Official vent thread vs Falcons

[3-4ravdef509]

Yeah, it's an opinion, but I think it's fairly obvious that the secondary has been a liability this year.

 

Mainly due to unforeseeable injuries.

 

Hind sight is 20/20.

 

You take Mosely 20 out of 20 times at our position in the draft this year, absolute steal.

 

Yes, we have a surplus at linebacker, kind of sucks when our corner depth is weak. But no team has great depth at every position, every team has a weakness. Our weakness is far from a huge liability, just a bump in the road. 

[rmcjacket23]

You forgot about Cary Williams, not that he was great at CB, but he was the starter all season for the Ravens in that SB run.

 

Maybe our CB depth is "buttressed" by our safety depth, but our safeties haven't played well either. If I'm looking at the Ravens defense, there has been a glaring weakness in the secondary all season. It has cost us games. With a better secondary the Ravens could easily be 7-0 right now, but they have let up a ton of big plays and long conversions.

 

In a nutshell CB is a more important position than ILB, and the difference between Mosley and Brown is not as big as the difference between a stud rookie like Verrett and the hodgepodge combination of Asa/Chykie/Franks and whatever Safety we have had to play at CB so far this season.

But the reality is that we really have no idea what the difference between CJ and Brown is, because Brown hasn't played well enough in preseason or training camp to warrant even being active on gameday, let alone taking snaps at MLB. We sort of know what CJ is right now, which is a foundational piece of this defense.

 

We also can't just single handedly pick out Verrett, because there's no guarantee he would have been the corner we would have taken. Why wouldn't we have taken Dennard over Verrett? There's no way this defense would be better off with Dennard over Mosley at this point.

 

And then there's the even bigger "second guessing" question of... if Webb doesn't get injured, is a guy like Verrett anything more than a nickel corner who's off the field maybe half the time? Is that more valuable than Mosley?

 

I will say that I think safety is and/or was a bigger concern for this team in our big plays given up, and I think its still a bigger concern than finding more depth at corner. In general, I'm a much bigger fan of trying to find competent starters at most positions on the team before I go looking for quality depth in other spots. In the first few weeks of the season, we basically had no starting-caliber NFL safeties on the field, or at the very least, they weren't playing as such.

 

If everybody were healthy, a 3 man-lineup of Smith, Webb and Asa would probably still be a top 10-12 cornerback unit in the league. I don't think I could say that about a Daryl Smith/Art Brown combination at MLB.

[Inqui]

But the reality is that we really have no idea what the difference between CJ and Brown is, because Brown hasn't played well enough in preseason or training camp to warrant even being active on gameday, let alone taking snaps at MLB. We sort of know what CJ is right now, which is a foundational piece of this defense.

 

We also can't just single handedly pick out Verrett, because there's no guarantee he would have been the corner we would have taken. Why wouldn't we have taken Dennard over Verrett? There's no way this defense would be better off with Dennard over Mosley at this point.

 

And then there's the even bigger "second guessing" question of... if Webb doesn't get injured, is a guy like Verrett anything more than a nickel corner who's off the field maybe half the time? Is that more valuable than Mosley?

 

I will say that I think safety is and/or was a bigger concern for this team in our big plays given up, and I think its still a bigger concern than finding more depth at corner. In general, I'm a much bigger fan of trying to find competent starters at most positions on the team before I go looking for quality depth in other spots. In the first few weeks of the season, we basically had no starting-caliber NFL safeties on the field, or at the very least, they weren't playing as such.

 

If everybody were healthy, a 3 man-lineup of Smith, Webb and Asa would probably still be a top 10-12 cornerback unit in the league. I don't think I could say that about a Daryl Smith/Art Brown combination at MLB.

Your problem right here. It's not like this was some unforeseen thing that took everyone by surprise.

[beanfigger]

Your problem right here. It's not like this was some unforeseen thing that took everyone by surprise.

But if we hadn't taken an ILB this offseason, where would we be if either Smith or whoever the other starter would have been (not guaranteed to have been Brown) had gotten injured? Pretty bad shape.

[The Raven]

Yes, if we had another shutdown corner (Jason Verrett), the Ravens defense would be better right now. Mosley is not the piece that is making the defense go.

 

I think you could make an argument that CB would make our defense better. I sort of agree with you that Mosley is not the piece that is making the defense go. It's very clear to me that the defensive line and OLBs are. Look at it simply. In games our line was off, we sucked on defense. In games our line was on, we dominated. 

 

You can make a strong argument that a CB would have been a better pick than ILB, especially with the talent at ILB in this class. If you can't see that point of view, you're just kidding yourself.

 

However, I will say that hindsight is 20/20. We didn't foresee Webb getting hurt. We predicted that Chykie and Asa would have been good nickels by this point. We predicted that Elam would have been a playmaker by this point. When we drafted Mosley instead of a CB like Verrett, we gambled on our young defensive backs. It just so happens that we lost. 

 

Basically, we didn't screw up by neglecting CB to get Mosley, but grabbing a CB would have been nice.

 

However, I will also say that I think picking Mosley was the best move to make for the long term.

[rmcjacket23]

Your problem right here. It's not like this was some unforeseen thing that took everyone by surprise.

No, but then again, I'm not the type of person that buys into the whole "injury prone" theory. Injuries happen to different players at different times, and anybody playing this sport is going to probably have a significant injury at some point in their career... its just a question of when.

 

It could have been Webb, or it could have been Daryl Smith or Arthur Brown, who we would have been starting had we not drafted CJ.

 

No team in the league has perfect depth at every position. In fact, no team in the league has great players at every position either. This is not a Ravens problem... its an everybody problem.

[gabefergy]

I'm not going to reply to every one of these comments because it's a lot of the same thing. Is there anyway to know that our CB situation would be stretched this thin? No, but it was pretty clear that CB was not a position of depth. Jimmy and Webb have both been injury prone in their careers and as high on Asa Jackson as I was, he had never played a meaningful snap in the NFL. Chykie was terrible in the snaps he did play, and now he is benched so we really have 3 CBs on our depth chart on any given week and 1 of them wasn't even on a roster for the first quarter of the season.

 

Arthur Brown obviously isn't as good as Mosley is right now, but he wasn't terrible when he played last year. He was excellent in coverage and he was a decent blitzer as well. He looked fantastic in the preseason as well. I know a lot of people thought he was going to be a break out player this year after seeing him in the preseason. He was doing what Mosley is doing now, so I don't think it's that much of a stretch to think he would at least be a solid starter if given the opportunity.

 

I am sure Mosley will be a great player as a Raven and is a big part of the team's future. Right now, on this team, he is more of a luxury than a necessity IMO. I feel that a high end CB would take this defense from being a top 5 unit with a few holes on the back-end to being indisputably the best defense in the NFL. I don't think ILB would become a liability like the secondary is now.

[rmcjacket23]

I'm not going to reply to every one of these comments because it's a lot of the same thing. Is there anyway to know that our CB situation would be stretched this thin? No, but it was pretty clear that CB was not a position of depth. Jimmy and Webb have both been injury prone in their careers and as high on Asa Jackson as I was, he had never played a meaningful snap in the NFL. Chykie was terrible in the snaps he did play, and now he is benched so we really have 3 CBs on our depth chart on any given week and 1 of them wasn't even on a roster for the first quarter of the season.

 

Arthur Brown obviously isn't as good as Mosley is right now, but he wasn't terrible when he played last year. He was excellent in coverage and he was a decent blitzer as well. He looked fantastic in the preseason as well. I know a lot of people thought he was going to be a break out player this year after seeing him in the preseason. He was doing what Mosley is doing now, so I don't think it's that much of a stretch to think he would at least be a solid starter if given the opportunity.

 

I am sure Mosley will be a great player as a Raven and is a big part of the team's future. Right now, on this team, he is more of a luxury than a necessity IMO. I feel that a high end CB would take this defense from being a top 5 unit with a few holes on the back-end to being indisputably the best defense in the NFL. I don't think ILB would become a liability like the secondary is now.

I think we need more stable safeties and yes some more depth at corner before we start talking about this defense among the leagues best. But those also aren't the kinds of problems you typically solve in a single offseason, and this teams window for winning isn't small at all...

[gabefergy]

I think we need more stable safeties and yes some more depth at corner before we start talking about this defense among the leagues best. But those also aren't the kinds of problems you typically solve in a single offseason, and this teams window for winning isn't small at all...

So drafting a CB high wouldn't alleviate those concerns? Outside of the secondary, what weakness do you see in this defense that is clearly a top 5 unit even with questionable corners.

[GrimCoconut]

I love Mosley but it would've been awesome to have Verrett. I was a very big fan his and he has played great football. He definitely would've helped the team for sure. Guy has legit ball skills and coverage skills. Definitely a big part of what's helping San Diego play so well and win games.

That said, I love Mosley. I wanted him bad in the 2013 draft then he returned to school. I would've been more excited had we not drafted Arthur Brown before.

It's hard to complain, though, when you missed on a great player for another great player--especially one playing as well as Mosley. If only we had traded our 2013 1st round pick for a 2014 1st. Oh well.

[1/28/01]

I think we need more stable safeties and yes some more depth at corner before we start talking about this defense among the leagues best. But those also aren't the kinds of problems you typically solve in a single offseason, and this teams window for winning isn't small at all...

Or we can look at our D with what we currently have and how they've currently been playing and state that we are in fact among the leagues best.

[ravensdfan]

Or we can look at our D with what we currently have and how they've currently been playing and state that we are in fact among the leagues best.

 

My thing is that they continue to improve. The secondary is definitely our weak spot, but they continue to get better with each game. I don't think you can expect more than consistent improvement.

 

It is no coincidence though that the secondary play has improved as our pass rush became more aggressive.

 

Just hoping the trend continues.

[redrum52]

My thing is that they continue to improve. The secondary is definitely our weak spot, but they continue to get better with each game. I don't think you can expect more than consistent improvement.

It is no coincidence though that the secondary play has improved as our pass rush became more aggressive.

Just hoping the trend continues.

Maybe the pass rush has gotten better cause the secondary is covering better. The first 5 games the average time qbs were releasing the ball was 2.1 seconds I think. If you can't cover for that long you can't expect the rush to hit home which was our problem. As many have pointned out, the pass rush has been rated highly since the start of the season. I think Webb coming back has helped and Hill will prove to be a steal down the line.

[beanfigger]

Maybe the pass rush has gotten better cause the secondary is covering better. The first 5 games the average time qbs were releasing the ball was 2.1 seconds I think. If you can't cover for that long you can't expect the rush to hit home which was our problem. As many have pointned out, the pass rush has been rated highly since the start of the season. I think Webb coming back has helped and Hill will prove to be a steal down the line.

Yeah, taking Elam out during passing downs is an excellent move. He remains the starter, but Brooks is playing far more snaps, and Hill got almost as many as Elam in his first game with us.

[DomMcRaven]

Maybe the pass rush has gotten better cause the secondary is covering better. The first 5 games the average time qbs were releasing the ball was 2.1 seconds I think. If you can't cover for that long you can't expect the rush to hit home which was our problem. As many have pointned out, the pass rush has been rated highly since the start of the season. I think Webb coming back has helped and Hill will prove to be a steal down the line.

And what I like about Hill is that he's only 24 years old. IF he keeps his head in the right place, he could become a great safety for us in the future (not comparing him to Ed, but you get my point).