Official Vent Thread: Titans

[GrimCoconut]

I really do actually appreciate that. I thought I saw a pretty good mix with press bail mixed in. I just saw Mettenberger and Wisenhunt both confirmed a lot of zone. Would explain Elam's low snap count

I absolutely love press bail coverage. It was my favorite coverage to play. It cab be such an effective technique against offenses. It can really confuse a QB and WR. It requires, however, a lot of skill at it. It's not something so easily performed.

There was definitely a lot of zone with a good amount of man and press bail. A lot of diverse coverage schemes for the secondary.

[ravensdfan]

Really? I thought I saw more man/press. I'll defer to you, though, being the resident secondary expert.

It was more man/press coverage. Which is why guys weren't 10 yds off their guy. Even the announcing crew on my feed was commenting on all the 1 on 1 coverage looks we gave them and how they were failing to take advantage of them.

 

We DID run zone as well - and we DID do it much better than previously.

[The Raven]

I really do actually appreciate that. I thought I saw a pretty good mix with press bail mixed in. I just saw Mettenberger and Wisenhunt both confirmed a lot of zone. Would explain Elam's low snap count

I absolutely love press bail coverage. It was my favorite coverage to play. It cab be such an effective technique against offenses. It can really confuse a QB and WR. It requires, however, a lot of skill at it. It's not something so easily performed.

There was definitely a lot of zone with a good amount of man and press bail. A lot of diverse coverage schemes for the secondary.

 

Explain this for the meatheaded former lineman. What exactly is press bail? 

 

I remember seeing quite a few cover 1 looks with Mosley or Smith roaming the middle and Hill/Brooks as the single high. Cover 1 is my favorite coverage.

 

On the topic of our pure zone coverages, our linebackers need to do better at getting deeper, especially on 3rd down. We're getting killed in the creases between the LBs and the safeties. 

[arnie_uk]

Explain this for the meatheaded former lineman. What exactly is press bail? 

 

I remember seeing quite a few cover 1 looks with Mosley or Smith roaming the middle and Hill/Brooks as the single high. Cover 1 is my favorite coverage.

 

On the topic of our pure zone coverages, our linebackers need to do better at getting deeper, especially on 3rd down. We're getting killed in the creases between the LBs and the safeties.

if it plays like it read, you show press then sprint back to your zone without actually bumping the wideout, all the while looking at the QB rather than the man opposite you.

[The Raven]

if it plays like it read, you show press then sprint back to your zone without actually bumping the wideout, all the while looking at the QB rather than the man opposite you.

 

That's what I was thinking. Just wanted it explained with some extra perspective from some guys who used the technique. 

[The Raven]

It was more man/press coverage. Which is why guys weren't 10 yds off their guy. Even the announcing crew on my feed was commenting on all the 1 on 1 coverage looks we gave them and how they were failing to take advantage of them.

 

We DID run zone as well - and we DID do it much better than previously.

 

No offense, but I'll defer to the person who actually played DB in HS and college.

[JoeyFlex5]

I disagree and I think our secondary will be fine and I still believe we will be playoffs contenders with out Jimmy Smith. You don't need a shut down cornerback to enter the playoffs 

its not that we dont have a shutdown corner, that isnt the issue at all. the issue is the lack of quality that we have at corner now that our shutdown cb is gone. 

 

our corners are atrocious right now, even webb is playing badly, when every single receiver out there can get open just by avoiding the coverage in the middle of the field, you have a problem.

[JoeyFlex5]

And before last year he was not asked to carry the offense. Joe functions well when expectations are low, as soon as you try to lean on him he lets you down.

exhibit a. playoffs, 2013. 

 

we literally rode his arm to a ring as he outdueled peyton and brady, and then tore apart what was considered by many to be the best d in the league, on the games biggest stage. 

 

oh wait nevermind, boldin was throwing passes to himself, forgot about that.

[BmoreBird22]

Explain this for the meatheaded former lineman. What exactly is press bail? 

 

I remember seeing quite a few cover 1 looks with Mosley or Smith roaming the middle and Hill/Brooks as the single high. Cover 1 is my favorite coverage.

 

On the topic of our pure zone coverages, our linebackers need to do better at getting deeper, especially on 3rd down. We're getting killed in the creases between the LBs and the safeties. 

Basically, you press, but instead of continuing to try to keep up with the press and ride the receiver to dictate their movement, it's a quick press and bail into a deep zone. It's used to disguise zone coverages as man

 

Cover 1 is my favorite as well and now that they're getting capable safeties on the backend in Hill and Brooks as he continues to develop and now that they have a truly athletic linebacker, I think the Ravens could start to employ it more. Just having these athletes is really going to open up coverages. 

 

In terms of coaching them on their depth in zone coverage, is that the linebacker coach who has to help them loosen up their zones to drop deeper or is that Pees who has to explain it?

[The Raven]

Basically, you press, but instead of continuing to try to keep up with the press and ride the receiver to dictate their movement, it's a quick press and bail into a deep zone. It's used to disguise zone coverages as man

 

Cover 1 is my favorite as well and now that they're getting capable safeties on the backend in Hill and Brooks as he continues to develop and now that they have a truly athletic linebacker, I think the Ravens could start to employ it more. Just having these athletes is really going to open up coverages. 

 

In terms of coaching them on their depth in zone coverage, is that the linebacker coach who has to help them loosen up their zones to drop deeper or is that Pees who has to explain it?

 

I'd imagine the position coach. The way I understand it, the coordinator has a vision of the team and the position coaches illustrate their part of the vision. Pees wants something a certain way, and it's up to the position coach to teach those fundamentals. It's really just a fundamental issue.

[BmoreBird22]

I'd imagine the position coach. The way I understand it, the coordinator has a vision of the team and the position coaches illustrate their part of the vision. Pees wants something a certain way, and it's up to the position coach to teach those fundamentals. It's really just a fundamental issue.

Yeah, that's what I kind of thought. It seems like it's not a terribly difficult fix and I'm sure it's something Mosley will pick up as he gets more experience.

By the way, if you want to see a team that masterfully employs press bail, watch Seattle.

[The Raven]

Yeah, that's what I kind of thought. It seems like it's not a terribly difficult fix and I'm sure it's something Mosley will pick up as he gets more experience.

By the way, if you want to see a team that masterfully employs press bail, watch Seattle.

 

Yeah, I've noticed the technique, now there's a name for it. Seattle is pretty masterful at it.

[BmoreBird22]

Yeah, I've noticed the technique, now there's a name for it. Seattle is pretty masterful at it.

They do an excellent job of disguising their coverages. Quite a few people think they run primarily press man when their predominant coverage is zone three and variations, but they do use quite a bit of cover 1. I'm just waiting to see how they hold up next year with Maxwell being gone. I'd like him to be a Raven since I think he'll fly under the radar.

[gabefergy]

Curious how you guys have any idea what the coverages are without looking at All22.

Press you would think is pretty often man coverage, but not always. Cover 2 a lot of times you press and then release the WR into the deep zones.

[The Raven]

Curious how you guys have any idea what the coverages are without looking at All22.

Press you would think is pretty often man coverage, but not always. Cover 2 a lot of times you press and then release the WR into the deep zones.

 

Well, we have eyes and brains. When you use those two things together, you can draw reasonable conclusions from observations. You don't need All-22 to determine what the coverage was. All-22 does make it easier though.

 

Pre-snap alignment tells a lot about man or zone. Watching the hips of the CBs is sometimes an indicator. And of course, seeing where players go on the field is the most obvious indicator of the coverage. I mean, for the educated mind, it's not an impossible feat to determine the coverage.

[gabefergy]

Well, we have eyes and brains. When you use those two things together, you can draw reasonable conclusions from observations. You don't need All-22 to determine what the coverage was. All-22 does make it easier though.

Pre-snap alignment tells a lot about man or zone. Watching the hips of the CBs is sometimes an indicator. And of course, seeing where players go on the field is the most obvious indicator of the coverage. I mean, for the educated mind, it's not an impossible feat to determine the coverage.

I think it is very difficult, especially because you don't see where the safeties are aligned. Watching the hips is a ptetty reliable tell, but it often doesn't show up on the Broadcast film.

I think at best it's guesswork. Maybe you can say if it was man or zone, but I find it difficult to believe anyone could accurately identify coverages consistently.

[The Raven]

I think it is very difficult, especially because you don't see where the safeties are aligned. Watching the hips is a ptetty reliable tell, but it often doesn't show up on the Broadcast film.

I think at best it's guesswork. Maybe you can say if it was man or zone, but I find it difficult to believe anyone could accurately identify coverages consistently.

 

I can't get it 100% right consistently, but I can make educated guesses that end up being fairly close.

[gabefergy]

I can't get it 100% right consistently, but I can make educated guesses that end up being fairly close.

How do you know?

[GrimCoconut]

Curious how you guys have any idea what the coverages are without looking at All22.

Press you would think is pretty often man coverage, but not always. Cover 2 a lot of times you press and then release the WR into the deep zones.

It's genuinely hard to say what we ran consistently without it, you're right. Considering I don't have it, well, I can only go off the plays where I saw a CB press bail or go into a zone coverage or watch the safeties. It's hard to say consistently though. I'm just going off what I saw and remember seeing during the game.

[StingerNLG]

Just curious.  Is Marlon Brown in Harbaugh's doghouse for some odd reason we don't know about?   I'd love to know how someone who scored 7 touchdowns last year and was a huge redzone threat can't get on the field anymore.

[gabefergy]

Just curious.  Is Marlon Brown in Harbaugh's doghouse for some odd reason we don't know about?   I'd love to know how someone who scored 7 touchdowns last year and was a huge redzone threat can't get on the field anymore.

The general concensus is he isn't very good outside of being a RZ threat.

[Static]

Just curious.  Is Marlon Brown in Harbaugh's doghouse for some odd reason we don't know about?   I'd love to know how someone who scored 7 touchdowns last year and was a huge redzone threat can't get on the field anymore.

 

Marlon Brown earns his snaps just like everyone else. He can also un-earn his snaps. He has actually seen decent time in some games only to get shut down.

[ravensdfan]

Curious how you guys have any idea what the coverages are without looking at All22.

Press you would think is pretty often man coverage, but not always. Cover 2 a lot of times you press and then release the WR into the deep zones.

 

You're absolutely correct that it is, in part, sometimes a guess but it is an educated guess based on certain tells. No one will have it correct 100% of the time but it isn't like it will be down somewhere around 20% correct.

[ravensdfan]

No offense, but I'll defer to the person who actually played DB in HS and college.

 

Defer to whomever you'd like but we ran way more press man coverage than we have any game this season. We also mixed up the zone coverage a lot. We rolled the safeties a lot and they weren't locked in as they've been for the beginning of the season.

 

I didn't actually mean more press this game than zone, I meant more than we have in any other game all season.

[beasy2487]

oh i see. Our run game won us a super bowl. How forgetful off me

When arguing, it helps to make a point. Our running back is the only reason we made the postseason in the first place. (See: 4th & 28*). Joe made some once in a lifetime plays during the Super Bowl run and I commend him for that. But I am also an adult that can step back and look at a guy's career and see him for what he is. Flacco is now, and always has been, a streaky quarterback. You can win with those, as both Joe and Eli Manning have proven. But the organization has to prop them up. When the org doesn't, you get Philip Rivers.

My point is not that Flacco can't win. My point, which is proven out by his entire body of work, is that Flacco can't be depended on to carry the team when he's supposed to. When no one expects him to, he does it all the time. But when we do, he lets us down more often than not. We may still win the game, but a solid 3 out of 5 times we win in spite of Joe in those games. It just happened against the lowly Titans.

Joe is our quarterback and will be for some time. I am happy with that. But that doesn't make him great. Good. More than good with a chip on his shoulder. Not great.

Here's hoping the retort to this comment contains more meat than salt.

[beasy2487]

exhibit a. playoffs, 2013.

we literally rode his arm to a ring as he outdueled peyton and brady, and then tore apart what was considered by many to be the best d in the league, on the games biggest stage.

oh wait nevermind, boldin was throwing passes to himself, forgot about that.

See the above post. This line of defense is tired. Players are supposed to get better, not worse. Especially players in their athletic prime that are getting paid in the top 5% of the league.

We also seem to forget that it took a bailout from Boldin and a goal line stand to win the SB when we had what, a 3 score lead at the half? This does not happen win consistent QB play. Let's be honest with ourselves here.

[izvoodoo]

oh i see. Our run game won us a super bowl. How forgetful off me

We ran the ball a lot in the first two games.  Bernard Pierce had like 8 ypc against Indy and we ran the ball 50% of the time against the Broncos (some of that was weather).

[frozen joe flacco fan]

Yup, I have, just like I noticed in the past how Stafford made a lot of throws that looked precisely like Joe's today... sense of pressure when there actually is no pressure. Its one of the main reasons why Caldwell was brought into Detroit... to stop a good QB from making bad mechanical routines that allow him to throw 15-20 INTs per season consistently.

 

Remember, there's a significant difference between PERCEIVED pressure and ACTUAL pressure. He faced actual pressure last week, and he faced some pressure this week, though not nearly as much as people think. He just simply perceived pressure, and thus faded in the pocket and threw off his back foot.

 

I'll be more than happy to point out numerous types these happened in the first half particularly when I got a chance to grow photos later this week.

 

Good, valid points! He has rushed throws at times when he didn't have to but the reverse is also true. He has had a tendency not to pull the trigger fast enough at other times. It's a delicate balance, right? Last week, when he threw the pick, it was a hurried throw that was caused by real pressure from James Harrison, not perceived pressure. Against the Titans, I saw him throwing off his back foot at times but, again, I thought Ken Whisenhunt, an old Steelers coach, did a pretty good job of applying pressure on Joe in the 1st half.

 

How did you feel about his mechanics on the TD throw to Torrey? How would you compare his mechanics to, say, Cam Newton's in tonight's game against Philly. To me, Joe's mechanics are head and shoulders better. I still think he has room for improvement in going through his progressions like the play he locked in on Steve Smith when he could have had a first down by hitting Torrey on a short crossing pattern over the middle. Torrey appeared to be wide open.

[ravensdfan]

See the above post. This line of defense is tired. Players are supposed to get better, not worse. Especially players in their athletic prime that are getting paid in the top 5% of the league.

We also seem to forget that it took a bailout from Boldin and a goal line stand to win the SB when we had what, a 3 score lead at the half? This does not happen win consistent QB play. Let's be honest with ourselves here.

 

Actually that doesn't happen unless your defense fails. That was a HUGE and MASSIVE defensive fail. Flacco doesn't play defense and the defense couldn't get off the field in the 2nd half.

 

As for Boldin "bailing him out" I'm curious what you're talking about there. Elaborate please.

[pitchblack_20]

I have a question about Pees. Could it be that he knows how to use his LBs and DL but doesn't know how to use his secondary? On paper it looked like we had the players to succeed but they were never in position to make plays or the wrong person was in position to. Or is it spagnulo ?