Where we can find that playmaking #1 Receiver

[Ravenslifer]

There are a few receivers in this draft that I think have number 1 potential - I don't think Cooper or White will be in play for us, but either Parker or Strong should be there late first, and I think a guy like Greene or Austin Hill could be in play in the second round.

[BMORE_96]

Last game was the first time I felt Torrey dominated his matchup this season. Whenever Joe looked for him to make a play, he made it. thats the type of performance we'll need to make a playoff push. If Torrey keeps it up, i see his value increasing and us paying up(since mcphee is long gone and no one else looks to be expensive).Imagine a receiving corp with 1.high pick at receiver 2.An aggressive Torrey Smith 3. Steve Smith 4.Michael Campanaro. Baltimore Packers any one?

[ravensnick]

To say Torrey Smith isn't a good receiver  is really pushing it honestly .I don't see how you can really come up with something like that but ok .  I don't consider Torrey Smith to be a bad route runner but does he need to work on his game in that area ? yes he does.

 

I still don't understand how Ravens fans expect Torrey Smith to be this  great route runner by now when we have never asked him to be nothing but deep threat for the past three years.

Compare him to most the receivers in the league. Multiple teams have two wrs on there team clearly more skilled than torrey (Houston, Chicago, Denver, Arizona, Detroit, Green Bay, Tampa Bay off the top of my head). He is subpar for a starting nfl wr. he has skill and value, but overall, he still needs as much work on his game as he did as a rookie. He still has the same problems and inconstientcy. Torrey is a great man, but he isn't a top level wr or even a next level wr. He is a slightly above average #2. 

[ravensnick]

and you base this on what?

 

torrey avg more yards per catch with little to no YAC.

steve avg less yards per catch and has alot of YAC.

 

not to mention torrey smith has drawn alot of PI going deep.

 

it would be nice when people say things they actually provide arguments to support what they saying lol.

Overall productions, the eye ball test. torrey has had a less reception because steve can actually run multiple routes, but he has made more game-changing bombs (Cinny 1, Panthers, almost cinny 2, Bucs, NO to name a few)

[jazz1988]

Compare him to most the receivers in the league. Multiple teams have two wrs on there team clearly more skilled than torrey (Houston, Chicago, Denver, Arizona, Detroit, Green Bay, Tampa Bay off the top of my head). He is subpar for a starting nfl wr. he has skill and value, but overall, he still needs as much work on his game as he did as a rookie. He still has the same problems and inconstientcy. Torrey is a great man, but he isn't a top level wr or even a next level wr. He is a slightly above average #2. 

 

I never said Torrey Smith was top level  wr. You said he wasn't good at all and I disagreed with you. You basically named seven teams that either had receiver  different skill sets than  Torrey smith because they were way taller than Torrey or overall been in offense that required their receivers to be more than deep threats. Since you want to mention those teams what about the Jaguars, Vikings, Panthers, Titans,Seahawks,Rams, Bills, and Rams

[Tru11]

ravensnick, on 26 Nov 2014 - 03:04 AM, said:

Overall productions, the eye ball test. torrey has had a less reception because steve can actually run multiple routes, but he has made more game-changing bombs (Cinny 1, Panthers, almost cinny 2, Bucs, NO to name a few)

 

eye ball test?

 

thats completly suggestive and biased lol.

 

when you are target less, chances are you will have less receptions.

 

 

you are now counting almost plays for steve smith?

think torrey has way more almost deep bombs then steve smith lol

 

Actually torrey has alot more  game changing bombs when you factor in all the PI he has drawn going deep lol.

 

yards per catch is a stat that doesent lie and when you link it with yards after the catch , you get a pretty good idea how someone is picking up yards.

 

im pretty sure you are trolling and just making up stuff to provoke a discussion.

[3-4ravdef509]

Torrey seemed to be fired up on Monday night...he's gotta keep that fire going and do it against legit corners and safeties now. I believe in you Torrey but you gotta do it, not just talk about it and only blow up bad secondaries.

[ravensnick]

eye ball test?

 

thats completly suggestive and biased lol.

 

when you are target less, chances are you will have less receptions.

 

 

you are now counting almost plays for steve smith?

think torrey has way more almost deep bombs then steve smith lol

 

Actually torrey has alot more  game changing bombs when you factor in all the PI he has drawn going deep lol.

 

yards per catch is a stat that doesent lie and when you link it with yards after the catch , you get a pretty good idea how someone is picking up yards.

 

im pretty sure you are trolling and just making up stuff to provoke a discussion.

Not an almost play, the play the refs robbed steve on the flop that would have won us the game. It was an amazing play. Yards per catch is a massive lie of a stats. If you have a WR that actually catches the ball besides deep bombs and a WR that will catch a bomb ever once and only does that, the WR that only catches bomb is gonna look better YPC wise. Torrey is have a pretty bad year for what I'm sure he wants to get paid. He'll get WR 2 money from us, but someone will probably over pay him. 

 

This isn't even to mention Kubiak prefers a more of a mid yardage passing system with the occasional deep Play action pass. Not a great system for Torrey, but a great one for Steve. 

 

There is no way you can say Torrey is have a good year. He has had two maybe three good game, against extremely terrible secondaries. It's pretty easy to shut him down. Put a physical corner that has decent speed and torrey is done for the day.

[ravensnick]

I never said Torrey Smith was top level  wr. You said he wasn't good at all and I disagreed with you. You basically named seven teams that either had receiver  different skill sets than  Torrey smith because they were way taller than Torrey or overall been in offense that required their receivers to be more than deep threats. Since you want to mention those teams what about the Jaguars, Vikings, Panthers, Titans,Seahawks,Rams, Bills, and Rams

I think as of right now I would rather have Kendall Wright, Kelvin Benjamin, Sammy Watkins over Torrey. Wright would be a great fit for Kubiaks system as a possession type guy. Benjamin and Watkins are just rooks, yet already great players. 

[Tru11]

Not an almost play, the play the refs robbed steve on the flop that would have won us the game. It was an amazing play. Yards per catch is a massive lie of a stats. If you have a WR that actually catches the ball besides deep bombs and a WR that will catch a bomb ever once and only does that, the WR that only catches bomb is gonna look better YPC wise. Torrey is have a pretty bad year for what I'm sure he wants to get paid. He'll get WR 2 money from us, but someone will probably over pay him. 

 

This isn't even to mention Kubiak prefers a more of a mid yardage passing system with the occasional deep Play action pass. Not a great system for Torrey, but a great one for Steve. 

 

There is no way you can say Torrey is have a good year. He has had two maybe three good game, against extremely terrible secondaries. It's pretty easy to shut him down. Put a physical corner that has decent speed and torrey is done for the day.

 

still trollin i see with just saying stuff with out backing things up lol.

 

the statistics say he is having a year similiar to his previous years.

 

let me break it down.

 

carreer avg :

16 games 55 rec 114 targets 941 yards 17,2 avg 6 TD 40 first downs

 

project in 16 games this season

46 rec 91 targets 791 yards 17.0 avg 9 TD 37 first downs.

 

so he has a 21% decrease in targets yet only a 17% decrease in catches , 16% decrease in yards ,50% increase in TD and only a 8,5% decrease in getting first downs.

 

id love to know what stats you have that supports your claim of him having a down year lol.

 

Also is the bolded part an argument that you only use for torrey or do you use it for everyone else?

There are more players on this team that had their stats padded against terrible defenses.

Take those stats away and they would look far worse lol.

[jazz1988]

I think as of right now I would rather have Kendall Wright, Kelvin Benjamin, Sammy Watkins over Torrey. Wright would be a great fit for Kubiaks system as a possession type guy. Benjamin and Watkins are just rooks, yet already great players. 

 

 

But you clearly said you could name two receivers from each team that are better than Torrey Smith not just one. Other than Kelvin Benjamin it's not like  Watkins or Wright production have been way better than Torrey Smith so far. I don't  consider Benjamin and Watkins great players at this moment but they have been good .Come back to me when they able to make some noise next year because they could end up like Keenan Allen  with a down year in their second season in The NFl.

 

I'm not here to  argue that Torrey Smith is a elite receiver but he definitely is good. He's a play maker and has the speed to take the top off the defense. Having a receiver that is a threat to take the top off the defense is great to have because it only opens up the field for other receivers.

[ravensnick]

But you clearly said you could name two receivers from each team that are better than Torrey Smith not just one. Other than Kelvin Benjamin it's not like  Watkins or Wright production have been way better than Torrey Smith so far. I don't  consider Benjamin and Watkins great players at this moment but they have been good .Come back to me when they able to make some noise next year because they could end up like Keenan Allen  with a down year in their second season in The NFl.

 

I'm not here to  argue that Torrey Smith is a elite receiver but he definitely is good. He's a play maker and has the speed to take the top off the defense. Having a receiver that is a threat to take the top off the defense is great to have because it only opens up the field for other receivers.

Good is relative to the NFL. By any standard he is a world class football player, but lacking when compared to other elite/great football players around the league. 

 

When I say he isn't good, I don't mean he sucks. I mean there is a group of elite (top 5), great (Top 12ish), good (top 25-30ish) wr and he doesn't land in one of those groups currently.

[ravensnick]

still trollin i see with just saying stuff with out backing things up lol.

 

the statistics say he is having a year similiar to his previous years.

 

let me break it down.

 

carreer avg :

16 games 55 rec 114 targets 941 yards 17,2 avg 6 TD 40 first downs

 

project in 16 games this season

46 rec 91 targets 791 yards 17.0 avg 9 TD 37 first downs.

 

so he has a 21% decrease in targets yet only a 17% decrease in catches , 16% decrease in yards ,50% increase in TD and only a 8,5% decrease in getting first downs.

 

id love to know what stats you have that supports your claim of him having a down year lol.

 

Also is the bolded part an argument that you only use for torrey or do you use it for everyone else?

There are more players on this team that had their stats padded against terrible defenses.

Take those stats away and they would look far worse lol.

Your own stats show he is having a down year. He is projected to get targeted about 20 times less than his average. That means he's just not getting open. Even with his years with boldin, he got more targets, so you really can't use than excuse. He having a similar catch rate, in a less used role, which means he isn't as important to the team. Sure, the TDs are increased but all but two of them have been vs the crappy NFC South. He is having a down year.

 

Nevertheless, he can rebound. I'd be find with a team friendly deal, especially after the NO game. But, I just don't want to overpay him. 

[Tru11]

Your own stats show he is having a down year. He is projected to get targeted about 20 times less than his average. That means he's just not getting open. Even with his years with boldin, he got more targets, so you really can't use than excuse. He having a similar catch rate, in a less used role, which means he isn't as important to the team. Sure, the TDs are increased but all but two of them have been vs the crappy NFC South. He is having a down year.

 

Nevertheless, he can rebound. I'd be find with a team friendly deal, especially after the NO game. But, I just don't want to overpay him. 

 

not 20 times but 20 % lol

big difference between those 2.

 

also him not getting open is just 1 of the possible reasons.

perhaps it could be scheme wise with emphasis on shot to intermediate routes and not bombs.

perhaps it has to with more options in the passing game.

perhaps defense scheme more for.

perhaps flacco is going more to his progressions instead of just bombing it deep.

perhaps he isent the primary hot read anymore.

perhaps kubiak mixes up the gameplan per week depending on who they face.

 

well there are probaly more factors but i guess its easier to just go with the fan favorite lol

 

again you are just stating your opinion with providing actual facts.

 

the stats say he isent having a down year.

 

you say he does.

 

well explain why you are right and the stats are wrong lol

 

the fact you dont seem to know the difference between 20 times and 20% kinda throws some red flags though lol

 

your opinion aint a fact .....

[ravensnick]

not 20 times but 20 % lol

big difference between those 2.

 

also him not getting open is just 1 of the possible reasons.

perhaps it could be scheme wise with emphasis on shot to intermediate routes and not bombs.

perhaps it has to with more options in the passing game.

perhaps defense scheme more for.

perhaps flacco is going more to his progressions instead of just bombing it deep.

perhaps he isent the primary hot read anymore.

perhaps kubiak mixes up the gameplan per week depending on who they face.

 

well there are probaly more factors but i guess its easier to just go with the fan favorite lol

 

again you are just stating your opinion with providing actual facts.

 

the stats say he isent having a down year.

 

you say he does.

 

well explain why you are right and the stats are wrong lol

 

the fact you dont seem to know the difference between 20 times and 20% kinda throws some red flags though lol

 

your opinion aint a fact .....

Torrey is getting targeted with 20 less throws, is what I meant. Stats do say he is having a down year. He hasn't be a huge actor in the offense. Are you going to argue that if a guy normally gets targeted 150 but then gets targeted 70 (a little bit more extreme) is "not having a down year."

[Tru11]

Torrey is getting targeted with 20 less throws, is what I meant. Stats do say he is having a down year. He hasn't be a huge actor in the offense. Are you going to argue that if a guy normally gets targeted 150 but then gets targeted 70 (a little bit more extreme) is "not having a down year."

 

he in on pace to have his best season TD  wise.

the first downs he gain is pretty much on pace with his career avg.

his ypc is pretty much on pace with his career avg.

his catch to target ratio is on pace with his career AVG .

 

he does have less catches and less yards but it goes hand in hand with less targets.

he does draw a good amount of PI on defenses.

 

just because he is target less doesent mean he is having a down year.

i already stated numerous reasons that could contributed to this.

 

i believe is a combination of those reasons that made him see less targets.

 

seems alot more reasonable then just throw it all on him not being open every time flacco drops back to pass lol.

 

also not a huge factor???

 

he is #1 in receiving TD on the team

he is #2 on the team in receiving yards.

 

he accounts for 33% of all receiving TD.

he accounts for 20% of all receiving yards.

he accounts for 19% of all ravens TD

he accounts for 13% of all ravens offense yards.

he is #2 in targets.

he is #1 in YPC.

he is #3 in yards from scrimmage including rbs.

he is #3 in scoring behind tucker  and forsett

 

im not sure how you can say he isent a huge factor lol.