We need Rex Ryan back

[BirdWatcher]

Agreed

 

Still, after yet another mismanaged time out situation by our coach, taking on Ryan might be worth the risk to improve our defense.  Head coaches should demonstrate sound judgment the majority of the time to be tenured.

I think you just shot down your own point. Rex is certainly NOT known for good clock management or sound judgment.

[EricH]

I may be way off on this, but here goes.

Our guys play off 10 yards because they aren't good enough to break up passes or the speed to stay with receivers.  And when they are tight, they seem to have flags thrown on them for being 'too tight' on receivers.  They need to keep their hands off the receivers and play the ball.  Geesh.

 

I also think the whole 'Rex Ryan thing' is way overblown.  You guys are imagining him doing things with players less talented than what he had in the past.  He was also a virus in the locker room.  He was responsible for the division in the locker room.  The defense on one side/offense on the other. 

 

This type of discussion has come up in the past with prior players and Harbaugh's doghouse.  Some fans have the win at all costs mentality. Perhaps with me being a bit older thus having more years of football viewership under the belt, I am from the other mindset.  This team wins as a team or not at all.  I for one support Harbs' doghouse 100%.  These men are being paid millions of dollars to play a sport.  A sport...for fans to watch.  If they cannot carry themselves in a dignified manner, represent the city, and fanbase as morally correct individuals- bench them. 

 

Never let the inmates run the prison.  And those of you that followed the early 2000's Ravens, both Billick and Ryan allowed them to do so.

[Wholelottahaloti]

I may be way off on this, but here goes.

Our guys play off 10 yards because they aren't good enough to break up passes or the speed to stay with receivers.  And when they are tight, they seem to have flags thrown on them for being 'too tight' on receivers.  They need to keep their hands off the receivers and play the ball.  Geesh.

 

We have taken more than our fair share of questionable pass interference calls.  If they are close they tend to call them against us, though our secondary is clearly our greatest weakness.

 

I also think the whole 'Rex Ryan thing' is way overblown.  You guys are imagining him doing things with players less talented than what he had in the past.  He was also a virus in the locker room.  He was responsible for the division in the locker room.  The defense on one side/offense on the other. 

 

Ryan certainly had more talent on defense during his tenure and little support from the Offense.  The Offense is better now and Ryan may have learned something from head coaching.

 

This type of discussion has come up in the past with prior players and Harbaugh's doghouse.  Some fans have the win at all costs mentality. Perhaps with me being a bit older thus having more years of football viewership under the belt, I am from the other mindset.  This team wins as a team or not at all.  I for one support Harbs' doghouse 100%.  These men are being paid millions of dollars to play a sport.  A sport...for fans to watch.  If they cannot carry themselves in a dignified manner, represent the city, and fanbase as morally correct individuals- bench them. 

 

If the conversation was about discipline for improper off the field conduct there is no issue, excepting the Ray Rice event which is more political than Washington D.C.  The question appeared to be about the game/team value of a coach vs. the game/team value of talented players with minds of their own. Which has greater value? 

 

Harbaugh is a good coach, maybe too good to risk alienating with competition from Rex Ryan as defensive coordinator.  Ryan will not be coming and our defense will have to be fixed from within, but the politics of keeping Harbaugh happy is becoming interesting.  He inherited a dang good team from Billick and he's now having to demonstrate what kind of team he can field with his influence becoming more predominate.

 

 

Never let the inmates run the prison.  And those of you that followed the early 2000's Ravens, both Billick and Ryan allowed them to do so.

[poescrows]

" He inherited a dang good team from Billick and he's now having to demonstrate what kind of team he can field with his influence becoming more predominate."

Wow, can't agree with this part of your post at all. By the time Billick was shown the door, the "team" was a mess. Yes, we still had some very talented players on board, but it was certainly not a dang good team. (imo)

[jazz1988]

I may be way off on this, but here goes.

Our guys play off 10 yards because they aren't good enough to break up passes or the speed to stay with receivers.  And when they are tight, they seem to have flags thrown on them for being 'too tight' on receivers.  They need to keep their hands off the receivers and play the ball.  Geesh.

 

I also think the whole 'Rex Ryan thing' is way overblown.  You guys are imagining him doing things with players less talented than what he had in the past.  He was also a virus in the locker room.  He was responsible for the division in the locker room.  The defense on one side/offense on the other. 

 

This type of discussion has come up in the past with prior players and Harbaugh's doghouse.  Some fans have the win at all costs mentality. Perhaps with me being a bit older thus having more years of football viewership under the belt, I am from the other mindset.  This team wins as a team or not at all.  I for one support Harbs' doghouse 100%.  These men are being paid millions of dollars to play a sport.  A sport...for fans to watch.  If they cannot carry themselves in a dignified manner, represent the city, and fanbase as morally correct individuals- bench them. 

 

Never let the inmates run the prison.  And those of you that followed the early 2000's Ravens, both Billick and Ryan allowed them to do so.

 

i feel like our defense or our players in general would respond better to a coach like  Rex Ryan. Rex Ryan was a defensive coordinator that players really like, he was aggressive, and players had fun . The same can be said about Chuck Pagano but can it be said  about Dean Pees?

 

I think Pees is a good defensive coordinator but what he brings to the table is totally different from Ryan and Pagano. I'm not saying Rex Ryan or Chuck Pagano  wouldn't experience the same issues Dean Pees has been facing so far but at the end of the day it's not always about good defensive schemes. Sometimes players give a coach more all because they really like them and it's even more of boost when they can have fun.

[edthehead]

rex is a very good coach. rex with our current defensive personell would be like rex with the jets current personnel, he would fail. quit blaming Pees. you can't put lipstick on this pig.

Aahhhh, but you can put lipstick on a pig it will not look good,but you get the same effect ..................

 

    1.OL'DANNY BOY PEES,he is a good DC he is not great ,he will not scheme his way through a game no exotic blizes/looks,our past DC had a certain intensity/fire the defense was their mark and platform to becoming a HC,OL'DANNY BOY will never be a HC.  

     2.Rex is gone and will not be back( just for the record I would love for him to be back) but who can we find with that drive/desire to win and put players in position to perform

 clearence brooks maybe, idk

 

yes we have a bad secondary,but we have to good of a front,if we would have put pressure ,constant pressure on

                                 dalton *2 ,luck (we were in the game) and Rivers

the game would have had a different outcome,   

[Sami84]

clarence brooks is sack/blitz crazy like rex...

 

Him and rex were an awesome combo…pure raveness there!

[GrimCoconut]

clarence brooks is sack/blitz crazy like rex...

Him and rex were an awesome combo…pure raveness there!

Brooks is a very very very underrated coach and I think he's the one who has made us so successful in drafting late rounds DL talent.

[cobrajet]

I think we all need to look at NY and understand that it may not have been as much Rex as it was personnel....  I, for one, wouldn't want him back.  His scheme?  It was good....  but he wouldn't be able to come in here and do what he would need to with the personnel we have on this roster. There would be little if no difference. 

 

We need to stop bashing on our Secondary...  We all already know how bad it's been.  We have lived it, and it has very little to do with our DC.  This conversation has been beaten ad nauseum. 

 

That team in NY is sooooo fractured, it's gonna take years to repair.  Look at the players that have been through there the past few years...  come and gone on to other teams...  with great success on other teams....

 

Stay Classy Baltimore....

I don't think Rex could do much to improve our secondary but I think he could scheme some better pass rush which could help the secondary. I think Rex is more like Pagano than Pees. I am not bashing Pees, trust me, I like him a ton more than Mattison. However, IMHO I think Rex could get more out of our personnel. With that said, Do I want Rex back....Yes! Do I think he will be offered the DC job if available......Not a chance! I do agree that bashing our secondary is like beating a dead horse. Hopefully, Asa can give it a lift on Sunday.

[EricH]

 

 

He inherited a dang good team from Billick and he's now having to demonstrate what kind of team he can field with his influence becoming more predominate.

 

 

 

This I have to disagree with.  Flacco and Rice started with Harbs in 2008.  And that team was not very good Billick's final yer.  It finished last in the division at 5-11 and hadn't won a playoff game since 2001.  IMO, what Harbs, flacco, and Rice did with this team was amazing. 

Don't you guys remember sitting through the Boller years?  I also remember how much booing transpired from the fans during Billick's last year.  M&T was not a happy stadium.

[Tenacious Faulker]

Let's be clear about something, the DC has little to no input on roster construction. That's all on the GM and some HC. You think Pees goes up to Ozzie and says "please don't get me any quality CBs, I prefer 7 safeties instead."

Ozzie dropped the ball, plain and simple.

As a matter of fact they do.  Why else do you have a DC if not to coordinate the defense.  That entails getting the right players to execute it.  Like in a normal business they meet.  They decode on who they can afford under the cap and who is available.

 

That's just how it works otherwise there is no need for a coaches and Ozzie can be the GM, HC, OC, DC, and so on.  Honestly, you need to know what you're talking about before you utter the words "Let's be clear". 

[gabefergy]

As a matter of fact they do.  Why else do you have a DC if not to coordinate the defense.  That entails getting the right players to execute it.  Like in a normal business they meet.  They decode on who they can afford under the cap and who is available.

 

That's just how it works otherwise there is no need for a coaches and Ozzie can be the GM, HC, OC, DC, and so on.  Honestly, you need to know what you're talking about before you utter the words "Let's be clear". 

Yes, coordinate the defense, not sign players to the roster. That is the GM's job.

[Tenacious Faulker]

Yes, coordinate the defense, not sign players to the roster. That is the GM's job.

Duhhhh, I didn't say he signed them.  Go back and read it.  The DC tells the GM who or what he wants/needs and the GM works it out if possible.  And yes we all know he coordinates the players.  C'mon, man.

[K-Dog]

I am pretty sure its a team effort.  I doubt Ozzie surprises Pees and I doubt Pees is flying players in and handing them a pen.

I am confidant Pees and Ozzie probably have one of those conversations things you hear about from time to time in any successful business.

[beasy2487]

Rex Ryan is a great defensive mind

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

The jets have played teams such as the Packers, Bears, Patriots, Chargers, Broncos, Lions & they still have a better defense than us when it comes to total yards per game & passing yards per game. Need I say more?

If yards won games then yea I'd say their defense is better. It's different philosophies. Playing aggressive like Rex can be very effective but it also leaves you vulnerable to giving up points.

Pees' philosophy is to keep the play in front of the db's which gives up more yards but forces the offense to consistently complete passes, pick up 3rd downs, and put together long drives.

Look at ppg which is the true measure of a defense (considering their job is to keep the offense from scoring). Pees' defense is doing better.

Pees is not the problem and in fact his game plans have been pretty brilliant lately. Player execution has been the issue in pretty much every single loss. Pees can't help Elam, Brooks and Stewart to tackle to avoid giving up extra yards or help them in/out of their breaks or learn to turn their head to find the ball.

Pees defense may not always be flashy or pretty but it won us a Super Bowl. For all the stats Rex hasn't been able to do it even with far more talented defenses with both the Ravens and Jets. End of the day when you're super aggressive eventually mistakes are made and you get exposed.

A sound, balanced game plan that makes the other team earn every point they score the hard way wins in the long run.

[The Raven]

People can talk about yards all they want. That's checkers, not chess. Pees plays chess on defense. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

As a matter of fact they do. Why else do you have a DC if not to coordinate the defense. That entails getting the right players to execute it. Like in a normal business they meet. They decode on who they can afford under the cap and who is available.

That's just how it works otherwise there is no need for a coaches and Ozzie can be the GM, HC, OC, DC, and so on. Honestly, you need to know what you're talking about before you utter the words "Let's be clear".

What???

So you're saying that either pees obviously has a big say in what defensive players get drafted or signed because if he didn't Ozzie could do his job?

How does that make sense? Wouldn't it be the other way around?

If the defensive coordinator picks defensive players and the offensive coordinator picks offensive players, then what does the GM do?

Harbaugh has even admitted publicly that even he doesn't have much say in personnel decisions. He may give some input to where he wants an upgrade or a certain player, but he flat out said end of day that's Ozzie and decostas job.

They get the players and the coaches job is to build a scheme around whatever they're given.

Coordinating a defense has nothing to do with picking personnel. Some head coaches run the show and take full control of personnel but that's not the case here in Baltimore. That's part of the reason Harbaugh was picked as head coach, he's not a control guy but his best attribute is getting the best out of whatever he's given.

Since day 1 the organizational makeup has been that Ozzie controls all personnel. Pees obviously has some input but the extent of it is "hey we could use an upgrade at linebacker." Not "get me player x." Pees is busy gameplanning and doing his job, he's not a talent evaluator. That was Ozzie and the scouts do. If pees makes a request Ozzie decides whether or not it's a priority and if he deems it important enough to address he does but with the player he and his scouts feel is the best fit.

[Tenacious Faulker]

So you're telling me that Ozzie and Harbs give the players they want to Pees for he defensive scheme that he installs?  You're nuts.  The DC and OC work (by committee) with the head coach and GM to get the players they need to do their job they were hired to perform.

 

Its like if you're boss said to you "we hired you to do you're job your way because you're an expert, but we're going to pick your workers and give you scabs in for half the load".  Hopefully you see the problem there.  The coordinators are not just window dressing.  Harbs specialty WAS special teams, but he doesn't run special teams.  

 

The coordinators (on this team at least) have input on free agents, trades, and the draft.  It's team effort and I've seen the videos of the coordinators at the draft with Harbs, Ozzie and Biscotti.  They're part of management.

 

Not sure why people think the coordinators have no input into personnel decisions.  

[PurpleCity5]

Defense was inching towards Top-10 before Jimmy went down. After that everyone went after Franks and co. Honestly I can't get mad at Pees, he just doesn't have enough in the secondary to work with.

[Tenacious Faulker]

Defense was inching towards Top-10 before Jimmy went down. After that everyone went after Franks and co. Honestly I can't get mad at Pees, he just doesn't have enough in the secondary to work with.

Good point.  Would've loved to see it with Jimmy and Hill at their best.  Just highlites the need for better depth.  Pees has been cobbling together the secondary with developmental and bottom of the barrel players.  Jimmy's an up-and-comer.  Webby's on the back-9 of his career.  Jackson was injured much of the season.  Hill missed half the season.  Hopefully he can get them firing on close to all cylinders for the play-off race and post season.  

 

As much as Rex is the sexy pick to replace Pees, that assumes Pees job is in jeopardy really.  If they make the play-offs and at least one win there you know there is no chance Pees is fired.  

 

At the end of the day the odds of Rex returning are really slim.

[gabefergy]

Duhhhh, I didn't say he signed them. Go back and read it. The DC tells the GM who or what he wants/needs and the GM works it out if possible. And yes we all know he coordinates the players. C'mon, man.

Nah, you are just making stuff up.

[Tenacious Faulker]

Yeah. We all come here to make things up.  LOL!

[PurpleCity5]

Good point.  Would've loved to see it with Jimmy and Hill at their best.  Just highlites the need for better depth.  Pees has been cobbling together the secondary with developmental and bottom of the barrel players.  Jimmy's an up-and-comer.  Webby's on the back-9 of his career.  Jackson was injured much of the season.  Hill missed half the season.  Hopefully he can get them firing on close to all cylinders for the play-off race and post season.  

 

As much as Rex is the sexy pick to replace Pees, that assumes Pees job is in jeopardy really.  If they make the play-offs and at least one win there you know there is no chance Pees is fired.  

 

At the end of the day the odds of Rex returning are really slim.

 

Exactly, look at the Jets, take a look at their defenses TD:INT ratio, it's the worst in the league, people asking for Rex Ryan back his secondary can't make plays and they're better than the Ravens secondary unit as of now, statistically, what would Rex do better with this defense than Pees? 

[Tenacious Faulker]

Exactly, look at the Jets, take a look at their defenses TD:INT ratio, it's the worst in the league, people asking for Rex Ryan back his secondary can't make plays and they're better than the Ravens secondary unit as of now, statistically, what would Rex do better with this defense than Pees? 

I think that many people remember the successful defenses under Rex and long for those days of defensive dominance.  Rex's style is the opposite of Pees - like blunt force trauma compared to a surgical strike.  It's often forgotten that Rex's penchant for blitzing opened up the big plays for opposing offenses.  It takes a lot of planning to make Pees defense work, but it takes a lot of great players to make Rex's work - Rex benefited from 5 Pro Bowlers on roster while Pees is still trying to build up to that.

[PurpleCity5]

I think that many people remember the successful defenses under Rex and long for those days of defensive dominance.  Rex's style is the opposite of Pees - like blunt force trauma compared to a surgical strike.  It's often forgotten that Rex's penchant for blitzing opened up the big plays for opposing offenses.  It takes a lot of planning to make Pees defense work, but it takes a lot of great players to make Rex's work - Rex benefited from 5 Pro Bowlers on roster while Pees is still trying to build up to that.

Great point, I completely agree.

[Guest I-70WestRaven]

Enough! No more Rex, it's not back to the future but next man up! Sure, coach Pees has made some questionable calls, but come on man! Do you really think Rex could over come what has happened to our secondary? Blitz, try it, someone is going to be running free, if you don't get there then what? How did "Doom" just set a record under Dean than Rex? Let it go! He ain't coming back and I, for one do not want him too! Younger not dumber! 

[ellicottraven]

I don't think Harbs is a guy who's going to let Pees go just because Rex is available. He'll probably consider hiring him as a defensive consultant for a year or two till Pees retires or something....

[Maryland]

I don't think Harbs is a guy who's going to let Pees go just because Rex is available. He'll probably consider hiring him as a defensive consultant for a year or two till Pees retires or something....

Forget what Harbaugh/Ozzie/the organization wants, there is literally zero chance that Rex comes back to the very same team that passed him over for a HC job in favor of Harbaugh. Working beneath Harbaugh would be like admitting defeat--it would be admitting that Ozzie and Steve were right to pass him over as a HC because he isn't HC material. It would be too humbling an experience for Rex to return, tail between his legs, and work beneath John Harbaugh.

[ellicottraven]

Forget what Harbaugh/Ozzie/the organization wants, there is literally zero chance that Rex comes back to the very same team that passed him over for a HC job in favor of Harbaugh. Working beneath Harbaugh would be like admitting defeat--it would be admitting that Ozzie and Steve were right to pass him over as a HC because he isn't HC material. It would be too humbling an experience for Rex to return, tail between his legs, and work beneath John Harbaugh.

I don't think it is as bad or black and white as you make it. You forget that Rex worked under Harbs for a full year and I'm sure those wounds you describe were pretty much healed...