Official Vent thread vs Indy : who should walk home

[Drew P]

In a league designed to benefit the offense we scraped up 13 withe the defense and ST giving them an xtra 4 tries. Seeing how worthless the offense was playing, what make a you think the DC thinks he should get more aggressive? You do that and you're susceptible to give up bigger plays which will most likely lead to points you know the offense can't match. Now onto your point about the defense scoring, do you realize how difficult that is? The time you're talking about is over. You can't play defense close to the level of the 90s. Hell you can't play how you did in 07-08. The rules are geared to make a defenders job harder now and you want them to score as well cause our offense is inconsistent as all hell.

 

Im not sure how a defenders job got harder the Colts D looked like they had it fairly easy to me...its simple arithmetic send 5+ defenders and make the O line and QB beat you...the Ravens were rushing 3 and 4 men and it didnt work against Hoyer and it sure didnt work against Luck...the Colts benched Shipley and started a rookie and did the Ravens capitalize? Nope, imagine if Pagano had our squad to work with there would be bodies flying across that line through the double A gap all game long

[Static]

Our DL got mugged the entire game. The OL needs to see that and adjust.

[gabefergy]

OL was really bad, it was not just James Hurst getting beat although he didn't have a good game either. Some of it was just bad protection schemes compared to good pressure schemes from the Colts. Remember, Pagano is a pretty good DC.

 

Kubiak did not have his best game as a play-caller. The 4th &1 play was far too risky. It was essentially a play for 1 guy to get open and he fell down. Somewhat unlucky, but also too risky. If you are going to go for it make it a high probability play.

 

Run blocking wasn't great, but I felt like it had some good moments, especially in the 2nd half. Kubiak abandoned the run IMO, and it did not go well.

 

The WRs were awful. They couldn't get open vs man coverage, and when they did they dropped the ball, literally. Daniels was the lone bright spot as a receiver in this game.

 

Flacco played a decent game considering the pressure he was under and lack of open receivers. He extended several plays and could have had a massive gain if Marlon Brown doesn't give up on the ball on the final drive. That play was all Flacco, and it's a shame it didn't have a better outcome. Too many drops.

 

The defense did a good job at getting pressure at times, but they also let up too many big plays. These weren't necessarily blown coverages, but long conversions on 3rd down were a theme on defense. Give some credit to Luck and his receiving corps though. They made a lot of plays that the Ravens frankly did not.

 

Good run defense for the most part, although some shoddy tackling turned negative plays into solid gains. The Colts used a lot of screen plays to counter some aggressive front 7 plays.

 

Interesting notes:

 

Stewart played well in this game, and Elam sat for a number of snaps. Injury related or performance? 

 

Mosley was all over the field. He's looking like the DROY so far.

 

Webb logged 45 snaps and played fairly well to the naked eye. Jimmy Smith continues to be a shutdown corner. If Webb is back healthy it might mean we start moving to more man coverage schemes.

 

KO with a great combo block on the Forsett TD. He is playing at a very high level, especially in the run game.

 

Owen Daniels is stepping up nicely as safety blanket for Flacco. He's not as quick as Pitta, but he does have reliable hands and knows how to get open and use his body.

 

The secondary could have had 3 more INTs, but the Colts WRs did nice job of playing defender and Webb just dropped one.

[ravensdfan]

Am I a bad person for forgiving Joe for his performance against the Colts solely, because he almost made an amazing play rolling out of the pocket and thowing it deep to Marlon? So close and so awesome. If only the two of them could've connected.

 

If only Marlon didn't give up on the play. Wasn't a great pass but definitely could have been caught with some effort & if Marlon doesn't slow down.

[redrum52]

actually many people wanted koch cut in the offseason

Yea. Alot of people have been complaining about his decline in play for about a season and a half I think.

[3-4ravdef509]

There are two sides to every story. Dean Pees isn't a great coordinator or schemer. But he's good enough to hold teams from scoring points out the wazoo.

It's this simple: offense has to score at least 21 points a game. That's not unreasonable. The defense needs to do the same but inverted, strive to give up no more than 21 points. 38-6. That's our record over the past five years (since 2009) when our score is >=21. 16-25 is our record when we score 20 or less. It's not Rocket science. You can't score less than 21 and expect to have a chance to win. You can win, if you have a very good defense but it shouldn't come down to that.

Edit:

And that's not including post season.

[BmoreBird22]

Here is what I understand: When we sent pressure it resulted in a positive play for us 90% of the time. But, we rarely sent pressure. Yes there is a risk - which accounts for the 10% they converted. But I'll take those odds.

 

There is zero reason to rush 3 on Luck. Zerio. But we did it.

 

Stop making excuses for Pees - is he your uncle or something? His scheme sucks. Our red zone defense is awesome - great. But it is way less field to cover. His bend but don't break does exactly what everyone likes to blame the offense for - lopsided TOP. They forget that those 6,7,8 minute drives the defense allows makes the TOP lopsided as well. Yes they count towards TOP.

 

Those are facts.

 

This game, however, Kubiak's play calling was horrid. O line play was putrid. WRs weren't getting open (had a lot to do with no time too) and the running game wasn't getting it done either (cuz what I was afraid of happened, dropped what was working just so Pierce didn't get his feelings hurt sitting the bench).

 

It's a team loss for sure, but if we divide up blame the offensive side gets it.

I'll reply more in full when I get home, but please, show me where it shows the Ravens success when blitzing. Don't say you just saw it on TV or somewhere in passing. I want to see that stat

[Tank 92]

Am I a bad person for forgiving Joe for his performance against the Colts solely, because he almost made an amazing play rolling out of the pocket and thowing it deep to Marlon? So close and so awesome. If only the two of them could've connected.

Considering the position his body was in, it's pretty amazing that he was able to get that much on the throw.

[MTRavensFan]

It looks like off the field problems are manifesting on the field numbers. That's my guess. I'm not sure if his family is having hard times or what. That's my guess, but I'm not very sure on that. Regardless, he's thinking about something and it's definitely affecting his play as far as I can tell.

Sounds like it from that tweet.

 

Maybe not his family, but I'm sure that situation with two of their best friends has to be just disillusioning and heartbreaking for him and Chanel.

[MTRavensFan]

So are we pretending like Flacco has never played well or beyound well on the road? Other than that Interception Flacco made there was nothng i saw he could have done better because our offensive line was consistently allow him  to be pressured and just like Tom Brady when you don't give your quarterback enough time to make plays then the offense is going to look bad. 

 

I don't know what Flacco does on the side line but  he is what he is and he's been here  for six years. I don't  expect him to change but atleast Gary Kubiak actually sits down with Flacco to read over plays and etc to see what went wrong and what could have  been better unlike what Cam and Jim did.

that's been one of the really encouraging changes this year - the way he and Kubiak pow-wow on the sidelines.

[MTRavensFan]

If only Marlon didn't give up on the play. Wasn't a great pass but definitely could have been caught with some effort & if Marlon doesn't slow down.

I didn't see Marlon giving up. I actually thought he did a great job of trying to adjust to the ball once it was in the air, just couldn't quite make it.

[Inqui]

I'm not sure if Pees is a problem considering our defense isn't terrible and it's not terrific. It's certainly got areas to improve but it has done really nice qualities as well.

With that said, I still think a change could be beneficial. I don't even hate Dean. I just wonder if he's right for us. You know, the old "it's not you, it's me" deal. Perhaps the guys just don't respond well to his scheme and more importantly system.

Yeah, I was saying that after (from memory) the Cincy game in the Pees hate thread. I suspect there's less a problem of whether he's a good DC so much as how good he is as a foil for Kubiak.

 

I'm of the school of thought where in a perfect world you'd have an aggressive OC and conservative DC, or the other way around. That way, if one side of the ball gets burnt on a big play, the other side can keep things a bit more level (I know there were other problems there, but I think the 1993 Houston Oilers are a solid example).

 

Pees was a great complement for not letting a game get out of hand when we had Cam Cameron or Jim Caldwell dialing up 70-yard bombs every other drive, but with Kubiak's philosophy we're not getting a whole lot of big plays on either side of the ball and I don't see that changing too much during the season.

 

But maybe I'm completely off-base and there are other issues that need to be fixed. *shrugs*

[GrimCoconut]

Yeah, I was saying that after (from memory) the Cincy game in the Pees hate thread. I suspect there's less a problem of whether he's a good DC so much as how good he is as a foil for Kubiak.

I'm of the school of thought where in a perfect world you'd have an aggressive OC and conservative DC, or the other way around. That way, if one side of the ball gets burnt on a big play, the other side can keep things a bit more level (I know there were other problems there, but I think the 1993 Houston Oilers are a solid example).

Pees was a great complement for not letting a game get out of hand when we had Cam Cameron or Jim Caldwell dialing up 70-yard bombs every other drive, but with Kubiak's philosophy we're not getting a whole lot of big plays on either side of the ball and I don't see that changing too much during the season.

But maybe I'm completely off-base and there are other issues that need to be fixed. *shrugs*

That's a decent example and a good point. Then again, we did have Pagano with Cam, whose whole offense revolved around big plays.

[Cillmatic]

You think Steve Smith doesn't bring passion to the offense? I think other wise and I think it's about time we realize that Joe is not that type of leader to scream and yell at his players to play better it's not his style and it hasn't been his style for six years now.

Flacco's not ANY type of leader. I don't even remember him ever talking to any other receiver on the sideline BUT Pitta! When your team as no one else, the QB is supposed to be the guy, Joe needs to change and become that guy. ATLEAST talk to some receivers instead of sitting alone on the bench.

[The Raven]

Preston had a pretty great column about our offensive woes yesterday.

 

We simply didn't run the ball enough. We averaged six yards a carry yesterday and yet we gave up on the run. Ridiculous.

[BmoreBird22]

Flacco's not ANY type of leader. I don't even remember him ever talking to any other receiver on the sideline BUT Pitta! When your team as no one else, the QB is supposed to be the guy, Joe needs to change and become that guy. ATLEAST talk to some receivers instead of sitting alone on the bench.

Do you just watch the games or do you have some sort of replay that allows you to see the sideline throughout the entire game?

Preston had a pretty great column about our offensive woes yesterday.

We simply didn't run the ball enough. We averaged six yards a carry yesterday and yet we gave up on the run. Ridiculous.

Wasn't that what happened week one?

[The Raven]

Flacco's not ANY type of leader. I don't even remember him ever talking to any other receiver on the sideline BUT Pitta! When your team as no one else, the QB is supposed to be the guy, Joe needs to change and become that guy. ATLEAST talk to some receivers instead of sitting alone on the bench.

 

Camera angle only shows Flacco sitting alone so we can infer that Flacco never talks to anyone... That's what you're saying?

 

This ridiculous idea you have here is wrong and has been proven wrong repeatedly. Flacco is much more vocal than you want to believe. You can't make judgments based on a handful of camera shots in a game. 

 

Flacco's a leader. I believe the Ravens site had a video a few weeks ago showing some clips of Joe on the sideline that showed him as be a leader.

[The Raven]

Wasn't that what happened week one?

 

Indeed it was. Though I can understand why we deviated from the run in both games. Bengals and Colts have high powered offenses that influence teams to try to keep up with them in the air.

 

In actuality, you don't have to keep up with them in the air, just on the scoreboard. 

[BmoreBird22]

Indeed it was. Though I can understand why we deviated from the run in both games. Bengals and Colts have high powered offenses that influence teams to try to keep up with them in the air.

 

In actuality, you don't have to keep up with them in the air, just on the scoreboard. 

I don't understand the reasoning, honestly. In knowing that both teams have a very strong passing attack, I'd be inclined to try to run the ball and try to keep them off the field for as long as possible.

[The Raven]

I don't understand the reasoning, honestly. In knowing that both teams have a very strong passing attack, I'd be inclined to try to run the ball and try to keep them off the field for as long as possible.

 

I can understand wanting to keep up with the Colts' tempo, but I agree with you. I'd much rather try and run the ball and take up clock.

 

When you take up time AND score, you put pressure on the other team to score fast. When a team feels pressure to score fast, they turn the ball over. That's when Dean Pees' defense starts to kick in. Pees' defense works best when the other team feels pressure. That's when the turnovers come, as we saw in the previous few games. 

[Ravenseconbeast]

Preston had a pretty great column about our offensive woes yesterday.

 

We simply didn't run the ball enough. We averaged six yards a carry yesterday and yet we gave up on the run. Ridiculous.

 

 

With the way we were performing on D'.  We needed to put some TOP and deplete their Defense.  Shame..  Another +60 pass 100% fail rate.

[BmoreBird22]

I can understand wanting to keep up with the Colts' tempo, but I agree with you. I'd much rather try and run the ball and take up clock.

 

When you take up time AND score, you put pressure on the other team to score fast. When a team feels pressure to score fast, they turn the ball over. That's when Dean Pees' defense starts to kick in. Pees' defense works best when the other team feels pressure. That's when the turnovers come, as we saw in the previous few games. 

When you only run the ball 15 times, you get a 1/3 TOP ratio for your team.

 

The Ravens offense just seems to lack a consistent identity at the moment. They said all summer long that they'd be a strong running team, and they've shown they can be, but they need to stick with it in these close games. Two scores with over 20 minutes left is not a reason to get away from the run.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

Joe Flacco, three of the four Smiths, Jacobi Jones and the head coach. It was a

lackluster performance by all of the afore-mentioned and Indy as well. The turnovers

and penalties were very costly.

[gabefergy]

I didn't see Marlon giving up. I actually thought he did a great job of trying to adjust to the ball once it was in the air, just couldn't quite make it.

Adjusstment was good, but he gave up on the ball. You can see him almost dive for the ball, but he doesn't pull the trigger for whatever reason. It lands barely a yard away from him.

[jazz1988]

Flacco's not ANY type of leader. I don't even remember him ever talking to any other receiver on the sideline BUT Pitta! When your team as no one else, the QB is supposed to be the guy, Joe needs to change and become that guy. ATLEAST talk to some receivers instead of sitting alone on the bench.

I saw him have conversations with Torrey before but honestly I think we as fans just have to accept what Flacco is  right now. He's been in the league for about seven years now and is 29 years old. He's not that type of player thats going to get in players grills  telling them to this or that right. He's just not that guy and he's been like this for years and we have been consistent winning team for years. 

 

Joe is Joe

[BmoreBird22]

I didn't see Marlon giving up. I actually thought he did a great job of trying to adjust to the ball once it was in the air, just couldn't quite make it.

He ran his route, but that was kind of it. He didn't seem to realize that Joe was trying to buy his time, and by the time he did, he wasn't really aware of what to do or where the ball was. Maybe he didn't give up in the sense that he just stopped, but he didn't do the right things to help Joe out.

[BmoreBird22]

OL was really bad, it was not just James Hurst getting beat although he didn't have a good game either. Some of it was just bad protection schemes compared to good pressure schemes from the Colts. Remember, Pagano is a pretty good DC.

 

Stewart played well in this game, and Elam sat for a number of snaps. Injury related or performance? 

 

Webb logged 45 snaps and played fairly well to the naked eye. Jimmy Smith continues to be a shutdown corner. If Webb is back healthy it might mean we start moving to more man coverage schemes.

I thought the offensive line got progressively worse as you moved to the left. I thought Wagner was great, and it just kinda got worse as you moved toward Hurst, who was abysmal. Some it was honestly just that the Colts sent several overload blitzes and the Ravens were too stubborn to commit extra blockers. 

 

I thought Elam played well, as did Stewart. Elam missed about 30 snaps. I know he was injured at one point after getting cut by Bradshaw, but I don't think that had to do with missing 30 snaps. 

 

I wasn't too impressed with Webb, but maybe it's because I know what he's capable of. He was very quick to open up his hips and gave very large cushions, like he was worried his back would tighten up and cause stiffness that would allow a receiver to beat him over the top. I'm sure that will go away with trust in his back, but it was definitely not his best game.

[ravensdfan]

I'll reply more in full when I get home, but please, show me where it shows the Ravens success when blitzing. Don't say you just saw it on TV or somewhere in passing. I want to see that stat

 

dude, I can eyeball it. Why?

 

1. I can count. I know the difference between rushing 3 and rushing 4.

2. I can clearly see a guy (or two) coming off the edge at the snap. Yes, it is clear.

3. I know the definition of successful. If you get pressure enough that you disrupt the timing, if you get a sack, if you tip the pass, etc.

4. I know the definition of unsuccessful i.e. they move the chains and you don't get off the field.

 

For some things yes, you'd need a play breakdown - but you can clearly see blitzes by watching and you can clearly discern if it was successful or not.

[gabefergy]

I thought the offensive line got progressively worse as you moved to the left. I thought Wagner was great, and it just kinda got worse as you moved toward Hurst, who was abysmal. Some it was honestly just that the Colts sent several overload blitzes and the Ravens were too stubborn to commit extra blockers.

I thought Elam played well, as did Stewart. Elam missed about 30 snaps. I know he was injured at one point after getting cut by Bradshaw, but I don't think that had to do with missing 30 snaps.

I wasn't too impressed with Webb, but maybe it's because I know what he's capable of. He was very quick to open up his hips and gave very large cushions, like he was worried his back would tighten up and cause stiffness that would allow a receiver to beat him over the top. I'm sure that will go away with trust in his back, but it was definitely not his best game.

It was just good seeing Webb looking close to normal, especially after the way he looked in week 3. He didn't have a great game, but he looked quick to me and was able to close on the ball. I think getting those reps are important for him at this juncture. He's going to have step into a bigger role now that Jackson is hurt.

[rmw10]

It was just good seeing Webb looking close to normal, especially after the way he looked in week 3. He didn't have a great game, but he looked quick to me and was able to close on the ball. I think getting those reps are important for him at this juncture. He's going to have step into a bigger role now that Jackson is hurt.

 

You could definitely tell that he was much healthier and ready to go yesterday.  I'm not sure he's in 100% game shape yet, as he did have a somewhat slow reaction a couple of times, but it's huge improvement over the disaster that was his first game where he looked like he was 80 years old.  He definitely looks to be returning to normal though.