Is Joe Flacco Becoming a Good QB?

[arnie_uk]

Why are people complaining when he's having his best year?

[redrum52]

Why are people complaining when he's having his best year?

If you look at o line stats, they're having a pretty good year as well, but people still complain about them...

[arnie_uk]

If you look at o line stats, they're having a pretty good year as well, but people still complain about them...

they were until the last 2/3 weeks.

The biggest issue on offense thus far is our pass catchers, or lack of pass catchers

[1/28/01]

Why are people complaining when he's having his best year?

Take out the bloated 5 TD game and is he really? He has 17 TDs in 10 games, but almost 1/3rd are from 1 game. I would like to see alot more than this, especially with a very stout run game and pretty effective (overall) oline. Haven't looked it up recently, but isn't in the.bottom 5 or so in sacks this year?

[arnie_uk]

Take out the bloated 5 TD game and is he really? He has 17 TDs in 10 games, but almost 1/3rd are from 1 game. I would like to see alot more than this, especially with a very stout run game and pretty effective (overall) oline. Haven't looked it up recently, but isn't in the.bottom 5 or so in sacks this year?

if your doing that you probably add about 500 yards and 3 tds from drops.

You can't pick and choose.

But back to topic. Yes i think he is, he's getting the ball out faster, quicker decisions, better footwork. And really only 2 awful plays i can point to. Cinci game one and that awful attempt at throwing the ball away against pitts that resulted in interception.

He's play is just better, im not sure if the stats reflect it though. I don't even know how many yards tds or ints he has this year. Im not a massive stats fan.

Same way I have no idea of torreys stats but i know he was awful early and has played better recently while Smith sr has disappeared.

[rmcjacket23]

Take out the bloated 5 TD game and is he really? He has 17 TDs in 10 games, but almost 1/3rd are from 1 game. I would like to see alot more than this, especially with a very stout run game and pretty effective (overall) oline. Haven't looked it up recently, but isn't in the.bottom 5 or so in sacks this year?

Yes, but even without the TDs, his yardage and completion percentage would likely be career highs.

[beanfigger]

Take out the bloated 5 TD game and is he really? He has 17 TDs in 10 games, but almost 1/3rd are from 1 game. I would like to see alot more than this, especially with a very stout run game and pretty effective (overall) oline. Haven't looked it up recently, but isn't in the.bottom 5 or so in sacks this year?

So it's all about TDs? We're one of the few teams that still runs the ball three times in a row on occasion inside the ten. How many rushing tds resulted from great drives where Flacco was like 5/6 and converted three third downs? Are you really that shortsighted now that one stat on paper tells you all you need to know about how well the QB is playing this year? And after I and others defended you for being rational...

(I hope you can tell I'm kidding there at the end.)

[omar586]

Is Joe Flacco really becoming a good Quaterback or is Gary Kubiak making him look good?

 

Peyton Manning did Great no matter who the Offensive Coordinator was.

Flacco is the best QB we've ever had, he's win SB and mvp. so 

[BmoreBird22]

So it's all about TDs? We're one of the few teams that still runs the ball three times in a row on occasion inside the ten. How many rushing tds resulted from great drives where Flacco was like 5/6 and converted three third downs? Are you really that shortsighted now that one stat on paper tells you all you need to know about how well the QB is playing this year? And after I and others defended you for being rational...

(I hope you can tell I'm kidding there at the end.)

Yeah, the problem with looking at the stats is that the Ravens really don't do much to attack the end zone with the pass when they get into the red zone. I'm not sure what the statistic looks like now, but before Baltimore, Kubiak threw to the end zone less than any other team inside the red zone.

[The Raven]

Take out the bloated 5 TD game and is he really? He has 17 TDs in 10 games, but almost 1/3rd are from 1 game. I would like to see alot more than this, especially with a very stout run game and pretty effective (overall) oline. Haven't looked it up recently, but isn't in the.bottom 5 or so in sacks this year?

 

Just saying, you could say this about a lot of players. In Suggs' DPOY season, he had nine of his sacks in three games. A lot of players, even QBs, have bloated stats.

[1/28/01]

if your doing that you probably add about 500 yards and 3 tds from drops.

You can't pick and choose.

But back to topic. Yes i think he is, he's getting the ball out faster, quicker decisions, better footwork. And really only 2 awful plays i can point to. Cinci game one and that awful attempt at throwing the ball away against pitts that resulted in interception.

He's play is just better, im not sure if the stats reflect it though. I don't even know how many yards tds or ints he has this year. Im not a massive stats fan.

Same way I have no idea of torreys stats but i know he was awful early and has played better recently while Smith sr has disappeared.

Every QB has drops, but not every QB has a 5 TD game. I really don't care, honestly. He is what he is. He is good enough for us to win and that means he's fine for the Ravens. I'd prefer more than fine (and I am sure all others would as well), but I'll take it considering our past. I keep saying it and I will say it again. He is good, not great, he's inconsistent, but can go on a tear for a half, a game or even a few games, but he's not "elite"...whatever that means.

If he ever becomes consistent (as a result of finding it in himself, getting a better oline, receivers that fight for balls or whatever) than he's a top 5 guy in the league. Aside from the 4 margaritas from Pepitos, what gets me going is the relentless apologies given from the "lovers" or "homers"...not my titles, but the boards. He can be critiqued and criticized. Margarita 5 here I come.

[PoeDinkum]

Every QB has drops, but not every QB has a 5 TD game. I really don't care, honestly. He is what he is. He is good enough for us to win and that means he's fine for the Ravens. I'd prefer more than fine (and I am sure all others would as well), but I'll take it considering our past. I keep saying it and I will say it again. He is good, not great, he's inconsistent, but can go on a tear for a half, a game or even a few games, but he's not "elite"...whatever that means.

If he ever becomes consistent (as a result of finding it in himself, getting a better oline, receivers that fight for balls or whatever) than he's a top 5 guy in the league. Aside from the 4 margaritas from Pepitos, what gets me going is the relentless apologies given from the "lovers" or "homers"...not my titles, but the boards. He can be critiqued and criticized. Margarita 5 here I come.

Absolutely well put and TRUE. I don't understand why people can't understand this, regardless of how many times it is repeated in different ways on these forums.

[BmoreBird22]

Absolutely well put and TRUE. I don't understand why people can't understand this, regardless of how many times it is repeated in different ways on these forums.

because it's pure opinion and no matter how many times you try to say it, it's usually based on cherry picked stats

[1/28/01]

because it's pure opinion and no matter how many times you try to say it, it's usually based on cherry picked stats

Opinion or not, was anything I said way off base?

[Militant X 1]

Every QB has drops, but not every QB has a 5 TD game. I really don't care, honestly. He is what he is. He is good enough for us to win and that means he's fine for the Ravens. I'd prefer more than fine (and I am sure all others would as well), but I'll take it considering our past. I keep saying it and I will say it again. He is good, not great, he's inconsistent, but can go on a tear for a half, a game or even a few games, but he's not "elite"...whatever that means.

If he ever becomes consistent (as a result of finding it in himself, getting a better oline, receivers that fight for balls or whatever) than he's a top 5 guy in the league. Aside from the 4 margaritas from Pepitos, what gets me going is the relentless apologies given from the "lovers" or "homers"...not my titles, but the boards. He can be critiqued and criticized. Margarita 5 here I come.

 

We all have our own standard for what is or isn't "elite".  I agree!  Joe is not elite...at least not to me!  But I want him to be and that is what drives me nuts about his performance at times...especially in primetime and on the road.

[GrimCoconut]

Joe Flacco is good enough to win a Super Bowl despite an inconsistent defense and an ineffective RB as long as he has someone to get him on a rhythm that he can trust. Unlike Wilson, Flacco can survive without a great RB and a great defense. I think Flacco is a top ten QB. We've seen what happens to every QB when they lose their weapons in whom they have trust. I don't think there's a lot separating Flacco from the elite QB to whom he's compared.

[3-4ravdef509]

Joe Flacco is good enough to win a Super Bowl despite an inconsistent defense and an ineffective RB as long as he has someone to get him on a rhythm that he can trust. Unlike Wilson, Flacco can survive without a great RB and a great defense. I think Flacco is a top ten QB. We've seen what happens to every QB when they lose their weapons in whom they have trust. I don't think there's a lot separating Flacco from the elite QB to whom he's compared.

How do you know? It's not like he's already won.....oh wait

[redrum52]

Joe Flacco is good enough to win a Super Bowl despite an inconsistent defense and an ineffective RB as long as he has someone to get him on a rhythm that he can trust. Unlike Wilson, Flacco can survive without a great RB and a great defense. I think Flacco is a top ten QB. We've seen what happens to every QB when they lose their weapons in whom they have trust. I don't think there's a lot separating Flacco from the elite QB to whom he's compared.

There is no proof Flacco can survive without a running game and defense.

[3-4ravdef509]

There is no proof Flacco can survive without a running game and defense.

Survive doesn't mean light it up or even thrive

[redrum52]

Survive doesn't mean light it up or even thrive

Then a lot of qbs can "survive" in that situation.

[GrimCoconut]

There is no proof Flacco can survive without a running game and defense.

He did it when we won the Super Bowl. The running game wasn't that good when we won the Super Bowl. We got really lucky with that Ray Rice play against San Diego. The defense was also pretty bad that year.

[redrum52]

He did it when we won the Super Bowl. The running game wasn't that good when we won the a Super Bowl. We got really lucky with that Ray Rice play against San Diego. The defense was also pretty bad that year.

11th in rush ypg and 12th in points allowed that season. 15th in pass ypg and 10th in scoring for what it's worth.

[GrimCoconut]

11th in rush ypg and 12th in points allowed that season. 15th in pass ypg and 10th in scoring for what it's worth.

If we're going to talk stats then how about how well Flacco did in his postseason run? I can do the stat thing as well but I'm not big on stats because I remember the games. I remember giving up chunks of yards. Yes, we were missing some talented players but we still got it done and a lot of it was because of Flacco. His weapons in Smith, Boldin, Jones and Pitta balled out and made plays and he connected on them. It wasn't on just the WR but both, and it's why we won the Super Bowl. We did not win that title because of Ray Rice or the rushing attack and I'd argue it wasn't because of a defense that nearly gave up the game after the blackout, though everyone looked off on the Ravens after that even Joe to an extent.

I'm not sure why it's so debatable. Joe is a great QB when he gets into a rhythm and his WR do their job and the OL does its job. He can drive down the field in high issue situations and make a Mile High Miracle when his WR does their job. It's really not any more complicated than that. He gets his fair share of blame and it's deserves at times and if not deserves it's earned because he's the QB and everyone blames the QB. Give him his due when he does well, and he won us the Super Bowl whether or not you admit it. It wasn't the defense or the rushing attack that won it.

[beanfigger]

Then a lot of qbs can "survive" in that situation.

And very, very few, if any, will dominate. This is ridiculous to act as though other QBs can just trot out there with the Jags roster and go to the playoffs and the pro bowl.

[BmoreBird22]

Opinion or not, was anything I said way off base?

I haven't read the entire conversation, so I'm not sure. I just know both sides like to cherry pick a lot of stats and then try to force-feed it down the throat of the other as if it is fact.

[BmoreBird22]

If we're going to talk stats then how about how well Flacco did in his postseason run? 

I'm going to shorten your post here, but for much of the season, the Ravens defense was downright deplorable. Does anyone remember how many 200 yard rushing games the Ravens allowed in a row? It was downright embarrassing at times. Not to mention how many injuries the defense had. It was a miracle the defense played as well as it did, albeit against some weak teams at times.

 

Just looking at the postseason and what Joe had to overcome, he was in two shootouts and had to overcome a deficit after half in NE, something I think maybe one or two teams had done to that point when Brady and Belicheck both play. This doesn't even account for the mega drop off Rice seems to have in the postseason. He fumbles once every like 20-25 TOUCHES and I think he fumbled three times in that postseason alone, correct? Yeah, Joe had to overcome quite a bit to win the Super Bowl.

[GrimCoconut]

I'm going to shorten your post here, but for much of the season, the Ravens defense was downright deplorable. Does anyone remember how many 200 yard rushing games the Ravens allowed in a row? It was downright embarrassing at times. Not to mention how many injuries the defense had. It was a miracle the defense played as well as it did, albeit against some weak teams at times.

Just looking at the postseason and what Joe had to overcome, he was in two shootouts and had to overcome a deficit after half in NE, something I think maybe one or two teams had done to that point when Brady and Belicheck both play. This doesn't even account for the mega drop off Rice seems to have in the postseason. He fumbles once every like 20-25 TOUCHES and I think he fumbled three times in that postseason alone, correct? Yeah, Joe had to overcome quite a bit to win the Super Bowl.

Yeah, that's why I hate to go off of stats. You did a better job of citing some specifics that I failed to remember. Thanks. It's hard to remember those kind of specifics for me at times, especially lately with all my classes.

The running game and defenses both struggled that year. I remember those games where we gave up all those rushing yards. People questioned whether we were the same anymore.

[BmoreBird22]

Yeah, that's why I hate to go off of stats. You did a better job of citing some specifics that I failed to remember. Thanks. It's hard to remember those kind of specifics for me at times, especially lately with all my classes.

The running game and defenses both struggled that year. I remember those games where we gave up all those rushing yards. People questioned whether we were the same anymore.

The final stats were good, but at one point, the Ravens were on their like fourth and fifth string inside linebackers and they struggled to beat any good team. Joe really carried that team along

[ravensdfan]

Peyton just had his 3rd game in a row with 2 INTs. Such an inconsistent piece of garbage right? I mean, that would be the reasonable conclusion from the logic in passing the judgement on Flacco's consistency.

 

And don't even talk to me about yards and TDs because Peyton is a diva and a stat padding god. Wouldn't even come out in garbage time cuz he had to have those stats last week and because of his stat chasing - stayed true to his nickel and dime crap when his team needed to go vertical.

 

over 300 yds and 7 pts - nothing but pure stat padding.

 

The Ravens never pad stats ever. That 5 TD game should have been 7 or more. I mean we scored them in the first 16 mins but we went into "just do enough to win" mentality we always do and ran the ball. Inside the 10? Run the 90% of the time for the TD.

 

Fantasy football has skewed the measure of a good player, not just QB either.

[1/28/01]

I haven't read the entire conversation, so I'm not sure. I just know both sides like to cherry pick a lot of stats and then try to force-feed it down the throat of the other as if it is fact.

Not from my side. I don't force-feed anything and am very levelheaded. Its all good, I don't care anymore about the debate. We all see what we see. And 7 years in, we have what we have. Just go out and win games!