Controversial Ravens Draft History topic

[mgridda]

Imagine just doing ONE and only one of these though. It doesn't even have to be a no brainer, though those are nice to think about. I wish Anquan Boldin was a lifelong Raven from day one same as the rest of you. Or Steve Smith.

 

 

But imagine something a little more heinous. What if the Ravens decided to draft Troy Polamalu 10th overall instead of Terrell Suggs? What if the Ravens would have Ed Reed at free safety and Polamalu at strong safety?

 

But let's say that comes at a price...

 

 

Suggs drops to #15 and the Pittsburgh Steelers snatch him up. Joey Porter and Terrell Suggs terrorize us for a few years until James Harrison develops and then it's Harrison and Suggs.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

This is the problem with the Wizard's theory about drafting the best available player versus drafting

for the most acute need and by position. The BAP is a judgement call made by someone who has a built-in bias for certain schools, most notably his alma mater --- Alabama. Sometimes it works out well as in the case of CJ Mosely. Sometimes, quality players like Terrance West get overlooked. I wanted us to

draft Terrance from the gitgo and I think this will go down in history as one of the worst decisions we ever made, i.e., not to draft a RB from a small school in Baltimore County. Oh well! Forrest Gump said it best --- "Stupid is as stupid does!"

[rmw10]

This is the problem with the Wizard's theory about drafting the best available player versus drafting

for the most acute need and by position. The BAP is a judgement call made by someone who has a built-in bias for certain schools, most notably his alma mater --- Alabama. Sometimes it works out well as in the case of CJ Mosely. Sometimes, quality players like Terrance West get overlooked. I wanted us to

draft Terrance from the gitgo and I think this will go down in history as one of the worst decisions we ever made, i.e., not to draft a RB from a small school in Baltimore County. Oh well! Forrest Gump said it best --- "Stupid is as stupid does!"

 

What about the fact that we didn't have a chance at him at our second 3rd round pick?  That was a comp pick and we were stuck at that spot no matter what.  Terrence Brooks in the 3rd was much more of a need than RB at the time, so that's definitely not a case of pure BPA.

[pep_meister]

richard sherman one is what gets me the most.... HOLY CRAP... Jimmy Smith, Richard Sherman, Webb in the slot. Just one player and we would be a super bowl caliber team right now. Jimmy probably never would have gotten injured.

[ravensnick]

How about Alshon Jeffry over Upshaw? But Upshaw wasn't a bad selection by any means. We needed a WR then and Jeffry went like 5 picks later.

[ravensnick]

This is the problem with the Wizard's theory about drafting the best available player versus drafting

for the most acute need and by position. The BAP is a judgement call made by someone who has a built-in bias for certain schools, most notably his alma mater --- Alabama. Sometimes it works out well as in the case of CJ Mosely. Sometimes, quality players like Terrance West get overlooked. I wanted us to

draft Terrance from the gitgo and I think this will go down in history as one of the worst decisions we ever made, i.e., not to draft a RB from a small school in Baltimore County. Oh well! Forrest Gump said it best --- "Stupid is as stupid does!"

West didn't get overlooked at all. we were gonna take him with that 3rd comp, 100 overall pick, but cleveland drafted him 4 picks before us. Taliaferro isn't much worse than West, so that can't be "one of the worst decisions". One of those would have be Travis Taylor, Mark Clayton over Aaron Rodgers, or Kyle Boller. Ozzie has only drafted like 7/8 bama guys in the past, the majority of them in the later rounds. The only true bust has been Cody, but he at least as played a did pretty well for one season. Guys we have gotten from Bama include: Mosely, Jarrett Johnson,Le'ron McClain, and Upshaw. 

[Tank 92]

brady? ewwwwwww!  He never would have survived in the AFC North.

[Gordo52]

Just went back and re read it more. Good work.

Man, Suggs vs Polumalu is a tough one, even in hindsight.... Not exactly sure what I would do but seeing Ed & Troy playing next to each other in their primes though.

[Andrew Glass]

micheal clayton actually looked really really good in STL before he tore up his knee.

[cobrajet]

I enjoyed the research on this post

[pep_meister]

Just went back and re read it more. Good work.

Man, Suggs vs Polumalu is a tough one, even in hindsight.... Not exactly sure what I would do but seeing Ed & Troy playing next to each other in their primes though.

easy decision gordo. arguably the two best safety's to ever play the game... imagine what qb's would be thinking...

[Gordo52]

easy decision gordo. arguably the two best safety's to ever play the game... imagine what qb's would be thinking...

Feels dirty to say lol

Love Suggs, and he's been a beast too

[PurpleReign92]

The first player we picked Left Tackle JO now that started it all for us on the draft board...

[The Raven]

The first player we picked Left Tackle JO now that started it all for us on the draft board...

 

Well, that settles that.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

West didn't get overlooked at all. we were gonna take him with that 3rd comp, 100 overall pick, but cleveland drafted him 4 picks before us. Taliaferro isn't much worse than West, so that can't be "one of the worst decisions". One of those would have be Travis Taylor, Mark Clayton over Aaron Rodgers, or Kyle Boller. Ozzie has only drafted like 7/8 bama guys in the past, the majority of them in the later rounds. The only true bust has been Cody, but he at least as played a did pretty well for one season. Guys we have gotten from Bama include: Mosely, Jarrett Johnson,Le'ron McClain, and Upshaw.

OK, I'll admit I was wrong about us not taking Terrence West in the 3rd round but not about The

Wizard's propensity to take BPAs instead of drafting to fill voids at key positions. I just think we drafted the wrong Terrence, that's all. BTW, could we have taken West in the 2nd round?

Re The Wizard's tendency to draft Crimson Tide players, of the ones you mentioned which ones are

still Ravens? If they were that good, they would still be here. JJ was good but not an All Pro.

Le'Ron McClain? Well, say no more. Upshaw & CJ are both keepers. Yes, Cody has been a bust. I guess

37.5% or 3 out of 8 ain't bad in your book. In mine, it's failure.

[GrimCoconut]

OK, I'll admit I was wrong about us not taking Terrence West in the 3rd round but not about The

Wizard's propensity to take BPAs instead of drafting to fill voids at key positions. I just think we drafted the wrong Terrence, that's all. BTW, could we have taken West in the 2nd round?

Re The Wizard's tendency to draft Crimson Tide players, of the ones you mentioned which ones are

still Ravens? If they were that good, they would still be here. JJ was good but not an All Pro.

Le'Ron McClain? Well, say no more. Upshaw & CJ are both keepers. Yes, Cody has been a bust. I guess

37.5% or 3 out of 8 ain't bad in your book. In mine, it's failure.

Lol, most teams would love to have that many players succeed. Also, we don't draft every Alabama player. If we did, we would have a lot more guys from them. I feel it's a poor observation to just say that Ozzie targets Alabama players. In fact, your number makes NO sense. We've only drafted 7 Alabama players EVER in our history. He's only recently drafted 3 Alabama players in the early rounds, as before that, we drafted all of them in the 4th or sooner. Cody was a 2nd round pick, Upshaw a 2nd round pick and Mosley a 1st round pick. I don't see how Ozzie has this "lovefest with Alabama players" people claim. 

[Ravenslifer]

Lol, most teams would love to have that many players succeed. Also, we don't draft every Alabama player. If we did, we would have a lot more guys from them. I feel it's a poor observation to just say that Ozzie targets Alabama players. In fact, your number makes NO sense. We've only drafted 7 Alabama players EVER in our history. He's only recently drafted 3 Alabama players in the early rounds, as before that, we drafted all of them in the 4th or sooner. Cody was a 2nd round pick, Upshaw a 2nd round pick and Mosley a 1st round pick. I don't see how Ozzie has this "lovefest with Alabama players" people claim. 

 

If anything, it's more like Ozzie, as well as the rest of the league, seem to like taking Nick Saban's Crimson Tide players early on, probably because they all seem so well-coached and pro-ready.  If you throw in Rolando with Ozzie's recent Crimson Tide draft picks, they're all Nick Saban coached players.

[GrimCoconut]

If anything, it's more like Ozzie, as well as the rest of the league, seem to like taking Nick Saban's Crimson Tide players early on, probably because they all seem so well-coached and pro-ready.  If you throw in Rolando with Ozzie's recent Crimson Tide draft picks, they're all Nick Saban coached players.

Yeah, this is hardly an Ozzie Newsome thing. GB took Lacy and Clinton-Dix. Bengals took Andre Smith, AJ McCarron and Dre Kirkpatrick. Seahawks took James Carpenter and Norwood. Bills took Dareus and Kouandjio.  

[mgridda]

The issue really isn't the Bama guys. If you look at the op, many of the Bama picks are the best picks we could have made, which is really saying something because it's highly unlikely to get a pick right. That Le'Ron McClain pick was gold. Mosley is the DPoTY. Jarrett Johnson is still a good football player in this league and was ranked as a top 5 OLB by PFF for his seasons with us. 

 

 

The real pattern of error is our drafting tendencies at WR after round 2:. Ron Johnson, Javin Hunter,  Devard Darling, Clarence Moore, Derek Abney, Demetrius Williams, Yamon Figurs, Marcus Smith, Justin Harper, David Reed, Tandon Doss, Tommy Streeter, Aaron Mellette...

 

 

I mean, call the later rounds a crap shoot all you want. But NONE of the guys we drafted past round 2 at receiver have been successful at all for us. They all were duds. Every single one. That's painful. Call it a crap shoot all you want, but how come it seems like every single team in the NFL has been able to at least find one good wide receiver in rounds 3-7 in the last 13 years?

 

 

Why not us?

 

We must be doing something wrong. We need to re-examine our approach to these skill positions and our late draft strategy.

 

Too many Steve Smiths, TJ Houshmandzadehs, Asante Samuels, Wes Welkers, Brandon Marshalls, Brent Grimes, Tramon Williams, Cortland Finnegans, Corey Grahams, Brandon Carrs, Danny Amendolas, Mike Wallaces, Antonio Browns, Victor Cruzs, Martavius Bryants, and Richard Shermans have gone to other teams.

 

We should look at what Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Cincinnati do to scout those positions at those rounds.

 

 

Lamont Brightful

David Pittman

Derrick Martin

and Chykie Brown all stink, too.

[GrimCoconut]

Well, we did draft Webb in the 3rd round so there is a guy we drafted outside the top two.

[mgridda]

Well, we did draft Webb in the 3rd round so there is a guy we drafted outside the top two.

 

Good point, for some reason when I looked past it in a hurry I thought of Webb as a 2nd rounder. Look at all those bad round 3-7 wide receivers though.

 

 

It's not really the cornerbacks that are so awful. In that list 13 of those are receivers and admittedly only 3 are cornerbacks. I guess we just don't take many cornerbacks late. 

[GrimCoconut]

Good point, for some reason when I looked past it in a hurry I thought of Webb as a 2nd rounder. Look at all those bad round 3-7 wide receivers though.

It's not really the cornerbacks that are so awful. In that list 13 of those are receivers and admittedly only 3 are cornerbacks. I guess we just don't take many cornerbacks late.

We're very successful when we draft CB early. I'm talking like 100% 3/3. We're just very good at drafting them. It's such a crap shoot.

[The Raven]

Good point, for some reason when I looked past it in a hurry I thought of Webb as a 2nd rounder. Look at all those bad round 3-7 wide receivers though.

 

 

It's not really the cornerbacks that are so awful. In that list 13 of those are receivers and admittedly only 3 are cornerbacks. I guess we just don't take many cornerbacks late. 

We're very successful when we draft CB early. I'm talking like 100% 3/3. We're just very good at drafting them. It's such a crap shoot.

 

Really though, I think CB is just so hit or miss, especially in late rounds. I can't say we're necessarily bad at drafting CB. 

 

As far as WR goes, I think we may have had good picks there, but they never got a chance to develop in a real offense with a real QB. Clayton, for example, would have been much better in this current offense with Joe throwing the ball. 

[gabefergy]

The Ravens are pretty good at getting non-skill position players late in the draft, so maybe the draft strategy should be take WRs/DBs/RBs/QBs early, and everything else late.

 

Just on the current team, Yanda and Wagner were great finds on offense, and  McPhee, Brandon Williams, and Tyson are major contributors on defense.

 

There are also a ton of late round guys or UDFAs over the years that have been great, mostly LBs: Adalius Thomas, Jarrett Johnson, Bart Scott, Jameel McClain, Dannell Ellerbe, Arthur Jones, Ed Hartwell.

 

Moral of the story: don't draft LBs early, draft CBs instead.

[ravensnick]

OK, I'll admit I was wrong about us not taking Terrence West in the 3rd round but not about The

Wizard's propensity to take BPAs instead of drafting to fill voids at key positions. I just think we drafted the wrong Terrence, that's all. BTW, could we have taken West in the 2nd round?

Re The Wizard's tendency to draft Crimson Tide players, of the ones you mentioned which ones are

still Ravens? If they were that good, they would still be here. JJ was good but not an All Pro.

Le'Ron McClain? Well, say no more. Upshaw & CJ are both keepers. Yes, Cody has been a bust. I guess

37.5% or 3 out of 8 ain't bad in your book. In mine, it's failure.

West wasn't valuable enough for either the early 3rd or the 3nd. He doesn't even start in Cleveland. Good, not great. Not that much better than Taliaferro and certainly not better than forsett. We needed a saftey and Brooks was worth more than that 3rd rounder. JJ was good, amazing for a 5th rounder. Le'rpn McClain was a great fullback as well a rusher than rushed for slightly less than 1,000 yds one year. Great for a 4th rounder. Upshaw is a great passrusher, but not sack artist (he is the guy that collapses the pocket so others can get sacks). Mosely is a stud. Thats 3 solid player and a stud out of 8 total, most later than the 4th. very good record with Bama guys, as the majority of the draft doesnt produce as expected.

[ravensnick]

The Ravens are pretty good at getting non-skill position players late in the draft, so maybe the draft strategy should be take WRs/DBs/RBs/QBs early, and everything else late.

 

Just on the current team, Yanda and Wagner were great finds on offense, and  McPhee, Brandon Williams, and Tyson are major contributors on defense.

 

There are also a ton of late round guys or UDFAs over the years that have been great, mostly LBs: Adalius Thomas, Jarrett Johnson, Bart Scott, Jameel McClain, Dannell Ellerbe, Arthur Jones, Ed Hartwell.

 

Moral of the story: don't draft LBs early, draft CBs instead.

On the flipside, the top LBS we have taken in the first, Suggs, Mosley, and Lewis, have been top of the league and era (for lewis and suggs).  DL and LB are definitelty something we excell at in late rounds/UDFA however, but that maybe the the system.

[GrimCoconut]

Sorry to revive an old thread but I've been wondering if anyone would've rather we selected Josh Gordon using our 2013 1st or 2nd round pick considering how good he's been for the Browns but also considering his suspensions he's already mounted in the league. It would mean not drafting Elam or Brown, but to be fair, neither player has truly done much to date.

Just wondering what others think. It's definitely something that we perhaps should've done. All three guys have fleas, but Gordon has absurd talent.

[rmcjacket23]

Sorry to revive an old thread but I've been wondering if anyone would've rather we selected Josh Gordon using our 2013 1st or 2nd round pick considering how good he's been for the Browns but also considering his suspensions he's already mounted in the league. It would mean not drafting Elam or Brown, but to be fair, neither player has truly done much to date.

Just wondering what others think. It's definitely something that we perhaps should've done. All three guys have fleas, but Gordon has absurd talent.

Well, no NFL team picked him in the real NFL draft anyways, so its hard to feel bad about not taking him. We saw that same things everybody else saw. Everything else is just hindsight.

[billick]

41st Overall & 21st Overall - Anquan Boldin and Vince Wilfork instead of Kyle Boller.

 

Ravens fans still love young Kyle, and he was daBoy of the Great Brian "offensive guru & QB genius" billick.

[GrimCoconut]

Well, no NFL team picked him in the real NFL draft anyways, so its hard to feel bad about not taking him. We saw that same things everybody else saw. Everything else is just hindsight.

I'm saying we could've spent our 2013 1st or 2nd round picks to take Gordon in the 2012 supplementary draft and I was wondering what others would've thought on that since it's something I haven't heard anyone bring up yet. If you really have no input, then I don't care to hear your opinion. Thanks, bye.