Is Joe Flacco Becoming a Good QB?

[1/28/01]

Peyton just had his 3rd game in a row with 2 INTs. Such an inconsistent piece of garbage right? I mean, that would be the reasonable conclusion from the logic in passing the judgement on Flacco's consistency.

And don't even talk to me about yards and TDs because Peyton is a diva and a stat padding god. Wouldn't even come out in garbage time cuz he had to have those stats last week and because of his stat chasing - stayed true to his nickel and dime crap when his team needed to go vertical.

over 300 yds and 7 pts - nothing but pure stat padding.

The Ravens never pad stats ever. That 5 TD game should have been 7 or more. I mean we scored them in the first 16 mins but we went into "just do enough to win" mentality we always do and ran the ball. Inside the 10? Run the 90% of the time for the TD.

Fantasy football has skewed the measure of a good player, not just QB either.

Go Titans!

[The Mom Gene]

We have skewered this league so badly....  We have taken the glory of a pass happy league, done nothing more than glorified the deep ball ... and done so much to change It, that teams actually would rather have their QB run the "Read Option"  and throw downfield... than stay in the pocket and throw screens and slants... They're just not exciting enough... We are grading QB's on whether they are 7 for 33;  or 27 for 33....  and that QBR is just crazy.  We have almost completely omitted the fact that so many teams actually DO succeed with a fairly balanced running/passing game.... that they are starting to look to that more, because as their QB's age, they just need to win.... So they revert back to that....  We have NEVER relied on the deep passing game...  We have stuck by our running, ground pounding game, that so many teams have abandoned...  like the Seahawks may wind up doing with that whole "read option" thing with Wilson...  and possibly dumping their ground pounding Beast.....  Instead of keeping to the formula like the Ravens do.

 

I'm just curious how many passes Manning threw yesterday that were more than 40 yards...  heck more than 30 yards.  His arm is garbage anymore...  He has no strength.  And yes, without his best receivers on the roster, he pushes it and he tosses INT's and looks as lost as Joe does sometimes....

 

Bottom line is.....  We rely too heavily on the QBR...  instead of W's and L's.

[ravensdfan]

There is no proof Flacco can survive without a running game and defense.

 

Proved in 2013. Garbage O line. Worst run game in football. Worst receiving corps in football. Went 8-8, one win away from the playoffs. Questionable defense, unreliable defense.

 

Our defense gave up six late leads in games last year. That doesn't count the games where the offense came in and tied it up and the defense gave up the winning score. Only the ones where we had the lead and the defense failed. One game where we had a 17-3 lead. Two of those games the offense came back and won - four were losses because the opposing team scored with a minute to go or in the last 2 minutes.

 

Yet, we went 8-8 and missed the playoffs by one win. Call it what you will but that is pretty good QB play with all those things against you.

[The Mom Gene]

Proved in 2013. Garbage O line. Worst run game in football. Worst receiving corps in football. Went 8-8, one win away from the playoffs. Questionable defense, unreliable defense.

 

Our defense gave up six late leads in games last year. That doesn't count the games where the offense came in and tied it up and the defense gave up the winning score. Only the ones where we had the lead and the defense failed. One game where we had a 17-3 lead. Two of those games the offense came back and won - four were losses because the opposing team scored with a minute to go or in the last 2 minutes.

 

Yet, we went 8-8 and missed the playoffs by one win. Call it what you will but that is pretty good QB play with all those things against you.

and I also believe that 4 of those games were lost by 3 or less points.

 

Bottom line is......  Joe Wins Games too.

[arnie_uk]

Proved in 2013. Garbage O line. Worst run game in football. Worst receiving corps in football. Went 8-8, one win away from the playoffs. Questionable defense, unreliable defense.

 

Our defense gave up six late leads in games last year. That doesn't count the games where the offense came in and tied it up and the defense gave up the winning score. Only the ones where we had the lead and the defense failed. One game where we had a 17-3 lead. Two of those games the offense came back and won - four were losses because the opposing team scored with a minute to go or in the last 2 minutes.

 

Yet, we went 8-8 and missed the playoffs by one win. Call it what you will but that is pretty good QB play with all those things against you.

flacco was horrible last year as well

[redrum52]

Peyton just had his 3rd game in a row with 2 INTs. Such an inconsistent piece of garbage right? I mean, that would be the reasonable conclusion from the logic in passing the judgement on Flacco's consistency.

And don't even talk to me about yards and TDs because Peyton is a diva and a stat padding god. Wouldn't even come out in garbage time cuz he had to have those stats last week and because of his stat chasing - stayed true to his nickel and dime crap when his team needed to go vertical.

over 300 yds and 7 pts - nothing but pure stat padding.

The Ravens never pad stats ever. That 5 TD game should have been 7 or more. I mean we scored them in the first 16 mins but we went into "just do enough to win" mentality we always do and ran the ball. Inside the 10? Run the 90% of the time for the TD.

Fantasy football has skewed the measure of a good player, not just QB either.

Agree with this. Wouldn't call him a stat padder though but that's up to opinion. And didn't we call a timeout when we had no chance of winning against the Steelers? Not putting the play calling on Joe but we kept throwing for no reason.

[redrum52]

flacco was horrible last year as well

Thank you. The defense catches hell and some games rightfully so, but many games we were only in cause of the defense keeping the game close. Not all Joe's fault at all but many games his play didn't help. Last year did beyond us that vikings game though.

[ravensdfan]

flacco was horrible last year as well

 

his completion percentage was 58.96, 3912 yds. 19 TDs 22 INTs. Certainly the turnovers were horrible - I don't have the numbers on drops from last year - but we all know that was up there. He did not play his best - wasn't saying that at all. But with nothing surrounding him at all - he won 8 games. We should have gone closer to 2-14 with all that was wrong with this team. We didn't and I could only find one win I could credit to the defensive play. That was the point.

 

No QB in the league performs without surrounding talent. Not a single one. See what happened to Peyton when his top guys go down? See what happened to Brady until he got Gronk back? That is just a fact. A QB is not an island despite what some like to claim.

[Tank 92]

flacco was horrible last year as well

 

 

lol!  Hard to complete a pass when everyone in the stadium knows a pass is coming, AND you're lying on your back!

[ravensdfan]

Agree with this. Wouldn't call him a stat padder though but that's up to opinion. And didn't we call a timeout when we had no chance of winning against the Steelers? Not putting the play calling on Joe but we kept throwing for no reason.

 

That last series I didn't even think Flacco should have been in there but there are certain things all HCs do that defy logic sometimes. One of them is keep throwing with no chance of winning and take your TOs. They all do that in the final minutes. Dont know that I consider that stat padding - more like attempting to make the game appear closer than it really was and end on a high note perhaps.

 

Stat padding is leaving Peyton in with that ginormous lead - heck his back-up was all ready to take the field. That is most certainly stat padding.

[beanfigger]

Last year was, indeed, Flacco's worst year. It happened to coincide with the worst team he ever played with in Baltimore, as well. Still, we finished a .500, one win shy of the playoffs. The point is that .500 is our floor as long as we have Flacco. The ceiling is obvious from two years ago. Flacco, I believe, will never play in a meaningless game in his career in terms of having been prematurely eliminated from the playoffs. He hasn't, yet. Of the current QBs who have started every game of their careers, only youngsters Russell Wilson and Andrew Luck can make that claim. Even if we add in the QBs that did not start right away and were allowed to mature and grow before being thrown into the fire, I can only think of about three other QBs that can be added to that list (Brady, Rodgers, Kaepernick). Having a QB who gives you a chance to win every single year is a luxury that can't be overstated. Smile everyone. We have a franchise QB who wins, and will continue to win for years to come. If he's overpaid than every QB making over $90M is overpaid because none of them are winning Superbowls since signing their big deals. At least ours puts us in contention on a very consistent basis (maybe one of the most consistent QBs in the league, in spite of what most like to say, because what are you hoping for aside from winning?). If winning is what you are paying for, Flacco is worth the price. If you want to pay for video game stats and jersey sales, then pick the next Manziel and bask in the glow of mediocrity for years to come.

[arnie_uk]

his completion percentage was 58.96, 3912 yds. 19 TDs 22 INTs. Certainly the turnovers were horrible - I don't have the numbers on drops from last year - but we all know that was up there. He did not play his best - wasn't saying that at all. But with nothing surrounding him at all - he won 8 games. We should have gone closer to 2-14 with all that was wrong with this team. We didn't and I could only find one win I could credit to the defensive play. That was the point.

No QB in the league performs without surrounding talent. Not a single one. See what happened to Peyton when his top guys go down? See what happened to Brady until he got Gronk back? That is just a fact. A QB is not an island despite what some like to claim.

awh cmon the whole team was awful last year. Was flacco the main reason, clearly no, it was the oline, but he stunk it up as well, as a whole.

Last year should just be binned and never discussed again for everyone.

[arnie_uk]

lol! Hard to complete a pass when everyone in the stadium knows a pass is coming, AND you're lying on your back!

all true, but it doesn't mean he didn't play pretty awful as whole last year. Virtually every player did

[redrum52]

nah man 22 int and 8 fumbles is considerd pretty good QB play here lol

also funny nobody mention about the games he made the ravens lose lol

like that 5 int debacle against the bills,

that 3 int debacle even when the defense forced 4 picks against the bengals.

manage to score 0 points in 3 quarters against the pats and throwing a pick early.

manage to gift wrap 10 points to the bears in a game lost by 3.

or should we talk about how in 9 quarters only scoring a whopping 19 points combined against packers , steelers and browns lol.

the whole offense was terrible but its everyone else fault except the guy who plays the most important position and said to be leader of that unit lol.

Lmao. It's the defenses fault for giving up the half point leads with 7 mins left in the game.

[Tru11]

Lmao. It's the defenses fault for giving up the half point leads with 7 mins left in the game.

 

yup people think football is won playing only half a quarter lol.

 

defense plays good 3,5 quarters , offense only 0,5 a quarter  yet its the defense fault game is lost .....

[The Mom Gene]

lol!  Hard to complete a pass when everyone in the stadium knows a pass is coming, AND you're lying on your back!

Yup

[BmoreBird22]

yup people think football is won playing only half a quarter lol.

 

defense plays good 3,5 quarters , offense only 0,5 a quarter  yet its the defense fault game is lost .....

Well, when you've got a lead with less than half a quarter left to go and you blow it without giving the offense a chance to respond, yeah, it usually is going to be your fault

[The Raven]

awh cmon the whole team was awful last year. Was flacco the main reason, clearly no, it was the oline, but he stunk it up as well, as a whole.

Last year should just be binned and never discussed again for everyone.

 

Thanks for pointing out what should be obvious

[The Raven]

You can't say out of one side of your mouth that Flacco can't play well without a run game and a defense and out of the other side say Peyton Manning doesn't need top notch receivers and an OL.

 

I've said it over and over. Have Manning and Flacco switch places and go see how much of a difference it'll make. Be honest and actually think about it. Do you truly, honestly think Manning would be having the same success with Flacco's supporting cast? Do you truly, honestly think Flacco would be just as inconsistent with Manning's supporting cast? I know the answer. Do you?

[1/28/01]

You can't say out of one side of your mouth that Flacco can't play well without a run game and a defense and out of the other side say Peyton Manning doesn't need top notch receivers and an OL.

I've said it over and over. Have Manning and Flacco switch places and go see how much of a difference it'll make. Be honest and actually think about it. Do you truly, honestly think Manning would be having the same success with Flacco's supporting cast? Do you truly, honestly think Flacco would be just as inconsistent with Manning's supporting cast? I know the answer. Do you?

Peyton is a better QB, so no, they wouldn't be destined for the same stats, wins, trophies etc if they changed places. Would one fair better and one fair worse if the switch was made? Sure, but not to the crazy extent that some like to say...like it would almost be an even swap for swap. Peyton is one of the smartest to EVER play the position. The other is not. Honestly, to mention Manning and Flacco in the same post isn't even fair. I like Flacco...really, I do. But to hear him compared to Brady and Manning is ludicrous. Whether you like Manning or Brady, they are first ballot HOF'ers. Flacco most certainly is not. Let's be fair to Flacco and stop mentioning those two when talking about him.

[arnie_uk]

Thanks for pointing out what should be obvious

but its not obvious. Ravensdfan just said flacco won 8 games last year, not the team, but flacco.

I mean, I'll defend flacco to the death, but that post was just to far.

[The Raven]

Peyton is a better QB, so no, they wouldn't be destined for the same stats, wins, trophies etc if they changed places. Would one fair better and one fair worse if the switch was made? Sure, but not to the crazy extent that some like to say...like it would almost be an even swap for swap. Peyton is one of the smartest to EVER play the position. The other is not. Honestly, to mention Manning and Flacco in the same post isn't even fair. I like Flacco...really, I do. But to hear him compared to Brady and Manning is ludicrous. Whether you like Manning or Brady, they are first ballot HOF'ers. Flacco most certainly is not. Let's be fair to Flacco and stop mentioning those two when talking about him.

 

I'm not saying the stats would be completely even, but I'm saying they could be comparable.

 

And yes, I will definitely compare Joe to Brady because Brady, for most of his career, has been a glorified game manager who throws screens, drags, and crossers to Welker/Edelman and throws the ball up to Moss/Gronk/Hernandez. Frankly, Brady is the most overrated player, not just quarterback, of all time. He's always had a fortress protecting him and he's always had plenty of weapons to get YACs or to win jump balls. Always. Never was there a time he didn't have those things. He even has a run game.

 

Who else is there to compare Flacco too? In my opinion, Manning is the benchmark for a QB. Therefore, QBs should be compared to him. To me, Flacco is right behind the big four, at five or six, with Roethelisberger and Rivers as his competition.

 

but its not obvious. Ravensdfan just said flacco won 8 games last year, not the team, but flacco.

I mean, I'll defend flacco to the death, but that post was just to far.

 

Surprisingly agreed. I'll give a lot of credit to the defense for last year. We should have been blown out some games. Flacco didn't win us those eight games.

[1/28/01]

I'm not saying the stats would be completely even, but I'm saying they could be comparable.

And yes, I will definitely compare Joe to Brady because Brady, for most of his career, has been a glorified game manager who throws screens, drags, and crossers to Welker/Edelman and throws the ball up to Moss/Gronk/Hernandez. Frankly, Brady is the most overrated player, not just quarterback, of all time. He's always had a fortress protecting him and he's always had plenty of weapons to get YACs or to win jump balls. Always. Never was there a time he didn't have those things. He even has a run game.

Who else is there to compare Flacco too? In my opinion, Manning is the benchmark for a QB. Therefore, QBs should be compared to him. To me, Flacco is right behind the big four, at five or six, with Roethelisberger and Rivers as his competition.

Surprisingly agreed. I'll give a lot of credit to the defense for last year. We should have been blown out some games. Flacco didn't win us those eight games.

That's obviously your prerogative, I just find it hilarious to compare a guy like Flacco to Manning, possibly the greatest QB brain ever...at the very least of the modern day era. Just because a player is the best or benchmark, doesnt mean others should be compared to them. Are you going to compare Geno Smith to Manning? I get what you're saying and I respect the opinion, but I disagree.

As for Brady, I have ALWAYS said he is massively overrated, but still feel at this point in Flacco's career, its a bit of a laugher to mention him in the same breath as well.

[K-Dog]

I laugh at people who say Flacco played HORRIBLE last year.

[The Mom Gene]

I laugh at people who say Flacco played HORRIBLE last year.

Me too, K-dog

[1/28/01]

I laugh at people who say Flacco played HORRIBLE last year.

He did. Along with the rest of the offense.

[1/28/01]

You guys are funny.

[K-Dog]

He did. Along with the rest of the offense.

Well your definition of horrible, must be different from mine.  ( See Kyle Boller or any other Ravens QB prior )  ( or any one of thousands of other NFL QB's who have played much much worse )

[The Mom Gene]

but its not obvious. Ravensdfan just said flacco won 8 games last year, not the team, but flacco.

I mean, I'll defend flacco to the death, but that post was just to far.

While "technically" you are correct...  And if that's the case, when people say Flacco won 8 games, well, in so many other worlds, and other posters say, I guess he lost us 8 too... You knew what she meant... and so did I.    So, well then,  NO other QB should ever get credit for winning a Super Bowl. 

[The Mom Gene]

It all sounds ridiculous to me....