Lardarius Webb (merged)

[K-Dog]

more gorrer than levine.  but yeah, both stunk

I would love a break down of the three of them.  See who was targeted most.

[gabefergy]

I still don't think it makes sense financially to cut him, but from a production standpoint he should go. Re-build the secondary around Hill and Jimmy Smith. Brooks might be decent too, but it's too early to tell.

[The Raven]

Webb is done.

 

Can't play CB because his knees are shot.

 

Can't play FS because he can't tackle or play with physicality. 

[Sami84]

Still wondering if his 2011 season was a product of a very good all-round defense that made him look better than he actually was.

[Grapple Raven]

I don't think his knees are the problem.  One of the last things I heard recently regarding Webby is that his back injury involves bulging disc issues (similar to what Osemele experienced last year).  I wouldn't be surprised to hear of Webby undergoing surgery for this as soon as the off season begins.  I would think how his contract situation is resolved revolves around this health issue.

[Sizzlebshu]

I still don't think it makes sense financially to cut him, but from a production standpoint he should go. Re-build the secondary around Hill and Jimmy Smith. Brooks might be decent too, but it's too early to tell.

Honestly at this point if we can get out of it with no money owed, I'd be with it. FWIW I don't think this is an effort or lack of concentration issue, I just feel that two acl tears saps too much of your athleticism for you to be able to keep up in the nfl. There are obv exceptions, but its starting to become a trend (webb, rg3, former giants corner who had 3)  

 

edit: Just checked the cap implications, we'd save about 5 mil so its worth it. Gotta rebuild the secondary thru the draft. Resigning Hill will be a huge priority. Fortunately other than Flacoo's contract, the rest of our team is relatively cheap next year

[Maryland]

At the time, I didn't understand why Ozzie chose Webb, who was coming off a bad season after tearing his ACL, as the target of his restructuring. I don't even remember a real reason for the emergency restructuring, but I guess there was some sort of reason. There had to have been several less-risky candidates.

 

Regardless of Webb's performance this season, we're stuck with him. You all can complain all you want, but it's best to just ride it out and hope he somehow gets better. There is basically zero chance he is gone in 2015 with Jimmy as our only other starting CB. We would incur 10 million in dead money, save a mere 2 million, and create another position to fill on our terrible secondary. 

 

I would not be opposed to trying to use Webb as a safety in 2015, but I would not try this experiment in the final 4 weeks of the season. We are even more thin at CB than S, so there is really no point. 

[BBoogieMan]

No issue at all if he's off the roster next year. A CB or 2 should be in the draft plans next year. Got mad respect for Webby but his production is only worth a spot if he takes a substantial paycut.

[Cillmatic]

We need to draft 2 CB's this year

[TuckerTime9]

We need to draft 2 CB's this year

No, that would lead to more problems. Why would we want some rookies that might pan out in a few years? The amount of talent we have now on offense is going to go to waste if we can't address these issues within 2-3 years. I love Jimmy Smith and am glad we drafted him, but why would we want another guy it'll take like 3 years to develop if we won't have a nearly as talented offense then? This roster could contend if we could find a way to get rid of Webb and sign someone like Chris Harris in the offseason. Rookie corners aren't going to help  our problems, they'll just add to the stress of being a fan. Please Ozzie, sign some vet corners and draft a talented WR/some sort of playmaker on offense.

[rmcjacket23]

Honestly at this point if we can get out of it with no money owed, I'd be with it. FWIW I don't think this is an effort or lack of concentration issue, I just feel that two acl tears saps too much of your athleticism for you to be able to keep up in the nfl. There are obv exceptions, but its starting to become a trend (webb, rg3, former giants corner who had 3)  

 

edit: Just checked the cap implications, we'd save about 5 mil so its worth it. Gotta rebuild the secondary thru the draft. Resigning Hill will be a huge priority. Fortunately other than Flacoo's contract, the rest of our team is relatively cheap next year

Its a $2M cap savings, and $10M in dead money. If you are using Spotrac for your information, they report his bonus wrong.

 

So that's really the question... is Webb worth $2M next season?

 

If you cut him, you're basically left with one great corner in Jimmy (coming off a major foot injury) and somebody who seems like can be a manageable corner in Asa Jackson, who is also coming off a significant injury. The rest are scrubs like Levine and Gorrer.

 

So you're down to two possibly healthy corners. You almost certainly have a limited supply of cap space to buy a corner, and there's no guarantee you'll get one. So you probably need two corners in the draft, and most rookie corners struggle heavily for at least the first 1-2 years.

 

Suddenly, you've probably used two draft picks on corners, none of them are probably going to be worth anything in 2015, and you still don't have a SS who can play at an NFL level. That ignores other possible positions we may need to address, such as TE, WR, DL, etc.

 

Suddenly, $2M for Webb seems like a good idea to me in the short-term. If we want to discuss getting rid of him in 2016, I'm all for it (in fact I'd almost guarantee it).

[ratedr]

Entering yesterday Webb was rated 105th out of 112 CBs by PFF. He's that bad.

[thisme007]

We need to give Rashaan Melvin a chance..

[rmw10]

We need to give Rashaan Melvin a chance..

 

I'm for it at this point.  We're not trotting out anything worthwhile.  Might as well give Jacobs and Melvin a chance and see if we can get some better results.  Fortunately, Asa will likely be back this week.  He wasn't anything spectacular but probably an upgrade over what we have now.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

I like Webb and I want him around but if it comes down to keeping him and letting McPhee walk or cutting him and giving the extra $8 million in cap space to McPhee we'd be foolish if we didn't go with option number two.I haven't completely lost faith in him and it wouldn't shock me if he came back next year playing competent football.But we can find a cheaper player to replace his value  to the team easily.

[rmw10]

I like Webb and I want him around but if it comes down to keeping him and letting McPhee walk or cutting him and giving the extra $5 million in cap space to McPhee we'd be foolish if we didn't go with option number two.I haven't completely lost faith in him and it wouldn't shock me if he came back next year playing competent football.But we can find a cheaper player to replace his value  to the team easily.

 

If we actually saved $5M, it would be a no brainer move to cut him.  However, the savings pre-June 1st are only $2M.  I've seen a lot of people, some of our Ravens writers including, using the Spotrac figure but it's incorrect.

[rmcjacket23]

Again, its $2M in cap space people, not $5M.

 

And I'll say this... if we're going to cut him, you better be damn sure you've got at least 1-2 more corners (outside of Jimmy and maybe Asa) on the roster by the time you do.

 

MAYBE a Post-June 1 cut after you've already gotten through most of FA and the draft, but $2M for a corner when you've already shown you have zero depth at the position to begin with doesn't seem like much...

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

Its a $2M cap savings, and $10M in dead money. If you are using Spotrac for your information, they report his bonus wrong.

 

So that's really the question... is Webb worth $2M next season?

 

If you cut him, you're basically left with one great corner in Jimmy (coming off a major foot injury) and somebody who seems like can be a manageable corner in Asa Jackson, who is also coming off a significant injury. The rest are scrubs like Levine and Gorrer.

 

So you're down to two possibly healthy corners. You almost certainly have a limited supply of cap space to buy a corner, and there's no guarantee you'll get one. So you probably need two corners in the draft, and most rookie corners struggle heavily for at least the first 1-2 years.

 

Suddenly, you've probably used two draft picks on corners, none of them are probably going to be worth anything in 2015, and you still don't have a SS who can play at an NFL level. That ignores other possible positions we may need to address, such as TE, WR, DL, etc.

 

Suddenly, $2M for Webb seems like a good idea to me in the short-term. If we want to discuss getting rid of him in 2016, I'm all for it (in fact I'd almost guarantee it).

 

 

According to overthecap.com,we'll only save $2 million if we cut him before June 1st and we'll save $8 million if cut him after that.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

If we actually saved $5M, it would be a no brainer move to cut him.  However, the savings pre-June 1st are only $2M.  I've seen a lot of people, some of our Ravens writers including, using the Spotrac figure but it's incorrect.

 

 

It's actually $8 million.I just changed it.We would save $8 million if we made him a June 1st cut

[Drew P]

Entering yesterday Webb was rated 105th out of 112 CBs by PFF. He's that bad.

 

Let me guess who rounded out the bottom

[rmw10]

It's actually $8 million.I just changed it.We would save $8 million if we made him a June 1st cut

Post June 1st doesn't help us much though because, as the designation would state, we don't get that money until June 1st. We'd need that money much earlier.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

I think Webb is as good as gone after learning what I just learned about the $8 million in cap space if he's a june 1st cut.

[rmcjacket23]

Post June 1st doesn't help us much though because, as the designation would state, we don't get that money until June 1st. We'd need that money much earlier.

Plus, it just means Webb would have another dead money hit in 2016.

 

No different than the Ray Rice release. We saved $4.75M against the cap in 2014, but he costs $9.5M against the cap in 2015. You don't actually get any total cap savings from a post-June 1 release... you just get to spread it out over two years basically.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

Post June 1st doesn't help us much though because, as the designation would state, we don't get that money until June 1st. We'd need that money much earlier.

 

 

When is the deadline for being under the cap?

[rmcjacket23]

I think Webb is as good as gone after learning what I just learned about the $8 million in cap space if he's a june 1st cut.

But again, that just means he will have dead money in 2016 too. A post June-1 cut saves cap space in year 1 and costs more cap space in year 2.

 

No different than Ray Rice costing us $9.5M in cap space in 2015, a full season after he was released.

[rmcjacket23]

When is the deadline for being under the cap?

Typically in March I believe, not sure of the exact date.

 

You can make a player a post June-1 cut before then, but you don't get the cap relief until June 1, so its sort of pointless unless you are really up against the cap.

 

The only way I see Webb getting a post June-1 cut is if the FO literally brings in like 1 FA corner starter and use another high draft pick on a corner, in which case they may find him expendable in the summer.

 

Cutting him in March would cause major possible issues in my opinion.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

Plus, it just means Webb would have another dead money hit in 2016.

 

No different than the Ray Rice release. We saved $4.75M against the cap in 2014, but he costs $9.5M against the cap in 2015. You don't actually get any total cap savings from a post-June 1 release... you just get to spread it out over two years basically.

 

 

We'd save $8 million and have $4 million in dead cap in both 2015 and 2016.

[rmcjacket23]

We'd save $8 million and have $4 million in dead cap in both 2015 and 2016.

No, we wouldn't.

 

If you cut him in 2014 (pre-June 1), he carries a $10M cap number in 2015 and $0 in 2016.

If you cut him in 2014 (post-June 1), he carries a $4M cap number in 2015 and a $6M cap number in 2016.

 

In both scenarios, the Ravens still have $10M in cap space that Webb will take up. The only question is whether they want to take it all in one year or take it over two years.

[rmw10]

All in all, it doesn't make much financial sense to cut Webb.  For $2M, you hold out hope that he returns to form.  We can't forget that he was a shutdown guy just a couple of years ago.  For as little savings as you would get, you take the chance and hope he can rebound.  $8M sounds fine and dandy post-June 1st but that doesn't help solve our problems.  The FA market in June is typically reserved for aging guys or guys coming off of injury looking for 1 year deals.  It doesn't help us bring anyone else in.

 

The only way I see Webb going is if we truly think he's done.  If we think his knees and/or back are shot, then I think we'll let him go regardless of cost.  That's not something us as fans know, though.

[jazz1988]

I doubt we cut Ladarius Webb but we definitely may ask him to take a pay cut. I think he's a capable nickel cornerback and I still think he isn't a 100 percent recovered from his back injury.