Next UP: Atlanta Falcons

[GrimCoconut]

http://russellstreetreport.com/flashback-friday-the-day-matt-ryan-nearly-became-a-raven/

Its well documented by now, but in summary, the Ravens offered the Rams, who were picking second, their 1st, 2nd and 4th's in that season and a third the following year to move up to #2 to select Matt Ryan. The Rams price was steeper than that.

Also, there are numerous confirmed quotes from Bischotti himself that said he was willing to literally give up the entire draft to get Matt Ryan, because he couldn't stand to keep playing without a franchise QB anymore. It was Ozzie and DeCosta mostly who convinced Steve that the difference between Flacco and Ryan (they all acknowledged Ryan was the better prospect) wasn't big enough to justify the price tag that the Rams wanted.

This is true. Biscotti was willing to take Flacco at our original pick, but I think it was DeCosta or Ozzie who wanted to keep trading back to collect more picks and Steve got antsy because he didn't want to miss out on his QB. We really possibly could've had Flacco in the twenties or even top of the second. Not going to complain, though. He's killed it

[BmoreBird22]

I don't think having Matt Ryan would be a bad thing. He's an excellent quarterback at moving the chains and being the leader of a team. He's a great player and I'm sure he'd be great for the Ravens, but you have to look at what the Ravens would lose- they'd lose Flacco, Rice, and Webb all for Ryan. Is Ryan worth those three? Nah

[berad]

Question the reason why this thread exists, not me.

 

And again, we actually made at least one draft pick trade offer in order to acquire Matt Ryan. There is no indication we did that for Reggie Bush (nor is there in indication we wanted him at all).

 

This thread exists to discuss the upcoming Falcons game?

 

The Ravens will not stray from their best player available philosophy. When asked if after signing Mike Anderson and Jamal Lewis would the Ravens draft a back with their first pick if the BPA was a running back. Ozzie replied, “If Reggie Bush is still there at No. 13 he will be a Baltimore Raven.”

 

http://russellstreetreport.com/flashback-friday-the-liars-luncheon/

[BmoreBird22]

This is true. Biscotti was willing to take Flacco at our original pick, but I think it was DeCosta or Ozzie who wanted to keep trading back to collect more picks and Steve got antsy because he didn't want to miss out on his QB. We really possibly could've had Flacco in the twenties or even top of the second. Not going to complain, though. He's killed it

I remember someone once saying that the Jets and someone else really wanted Flacco and the Ravens weren't willing to chance it

[Halden52]

Who's better? Who has a ring...

 

Regardless, the Ravens are much more of a well rounded team. The Falcons have an explosive offense but their defense is pretty mediocre. This will be another win for us hands down.

[BmoreBird22]

Who's better? Who has a ring...

 

Regardless, the Ravens are much more of a well rounded team. The Falcons have an explosive offense but their defense is pretty mediocre. This will be another win for us hands down.

Trent Dilfer has the ring Dan Marino wishes he had

[berad]

I don't think having Matt Ryan would be a bad thing. He's an excellent quarterback at moving the chains and being the leader of a team. He's a great player and I'm sure he'd be great for the Ravens, but you have to look at what the Ravens would lose- they'd lose Flacco, Rice, and Webb all for Ryan. Is Ryan worth those three? Nah

 

Yup, plus Matt Ryan's rookie was like 2.5x as much as Flacco's with 4x as much guaranteed money so what other players do you miss out on?

[BmoreBird22]

Yup, plus Matt Ryan's rookie was like 2.5x as much as Flacco's with 4x as much guaranteed money so what other players do you miss out on?

I'm not going to lie, I'd be thrilled to have Matt Ryan, but not at the expense of building the franchise as it is now

[GrimCoconut]

I remember someone once saying that the Jets and someone else really wanted Flacco and the Ravens weren't willing to chance it

Yeah I think I recall that as well. Man am I glass we got him when we did. He's turned out as one of the best players from that draft.

[BmoreBird22]

Yeah I think I recall that as well. Man am I glass we got him when we did. He's turned out as one of the best players from that draft.

Oh yeah, no doubt. He, Ryan, Long, and Long would likely be your top four picks in that draft if it were held today

[rmcjacket23]

I never denied, that people care who's better. I just don't see how a player being a better prospect makes him a better player. Their carreers decide that. The Ravens might have been higher on Ryan, but I doubt they are any longer. Flacco had a historically great 2012 playoff campaign, that ended in the Ravens winning a SB. He was one of the main reason we got this. Ryan never did anything of that sort.

Being a better prospect doesn't make him a better player... it just means that the FO liked one player over another at the time when they had a choice between the two. Once both were drafted, that choice obviously ended.

 

Ryan has pretty much universally been the better regular season QB, and Flacco has clearly been the better postseason QB. If you were a team that doesn't make the playoffs often, then you'd probably prefer the regular season QB, because there's no point in having a great postseason QB if you don't make the postseason.

 

Naturally, its still far too early for any of this. If Matt Ryan wins a SB, the entire conversation shifts, because that's really the only argument in his favor at the moment. To put it easily... if you ask Ravens fans, they'd rather have Flacco. If you asked Falcons fans, they'd probably rather have Ryan. It's not like this is a one-sided argument where there's only one right answer.

[PolishRifle]

I don't think having Matt Ryan would be a bad thing. He's an excellent quarterback at moving the chains and being the leader of a team. He's a great player and I'm sure he'd be great for the Ravens, but you have to look at what the Ravens would lose- they'd lose Flacco, Rice, and Webb all for Ryan. Is Ryan worth those three? Nah

 

The question also remains, whether he is actually better than Joe. Ryan has better stats, but he also had insanely great pass catchers to throw the ball to. Are we seriously saying, that Flacco wouldn't have amazing number throwing the ball to White, Jones and Gonzales? Look at what Flacco is doing with an aging Steve Smith (I know Steve has plenty left in the tank, but he isn't in his prime either). 

Maybe, Ryan would've had won more playoff games in Bmore with a better defense and running game helping him out, but with Cam and the WRs, that we would've given him in an open stadium throwing the ball in AFCN weather against AFCN defenses, his numbers would be taking a huge hit.

What Flacco has done in the 2012 playoffs was very unique and I haven't seen anything from Ryan, even with the great weapons that he had, that compares to that.

[rmcjacket23]

This thread exists to discuss the upcoming Falcons game?

 

 

 

http://russellstreetreport.com/flashback-friday-the-liars-luncheon/

So, to summarize what I've been saying already, we were willing to wait for Reggie Bush to fall to us, and we were willing to move up to draft Matt Ryan.

[PolishRifle]

Naturally, its still far too early for any of this. If Matt Ryan wins a SB, the entire conversation shifts, because that's really the only argument in his favor at the moment. To put it easily... if you ask Ravens fans, they'd rather have Flacco. If you asked Falcons fans, they'd probably rather have Ryan. It's not like this is a one-sided argument where there's only one right answer.

 

The conversation might already be shifting this year:

 

Joe Flacco: 63,6 % 12 TDs 3 INTs

Matt Ryan: 63,7% 12 TDs 7 INTs

 

Not, in Ryan's favor, mind you.

[rmcjacket23]

The question also remains, whether he is actually better than Joe. Ryan has better stats, but he also had insanely great pass catchers to throw the ball to. Are we seriously saying, that Flacco wouldn't have amazing number throwing the ball to White, Jones and Gonzales? Look at what Flacco is doing with an aging Steve Smith (I know Steve has plenty left in the tank, but he isn't in his prime either). 

Maybe, Ryan would've had won more playoff games in Bmore with a better defense and running game helping him out, but with Cam and the WRs, that we would've given him in an open stadium throwing the ball in AFCN weather against AFCN defenses, his numbers would be taking a huge hit.

What Flacco has done in the 2012 playoffs was very unique and I haven't seen anything from Ryan, even with the great weapons that he had, that compares to that.

Can't make the comparison though. If Flacco has Julio/Roddy/Gonzalez to throw to... does he win a SB? The answer very well may be no, because if you are paying all those weapons, how can you afford the solid defense that Joe has had for most of his career? Having those weapons costs you something, as the Falcons have seen. Right now, its costing them things like young talent on defense and a very poor offensive line.

 

That's the entire point... if you're a stats guy, you take Ryan all day every day. If you're a guy that thinks QBs are only reflected by the number of rings they have, then you take Flacco all day every day.

 

Which, in summary, probably means that both sides are happy with their options.

[rmcjacket23]

The conversation might already be shifting this year:

 

Joe Flacco: 63,6 % 12 TDs 3 INTs

Matt Ryan: 63,7% 12 TDs 7 INTs

 

Not, in Ryan's favor, mind you.

Not the kind of shift that is going to happen in one season, particularly when you've got a pretty good sized gap in statistical performance over an entire career...

 

Ryan: 63.7%, 25,322 yards, 165 TDs, 84 INTs in 100 games

Flacco: 60.5%, 23,141, yards, 133 TDs, 81 INTs in 102 games

 

Flacco is going to need to outperform him significantly for several seasons to make up those differences statistically.

[PolishRifle]

Can't make the comparison though. If Flacco has Julio/Roddy/Gonzalez to throw to... does he win a SB? The answer very well may be no, because if you are paying all those weapons, how can you afford the solid defense that Joe has had for most of his career? Having those weapons costs you something, as the Falcons have seen. Right now, its costing them things like young talent on defense and a very poor offensive line.

 

That's the entire point... if you're a stats guy, you take Ryan all day every day. If you're a guy that thinks QBs are only reflected by the number of rings they have, then you take Flacco all day every day.

 

Which, in summary, probably means that both sides are happy with their options.

 

The franchise, that I support (Go Ravens!) has a SB championship, the second in it's existence. Atlanta has none. Pretty sure, I'm happier, than a Falcons fan. They can frame Ryan's stat sheet, I guess.

[codizzle]

Not the kind of shift that is going to happen in one season, particularly when you've got a pretty good sized gap in statistical performance over an entire career...

Ryan: 63.7%, 25,322 yards, 165 TDs, 84 INTs in 100 games

Flacco: 60.5%, 23,141, yards, 133 TDs, 81 INTs in 102 games

Flacco is going to need to outperform him significantly for several seasons to make up those differences statistically.

That's actually way closer than I was expecting

Ryan plays half his games in a dome... Yea way closer than I would have guessed

And how does flacco only have 2 more games played?

[rmcjacket23]

The franchise, that I support (Go Ravens!) has a SB championship, the second in it's existence. Atlanta has none. Pretty sure, I'm happier, than a Falcons fan. They can frame Ryan's stat sheet, I guess.

That doesn't mean that the Falcons would gladly trade their QB, because it requires a lot more than just a QB to get a Lombardi...

 

Like I already said, if I polled the majority of Falcons fans, I would bet a large sum of money that they would NOT trade Matt Ryan for Joe Flacco right now, even knowing all the information they know now.

[berad]

So, to summarize what I've been saying already, we were willing to wait for Reggie Bush to fall to us, and we were willing to move up to draft Matt Ryan.

 

You asked for evidence that we wanted Bush. But now I'm wondering why this matters at all - you brought it up then disregard counterarguments. We wanted to trade up for Quinn, too, and were trying to.

 

My point was Ryan turned into a good player regardless of whether we wanted him or not and it's not a discredit to Flacco that Ryan was a better prospect. Ravens have an educated guess who will be good or not but it's not a crystal ball.

[berad]

That's actually way closer than I was expecting

Ryan plays half his games in a dome... Yea way closer than I would have guessed

And how does flacco only have 2 more games played?

 

Regular season stats only

[codizzle]

Regular season stats only

How does that add up then? Neither have missed a start right?

Nvm.. Matty ice missed two games in 09

[rmcjacket23]

That's actually way closer than I was expecting

Ryan plays half his games in a dome... Yea way closer than I would have guessed

And how does flacco only have 2 more games played?

I only reference regular season games... there's really no point in referencing the postseason games.

 

The dome thing doesn't really matter that much to me.

[rmcjacket23]

You asked for evidence that we wanted Bush. But now I'm wondering why this matters at all - you brought it up then disregard counterarguments. We wanted to trade up for Quinn, too, and were trying to.

 

My point was Ryan turned into a good player regardless of whether we wanted him or not and it's not a discredit to Flacco that Ryan was a better prospect. Ravens have an educated guess who will be good or not but it's not a crystal ball.

I didn't ask for evidence that we wanted Bush... you assumed that we did. I never said we didn't... I said he wasn't nearly as coveted as Ryan was, as referenced by our attempt to move up so high and pay such a high price to get him.

 

My point was simple... contrary to what some people seemed to think, at the time we had the ability to make the decision, Matt Ryan was priority 1 and Joe Flacco was priority 2. That doesn't mean we made the wrong decision by any stretch... its just amusing to me that people think our FO was smart enough to figure out that Joe would be better than Ryan. If they really thought that, then I doubt they go in offering four draft picks to get him, when they know they can get Joe for the pick they already had.

 

It doesn't need to be said that the draft isn't a crystal ball, because everybody knows that already. That's not the point at all.

[codizzle]

I only reference regular season games... there's really no point in referencing the postseason games.

The dome thing doesn't really matter that much to me.

Dome thing should matter.. Because I'm sure Matt wasn't playing in the same conditions we were against Minnesota last year

Atlanta has 6 home games in November and December while we have 4...

I can guarantee it's gonna pretty nice for them for all 6 games while I can probably guarantee at least two of ours will be nasty enough to affect the game

[arnie_uk]

That's actually way closer than I was expecting

Ryan plays half his games in a dome... Yea way closer than I would have guessed

And how does flacco only have 2 more games played?

that can't be correct?

[ravensdfan]

That doesn't matter...

 

lol

 

it does when you're arguing Ryan is better because they wanted him. They wanted Brady Quinn too. Think he's better than Flacco?

[arnie_uk]

I only reference regular season games... there's really no point in referencing the postseason games.

The dome thing doesn't really matter that much to me.

whys there no point? Because it doesn't help your argument? Postseason performance should be rated more if anything. Not ignored. If you have the data at hand can you show, reg season vs reg season, post vs post, overall vs overall

[rmcjacket23]

Dome thing should matter.. Because I'm sure Matt wasn't playing in the same conditions we were against Minnesota last year

Atlanta has 6 home games in November and December while we have 4...

I can guarantee it's gonna pretty nice for them for all 6 games while I can probably guarantee at least two of ours will be nasty enough to affect the game

In most of the games we play, its cold. That's it. We don't play barely any snow or even rain games.

 

If the dome thing is supposed to matter... why don't they put in asterisk on stats that come from a dome rather than from outside? Am I supposed to statistically adjust Ryan or Flacco's numbers for a hypothetical scenario of when they were or weren't playing in a dome?

[rmcjacket23]

lol

 

it does when you're arguing Ryan is better because they wanted him. They wanted Brady Quinn too. Think he's better than Flacco?

Nope, because I've seen Ryan's stats, and I've seen Quinn's stats.

 

The people that think Ryan is better than Flacco think so because, statistically, he is, and is in almost every area. Brady Quinn is not.

 

And obviously, at no point in time can you quote any post I made that indicates I think Ryan is better because the FO wanted him more. My posts are responses to various people on this thread alone that thought that our FO preferred Flacco over Ryan on draft day, when we clearly didn't.