Official Vent thread vs Bengals

[rmcjacket23]

Ok and real quick, we have more 4th down attempts than anyone in the league (11).  And a middle of the pack success rate (45%).  To me, this is unacceptable.  What does it say about our team, that we feel the need to go for it on 4th so often?  As I stated above, a bad team needs those extra points, we ARE NOT a bad team.  We need to take the field goals when they are there.

Misleading though. I could be wrong, but I only count two instances where we passed up the FG to go for it.

[jimmypowder]

He's beside Steve through the entire play and Smith had very ample opportunity to make a play on the ball. So much bias

From a different angle the Bengal defender also had his hands on Smith . Watch the different angle .

This was essentialy a jump ball . You let em fight in a jump ball . Smith won , the dude flopped cause he knew he lost and a flag was the only thing that was gonna save him .

[orangle123]

Misleading though. I could be wrong, but I only count two instances where we passed up the FG to go for it.

Putting the stats together now, brb lol

[jazz1988]

Torrey smith is hurting this team right now! Either he gets his crap together or he needs to ride the pine . 0/0 and caused an INT that's Torreys stat line.

The Oline is giving up far too many free runners to the qb. Joe has done a decent job getting free but it's alarming how in our losses we had TONS of guys coming clean to the QB.

We may have the worst safety duo in the league, depending on the rotation. Matt Elam can't tackle... He did force a fumble yesterday but he's not a fundamentally sound tackler. Coming into his rookie year, that's all we heard... How he tackles.. I personally don't see it! Guys are throwing him off and gaining YAC... It's inexcusible ! Brooks hasn't played horribly, but gave up the huge 3rd down conversion for about 50 yards... Failure to locate the ball.

Either Webby is used up and injuries have taken their toll or he's just still shaking rust off... But this guy can't cover right now! GREG Little burned him ... GREG LITTLE... One of the slower WR's in the league.. That's a joke. Webb still has the fire in his heart, but the legs look really tired!

 

Greg Little isn't slow his 40 time was 4.51 and he always had the talent to be a  good receiver but his hands always sucked.

[Static]

The Bengals wanted to secure the division so badly that they targeted all of our key players.

Torrey was launched at and hit helmet to helmet for gods sake.

[757RavensFan]

I'd love to see how many 3rd and longs (+ 10 yards) were converted yesterday.

 

BTW, when a team beats us three straight times, I think they earn the right to be

called the Bengals and not the Bungles. 

[orangle123]

Ok so here are all the 4th down attempts, per field position.

Week 1
4th and 9 from Cinci 21, !:00 left in 4th, no good.  Moot, end of game.

 

Week 2

None

 

Week 3

4th and 1 from Browns 21, 10:51 left in 4th, no good.  Bad call.  We were down 4 at the time, but should have taken points imo.  We would later settle for two different field goals and win.  Why risk it with so much time left in game?

 

Week 4

This game was a stomp, not even looking at this one.

 

Week 5

4th and 1 from Colt 3, 10:09 left in 1st, no good.  Bad call.  This would have tied the game early, instead we are down 3.

Two more 4th down attempts in this game, one good one no good.  But end of game, so Moot.

 

Week 6

Another stomp.

 

Week 7

4th and 9 from Flacon 39, kinda Moot because Cox was injured, so I don't count this, plus we won with a safe lead.

 

Week 8

ok so two to start here...

4th and 1 from Cinci 41 and 4th and 1 from Cinci 1, in first quarter.  Bad calls imo.  Ok, so maybe good first call, but only because he got the first.  The second forth down needs to result in points.  We were down 7 at the time, just take the points and get out there next drive with less pressure.

 

So that's 7 of the 11 4th down attempts, I didn't include the stomp games as they are Moot to me.  But from my perspective, that's 7 Moot, and 4 Bad calls, two of which were more tone setters than actually important points.  So i guess it could be worse, but I still think that's 4 (kinda 3) opportunities to set a tone that we missed out on.

[rmcjacket23]

Putting the stats together now, brb lol

Here's what I came up with (not 100% about it though):

 

5 instances this season where the Ravens have gone for it on 4th and 1 in what is perceived as FG territory.

 

vs CIN week 1 - 4th and 1 at the CIN 35, converted, kicked FG at end of drive (down 8 points in the 4th quarter, approximately 12 minutes left in the game)

vs PIT week 2 - 4th and 1 at PIT 35, converted, scored TD at end of drive

at CLE week 3 - 4th and 1 at CLE 21, failed (down 4 points in the 4th quarter, approximately 11 minutes left in the game)

at IND week 5 - 4th and 1 at IND 3, failed (this was a big mistake in my opinion)

at CIN week 8 - 4th and 1 at CIN 1, failed (down 7-0, early in the game).

 

So it did happen more than I thought. Honestly, I have no issue with the first two decisions. Even though we know we have a great kicker, 50+ yarders aren't chip shots, and he does miss sometimes. I think going for it on 4th and 1 from the mid-30s is a pretty easy call for most NFL teams. I don't have too much of an issue with the Browns decision, because we were moving the ball well, running it extremely well, and the FG doesn't even tie the game in the 4th quarter. The Indy decision was dumb, and I said that the moment it happened. Strategically, I just think it was a mistake. The Bengals game I'm torn on, because the idea of kicking a FG on 4th and goal from the 1 always seems way too conservative to me. I suppose based on the time of the game you can argue to take the points there and I wouldn't have an issue with it.

[balfan23]

I would contend that every thread on this board has become an official vent thread vs. the Bengals. Not sure we need a special one. 

[orangle123]

Here's what I came up with (not 100% about it though):

 

5 instances this season where the Ravens have gone for it on 4th and 1 in what is perceived as FG territory.

 

vs CIN week 1 - 4th and 1 at the CIN 35, converted, kicked FG at end of drive (down 8 points in the 4th quarter, approximately 12 minutes left in the game)

vs PIT week 2 - 4th and 1 at PIT 35, converted, scored TD at end of drive

at CLE week 3 - 4th and 1 at CLE 21, failed (down 4 points in the 4th quarter, approximately 11 minutes left in the game)

at IND week 5 - 4th and 1 at IND 3, failed (this was a big mistake in my opinion)

at CIN week 8 - 4th and 1 at CIN 1, failed (down 7-0, early in the game).

 

So it did happen more than I thought. Honestly, I have no issue with the first two decisions. Even though we know we have a great kicker, 50+ yarders aren't chip shots, and he does miss sometimes. I think going for it on 4th and 1 from the mid-30s is a pretty easy call for most NFL teams. I don't have too much of an issue with the Browns decision, because we were moving the ball well, running it extremely well, and the FG doesn't even tie the game in the 4th quarter. The Indy decision was dumb, and I said that the moment it happened. Strategically, I just think it was a mistake. The Bengals game I'm torn on, because the idea of kicking a FG on 4th and goal from the 1 always seems way too conservative to me. I suppose based on the time of the game you can argue to take the points there and I wouldn't have an issue with it.

Nice work, I missed one you picked up on so thanks.  And I would agree, I think I've moved closer to your argument, and have hoped off my ship, but still think I'm somewhere in between.  I think a lost 4th down is a tone setter, and not a good one.  I guess that's my new argument, that we lose momentum by not converting on 4th, when a field goal could have been had

[Georgehd]

Let's face it our Ravens just aren't consistent,up and down you know what I mean.

[The Mom Gene]

I would contend that every thread on this board has become an official vent thread vs. the Bengals. Not sure we need a special one. 

I agree.....  The entire fanbase is peeved.....  and rightfully so on so many different levels.

 

NOW, ON TO THE STEELERS.....

[rmcjacket23]

Nice work, I missed one you picked up on so thanks.  And I would agree, I think I've moved closer to your argument, and have hoped off my ship, but still think I'm somewhere in between.  I think a lost 4th down is a tone setter, and not a good one.  I guess that's my new argument, that we lose momentum by not converting on 4th, when a field goal could have been had

And I agree... its sort of a tone setter either way. Had I been coaching, I'd have kicked against Cleveland and Indy, and I'd have gone for the rest.

 

This weeks was interesting, because its literally an all or not nothing scenario. Its either TD or turnover, and that's as big of a tone setter as it gets in this league.

 

Keep in mind also, particularly in the Indy and CIN games, that the field position is extremely favorable for the defense even if we don't convert. We forced a punt from the 5 yard line yesterday after failing to convert, which we did convert into 3 points on the next drive. We don't know if that would have happened if we just kicked it to begin with, but we likely wouldn't be starting our next drive at the 50 yard line like we did.

 

On the flip side, in the Indy game, against you'd think pinning them at the 3 yard line would be great for our defense, and our field position when we get the ball back should be superb. Instead, they went on like a 20 play drive that resulted in a FG.

[Static]

I love how when Camp was the only one getting open and making plays the Bengals decide to hit man him too.

[ravensfan2430]

Take the points, take the points, take the points... until you NEED to go for it.

[Gordo52]

Missed the game.... Was listening to it on the radio and I have it on dvr but I'm not even sure I want to watch it.

[H8R]

Greg Little isn't slow his 40 time was 4.51 and he always had the talent to be a  good receiver but his hands always sucked.

 

 

4.53 at the combine, but yea... I underestimated his speed a bit. It's not like he's a burner though, and Webb shouldnt be that far behind him.

[orangle123]

Missed the game.... Was listening to it on the radio and I have it on dvr but I'm not even sure I want to watch it.

If I'm you, I don't watch it.  It'll just be a source of frustration.  We played good enough to win but the Bengals played just a bit better, and with some luck/help from refs, won.  Not a terrible game, but terribly frustrating.

[Ravenseconbeast]

I felt overall we played way too desperate starting this game.  

Right off the bat, bengals caught 2 overthrown catches from Sanu and one other receiver.  7 points...(lose jimmy)

 

Then our turn @ offense...endzone 2nd &1....stuffed run...3rd&1...stuffed run...4&1 run short pass to aiken(overthrown)...no good.

 

Defense stops bengals to 3rd and out

 

Offense...short dump pass 2x.  Then Joe looks for long ball.  No one there.  Sacked for 8 yard loss.  Field goal..

 

Yanda gets injured (Urshel as RT...?)  2 passes to Torrey (torrey gets int from Bengals secondary)  Torrey gets slant pass(doesnt even try) Pass to steve at slant (successful 1st down from 3rd and 7)  Forsett runs +25 yards on one play.

Then...Monroe gets injured and replaced with Hurst.   Succesful long field goal.    

 

so 6-7.

 

We get a quick 3rd and out from Andy.

 

Offense gets great protection at 40 yards.  Long wait, Joe throws a long ball at 2nd&9 with plenty of time to Torrey.  Under throws heavily.  INT to Bengals linebacker.    

 

Andy throws toward CJ mosley, penalty for batting the ball at perfect time (dumb call).   Andy goes to 20yards near endzone.  Run Run TD....6-14

 

Ravens Offense. Great run games with KO/Monroe back at left.  3rd and 2nd, joe throws another stupid INT STRAIGHT TO Adam Jones.   (again! toward torrey, but no where near him this time)

 

Back to back INT in less than 3 passing plays.  Torrey finally acts like his 'injured' out of nowhere.  His gone.   Bengals FG 6-17.

 

Even with all the switch-a-roo at Oline, Joe was getting great protection vs. Bengals lineman.  Bad decisions from Joe not using his head.  Really bad playing desperate forcing passes that wont work at 4&1 and short situation.

 

GAME OVER.

 

I think Joe has a TERRIBLE TIME evaluating the flow of what works and what doesn't at the Bengals game.  The players that worked are Steve &Lorenzo.  Both those players were gashing Bengals left and right.  Instead, Joe stuck to his guts and constantly kept working on things that would NOT work(i.e. Torrey)..    

 

 

Oh but wait...Haloti & Daryl somehow makes an outstanding play and goes all the way near the Endzone with two fat +250 duo.   Run LT, TD.   Now were back at the game.

 

Andy throws a long desperate bomb to Sanu, Brooks completely loses track of the ball and Sanu catches it.  Dumb move.   Next play, Elam forgets where Greg Little is...missed tackle.  Near enzone.  TD by bengals with 57 seconds left.  

 

3 long hail mary.  Steve catches the ball *lightly* push a lineback? illoka?  and called interference.  Bad call? Game finally over.

 

*flacco fans* - FIRE DEAN PEES!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH HARBAUGH FIRE HIM! *

 

smh dumb!

[Alaska Alaska!]

Missed the game.... Was listening to it on the radio and I have it on dvr but I'm not even sure I want to watch it.

You should watch it so you can suffer with the rest of us :  (

[jazz1988]

4.53 at the combine, but yea... I underestimated his speed a bit. It's not like he's a burner though, and Webb shouldnt be that far behind him.

 

it look like  Webb bit on a double move or throught Greg Little wasn't going to run deep but a comeback route instead. 

[jimmypowder]

I wanna know why on 4 and 1 , Ngata wasn't in the middle and was left on the end .

That is dumb dumb dumb .

[ravensdfan]

I felt overall we played way too desperate starting this game.  

Right off the bat, bengals caught 2 overthrown catches from Sanu and one other receiver.  7 points...(lose jimmy)

 

Then our turn @ offense...endzone 2nd &1....stuffed run...3rd&1...stuffed run...4&1 run short pass to aiken(overthrown)...no good.

 

Defense stops bengals to 3rd and out

 

Offense...short dump pass 2x.  Then Joe looks for long ball.  No one there.  Sacked for 8 yard loss.  Field goal..

 

Yanda gets injured (Urshel as RT...?)  2 passes to Torrey (torrey gets int from Bengals secondary)  Torrey gets slant pass(doesnt even try) Pass to steve at slant (successful 1st down from 3rd and 7)  Forsett runs +25 yards on one play.

Then...Monroe gets injured and replaced with Hurst.   Succesful long field goal.    

 

so 6-7.

 

We get a quick 3rd and out from Andy.

 

Offense gets great protection at 40 yards.  Long wait, Joe throws a long ball at 2nd&9 with plenty of time to Torrey.  Under throws heavily.  INT to Bengals linebacker.    

 

Andy throws toward CJ mosley, penalty for batting the ball at perfect time (dumb call).   Andy goes to 20yards near endzone.  Run Run TD....6-14

 

Ravens Offense. Great run games with KO/Monroe back at left.  3rd and 2nd, joe throws another stupid INT STRAIGHT TO Adam Jones.   (again! toward torrey, but no where near him this time)

 

Back to back INT in less than 3 passing plays.  Torrey finally acts like his 'injured' out of nowhere.  His gone.   Bengals FG 6-17.

 

Even with all the switch-a-roo at Oline, Joe was getting great protection vs. Bengals lineman.  Bad decisions from Joe not using his head.  Really bad playing desperate forcing passes that wont work at 4&1 and short situation.

 

GAME OVER.

 

I think Joe has a TERRIBLE TIME evaluating the flow of what works and what doesn't at the Bengals game.  The players that worked are Steve &Lorenzo.  Both those players were gashing Bengals left and right.  Instead, Joe stuck to his guts and constantly kept working on things that would NOT work(i.e. Torrey)..    

 

 

Oh but wait...Haloti & Daryl somehow makes an outstanding play and goes all the way near the Endzone with two fat +250 duo.   Run LT, TD.   Now were back at the game.

 

Andy throws a long desperate bomb to Sanu, Brooks completely loses track of the ball and Sanu catches it.  Dumb move.   Next play, Elam forgets where Greg Little is...missed tackle.  Near enzone.  TD by bengals with 57 seconds left.  

 

3 long hail mary.  Steve catches the ball *lightly* push a lineback? illoka?  and called interference.  Bad call? Game finally over.

 

*flacco fans* - FIRE DEAN PEES!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH HARBAUGH FIRE HIM! *

 

smh dumb!

 

4th and 1 was NOT overthrown. That is a catch any receiver should make all day long. Placed perfectly. Everyone but YOU sees that - that includes non Ravens' fans and media pundits.

 

After awhile, you have to stop making excuses for Torrey. Five of the seven INTs are on passes to Torrey. Never ever ever fights for ANY ball. Even on that INT, while I still make that Joe's mistake, Torrey should have made some attempt to comeback for the ball - like any normal WR. He's not a rookie anymore - he just still plays like one.

 

The 2nd INT isn't really anyone's fault exactly. They took Torrey out and Joe threw the ball where Torrey was supposed to be on a timing route. Had his bell rung so didn't make any attempt to tackle the guy or fight for the ball but can't blame him for that one.

 

The almost INT into the flatt was all Flacco - trying to make something happen while being tackled.

 

The other almost INT (that Smith Sr saved) Smith Sr also caused by giving up on the route. Have no idea why - but he did.

 

Flacco can have all day long to throw - and at times did - but it does no good when not a single member of our receiving corps knows how to get open. The man extended plays all day long for naught.

 

Flacco didn't play his best - but our receivers played far worse outside of Camp until his injury & Smith Sr, who then later they just double teamed and our other receivers STILL couldn't gain any separation.

[Ravenseconbeast]

4th and 1 was NOT overthrown. That is a catch any receiver should make all day long. Placed perfectly. Everyone but YOU sees that - that includes non Ravens' fans and media pundits. Nope.  Looking at it right now.   Aiken extended and streched his arm all the way to the left. It bounced off his finger tips.  

 

After awhile, you have to stop making excuses for Torrey. Five of the seven INTs are on passes to Torrey. Never ever ever fights for ANY ball. Even on that INT, while I still make that Joe's mistake, Torrey should have made some attempt to comeback for the ball - like any normal WR. He's not a rookie anymore - he just still plays like one.   Not making excuses about Torrey.  Both Flacco and Torrey stunk like donkey meat.  I have no idea why Flacco is constantly aiming at Torrey when it wasnt clearly working.  

 

The 2nd INT isn't really anyone's fault exactly. They took Torrey out and Joe threw the ball where Torrey was supposed to be on a timing route. Had his bell rung so didn't make any attempt to tackle the guy or fight for the ball but can't blame him for that one.

 

The almost INT into the flatt was all Flacco - trying to make something happen while being tackled.

 

The other almost INT (that Smith Sr saved) Smith Sr also caused by giving up on the route. Have no idea why - but he did.

 

Flacco can have all day long to throw - and at times did - but it does no good when not a single member of our receiving corps knows how to get open. The man extended plays all day long for naught.   Wrong.  Steve, Aiken, Campanero, LT, Forsett were doing well.  It made a lot of sense to start targetting these guys more than Torrey especially when were are constantly on 3rd and short situation.

 

Flacco didn't play his best - but our receivers played far worse outside of Camp until his injury & Smith Sr, who then later they just double teamed and our other receivers STILL couldn't gain any separation.  

[ravensdfan]

 

4th and 1 was NOT overthrown. That is a catch any receiver should make all day long. Placed perfectly. Everyone but YOU sees that - that includes non Ravens' fans and media pundits. Nope.  Looking at it right now.   Aiken extended and streched his arm all the way to the left. It bounced off his finger tips.  

 

After awhile, you have to stop making excuses for Torrey. Five of the seven INTs are on passes to Torrey. Never ever ever fights for ANY ball. Even on that INT, while I still make that Joe's mistake, Torrey should have made some attempt to comeback for the ball - like any normal WR. He's not a rookie anymore - he just still plays like one.   Not making excuses about Torrey.  Both Flacco and Torrey stunk like donkey meat.  I have no idea why Flacco is constantly aiming at Torrey when it wasnt clearly working.  

 

The 2nd INT isn't really anyone's fault exactly. They took Torrey out and Joe threw the ball where Torrey was supposed to be on a timing route. Had his bell rung so didn't make any attempt to tackle the guy or fight for the ball but can't blame him for that one.

 

The almost INT into the flatt was all Flacco - trying to make something happen while being tackled.

 

The other almost INT (that Smith Sr saved) Smith Sr also caused by giving up on the route. Have no idea why - but he did.

 

Flacco can have all day long to throw - and at times did - but it does no good when not a single member of our receiving corps knows how to get open. The man extended plays all day long for naught.   Wrong.  Steve, Aiken, Campanero, LT, Forsett were doing well.  It made a lot of sense to start targetting these guys more than Torrey especially when were are constantly on 3rd and short situation.

 

Flacco didn't play his best - but our receivers played far worse outside of Camp until his injury & Smith Sr, who then later they just double teamed and our other receivers STILL couldn't gain any separation.  

 

 

Other than Camp & Smith Sr - you're wrong. Just because they catch a pass here & there doesn't mean they're getting open on any consistent basis. They weren't.

 

As for the 4th and 1 - you're wrong. The rest of the civilized world knows Aiken should have caught that pass & it was placed perfectly where it needed to be. It's just you.

 

Not excusing Flacco, mind you. He did not play well - long ball wasn't there but you're blaming Flacco for 2 bombs on 2nd&2 and 3rd&2 that I don't think were on him. Might have been - but seemed more like those were called from the start - on Kubiak - definitely should have ran on that 3rd down.

 

As for Pees, his safety cocoon doesn't work. Period. You can state why he does that, and some are valid, but it is basically giving up. Let's at least try & be aggressive. If we fail, then we fail but at least we tried rather than just kicking back & letting them march down the field.

[Ravenseconbeast]

 

As for Pees, his safety cocoon doesn't work. Period. You can state why he does that, and some are valid, but it is basically giving up. Let's at least try & be aggressive. If we fail, then we fail but at least we tried rather than just kicking back & letting them march down the field.

 

That's such a generic statement.  Just like saying "pees defense is vanilla...go "aggressive".   I thought our D did more than a fair job.  The only time they got lost was a desperate long throw by Andy to Sanu at the 4th quarter that Matt & Brooks forgot to track him down.  

 

The stats says Dean's assignment should've worked.   The 2 INTs were converted to 10 points.  Our early endozne pass (instead of FG) came out to zero.  We wouldve won.  Other than the incredibly lucky plays by Sanu at the start and the horrible job at 4th quarter from Elam & Brooks.  We kept both the run game and Andy from doing any major damage to our team.

[Edgar]

I am so tired of watching our offense sputter and labor on the road. Every throw is contested and in need of being a laser with pin point accuracy to be completed. No one is in space or free (open). 

  We get to watch the exact opposite happen against us. The bengals basically ran a pitch and catch 7 on 7 drill during the 4th quarter.

  I am done with everyone talking about Flacco's arm strength. His accuracy on the deep ball is suspect- overthrew an open Aiken.

[ravensdfan]

That's such a generic statement.  Just like saying "pees defense is vanilla...go "aggressive".   I thought our D did more than a fair job.  The only time they got lost was a desperate long throw by Andy to Sanu at the 4th quarter that Matt & Brooks forgot to track him down.  

 

The stats says Dean's assignment should've worked.   The 2 INTs were converted to 10 points.  Our early endozne pass (instead of FG) came out to zero.  We wouldve won.  Other than the incredibly lucky plays by Sanu at the start and the horrible job at 4th quarter from Elam & Brooks.  We kept both the run game and Andy from doing any major damage to our team.

 

Bobbled catch brought in from Sanu never happens if our defense isn't playing 10 yds off their man. He would have been hit before he could have brought in that catch.

 

What you call the desperation throw also never happens if we're not playing that soft D yet again. Yes I understand it was misplayed by the players - but a big part of why these guys are always always always open is Pees scheme.

 

Way too many 3rd and longs were completed - because we were 10 yds or better off their receivers.

[Static]

Ravensdfan goin in, and everything said is correct. Our receivers are pathetic and so is our defensive scheme. 

 

 

Our front 7 has the personnel to not suck, at this point the secondary looks destined for mediocrity though. 

 

Gotta feel bad for Mosley, Ngata, Suggs, Mcphee when they get pressure but the ball just goes over their heads for easy touchdowns.

[Dewy101]

I wanna know why on 4 and 1 , Ngata wasn't in the middle and was left on the end .

That is dumb dumb dumb .

Yeah i was confused about that too. He was the best player on the field yesterday