. If a stunt isn't done well, it only hurts you because it delays the pass rush even more. It's all or nothing with stunts. 

 

Also, you gotta ask the questions if our players can stunt and if we really need to do that. I don't know if I want Dumervil stunting inside, he's not strong enough. Moreover, Dumervil is plenty effective just going off the edge. Why bother stunting him? I don't know if I want McPhee or Upshaw looping outside, they aren't quite quick enough. 

 

I do think we need more of those plays, I'm just trying to reason why Pees doesn't do it.

[redrum52]

It's the pass rush. Pees sometimes asks the line to be more reactionary than aggressive. Pees is all about reading and reacting. Obviously, that slows a pass rush.

We are starting to do more stunts. Suggs is always stunting inside. I've seen McPhee do it. The reason Pees doesn't do many stunts, I think, is that if it's a run play or a screen, you're doomed. Stunts typically get killed by runs or screens. Also, it takes perfect choreography to actually make it work. If it's not executed 100 percent, you might as well just not even stunt. If a stunt isn't done well, it only hurts you because it delays the pass rush even more. It's all or nothing with stunts.

Also, you gotta ask the questions if our players can stunt and if we really need to do that. I don't know if I want Dumervil stunting inside, he's not strong enough. Moreover, Dumervil is plenty effective just going off the edge. Why bother stunting him? I don't know if I want McPhee or Upshaw looping outside, they aren't quite quick enough.

I do think we need more of those plays, I'm just trying to reason why Pees doesn't do it.

I was figuring that as well. Keeps them in place if the team decides to run or try a quick screen but that also goes into why some people don't think he's aggressive enough. It doesn't bother me that much cause honestly we should generate a rush with the guys we have disguise or not.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

In the second half, I thought his mechanics were generally fine. In all honesty... I haven't seen him look that bad mechanically in a long, long time, and maybe ever. His mechanics are generally amongst the best in the league in my opinion. He typically doesn't fade away from throws unless he absolutely has to, and while a lot of QBs (like Newton, who's mechanics are horrible and always have been) throw INTs because of poor mechanics (see Stafford), Joe's tend to be almost universally based on decision making and just trying to put the ball in places that should never be attempted.

 

I think I commented earlier on either this thread or another about that play that CBS kept harping on, but I didn't have a problem with it. Steve Smith was open by NFL standards, and I think he needs to catch that ball. If he does, this isn't a conversation. Was Torrey open? Yes. Would he have gotten the first down? Probably, not guaranteed though. The safety was coming off his man to come down and make the tackle, and Torrey isn't exactly known for being a tackle-shedding, great open field runner.

 

To me, Smith is open, its not an overly difficult throw to make (and Joe made it), and it gains more yardage than Torrey would have. I don't understand why that's perceived as a problem by some.

 

We're on the same page. Thanks for your knowledgeable critique of the Ravens' performance in the Titans game! One of the things that separates a sheep from a goat when it comes to QBs is their fearlessness about throwing into coverage. Joe threaded the needle on the play in question and I agree that Steve should have come down with it. What I liked about Jim McMahon, when he played for the Bears, was his fearlessness about making throws that others wouldn't attempt. In order to be a winner, a QB can't be afraid to lose. I think Joe has a bit of that same game mentality.

[757RavensFan]

Not sure if it was mentioned, but it bothered me to NO end that Harbaugh didn't challenge the Suggs sack that clearly looked like a safety!!

[Cillmatic]

Not sure if it was mentioned, but it bothered me to NO end that Harbaugh didn't challenge the Suggs sack that clearly looked like a safety!!

It wasn't a safety. Look back at the play. Zach was sacked between the 1 and goal line. Close but not exactly a safety.

[rmcjacket23]

Not sure if it was mentioned, but it bothered me to NO end that Harbaugh didn't challenge the Suggs sack that clearly looked like a safety!!

I could be wrong, but I think they acknowledged that the whistle blew the play dead with "forward progress", which isn't reviewable.

 

Basically, it would be an extremely tough challenge to win.

[GrimCoconut]

Yeah. To me it looked like a safety, but why risk challenging something like that? I think it was the right call. If you lose that it could've been a problem and then people would ask why he challenged it. It's so easy for us to second guess it but I think that's a hard one to challenge because it's a 50/50 and there might not be enough to overturn.

[Tank 92]

Not sure if it was mentioned, but it bothered me to NO end that Harbaugh didn't challenge the Suggs sack that clearly looked like a safety!!

 

 

I'm sure you know that he depends on someone upstairs in the booth to advise on challenges.

 

It did look like a safety, but since it was a subjective judgement call to begin with(I think they ruled forward progress?), I'm not sure they would have overturned it anyway.

[codizzle]

They were on the one anyway... Had em on the ropes.. Glad he didn't challenge

[BmoreBird22]

I don't think it was a safety. Zach came out of the end zone and never went back in under his own power, in my view. Have to be in the end zone or re-establish his position in the end zone for a safety to happen

[757RavensFan]

I'm sure you know that he depends on someone upstairs in the booth to advise on challenges.

 

It did look like a safety, but since it was a subjective judgement call to begin with(I think they ruled forward progress?), I'm not sure they would have overturned it anyway.

 

I know Harbs relies on the guys in the booth to help w/ challenges.  However, we've seen Harbs and staff challenge some calls that left us scratching our heads wondering why the heck was that challenged.  I'm guessing a majority of us would not have complained if he challenged it.

[The Raven]

I don't think it was a safety. Zach came out of the end zone and never went back in under his own power, in my view. Have to be in the end zone or re-establish his position in the end zone for a safety to happen

 

That's exactly how I saw it

[BmoreBird22]

That's exactly how I saw it

He was clearly out before getting tackled back into the end zone. I think most people just saw him in the end zone and got excited for a safety

[GrimCoconut]

I don't think it was a safety. Zach came out of the end zone and never went back in under his own power, in my view. Have to be in the end zone or re-establish his position in the end zone for a safety to happen

I think it was a really hard call to make either way, whether it was or wasn't a safety. On those kind of calls, I'd avoid throwing the red flag unless you're in desperation mode, which we weren't. There wasn't enough conclusive evidence too overturn it. I think it was right to not challenge it.

[beanfigger]

I think it was a really hard call to make either way, whether it was or wasn't a safety. On those kind of calls, I'd avoid throwing the red flag unless you're in desperation mode, which we weren't. There wasn't enough conclusive evidence too overturn it. I think it was right to not challenge it.

Yeah, you really need someone to find a camera angle with a definitive view for things like that. Not sure there was one there.

[SizzleSuggs55]

Yep! Its time to start Tyrod. Like ya said, Joe didn't step into his throws several times. Or could

it be he had no place to step 'cause the pocket was collapsing around him? What did ya think about

his throw to Torrey in the endzone? It was probably a fluke. It prompted Steve Buerlein to comment

that Joe throws the deep ball as well as anyone in the league but what would he know? He was a pro

QB, unlike you.

Joe didn't look hesitant at all when he threw the deep ball to Steve Smith, who let it go right

through his hands. Granted, it was thrown into double or triple coverage but that's what separates

the sheep from the goats.

Nice jab! Try a right hook next time!

I've never seen a post quite like this. You might be in a little too deep bro, you are very defensive about Flacco.. When i wasn't even trying to criticize him. Buddy, all i said was i was worried about him because he's never looked timid in the pocket in his entire career. He's always been fearless so it was an anomaly to see him not step into some throws that he usually would have.

[redrum52]

I've never seen a post quite like this. You might be in a little too deep bro, you are very defensive about Flacco.. When i wasn't even trying to criticize him. Buddy, all i said was i was worried about him because he's never looked timid in the pocket in his entire career. He's always been fearless so it was an anomaly to see him not step into some throws that he usually would have.

This is really the first time you've seen something like this?

[SizzleSuggs55]

This is really the first time you've seen something like this?

That is where i misspoke. It just surprises me every time. We are on the same team people.