11/4/14 Roster Moves (merged)

[gabefergy]

Agreed however I don't believe Pees is the coordinator we need. He needs to get the most out of his players and he's shown time after time that he's not 100 percent capable of accomplishing that. I guess I'm longing for the days when Offenses feared our front 7. Nobody is afraid of us anymore

Teams were afraid of us two weeks ago. The only thing that changed was one injury to a key player, who should hopefully be back after the bye.

Saying Pees doesnt get the most out of his players is asinine.

[Maryland]

About the only thing I like about this is that it shows how the FO/Coaches are willing to admit that they have a problem and they are trying to find a solution. They are willing to move on from two veterans in Franks and Brown and give a UDFA, Tramain Jacobs, a chance. This same philosophy about moving on from your mistakes is what makes Seattle so appealing to UDFAs: if the team needs you, and if you play well, you will make the roster and get snaps, even if it means cutting a veteran or someone who was drafted. I hope future UDFAs look at this move and see the opportunity for playing time. 

 

They are also doing this at the right time. Give your new guys (well, not really new in Gorrer's case) a chance to play against a bad team in the Titans. Analyze the tape, work on fixing their mistakes over the BYE, and come into NO with a better team than the one you had on week 9. 

[pitchblack_20]

as long as these dudes practice and play hard they should have plenty of opportunities to make plays because we all know they are gonna get picked on.

[pitchblack_20]

Agreed however I don't believe Pees is the coordinator we need. He needs to get the most out of his players and he's shown time after time that he's not 100 percent capable of accomplishing that. I guess I'm longing for the days when Offenses feared our front 7. Nobody is afraid of us anymore

the front 7 is dominant. it's the secondary that continues to get ate up.

Edit: But I do want a more aggressive DC but it all starts with getting playmakers in the back end.

[jazz1988]

I dont see how that makes a difference. The running game is good. Daniels is a very reliable TE. The OL has been outstanding for most of the year. Torrey Smith has been fine as a number 2 WR and there have been contributions from other WRs as well.

Im not going to let one game change my opinion of the team that has looked like one of the best in the league for a large stretch of the season.

 

Gary Kubiak has done a good job with our offense but what I don't like is so far he hasn't really shown he can mix it up to counter against  press man coverage. When we signed Gary Kubiak i was expecting alot more creativity in the passing game  and I have seen that at times but not often.

[Alaska Alaska!]

I dont see how that makes a difference. The running game is good. Daniels is a very reliable TE. The OL has been outstanding for most of the year. Torrey Smith has been fine as a number 2 WR and there have been contributions from other WRs as well.

Im not going to let one game change my opinion of the team that has looked like one of the best in the league for a large stretch of the season.

But it hasn't just been one game.  It's been 4 games so far (2 against CIN,  1 against PIT, and 1 against Colts). 

[Petteri Moilanen]

But it hasn't just been one game.  It's been 4 games so far (2 against CIN,  1 against PIT, and 1 against Colts).

I think gabefergy means that all the other games were close ones except the last one. But yeah, only winning counts as a plus.

 

[jazz1988]

Your absolutely correct. Many CBs are struggling around the league early. Hell the Jets looked like they wiffed on 2 first round Corners in Wilson and Dee Milner. But at least they can say they tried..and at the very least u get the Jimmy Smith curve where it takes a couple years to finally get it and then u got ur future CB......but its kinda hard to find your CB of the future....when u dont draft a CB.

 

I read somewhere and I think it was cbssports.com which said most teams weren't really high on this year rookie draft prospect at the cornerback position atleast those that  were second rounders or lower. The Jets kinda had to draft  Miliner since they traded away Revis to the Buccs and Millner was considered to be the best cornerback in the 2013 draft .

 

When The Ravens drafted Jimmy Smith  the in first round they also drafted Chykie Brown in fifth round in 2011 then in 2012 they went on to draft Asa Jackon in the fifth round. I remember Eric Decosta(could have been Ozzie) saying The Ravens don't like to draft cornerbacks lower than the third round so they probably really like the upside from Asa and Chykie and figured these guys could be solid starters one day. 

 

They Ravens should have done more for cornerback position either in free agency or the draft but they most have really liked the cornerbacks already on the roster enough to totally ignore the position which is understandable in my opinion.

[rmcjacket23]

Agreed however I don't believe Pees is the coordinator we need. He needs to get the most out of his players and he's shown time after time that he's not 100 percent capable of accomplishing that. I guess I'm longing for the days when Offenses feared our front 7. Nobody is afraid of us anymore

I wouldn't say fear of our front 7 is an issue. Teams know they have trouble running on us, and they know that we can get to the QB (although not as frequently as we would like).

 

What teams used to fear was the Ryan/Pagano like schemes that were based on blitzing frequently, which meant bringing at least 5-6 guys. Realistically, they had to do that, because a lot of our talent then was quite limited.

 

I would point out that a lot of the present day "elite" defenses are based on the premise of NOT blitzing. A team like Seattle, arguably the most feared defense in the league, was one of the least blitzing teams in the league. They can create pressure with 4 guys, and allow their elite level secondary to do what they do.

 

We don't have that luxury, for obvious reasons.

[757RavensFan]

Regarding Jimmy Smith, I would love to know what being out a "few weeks" means?!?! Let's not forget that Webb initially was slated to be out a "few weeks" when he injured his back in TC. That turned into months and 3 games missed. I hope we don't get that same talk about Smith.

[757RavensFan]

Would it have mattered in 2014 if they did draft a corner in the early rounds?

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but 2014 Chykie Brown = 2011 Jimmy Smith (and even mostly 2012 Jimmy Smith). Very, very, very little difference between the two players.

I disagree. Comparing Jimmy's rookie year performance to Chykie's 4th year is not fair to Jimmy. Jimmy was relatively injured his 1st year and there are many rookie corners this year balling this season. If you're going to make any comparison, it should be Jimmy's rookie year with a 2014 rookie CB. Comparing Chykie's 4th year performance to Jimmy's 1st year makes Chykie's cut even more understandable.

[Moderator 3]

Note: the Jim Harbaugh discussion has been moved to the appropriate thread http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/60400-2014-2015-coaching-carousel/

[BmoreBird22]

They've both been horrible but C Brown has been a little better although in less amount of snaps.

I'd find it hard to say which has been better since they were both abysmal

[orangle123]

Definitely good moves in my opinion.  My only apprehension comes from the mystery of what their immediate impact will be.  Long term, definitely a solid move.  For the Titans and Saints?  We will see.  I do think that the coaches made a REALLY smart move doing this before the bye week.  Also, Gorrer is a former Ravens and *can't remember his name* is from the P.S, so they should both need little time to acclimate to the system.  Like many others have said, they can't be much worse than we have been lately, let's at least shoot for upside now.

[rmcjacket23]

I disagree. Comparing Jimmy's rookie year performance to Chykie's 4th year is not fair to Jimmy. Jimmy was relatively injured his 1st year and there are many rookie corners this year balling this season. If you're going to make any comparison, it should be Jimmy's rookie year with a 2014 rookie CB. Comparing Chykie's 4th year performance to Jimmy's 1st year makes Chykie's cut even more understandable.

No, its completely a fair comparison, because the point is that rookie corners generally struggle in this league. So, yes, in terms of on-field production, regardless of whether Jimmy was hurt or not (and he still played 12 games that season), a rookie corner would probably be expected to contribute about as much as Chykie Brown did this season.

 

As a rookie, we pretty much limited Jimmy to nickel packages, which means he's not even on the field half the time.

 

Point is... a rookie corner is likely to solve that problem 2-3 years in the future, not the first season. Heck, there's no shortage of first round corners who don't even solve that problem ever, because they turn out to be garbage. If we had used a first round pick on a corner this offseason, depending on who it was (if it was, say, Darqueze Dennard, who has struggled terribly), then our secondary would be just as bad as it is now, and we wouldn't have CJ Mosley. So for 2014, what problem does retroactively drafting a corner solve for that year?

 

To me, the answer is no problem. Doesn't mean we shouldn't draft a corner, but it means that fans thinking drafting 2 corners in next years draft is all of the sudden going to make our secondary wonderful in a single offseason is naive in my opinion.

[acranfor]

No, its completely a fair comparison, because the point is that rookie corners generally struggle in this league. So, yes, in terms of on-field production, regardless of whether Jimmy was hurt or not (and he still played 12 games that season), a rookie corner would probably be expected to contribute about as much as Chykie Brown did this season.

 

As a rookie, we pretty much limited Jimmy to nickel packages, which means he's not even on the field half the time.

 

Point is... a rookie corner is likely to solve that problem 2-3 years in the future, not the first season. Heck, there's no shortage of first round corners who don't even solve that problem ever, because they turn out to be garbage. If we had used a first round pick on a corner this offseason, depending on who it was (if it was, say, Darqueze Dennard, who has struggled terribly), then our secondary would be just as bad as it is now, and we wouldn't have CJ Mosley. So for 2014, what problem does retroactively drafting a corner solve for that year?

 

To me, the answer is no problem. Doesn't mean we shouldn't draft a corner, but it means that fans thinking drafting 2 corners in next years draft is all of the sudden going to make our secondary wonderful in a single offseason is naive in my opinion.

Exactly. We would more than likely be in the same position we are now if we would have drafted a CB this year. Maybe only Jason Verrett could be an argument here.

 

As for FA, there were plenty of high price CBs in Talib, Revis, Flowers, Graham, DRC, Browner; but the Ravens at the time were looking for a 3rd CB. It would not have been financially responsible to sign one of these guys when we already have Jimmy (expecting a contract) and Webb.

 

Webb has underperformed and Jimmy is hurt (as well Asa), but that was unforeseen...This has been beaten to death. Please think people!

[ravensfan160]

Does anyone have any insight into why the Lions cut Gorrer? All I've heard is they needed the roster spot which makes sense except he was their nickel corner. Its not like he was at the bottom of the depth chart. I don't get it.

[1/28/01]

Lateral moves, but like others have said, SOMETHING needed to be done. Don't get your hopes up for this to change really anything with the secondary, though.

[pitchblack_20]

Lateral moves, but like others have said, SOMETHING needed to be done. Don't get your hopes up for this to change really anything with the secondary, though.

Please let this end up being false. Watching Franks get abused week after week was starting to become painful. Why is everyone so quick to write him off though ? I'm not saying he's going to come in and light it up but maybe he will, who knows ?

[jazz1988]

Does anyone have any insight into why the Lions cut Gorrer? All I've heard is they needed the roster spot which makes sense except he was their nickel corner. Its not like he was at the bottom of the depth chart. I don't get it.

 

He was their nickel cornerback because their original nickel corner wasn't healthy until recently. Some Lions fans seem to question the move .

[rmw10]

Well, the Giants claimed Chykie Brown, so good luck to them.

[GrimCoconut]

Well, the Giants claimed Chykie Brown, so good luck to them.

Wow, surprised they claimed him. I guess when you're desperate anything will do.

[BmoreBird22]

Wow, surprised they claimed him. I guess when you're desperate anything will do.

Haven't they lost their top three corners to injury? Or their one, three, four, I guess

[GrimCoconut]

Haven't they lost their top three corners to injury? Or their one, three, four, I guess

They have DRC IIRC. I'm not sure whether he's considered their #1 or #2 since I don't watch them enough.

[Moderator 3]

Well, the Giants claimed Chykie Brown, so good luck to them.

We've seen it time and time again: one team's trash is another team's treasure.

[ravensnick]

No, its completely a fair comparison, because the point is that rookie corners generally struggle in this league. So, yes, in terms of on-field production, regardless of whether Jimmy was hurt or not (and he still played 12 games that season), a rookie corner would probably be expected to contribute about as much as Chykie Brown did this season.

 

As a rookie, we pretty much limited Jimmy to nickel packages, which means he's not even on the field half the time.

 

Point is... a rookie corner is likely to solve that problem 2-3 years in the future, not the first season. Heck, there's no shortage of first round corners who don't even solve that problem ever, because they turn out to be garbage. If we had used a first round pick on a corner this offseason, depending on who it was (if it was, say, Darqueze Dennard, who has struggled terribly), then our secondary would be just as bad as it is now, and we wouldn't have CJ Mosley. So for 2014, what problem does retroactively drafting a corner solve for that year?

 

To me, the answer is no problem. Doesn't mean we shouldn't draft a corner, but it means that fans thinking drafting 2 corners in next years draft is all of the sudden going to make our secondary wonderful in a single offseason is naive in my opinion.

Not fair at all and completely wrong. First off, Jimmy simply had better physical gifts than Chykie could dream of. His floor was always higher. Second, multiple rookie corners: Jason verrett, kyle fuller, EJ Gaines, Roby, Dontae Johnson, Jimme Ward have played pretty well as rookie this year (Fuller, Verrett, and Gaines playing excellently). Thirdly, one of the reason we limited Jimmy early on wasn't his fault, but the talent above him. We had prime Webb, who played at a Pro Bowl Level and was certainly a top 5-10 CB at that time. We also had Cary Williams, who while prone toi mistakes, was still a solid player. Rookies are going to take time to get used to the league. This rookie corner won't be ask to be the #1, probably not even the #2. 

[ravensnick]

They have DRC IIRC. I'm not sure whether he's considered their #1 or #2 since I don't watch them enough.

And Prince. 

[ravensnick]

Haven't they lost their top three corners to injury? Or their one, three, four, I guess

they lost their one and two for the season.

[rmcjacket23]

Not fair at all and completely wrong. First off, Jimmy simply had better physical gifts than Chykie could dream of. His floor was always higher. Second, multiple rookie corners: Jason verrett, kyle fuller, EJ Gaines, Roby, Dontae Johnson, Jimme Ward have played pretty well as rookie this year (Fuller, Verrett, and Gaines playing excellently). Thirdly, one of the reason we limited Jimmy early on wasn't his fault, but the talent above him. We had prime Webb, who played at a Pro Bowl Level and was certainly a top 5-10 CB at that time. We also had Cary Williams, who while prone toi mistakes, was still a solid player. Rookies are going to take time to get used to the league. This rookie corner won't be ask to be the #1, probably not even the #2. 

Except in this season, he would have been asked to be #2, basically for the whole season. Webb missed the first few games, so at the very least that rookie is going to be the 3rd corner, and knowing now that Jimmy and Asa are both out, that makes him the #2 corner. The only way he's not the #2 corner is if you imply that he wouldn't win that spot over somebody like Chykie, in which case you're kind of making my point for me.

 

I specifically went out of my way to mention that its POSSIBLE that we would have gotten a corner who played well, but just like you provided examples of one's that are, I could provide equal number that aren't. Given that Gilbert and Fuller were taken before we even had the chance to take them, I don't consider them options. We could have ended up with a Verrett or Roby, or we could have ended up with a Dennard. You've had guys like Milliner and Hayden from 2013 and Claiborne and Kirkpatrick from 2012 who were first round corners that look horrible at the moment. And Ward isn't a rookie, and he barely played his rookie season to begin with.

 

The reason my comparison is completely fair is because it doesn't matter what Jimmy's floor/ceiling is, nor does it matter what Chykie Brown's floor/ceiling is. Fans on these boards aren't interested in finding a corner who will be good in 2016 or 2017. They want a great corner right now. They want a guy who walks off the bus and dominates. As I stated, finding that in year 1 in the draft is essentially a crap shoot. We found a great corner in round 1, and he didn't become that until year 3.

 

Make no mistake... we probably take a corner high in the draft this coming offseason, he probably is a mediocre or even below average player in his rookie season, and these same fans will then complain that the FO didn't do a good enough job.

[Ricky Raven]

Ok, I understand that when you blitz real heavy on defense that you put A LOT of pressure on your cornerbacks.  I have noticed in the last two weeks that we really haven't been getting after the QB.  Now I know the Bengals do/did a lot of short, quick throws against us so our pressure was irrelevant. But even on the pass plays where they didn't do that we weren't getting pressure. We certainly didn't get any against the Steelers either. It seems like the philosophy is "well, our CB's aren't good enough to play man when we blitz, so lets just send 3 or 4 guys". When in the end.. we still get picked apart anyway? We give up huge chunk yards anyway, why not try blitzing a lot more. Yes I know Smith is out but we have possibly the best front seven in football to where if Pees calls the right blitz's we can get there fast enough to not let our corners get burnt. The odds of them getting torched are more likely when they have to cover for six seconds.  Thoughts?