Is Joe Flacco Becoming a Good QB?

[Tank 92]

He's improved on the fumbling greatly, but the ints should be going down in this system.  Also, that 5 td game is padding his stats, but we'll see how turns out.

 

Some pretty heavy names in the top 20 all time. Point being, if you don't throw picks now and again, you ain't throwin'.

NFL Career Passes Intercepted Leaders

Interceptions thrown

 

Rank Player (age), + - HOFer, Bold - Active Int Years Teams 1. Brett Favre 336  1991-2010  4TM 2. George Blanda+ 277  1949-1975  4TM 3. John Hadl 268  1962-1977  4TM 4. Vinny Testaverde 267  1987-2007  7TM 5. Fran Tarkenton+ 266  1961-1978  2TM 6. Norm Snead 257  1961-1976  5TM 7. Johnny Unitas+ 253  1956-1973  2TM 8. Dan Marino+ 252  1983-1999  mia 9. Y.A. Tittle+ 248  1948-1964  3TM 10. Jim Hart 247  1966-1984  2TM 11. Bobby Layne+ 243  1948-1962  4TM 12. Dan Fouts+ 242  1973-1987  sdg 13. Warren Moon+ 233  1984-2000  4TM 14. John Elway+ 226  1983-1998  den 15. John Brodie 224  1957-1973  sfo 16. Peyton Manning (38) 222  1998-2014  2TM   Ken Stabler 222  1970-1984  3TM 18. Babe Parilli 220  1952-1969  5TM   Joe Namath+ 220  1965-1977  2TM 20. Terry Bradshaw+ 210  1970-1983  pit

[Florida Ravens Fan]

Let's compare their rings, how many does Manning have? Oh right..................

[redrum52]

Let's compare their rings, how many does Manning have? Oh right..................

SO Eli is better than Peyton and Flacco. Trent over Fouts and Ray Rice is a better rb than Barry Sanders.

[Florida Ravens Fan]

SO Eli is better than Peyton and Flacco. Trent over Fouts and Ray Rice is a better rb than Barry Sanders.

Not what I meant at all! I meant he's good enough to win a SB who cares about comparing him to others he's our QB.

[TDubbs]

Becoming a Good QB? He was a good QB when he entered the league .. He became a Great QB when he won a SB and MVP. Flacco is what he is and I wish we would stop feeling the need to compare him to other QB's constantly. 

[redrum52]

Not what I meant at all! I meant he's good enough to win a SB who cares about comparing him to others he's our QB.

My bad then. I agree with you on the comparing him to other qbs. I think that's usually where these Flacco threads go wrong.

[Florida Ravens Fan]

To me Peyton is the best QB to ever play the game, but what counts is winning the SB and he's only done it once. Flacco is good can be great and horrible at times but it was good enough to win a SB, and I think he is going to lead the Ravens to more.

[rmcjacket23]

To me Peyton is the best QB to ever play the game, but what counts is winning the SB and he's only done it once. Flacco is good can be great and horrible at times but it was good enough to win a SB, and I think he is going to lead the Ravens to more.

But when it comes time to judge a players overall career, how many SBs you win (or even whether you win any at all) is just a small piece of the puzzle.

 

Legacies and career accomplishments aren't all about SB rings when it comes to the actual players. It might mean everything for the fans, but players value other things as well.

 

I've seen countless NFL players say that they play for the money and for benefit of their peers, and I've also seen plenty of players who would gladly take a HOF jacket over a SB ring.

[hawkprey]

I would put Flacco right behind Rodgers, Peyton and possibly Luck. He is unequivocally the best deep ball thrower, which is the most difficult thing as a quarterback to do. If there was a highlight reel of the best deep passes by any QB this season, they would all be Flacco's.

 

Whatever you think of him, we are competing for a Super Bowl this year and I expect to every year he's under center.

[1/28/01]

I would put Flacco right behind Rodgers, Peyton and possibly Luck. He is unequivocally the best deep ball thrower, which is the most difficult thing as a quarterback to do. If there was a highlight reel of the best deep passes by any QB this season, they would all be Flacco's.

Whatever you think of him, we are competing for a Super Bowl this year and I expect to every year he's under center.

I like Flacco, but his being labeled as the best deep ball QB in the league to me has always sorta irked me. I don't think he really throws an accurate deep ball. Perfect LOOKING deep ball? Sure, his spiral is NFL films worthy no doubt.

I mean, even just going off stats this year (yeah yeah, I know...stats), Flacco is 7th on completions over 20 yards (not deep ball IMO) and T10th over 40 yards. He routinely over or under throws receivers. Rarely do we see a receiver hit in stride and taking off for some YAC.

[Tiz]

But when it comes time to judge a players overall career, how many SBs you win (or even whether you win any at all) is just a small piece of the puzzle.

Legacies and career accomplishments aren't all about SB rings when it comes to the actual players. It might mean everything for the fans, but players value other things as well.

I've seen countless NFL players say that they play for the money and for benefit of their peers, and I've also seen plenty of players who would gladly take a HOF jacket over a SB ring.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/31/marino-still-thinks-about-not-winning-a-super-bowl/

Marino disagrees with you. It's not just fans that put so much on the Lombardi. Players are competitive and a championship is one way to say you abd your teammates were the best.

Or we can talk about elway and how important the sb wins were to him. Or bill Walsh or joe Montana yes there are some players who play strictly for money (Jamarcus) but only a fool would act like those people speak for every one.

[52N19]

joe wins. end of story.

[Inqui]

Peyton would have choked Cam by his 2nd year.

Haha, I won't say we can't relate.

[redrum52]

I like Flacco, but his being labeled as the best deep ball QB in the league to me has always sorta irked me. I don't think he really throws an accurate deep ball. Perfect LOOKING deep ball? Sure, his spiral is NFL films worthy no doubt.

I mean, even just going off stats this year (yeah yeah, I know...stats), Flacco is 7th on completions over 20 yards (not deep ball IMO) and T10th over 40 yards. He routinely over or under throws receivers. Rarely do we see a receiver hit in stride and taking off for some YAC.

He very rarely gets a guy where they can keep running with the ball. Like you said he throws a pretty deep ball but not the most accurate. Even short passes, it seems here's rarely throwing to where our guys should be but where they are. He doesn't lead which makes it harder for our wrs to make plays after the catch and we already see how difficult it is for some of them to just do that.

[beanfigger]

I like Flacco, but his being labeled as the best deep ball QB in the league to me has always sorta irked me. I don't think he really throws an accurate deep ball. Perfect LOOKING deep ball? Sure, his spiral is NFL films worthy no doubt.

I mean, even just going off stats this year (yeah yeah, I know...stats), Flacco is 7th on completions over 20 yards (not deep ball IMO) and T10th over 40 yards. He routinely over or under throws receivers. Rarely do we see a receiver hit in stride and taking off for some YAC.

But I think he is second in completion percentage for deep ball (aka accuracy), and that doesn't even take into account the fact that he is way ahead again this year in deep PI penalties drawn.

[1/28/01]

But I think he is second in completion percentage for deep ball (aka accuracy), and that doesn't even take into account the fact that he is way ahead again this year in deep PI penalties drawn.

I checked PFF's historical charts (some of the ones free to non-paying dues like myself) and he's never sniffed the top 10 in deep ball accuracy. So, if hes currently 2nd this year, I'd love to see the chart. Not saying he isnt. Would truly love to see it for 2014 thus far.

[K-Dog]

Yes.

He is VERY good.

 

Next question.

Make it a little bit tougher.  This one was WAY too easy.

[hawkprey]

I checked PFF's historical charts (some of the ones free to non-paying dues like myself) and he's never sniffed the top 10 in deep ball accuracy. So, if hes currently 2nd this year, I'd love to see the chart. Not saying he isnt. Would truly love to see it for 2014 thus far.

I don't know, 1/28/01. If you don't think Flacco is at least one of the best deep passers, I don't know what to tell you! Flacco lover or hater, just enjoy the ride to the Super Bowl, I guess.

[beanfigger]

I checked PFF's historical charts (some of the ones free to non-paying dues like myself) and he's never sniffed the top 10 in deep ball accuracy. So, if hes currently 2nd this year, I'd love to see the chart. Not saying he isnt. Would truly love to see it for 2014 thus far.

 

I can't find where I saw it quoted (I also don't subscribe, but would welcome help from someone who is). I'm sure it helped his cause that he was perfect on deep throws in Tampa.

[GrimCoconut]

I checked PFF's historical charts (some of the ones free to non-paying dues like myself) and he's never sniffed the top 10 in deep ball accuracy. So, if hes currently 2nd this year, I'd love to see the chart. Not saying he isnt. Would truly love to see it for 2014 thus far.

Not making excuses, but a lot of his deep throws were to Torrey Smith, Anquan Boldin, Derrick Mason and Mark Clayton. Boldin was not a vertical threat, so throwing a deep pass to him was ineffective, as we all know. Mason had that ability. Clayton dropped too many balls and also didn't have the speed to really break down the field on the deep pass. Torrey Smith can get down the field, and so can Jacoby Jones. Torrey either gets DPI, drops the ball, runs a poor or different routes than Flacco planned, drops the ball, or makes a good catch and hauls in the pass. It's kind of hard to say how bad his accuracy is based off of their stats, since those deep threat options haven't really worked out for him as much. He's been pretty good with Steve Smith, who knows routes and has better hands than Torrey. 

[1/28/01]

I don't know, 1/28/01. If you don't think Flacco is at least one of the best deep passers, I don't know what to tell you! Flacco lover or hater, just enjoy the ride to the Super Bowl, I guess.

I get thats what you feel/see. I just dont get that same feeling, nor do the results or statistics point to Flacco being a top flight long ball QB. I like Flacco. I think he is a good QB. I am not a hater. BUT Im not willing to accept his under throws, over throws, deep pass percentage (other years outside 2014 since I dont know that as of now) etc as equalling best or even among the best deep ball QBs.

Stick to what we're doing this year and look what happens. Efficient and productive. As stated earlier, he is middle of the pack for long (over 20 yards) attempts and as a result, we're seeing him play his best football as a professional.

[1/28/01]

Not making excuses, but a lot of his deep throws were to Torrey Smith, Anquan Boldin, Derrick Mason and Mark Clayton. Boldin was not a vertical threat, so throwing a deep pass to him was ineffective, as we all know. Mason had that ability. Clayton dropped too many balls and also didn't have the speed to really break down the field on the deep pass. Torrey Smith can get down the field, and so can Jacoby Jones. Torrey either gets DPI, drops the ball, runs a poor or different routes than Flacco planned, drops the ball, or makes a good catch and hauls in the pass. It's kind of hard to say how bad his accuracy is based off of their stats, since those deep threat options haven't really worked out for him as much. He's been pretty good with Steve Smith, who knows routes and has better hands than Torrey.

PFF throws drops back into a QBs completion percentage. Historically, Flacco has not shown to have a high completion percentage past 20 yards. Its just the truth. Again, I dont know 2014's percentage at this time....wish I did.

[Bltravens]

Peyton would have choked Cam by his 2nd year.  2nd game

Fixed it for you

[GrimCoconut]

PFF throws drops back into a QBs completion percentage. Historically, Flacco has not shown to have a high completion percentage past 20 yards. Its just the truth. Again, I dont know 2014's percentage at this time....wish I did.

Yeah, I would say half of his incompletions are related to WRs, but that's purely a guess on my part going off of my memory and isn't some statistical breakdown. I just remember a lot of balls he throws being either off-target (looks like a WR ran a bad route or Joe thought he was running a different route), under-thrown, over-thrown, dropped, DPI, or caught. I've noticed a lot of times, Joe likes to throw to Torrey to draw the DPI, not necessarily to get a completion. He's been doing this for a while now. 

 

I actually think he's a good QB on the long ball, though that's off of memory, and admittedly, I probably remember his killer long throws with the exciting big-play potential more than others. I don't like PFFs QB stats, though. I never have. I like their OL statistics, but not too fond of them outside of that. 

[ravensdan]

If you are attempting the more difficult throws like flacco does and has been extremely good at you are going to have more interceptions. If you want to be great and be able to win playoff games consistently against great players, something flacco has always done you have to make those kind of throws. There is no stay for "throws no attempted". I would like to see the deep out routes that were a staple with mason worked back in honestly. Flacco throws that ball perfectly.

[PurpleCorsair]

If you are attempting the more difficult throws like flacco does and has been extremely good at you are going to have more interceptions. If you want to be great and be able to win playoff games consistently against great players, something flacco has always done you have to make those kind of throws. There is no stay for "throws no attempted". I would like to see the deep out routes that were a staple with mason worked back in honestly. Flacco throws that ball perfectly.

I do miss Mason's 15 yard comeback, that was a thing of beauty. No one on our team, not even Smitty, runs it like Mase did.

[Ravensfan23]

I was wondering when this was going to come. Flacco has been playing far too well for someone not to have something to say. I don't think the OP requires an answer because it's obvious that ever QB is benefited by his OC and vice versa. The bit about Peyton is totally wrong. He doesn't make every offense he plays in look good simply because the guy has played in the same offense for most of his career.

 

Back to Flacco. I was telling people as soon as we signed Kubes that Flacco would open a lot of eyes and shut a lot of mouths this year. The scary part is that he and the offense is only getting better. I'll say the same about Flacco with Kubes as I said about Cam. Allow Flacco to have some type of continuity in the offense like other top QBs have and step back. Give Flacco 3 years in this offense with a core group of guys like Torrey, Juice, Brown, Aiken, Camp, add another move TE to replace O.D/Pitta, also add another young WR like Jalen Strong, while keeping the Oline good and the NFL will have a serious problem on their hands imo.

 

Say what you will about Flacco up until this point in his career but the guy has had to suffer through some pretty bad offensive schemes and talent, yet he continues to push forward. I look at guys like Cutler, Ryan and Dalton who have all the talent and great talent surrounding them but can never seem to get the job done. Then I look at Flacco and he's just a winner. Does he have a solid defense, of course but most of those defenses haven't been great. In fact I'm willing to say just off memory that this year's defense is the best we've had in the Flacco era. I hate when people act like the defense won so many games and Flacco was just along for the ride, it's just not true. Hell I heard Freeman say the Defense won the Super Bowl for the Ravens because they made the last stop of the game, I think i'm done watching that Ravens Post Game show, but some of the things said about Flacco are just puzzling.

 

Flacco is playing well and still has so much room to improve within this offense, I mean lets be honest, it's only been about 4 months of being in the offense. Kubes still hasn't even opened up this offense honestly

[Inqui]

I was wondering when this was going to come. Flacco has been playing far too well for someone not to have something to say. I don't think the OP requires an answer because it's obvious that ever QB is benefited by his OC and vice versa. The bit about Peyton is totally wrong. He doesn't make every offense he plays in look good simply because the guy has played in the same offense for most of his career.

 

Back to Flacco. I was telling people as soon as we signed Kubes that Flacco would open a lot of eyes and shut a lot of mouths this year. The scary part is that he and the offense is only getting better. I'll say the same about Flacco with Kubes as I said about Cam. Allow Flacco to have some type of continuity in the offense like other top QBs have and step back. Give Flacco 3 years in this offense with a core group of guys like Torrey, Juice, Brown, Aiken, Camp, add another move TE to replace O.D/Pitta, also add another young WR like Jalen Strong, while keeping the Oline good and the NFL will have a serious problem on their hands imo.

 

Say what you will about Flacco up until this point in his career but the guy has had to suffer through some pretty bad offensive schemes and talent, yet he continues to push forward. I look at guys like Cutler, Ryan and Dalton who have all the talent and great talent surrounding them but can never seem to get the job done. Then I look at Flacco and he's just a winner. Does he have a solid defense, of course but most of those defenses haven't been great. In fact I'm willing to say just off memory that this year's defense is the best we've had in the Flacco era. I hate when people act like the defense won so many games and Flacco was just along for the ride, it's just not true. Hell I heard Freeman say the Defense won the Super Bowl for the Ravens because they made the last stop of the game, I think i'm done watching that Ravens Post Game show, but some of the things said about Flacco are just puzzling.

 

Flacco is playing well and still has so much room to improve within this offense, I mean lets be honest, it's only been about 4 months of being in the offense. Kubes still hasn't even opened up this offense honestly

This is my concern, keeping the system going when Kubiak leaves. If we have to go with something else, that'll push Joe's progress back a few years again. But if we can at least keep the stretch zone/WCO Kubiak runs, no reason Joe can't keep going from strength to strength.

[FoxRox75]

I was wondering when this was going to come. Flacco has been playing far too well for someone not to have something to say. I don't think the OP requires an answer because it's obvious that ever QB is benefited by his OC and vice versa. The bit about Peyton is totally wrong. He doesn't make every offense he plays in look good simply because the guy has played in the same offense for most of his career.

 

Back to Flacco. I was telling people as soon as we signed Kubes that Flacco would open a lot of eyes and shut a lot of mouths this year. The scary part is that he and the offense is only getting better. I'll say the same about Flacco with Kubes as I said about Cam. Allow Flacco to have some type of continuity in the offense like other top QBs have and step back. Give Flacco 3 years in this offense with a core group of guys like Torrey, Juice, Brown, Aiken, Camp, add another move TE to replace O.D/Pitta, also add another young WR like Jalen Strong, while keeping the Oline good and the NFL will have a serious problem on their hands imo.

 

Say what you will about Flacco up until this point in his career but the guy has had to suffer through some pretty bad offensive schemes and talent, yet he continues to push forward. I look at guys like Cutler, Ryan and Dalton who have all the talent and great talent surrounding them but can never seem to get the job done. Then I look at Flacco and he's just a winner. Does he have a solid defense, of course but most of those defenses haven't been great. In fact I'm willing to say just off memory that this year's defense is the best we've had in the Flacco era. I hate when people act like the defense won so many games and Flacco was just along for the ride, it's just not true. Hell I heard Freeman say the Defense won the Super Bowl for the Ravens because they made the last stop of the game, I think i'm done watching that Ravens Post Game show, but some of the things said about Flacco are just puzzling.

 

Flacco is playing well and still has so much room to improve within this offense, I mean lets be honest, it's only been about 4 months of being in the offense. Kubes still hasn't even opened up this offense honestly

 

Liked this post a lot. I also agree Flacco is better than Cutler, Ryan, and Dalton, ESPECIALLY with postseason success. Until Cutler, Ryan, and/or Dalton can get the job done and win the Super Bowl, they deserve to be placed below Flacco. He's become a solid leader and I have absolute faith in him to lead us to at least 1 more Super Bowl victory.

[TSizzle00]

When Flacco has been good a while, the weapons around him have been so-so. When his WRs actually catch footballs and try to get open you really see what Flacco can do.  If the Ravens had Roddy White and Jones they would have probably won one more SB.(They would have outright crushed NE the year we dropped that sure TD pass to win it in the AFCCG.). He is not without his flaws however, I am a firm believer that Flacco cannot play while even slightly injured. Several times in his career hes had injuries and is basically unusable in game situations like others QBs are. That being said he needs a Oline to protect him as any QB would want. Give him something to work with and he can win you Football games, is he HOF? No but a good QB? I believe so.