Is Joe Flacco Becoming a Good QB?

[Ausman]

Is Joe Flacco really becoming a good Quaterback or is Gary Kubiak making him look good?

 

Peyton Manning did Great no matter who the Offensive Coordinator was.

[Mt. Crushmore]

I think Flacco's Super Bowl MVP award answers the question nicely.

[Runnin Raven]

"Ray Lewis and the defense win the games in spite of Joe"

 

"Anquan Boldin wins the games in spite of Joe"

 

"Gary Kubiak wins the games in spite of Joe"

 

Yep, you're definitely onto something.

[rmcjacket23]

I think the question is irrelevant.

 

Any reference to Flacco that involves Peyton Manning in the same paragraph is an immediate write off for me.

 

Joe Flacco is not Peyton Manning. He will never be Peyton Manning. If that is the bar, he will ALWAYS fall short of it. But he didn't set the bar there, and neither did this organization. That's 100% a fan problem.

[3-4ravdef509]

Is Joe Flacco really becoming a good Quaterback or is Gary Kubiak making him look good?

 

Peyton Manning did Great no matter who the Offensive Coordinator was.

 

I don't care for comparisons, but if you really wanna go there: Joe Flacco is a lot like Joe Flacco, and with a little bit of Joe Flacco mixed in. Somedays, he plays like Joe Flacco, other days, he can play like Joe Flacco. There's always a Joe Flacco-esqe element to his game. Most of the time though, he's like Joe Flacco.

 

And when you least expect it, he'll pull a Joe Flacco.

 

And then when you least LEAST expect it, he'll rip you a Joe Flacco.

[redrum52]

I like how your "answer the damn question" remark was killed.  

 

He's been an average, to above average qb most of his career if you ask me.  He's had the playoff run, but when speaking on the majority of his career, he is what he is, though I can say, he's probably been held back by Cam.  I think it's a combination of both.  Flacco is playing alright ball, with room for improvement and the same can be said for Kubiak.  He's calling games, but can still get better.  I would still like to see him cut down on the picks so far, especially considering about 3 were pretty avoidable.

 

I think the question is irrelevant.

 

Any reference to Flacco that involves Peyton Manning in the same paragraph is an immediate write off for me.

 

Joe Flacco is not Peyton Manning. He will never be Peyton Manning. If that is the bar, he will ALWAYS fall short of it. But he didn't set the bar there, and neither did this organization. That's 100% a fan problem.

This too.  He's no Peyton and Peyton isn't him.

[Inqui]

I'm actually not convinced Peyton would make literally any team better. Chuck him in an Air Coryell system and see how he goes.

[rmcjacket23]

I like how your "answer the damn question" remark was killed.  

 

He's been an average, to above average qb most of his career if you ask me.  He's had the playoff run, but when speaking on the majority of his career, he is what he is, though I can say, he's probably been held back by Cam.  I think it's a combination of both.  Flacco is playing alright ball, with room for improvement and the same can be said for Kubiak.  He's calling games, but can still get better.  I would still like to see him cut down on the picks so far, especially considering about 3 were pretty avoidable.

 

This too.  He's no Peyton and Peyton isn't him.

I think the nature of what Joe does means he's going to be in the 10-12 INT per season range most of his career, and I'm frankly fine with that. Its still less than 1 per game on average. He's on pace for those same numbers, and they would be in-line with what he did from 2008-2012. He's on pace to have career highs in yardage and TDs by a pretty significant margin, so that alone means he appears to be getting better. He also has no lost fumbles this season so far, which for a stretch in his career appeared to be a significant problem.

[redrum52]

I'm actually not convinced Peyton would make literally any team better. Chuck him in an Air Coryell system and see how he goes.

Peyton Manning is his own damn OC at this point.   Everyone else on offense either follows his lead or kicks rocks.

[redrum52]

I think the nature of what Joe does means he's going to be in the 10-12 INT per season range most of his career, and I'm frankly fine with that. Its still less than 1 per game on average. He's on pace for those same numbers, and they would be in-line with what he did from 2008-2012. He's on pace to have career highs in yardage and TDs by a pretty significant margin, so that alone means he appears to be getting better. He also has no lost fumbles this season so far, which for a stretch in his career appeared to be a significant problem.

He's improved on the fumbling greatly, but the ints should be going down in this system.  Also, that 5 td game is padding his stats, but we'll see how turns out.

[Moderator 3]

I'm actually not convinced Peyton would make literally any team better. Chuck him in an Air Coryell system and see how he goes.

Peyton would have choked Cam by his 2nd year.

[beanfigger]

I like how your "answer the damn question" remark was killed.  

 

He's been an average, to above average qb most of his career if you ask me.  He's had the playoff run, but when speaking on the majority of his career, he is what he is, though I can say, he's probably been held back by Cam.  I think it's a combination of both.  Flacco is playing alright ball, with room for improvement and the same can be said for Kubiak.  He's calling games, but can still get better.  I would still like to see him cut down on the picks so far, especially considering about 3 were pretty avoidable.

 

This too.  He's no Peyton and Peyton isn't him.

 

Considering outside of last season, Flacco's INT% was fourth best in the history of the league, and he's back on that percentage this year, I'm fine with that part of his game.

 

I think the biggest area for improvement, and we've seen some since the awful play that ended the first half against Cincy, is that he seems to be afraid to throw the ball away sometimes. This leads to some of his very few interceptions, but also leads to a lot of sacks and general bad decisions. He almost never throws the ball away, especially while in the pocket (there are ways to do so without being called for a penalty, and he hasn't really figured that out).

 

Aside from that, I'd say he's above average in everything else, including athleticism, and even top tier in a few categories (arm strength, toughness, poise under pressure).

 

Also, I missed the deleted post, but I'm assuming it was in response to my post, which clears up for me why my post was also deleted.

[Ausman]

Peyton would have choked Cam by his 2nd year.

 

hahaha would love to see that

[rmcjacket23]

I like how your "answer the damn question" remark was killed.  

 

He's been an average, to above average qb most of his career if you ask me.  He's had the playoff run, but when speaking on the majority of his career, he is what he is, though I can say, he's probably been held back by Cam.  I think it's a combination of both.  Flacco is playing alright ball, with room for improvement and the same can be said for Kubiak.  He's calling games, but can still get better.  I would still like to see him cut down on the picks so far, especially considering about 3 were pretty avoidable.

 

This too.  He's no Peyton and Peyton isn't him.

Also, as an aside, I just did some quick math...

 

I think the public perception would be that 1. Joe Flacco throws too many INTs and 2. That Peyton Manning rarely throws INTs.

 

Interestingly enough, I did the math, and the results don't quite reflect that...

 

Through week 7 of 2014, here are their career INT statistics (including playoffs)...

 

Peyton Manning: 1 INT per 38.9 pass attempts, 246 INTs in 269 career games, an average of 0.9 INTs per game.

 

Joe Flacco: 1 INT per 40.9 pass attempts, 91 INTs in 116 career games, an average of 0.8 INTs per game.

[GrimCoconut]

He's been a good QB for quite some time.

[Ravenseconbeast]

I think Joe is what he has always been. He is amazing at times, and completely dud some other times. He is inconsistent.

This might be his best career year he'll ever have. He might finally top the stats (as a top5 passer)

[rmcjacket23]

He's improved on the fumbling greatly, but the ints should be going down in this system.  Also, that 5 td game is padding his stats, but we'll see how turns out.

Agreed, though again, I don't expect them to drop significantly from the 10-12 range he was in.

 

Keep in mind that Manning only threw single digit INTs once in his career, and even Brady, who is considered incredibly accurate, only had 3 of 12 seasons where he threw single digit INTs. He was pretty consistantly in the 12-14 INT per season range when he was winning SBs in the early-mid 2000s...

 

Anything in the 10-12 range is acceptable for me in my opinion. I think if we are asking for him to be in the 6-8 range, I think we are asking for too much.

[redrum52]

Considering outside of last season, Flacco's INT% was fourth best in the history of the league, and he's back on that percentage this year, I'm fine with that part of his game.

 

I think the biggest area for improvement, and we've seen some since the awful play that ended the first half against Cincy, is that he seems to be afraid to throw the ball away sometimes. This leads to some of his very few interceptions, but also leads to a lot of sacks and general bad decisions. He almost never throws the ball away, especially while in the pocket (there are ways to do so without being called for a penalty, and he hasn't really figured that out).

 

Aside from that, I'd say he's above average in everything else, including athleticism, and even top tier in a few categories (arm strength, toughness, poise under pressure).

 

Also, I missed the deleted post, but I'm assuming it was in response to my post, which clears up for me why my post was also deleted.

 

 

Also, as an aside, I just did some quick math...

 

I think the public perception would be that 1. Joe Flacco throws too many INTs and 2. That Peyton Manning rarely throws INTs.

 

Interestingly enough, I did the math, and the results don't quite reflect that...

 

Through week 7 of 2014, here are their career INT statistics (including playoffs)...

 

Peyton Manning: 1 INT per 38.9 pass attempts, 246 INTs in 269 career games, an average of 0.9 INTs per game.

 

Joe Flacco: 1 INT per 40.9 pass attempts, 91 INTs in 116 career games, an average of 0.8 INTs per game.

I don't think he throws a lot of picks, minus last year.  My point is, his numbers would be a lot better if he cut down on really stupid ones.  There are times when it seems like he's really pressing for no reason.  Also, to compare picks, you'd need to compare the amount of attempts as well, I think.

[GrimCoconut]

I think Joe is what he has always been. He is amazing at times, and completely dud some other times. He is inconsistent.

This might be his best career year he'll ever have. He might finally top the stats (as a top5 passer)

It's interesting how you give Joe a good OL and he looks like a beast and he connects with WR. Honestly, that's where I would spend all our money on offense. OL, QB, TE, and a WR. Cycle through other guys.

[redrum52]

hahaha would love to see that

Why was this negged?  Lmao

[FoxRox75]

For the most part Flacco is definitely good about his interception rate, excluding 2013 of course. I've always thought he was a "good" quarterback. Obviously he's not the type to reach Peyton Manning or Tom Brady stats usually, but he does what he needs to to help us win football games. And right now, I don't think I'd take any quarterback over Flacco for the playoffs. 

[rmcjacket23]

I don't think he throws a lot of picks, minus last year.  My point is, his numbers would be a lot better if he cut down on really stupid ones.  There are times when it seems like he's really pressing for no reason.  Also, to compare picks, you'd need to compare the amount of attempts as well, I think.

I did compare the attempts... I put the INT per attempt figures out there. Joe Flacco throws less INTs on a per-attempt basis than Peyton Manning. Not significantly less, but less.

 

I think you could say the same thing about "stupid picks" for almost any QB. I think a lot of fans pretend like a ton of INTs occur off of dropped passes, tipped balls, etc., but still the majority of INTs in this league occur from either inaccurate throws or poor decisions made by the QB. There's exceptions to this of course, but I would almost guarantee that is the case with every single QB in this league.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

wow

[redrum52]

I did compare the attempts... I put the INT per attempt figures out there. Joe Flacco throws less INTs on a per-attempt basis than Peyton Manning. Not significantly less, but less.

 

I think you could say the same thing about "stupid picks" for almost any QB. I think a lot of fans pretend like a ton of INTs occur off of dropped passes, tipped balls, etc., but still the majority of INTs in this league occur from either inaccurate throws or poor decisions made by the QB. There's exceptions to this of course, but I would almost guarantee that is the case with every single QB in this league.

I know every qb does and I wasn't talking about tipped passes.  The 2nd pick in the Falcons game and int after the blocked fg against the Bengals come to mind.

[The Raven]

Ya know… we haven't had a good Flacco thread in a while. Let's keep this one going!

 

Flacco, in this new offense, is playing close to the level of the greats like Brady and Manning. Although he is not at that level or above them, he is just below them now. I do think it's arguable that Flacco is in fact playing as well as Brady. Even Bleacher Report ranked Joe number 10 in their latest power rankings. Flacco is nearing top five QB status. And scheme was the problem all along, just like we said.

 

He's finally playing in a system comparable to Brady's/Manning's system, and he's finally putting up performances comparable to Brady/Manning.

[Inqui]

Ya know… we haven't had a good Flacco thread in a while. Let's keep this one going!

Flacco, in this new offense, is playing close to the level of the greats like Brady and Manning. Although he is not at that level or above them, he is just below them now. I do think it's arguable that Flacco is in fact playing as well as Brady. Even Bleacher Report ranked Joe number 10 in their latest power rankings. Flacco is nearing top five QB status. And scheme was the problem all along, just like we said.

He's finally playing in a system comparable to Brady's/Manning's system, and he's finally putting up performances comparable to Brady/Manning.

 

Basically this. I've said before that Joe's one of those guys (among anywhere up to 10 others) who can be as good as Drew Brees in the right circumstances - good OC, receivers that get open, the promise of not getting decked as soon as he catches the snap (Tannehill says hi), etc.

[The Raven]

Basically this. I've said before that Joe's one of those guys (among anywhere up to 10 others) who can be as good as Drew Brees in the right circumstances - good OC, receivers that get open, the promise of not getting decked as soon as he catches the snap (Tannehill says hi), etc.

 

I agree, though I would say Flacco can be as good as Drew Brees when in the same or similar circumstances (Good OC, WRs, OL…)

[jazz1988]

I'm actually not convinced Peyton would make literally any team better. Chuck him in an Air Coryell system and see how he goes.

 

Well he started his career in a Air Corydell system but he probably can't  preform well in it now since his arm strength isn't the same since his neck injury.

[3-4ravdef509]

I may get negged or slammed for this...

Switch Brady and Flacco (their starts in the Nfl). Everything else being the same, Flacco wins 4 Super Bowls with Belicheck and that Pats D. Throws 55 touchdowns with Randy Moss in 2007.

[beanfigger]

I don't think he throws a lot of picks, minus last year. My point is, his numbers would be a lot better if he cut down on really stupid ones. There are times when it seems like he's really pressing for no reason. Also, to compare picks, you'd need to compare the amount of attempts as well, I think.

My post is about INT%. That does means per attempt.