IS Cap Hell Worth It?

[redrum52]

Ok. This might be stupid and let me also say, I'm no cap expect like others here. Some may think I'm over reacting to the loss, but I've thought about this since Rice was cut. I think we should re-sign Jimmy and accept our fate by just getting rid of bad contracts. If Ngata doesn't re-sign for a reasonable number, send him on his way. Cut Webb and rebuild through the draft. As far as Torrey, I have no idea how those negotiations go between the 2 sides. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing him on another team because for whatever reason I think he will succeed, but he's struggling with us. Everyone keeps saying Joe is going to restructure, but what if he doesn't? He has NO reason to work something out with the organization and honestly has the upperhand in the situation. I'm not saying cut him, but this situation has the potential to get ugly when his cap hit really begins to spike. Pitta might never play again and has now missed his first 2 seasons after getting his contract. Monroe? LMAO. That's all he gets.

My point is, if this is the product we're getting, maybe we should just clear our cap for the future. In doing so, just pick up the higher draft picks in the process while allowing the younger guys to play and see what we have.

Oh yeah, Jacoby would be gone too. It's time to rethink our philosophy on receivers.

[pep_meister]

Ok. This might be stupid and let me also say, I'm no cap expect like others here. Some may think I'm over reacting to the loss, but I've thought about this since Rice was cut. I think we should re-sign Jimmy and accept our fate by just getting rid of bad contracts. If Ngata doesn't re-sign for a reasonable number, send him on his way. Cut Webb and rebuild through the draft. As far as Torrey, I have no idea how those negotiations go between the 2 sides. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing him on another team because for whatever reason I think he will succeed, but he's struggling with us. Everyone keeps saying Joe is going to restructure, but what if he doesn't? He has NO reason to work something out with the organization and honestly has the upperhand in the situation. I'm not saying cut him, but this situation has the potential to get ugly when his cap hit really begins to spike. Pitta might never play again and has now missed his first 2 seasons after getting his contract. Monroe? LMAO. That's all he gets.

My point is, if this is the product we're getting, maybe we should just clear our cap for the future. In doing so, just pick up the higher draft picks in the process while allowing the younger guys to play and see what we have.

Oh yeah, Jacoby would be gone too. It's time to rethink our philosophy on receivers.

maybe flacco would take a cap hit if the money he is freeing up went to the calvin johnsons of the league lol. wishful thinking.i do agree though... jimmy has to come back no matter what. #1 priority.

[BSHU_Miami]

When Ozzie did a clean sweep in 2010 (I think)...Mason, Willis, Heap and someone else, It was WW4, but it worked out...Who knows.

[Willbacker]

Ok. This might be stupid and let me also say, I'm no cap expect like others here. Some may think I'm over reacting to the loss, but I've thought about this since Rice was cut. I think we should re-sign Jimmy and accept our fate by just getting rid of bad contracts. If Ngata doesn't re-sign for a reasonable number, send him on his way. Cut Webb and rebuild through the draft. As far as Torrey, I have no idea how those negotiations go between the 2 sides. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing him on another team because for whatever reason I think he will succeed, but he's struggling with us. Everyone keeps saying Joe is going to restructure, but what if he doesn't? He has NO reason to work something out with the organization and honestly has the upperhand in the situation. I'm not saying cut him, but this situation has the potential to get ugly when his cap hit really begins to spike. Pitta might never play again and has now missed his first 2 seasons after getting his contract. Monroe? LMAO. That's all he gets.

My point is, if this is the product we're getting, maybe we should just clear our cap for the future. In doing so, just pick up the higher draft picks in the process while allowing the younger guys to play and see what we have.

Oh yeah, Jacoby would be gone too. It's time to rethink our philosophy on receivers.

 

If he wants to keep winning he has a reason. lol. but I agree with you about the contracts they're just so signing bonus happy it kills you when you cut em. How about putting some performance clauses in some of these contracts or some language that can protect you against injury. Nope dole out the signing bonuses then extend as needed.

[tolucaraven]

You have move Webb to FS. Sign Jimmy Smith and draft a CB. Torrey Smith isnt worth much. But one fair question does Joe make others better? Like premium Qbs do? Webb would be a really good FS, he cant move and cut anymore like he used to keep up with WRs as a corner. But he has great instincts to be a FS. Use Webbs money to be a FS and go out and get a new CB next year.

One thing else after a Raven WR runs his route he stops, except for Steve Smith at times. Thats on the coaching staff.

[redrum52]

If he wants to keep winning he has a reason. lol. but I agree with you about the contracts they're just so signing bonus happy it kills you when you cut em. How about putting some performance clauses in some of these contracts or some language that can protect you against injury. Nope dole out the signing bonuses then extend as needed.

That's why I'm saying make a conscious effort to get rid of people and suck it up that year. The next year you should be in position with decent cap space and most likely higher draft picks. Corner and receiver is in desperate need of help. No idea what happens with Torrey which could leave us needing two starting wrs considering SS has maybe 1 more year left here.

[tolucaraven]

That's why I'm saying make a conscious effort to get rid of people and suck it up that year. The next year you should be in position with decent cap space and most likely higher draft picks. Corner and receiver is in

desperate need of help. No idea what happens with Torrey which could leave us needing two starting wrs considering SS has maybe 1 more year left here.[/quote

Losing Torrey Smith and Jones might be addition by subtraction.]

[pep_meister]

If he wants to keep winning he has a reason. lol. but I agree with you about the contracts they're just so signing bonus happy it kills you when you cut em. How about putting some performance clauses in some of these contracts or some language that can protect you against injury. Nope dole out the signing bonuses then extend as needed.

I don't get why we dont do more performance incentives.

[wademan2636]

There are a bunch of things that need to happen.

 

1.  Jacoby has to be gone.  He's not worth the money we're paying him, and we can just draft a kick returner.

 

2.  Ngata needs to either A.  restructure, or B. leave.  Jernigan has played at an extremely high level this year, and he looks like the future of that position.  Also, we have yet to see what Urban has to offer (I think KLM is a bust), and we could always draft someone at that position or replace through free agency.  Ngata is 30 at a very physically demanding position, and I just don't see him playing at the level he is playing right now in the future.  

 

3.  Re-evaluate Webb.  Should he be a FS?  Should he restructure?  Or is he a waste of a roster spot?  Webb is in limbo atm, and we need to figure out his role.  He is no longer a shutdown corner, but could possibly have a role in another way.  Figure this out ASAP.

 

4.  RE-SIGN JIMMY ASAP!!!!!!!!  This needs to happen to ensure future success.  The Ravens have not hit on a ton of picks lately (minus Jimmy and Mosley), so it's important to keep players like Jimmy around.  He is still at a very good age, and he does not have the brutal, extensive injury history that Webb did when we gave Webb the big contract.  Jimmy is worth top corner money.

 

5.  Evaluate Pierce and Arthur Brown in terms of the future.  If Pierce and Brown are not in the future plans, trade them for draft picks.  Both of them have enough value to net at least 2 picks total.  I could see a team trading a 4th or 5th rounder for Pierce, and maybe a 5th or 6th rounder for Brown.  

 

6.  Extend Osemele's contract.  Next year is his last year under his rookie contract, and we need to get him for a good price now, before he plays into a much larger contract.  He should be second on our list this summer after Jimmy.

 

7.  Pick a position for Elam and stick with it.  Elam's development has been stunted by the constant position changes and confusion.  He is not a smart enough guy to be able to handle these as a youngster.  If we kept him at 1 position, however, I think he could be a solid starter.  I like the future with Will Hill at FS and Elam finally able to settle down at SS.  That way, we wouldn't need to derp around with wayyyy too many safeties on the roster.

 

8.  Nail the 2015 draft.  We need players specifically at 3 positions: WR, TE, and CB.  Our team (besides Steve Smith) is filled with #3 and #4 WRs.  Torrey is a #3, and the rest of the guys are #4s.  Camp has the potential to be a good slot receiver, but he has been injured wayyy too much.  We need to land a good starting WR to complement Steve Smith and give us another reliable option.  TE is necessary because Pitta (if he's smart) will never play another snap in the NFL, and Daniels has been an injury risk for his entire career.  While Gillmore has been good for us, he is not the explosive #1 TE that the Ravens need.  He is a solid #2 TE with good hands and good blocking.  The Ravens need an explosive threat at TE (sort of like what dickson was supposed to be before he became a bust).  And the need for a CB is obvious, because we have trash there.  Webb is no longer competent, and the rest of the corners (besides Jimmy) are career special teamers and reserves.

 

9 (final).  Make a change at Defensive Coordinator.  Pees has been a decent D-coordinator, and he has improved in recent weeks, but I think that the defense could still be playing better.  Giving up 6 TDs to Ben is unacceptable, especially since a bunch of them were because of breakdowns in ineffective zone coverage schemes.  Pees has good ideas, but he doesn't know how to execute them, so we end up giving up big plays.  We need a coordinator that uses our personnel to the best of their abilities.  

 

So that's what I think the Ravens need to do in order to fix the cap and fix the team.

[Ravens1991]

Another guy we need to look at contract wise is Daryl Smith.  two good ILB is the ultimate luxury and he seems to have regressed from last year. Also a ton of $ will be tied up with Rice and Pitta deals and we probably won't get an ounce of production from either in 2015. That will probably effect our plans.

[Willbacker]

That's why I'm saying make a conscious effort to get rid of people and suck it up that year. The next year you should be in position with decent cap space and most likely higher draft picks. Corner and receiver is in desperate need of help. No idea what happens with Torrey which could leave us needing two starting wrs considering SS has maybe 1 more year left here.

Shoooo I went to over the overthecap. com to see what the salary structures look like and I'm telling you it's butt ugly. Cutting Piita,Monroe,Zuttah,Suugs or Doom would actually cost us more money against the cap than supply us cap relief and we're already dealing with Rice's 9.5 hit. Not saying they're uncuttable but we'd be paying the price next year and thats for sure. Suggs,Monroe and Pitta would all be 6.6 mil cap hits apiece. Webb would save 2 mil but we'd have 10 mil in dead money. He's a 12 mil cap hit(mainly cuz of the unnessassary stupid extension that Oz handed out earlier) but I'd ask him to take a drastic paycut or he'd be axed.

 

I don't get why we dont do more performance incentives.

You got me buddy or at least pay him most of the signing bonus upfront instead of parlaying it all the way thru the contract so after a couple years we're not getting hit so hard capwise.

[Alaska Alaska!]

Cap hell is never worth it

[TDubbs]

Rice's 9.5m cap hit is a real killer. Can the Ravens not file a grievance that we shouldn't have to take that hit? 

[tolucaraven]

The Ravens FO blew it when they cut Rice. They overracted. They knew what he did, they knew the video would come out eventually. Accept the punishment and stand by your player, the Owner and FO lost my respect and overreacted to what media pressure was going to be, but the FO didnt own up. They panicked. The NFL suspended him, not the Ravens job to do. Ravens FO lost thier heads. Hence cap problem.

[edthehead]

There are a bunch of things that need to happen.

 

1.  Jacoby has to be gone.  He's not worth the money we're paying him, and we can just draft a kick returner.

 

2.  Ngata needs to either A.  restructure, or B. leave.  Jernigan has played at an extremely high level this year, and he looks like the future of that position.  Also, we have yet to see what Urban has to offer (I think KLM is a bust), and we could always draft someone at that position or replace through free agency.  Ngata is 30 at a very physically demanding position, and I just don't see him playing at the level he is playing right now in the future.  

 

3.  Re-evaluate Webb.  Should he be a FS?  Should he restructure?  Or is he a waste of a roster spot?  Webb is in limbo atm, and we need to figure out his role.  He is no longer a shutdown corner, but could possibly have a role in another way.  Figure this out ASAP.

 

4.  RE-SIGN JIMMY ASAP!!!!!!!!  This needs to happen to ensure future success.  The Ravens have not hit on a ton of picks lately (minus Jimmy and Mosley), so it's important to keep players like Jimmy around.  He is still at a very good age, and he does not have the brutal, extensive injury history that Webb did when we gave Webb the big contract.  Jimmy is worth top corner money.

 

5.  Evaluate Pierce and Arthur Brown in terms of the future.  If Pierce and Brown are not in the future plans, trade them for draft picks.  Both of them have enough value to net at least 2 picks total.  I could see a team trading a 4th or 5th rounder for Pierce, and maybe a 5th or 6th rounder for Brown.  

 

6.  Extend Osemele's contract.  Next year is his last year under his rookie contract, and we need to get him for a good price now, before he plays into a much larger contract.  He should be second on our list this summer after Jimmy.

 

7.  Pick a position for Elam and stick with it.  Elam's development has been stunted by the constant position changes and confusion.  He is not a smart enough guy to be able to handle these as a youngster.  If we kept him at 1 position, however, I think he could be a solid starter.  I like the future with Will Hill at FS and Elam finally able to settle down at SS.  That way, we wouldn't need to derp around with wayyyy too many safeties on the roster.

 

8.  Nail the 2015 draft.  We need players specifically at 3 positions: WR, TE, and CB.  Our team (besides Steve Smith) is filled with #3 and #4 WRs.  Torrey is a #3, and the rest of the guys are #4s.  Camp has the potential to be a good slot receiver, but he has been injured wayyy too much.  We need to land a good starting WR to complement Steve Smith and give us another reliable option.  TE is necessary because Pitta (if he's smart) will never play another snap in the NFL, and Daniels has been an injury risk for his entire career.  While Gillmore has been good for us, he is not the explosive #1 TE that the Ravens need.  He is a solid #2 TE with good hands and good blocking.  The Ravens need an explosive threat at TE (sort of like what dickson was supposed to be before he became a bust).  And the need for a CB is obvious, because we have trash there.  Webb is no longer competent, and the rest of the corners (besides Jimmy) are career special teamers and reserves.

 

9 (final).  Make a change at Defensive Coordinator.  Pees has been a decent D-coordinator, and he has improved in recent weeks, but I think that the defense could still be playing better.  Giving up 6 TDs to Ben is unacceptable, especially since a bunch of them were because of breakdowns in ineffective zone coverage schemes.  Pees has good ideas, but he doesn't know how to execute them, so we end up giving up big plays.  We need a coordinator that uses our personnel to the best of their abilities.  

 

So that's what I think the Ravens need to do in order to fix the cap and fix the team.

i usually read allot here and comment here and there,but you have summed up everything I have been saying,I just wrote a comment under eisenberg 5 thoughts,, I AGREE 

[redrum52]

The Ravens FO blew it when they cut Rice. They overracted. They knew what he did, they knew the video would come out eventually. Accept the punishment and stand by your player, the Owner and FO lost my respect and overreacted to what media pressure was going to be, but the FO didnt own up. They panicked. The NFL suspended him, not the Ravens job to do. Ravens FO lost thier heads. Hence cap problem.

I kinda of agree. I think they had seen the video and when it was released felt they had to do it for public relations. Also killed my fantasy season. I waited to pick up Rice knowing no one would pick him up early. He was suppose to be my #1 and now I'm in these streets suffering at rb.

On topic , I didn't agree with the move but what can we do now?

[MTRavensFan]

The Ravens FO blew it when they cut Rice. They overracted. They knew what he did, they knew the video would come out eventually. Accept the punishment and stand by your player, the Owner and FO lost my respect and overreacted to what media pressure was going to be, but the FO didnt own up. They panicked. The NFL suspended him, not the Ravens job to do. Ravens FO lost thier heads. Hence cap problem.

Had they waited to cut him until after the suspension, would we still be on the hook for the cap hit? Since it's dead money (from the signing bonus, is that right?) At least, that's my understanding of how dead money works, we're on the hook for it, suspension or not. I could be wrong.

 

If he's reinstated, it's all a moot point anyway. We've paid him to play for someone else.

[Cillmatic]

Free agents:

Dez Bryant(?)(WR)

Ahmad Bradshaw(RB)

Demaryius Thomas(WR)

Randal Cobb(WR)

Jordan Cameron(TE)

Julius Thomas(TE)

Cliff Avril(DE)

Antonio Cromartie(CB)

Chris Harris(CB)

Byron Maxwell(CB)

Brandon Flowers(CB)

Devin Mccourty (S/CB)

Will Hill(S)

Make it happen Ozzie

[pep_meister]

and then you have 2 aging pass rushers in suggs and doom and a beast in mcphee who is playing himself out of baltimore. this will go full circle. we will pick up CBs and then they will get torched from lack of pressure. 

 

also every single year we think the ravens will address need and it never happens... how many years now have we thought a receiver would go with our 1 or 2 picks ... especially in this draft. We knew we needed a CB3... heck even if they were fine with who we had at cb3 we still needed depth and cb is a place that most rookies don't dive right into... we could have had a rookie corner thrown in the fire devoloping  all kinds of starting experience right now but we have franks and a guy who is a broken image of what he once was or had the potential to be. maybe this isn't the place for it but it seems we are talking needs for next year... i just really hope for the first time in many years we take the best available player at our weakest position. Ozzie hasn't been hitting him runs by any means anymore.. look how far the bengals and browns have come... look where the steelers are now and look where we are. The draft class of Sergio Kindle and Fat Cody really hurt.

[Dewy101]

I kinda of agree. I think they had seen the video and when it was released felt they had to do it for public relations. Also killed my fantasy season. I waited to pick up Rice knowing no one would pick him up early. He was suppose to be my #1 and now I'm in these streets suffering at rb.

On topic , I didn't agree with the move but what can we do now?

Lmao im in the same boat I thought 4 games was nothing but then the suspension for the whole season killed me

[Sami84]

Free agents:

Dez Bryant(?)(WR)

Ahmad Bradshaw(RB)

Demaryius Thomas(WR)

Randal Cobb(WR)

Jordan Cameron(TE)

Julius Thomas(TE)

Cliff Avril(DE)

Antonio Cromartie(CB)

Chris Harris(CB)

Byron Maxwell(CB)

Brandon Flowers(CB)

Devin Mccourty (S/CB)

Will Hill(S)

Make it happen Ozzie

 

Randall Cobb

Chris Harris

 

Do it.

[cursona pirate]

I'm gonna get hate for this. But I don't care.

 

Keep Jacoby. His contract isn't a HUGE killer. Also last year he didn't get going until the second half of the season. So my mind could change. If we do get rid of him then I hope he retires or goes to the Bills.

 

Torrey Smith we should try to keep but if he is asking for big money then let him go to like the Bills or something. But he I think he will be reasonable. 

 

Marlon Brown, Aiken, and Campanaro should be fine with Steve Smith sr next year. Unless Smith Sr. retires.

 

Pitta might never play again. But maybe a restructured in contract if he is gonna be limited. 

 

Flacco may or may no restructure. 

 

Forsett?????

[hn68wb4]

When Ozzie did a clean sweep in 2010 (I think)...Mason, Willis, Heap and someone else, It was WW4, but it worked out...Who knows.

i believe Kelly Gregg was the other but i may be mistaken

[ravensnick]

Randall Cobb

Chris Harris

 

Do it.

Cobb should be relatively cheap (being that he is the #2 WR on his team, a little short, injury history) and Green Bay just drafted a possible replacement in Davante Adams. My only concern is his height, as with him and Steve, We would have probably the leagues shortest starting WR corp.

 

Chris Harris is almost a must if we don't want to take a CB in the first.

[hn68wb4]

I'm gonna get hate for this. But I don't care.

 

Keep Jacoby. His contract isn't a HUGE killer. Also last year he didn't get going until the second half of the season. So my mind could change. If we do get rid of him then I hope he retires or goes to the Bills.

 

Torrey Smith we should try to keep but if he is asking for big money then let him go to like the Bills or something. But he I think he will be reasonable. 

 

Marlon Brown, Aiken, and Campanaro should be fine with Steve Smith sr next year. Unless Smith Sr. retires.

 

Pitta might never play again. But maybe a restructured in contract if he is gonna be limited. 

 

Flacco may or may no restructure. 

 

Forsett?????

why do you think every receiver would end up with the Bills? why would they want any of them? they already have Watkins as their #1 and Woods as their #2, they have no need to pay for another receiver, they just need a QB...

with that we'd still be left with no #1 WR, we can't just count on Smith Sr. to play like a #1 forever, he hasn't been playing all that well for a couple weeks now, we need to draft someone that has #1 potential, none of the guys you listed have outside #1 potential, two of them are slot guys and Aiken is still developing

[ravensnick]

Free agents:

Dez Bryant(?)(WR)

Ahmad Bradshaw(RB)

Demaryius Thomas(WR)

Randal Cobb(WR)

Jordan Cameron(TE)

Julius Thomas(TE)

Cliff Avril(DE)

Antonio Cromartie(CB)

Chris Harris(CB)

Byron Maxwell(CB)

Brandon Flowers(CB)

Devin Mccourty (S/CB)

Will Hill(S)

Make it happen Ozzie

Bold are the realistic options. Bryant, Cameron, Thomas and Thomas, and McCourty are going to be way too expensive. Flowers is pushing that way but not quite there. Hill should be a slam dunk resign. I don't want Bradshaw or Cromantie because they are old. harris is #1 on my wish list. I think cobb is a very possible option.

[52520Andrew]

Maxwell is a guy who could be interesting although I don't know if Seattle lets him go as they like him enough to keep Sherman on one side when he is in.

[hn68wb4]

Cobb should be relatively cheap (being that he is the #2 WR on his team, a little short, injury history) and Green Bay just drafted a possible replacement in Davante Adams. My only concern is his height, as with him and Steve, We would have probably the leagues shortest starting WR corp.

well he'd be cheap to pull away from GB, but he won't come cheap, its not us vs. GB, its us vs. the rest of the league, GB won't drive up the price but WR needy teams will. When all is said and done he is probably the best receiver that'll actually be on the market, i doubt Thomas or Bryant hit the market, theyre the best WRs on their team by far and they'd be foolish to let them go. As far as receiver goes I'm not to fixated on height, i mean Smith Sr. is shorter than him, as is Welker, amendola, Mason was the same height, antonio brown is the same height, at WR height isn't that much of a concern

[ravensnick]

well he'd be cheap to pull away from GB, but he won't come cheap, its not us vs. GB, its us vs. the rest of the league, GB won't drive up the price but WR needy teams will. When all is said and done he is probably the best receiver that'll actually be on the market, i doubt Thomas or Bryant hit the market, theyre the best WRs on their team by far and they'd be foolish to let them go. As far as receiver goes I'm not to fixated on height, i mean Smith Sr. is shorter than him, as is Welker, amendola, Mason was the same height, antonio brown is the same height, at WR height isn't that much of a concern

But you need a taller guy on your team. The pats have shorter guys at WR (Edelman and Amendola) but then also have monsters in LaFell and Gronk. You need a balance.

[hn68wb4]

But you need a taller guy on your team. The pats have shorter guys at WR (Edelman and Amendola) but then also have monsters in LaFell and Gronk. You need a balance.

Brown, Daniels, Pitta, even Torrey and jacoby have fine height, height isn't a problem on this team...and its no secret that I'm pulling for Jaelen Strong in the draft