How do you feel about Juan Castillo now?

[rmcjacket23]

Agreed. The team does need to be able to do both. But I think fans were peeved that he was forcing the team to use a system that they were not yet comfortable with and frankly could not do very well yet. Maybe they needed to practice more. Or maybe his teaching technique was not working. Either way, it led to Joe getting sacked quite a lot.

And thats a fair point, except it contradicts what a lot of fans think, which is that the best way to get players "practice" is to put them in those situations in real games and make them learn.

 

These boards are full of people who want us to "give young players a chance" and all that stuff, yet we basically did that exact same thing with our offensive line last season. We changed our strategy on the offensive line, and we decided to do it in the regular season and let the players gain experience with it. The result wasn't what fans wanted, and that's why they demanded change. Fans just simply couldn't handle the idea. And ironically, the Ravens probably couldn't have picked a better season to do this, because no realistic fan thought we had a SB contending team in terms of talent last season.

 

This very concept is what I've been preaching on these boards for so long. This demand for young guys like Brown, Aiken, Campanaro, and Brooks to play is all well and fine and all, but lets not pretend like there's no risk involved in that. Despite what a lot of fans think, it is possible that those guys simply won't play well, and perhaps not even play as well as the guy they replaced. That is a distinct possibility, because not every player we draft or touch becomes gold.

 

Its sort of ironic though. We want more playing time for young WRs and linebackers, yet that goes directly in the face of the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality, since neither of those situations is an area of weakness for us right now. So it would appear, to me, that fans are being selective in this case, particularly when they already know the outcome.

 

Its easy to say "well if it ain't broke don't fix it" when we know the outcome of the choice, but fans aren't responsible when they get their wish for something and it doesn't go the way they planned.

[BmoreBird22]

Admittedly there were numerous problems. So it didn't seem like a good idea to force the line to run a system that they were not yet comfortable using.

The offensive line wasn't going to do well no matter what scheme they ran. That line just had too many chemistry issues and injuries. Better to teach the scheme then when they had a full year to acclimate against actual opponents than in the preseason where no one actually game plans

[rmcjacket23]

Admittedly there were numerous problems. So it didn't seem like a good idea to force the line to run a system that they were not yet comfortable using.

Why isn't it? Seems to me its the perfect time.

[jaege]

The reason fans think this is because of how dominant the offensive line was in the 2012 postseason. They completely ignore the fact that the offensive line wasn't dominant at all throughout the 16 games before that. They were pretty mediocre, maybe slightly above average at best.

 

I completely support the idea of adaptation and growth, particularly in the NFL. The "if it ain't broke don't fix it" theory is nice and cute and all, but in modern day society, its antiquated at best. By adopting that strategy, all you'll find is that eventually it will become "broke", everybody else already knew it was going to break, and you're the one playing catchup to everybody else in the league.

 

 

Yes, in Fantasyland you upgrade everything as soon as the new shiny idea comes out. But in a modern society that is ruled by money and time, sometimes that is just not possible. The theory of improve and upgrade immediately is nice and cute as well, but it doesn't always make fiscal or functional sense. The team learning the ZBS was a good idea, but using it immediately, while the team essentially butchered just didn't have much success.

[BmoreBird22]

Yes, in Fantasyland you upgrade everything as soon as the new shiny idea comes out. But in a modern society that is ruled by money and time, sometimes that is just not possible. The theory of improve and upgrade immediately is nice and cute as well, but it doesn't always make fiscal or functional sense. The team learning the ZBS was a good idea, but using it immediately, while the team essentially butchered just didn't have much success.

This is the NFL, so money isn't a huge issue in this case, and they weren't going to the playoffs, so functionality wasn't an issue

[rmcjacket23]

Yes, in Fantasyland you upgrade everything as soon as the new shiny idea comes out. But in a modern society that is ruled by money and time, sometimes that is just not possible. The theory of improve and upgrade immediately is nice and cute as well, but it doesn't always make fiscal or functional sense. The team learning the ZBS was a good idea, but using it immediately, while the team essentially butchered just didn't have much success.

So whats the alternative then? If we've decided we want to go to a ZBS for obvious reasons, when is the right time to implement it?

 

Are you supposed to practice it throughout training camp and preseason, and then switch back to man blocking for the regular season because they're "not ready for it yet"? How many seasons would you continue to do that?

 

Again, I can't think of a single season that would have been a better opportunity to make that transition than 2013.

[jaege]

Why isn't it? Seems to me its the perfect time.

 

Because one purpose of the o-line is to protect our very expensive QB. Joe got the snot knocked out of him last year. He could have been seriously or even permanently injured. If we have a weakened o-line maybe they should be allowed to use what they know and slowly acclimate to the new.

[rmcjacket23]

Because one purpose of the o-line is to protect our very expensive QB. Joe got the snot knocked out of him last year. He could have been seriously or even permanently injured. If we have a weakened o-line maybe they should be allowed to use what they know and slowly acclimate to the new.

Same thing could be said for any season... its called the risk of being a football player. QBs suffer serious injuries behind quality offensive lines on an annual basis in this league. That's nothing new.

 

Again... how long do you wait? Do you wait until Joe retires to make the transition to a new scheme? There is literally no season where we can guarantee a transition would run smoothly, regardless of who the personnel is.

[BmoreBird22]

Because one purpose of the o-line is to protect our very expensive QB. Joe got the snot knocked out of him last year. He could have been seriously or even permanently injured. If we have a weakened o-line maybe they should be allowed to use what they know and slowly acclimate to the new.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but ZBS refers to your run blocking, not pass blocking

[The Raven]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but ZBS refers to your run blocking, not pass blocking

 

ZBS is used in pass blocking, but it only affects the individual assignments, not the technique. I am not buying the crappy excuse that ZBS killed our pass protection. If anything, ZBS makes pass blocking ten times easier. ZBS was actually adopted into pass protection schemes to make it easier to pick up blitzes. To blame ZBS for pass blocking woes is misguided. 

[BmoreBird22]

ZBS is used in pass blocking, but it only affects the individual assignments, not the technique. I am not buying the crappy excuse that ZBS killed our pass protection. If anything, ZBS makes pass blocking ten times easier. ZBS was actually adopted into pass protection schemes to make it easier to pick up blitzes. To blame ZBS for pass blocking woes is misguided.

I often hear it referred to as the easiest and least complex blocking technique

[The Raven]

I often hear it referred to as the easiest and least complex blocking technique

 

As far as learning assignments, yes, it is the simplest blocking scheme ever. Block the guy on your play side gap, if there isn't a linemen, get the backer. That's why I don't get why people hate it so much. It's the easiest thing to learn. The only hard part is the footwork, but there are ways to modify it to make that easier. 

[jaege]

Same thing could be said for any season... its called the risk of being a football player. QBs suffer serious injuries behind quality offensive lines on an annual basis in this league. That's nothing new.

 

Again... how long do you wait? Do you wait until Joe retires to make the transition to a new scheme? There is literally no season where we can guarantee a transition would run smoothly, regardless of who the personnel is.

 

 

Are you one of those guys that just likes to argue? This is a trivial point. Truth is we didn't do well last year. Was it ZBS? Lost and injured players? A screwed up coaching situation? All of them? Probably all of them. Regardless, we did not do as well as the team could have. Will our arguing the fine points change the result? No. Will it change anything this year. No.

 

Like it or not, for whatever reason, Castillo is here to stay. So is his ZBS. So far it looks like it will be a much improved year this year over last, so I am good with it. I am also weary of this topic. Argue with someone else.

[rmcjacket23]

Are you one of those guys that just likes to argue? This is a trivial point. Truth is we didn't do well last year. Was it ZBS? Lost and injured players? A screwed up coaching situation? All of them? Probably all of them. Regardless, we did not do as well as the team could have. Will our arguing the fine points change the result? No. Will it change anything this year. No.

 

Like it or not, for whatever reason, Castillo is here to stay. So is his ZBS. So far it looks like it will be a much improved year this year over last, so I am good with it. I am also weary of this topic. Argue with someone else.

You literally just echoed everything I've been saying for the last 12 months...

[jaege]

You literally just echoed everything I've been saying for the last 12 months...

 

 

 

It sounded like we were sort of agreeing, but I couldn't tell.

 

 

You made good points. Everything else is just opinion anyway.

[BmoreBird22]

You literally just echoed everything I've been saying for the last 12 months...

People often relent when they realize their argument is wrong, but don't want to admit it

[beasy2487]

You literally just echoed everything I've been saying for the last 12 months...

 

 

Lol. Your passive, aggressive aren't you?

 

It sounded like we were sort of agreeing, but I couldn't tell.

 

 

You made good points. Everything else is just opinion anyway.

 

 

People often relent when they realize their argument is wrong, but don't want to admit it

 

This exchange is amusing. I've heard about agreeing to disgree, but disagreeing to agree is a new one. We sure are an argumentative bunch lol.

[BmoreBird22]

This exchange is amusing. I've heard about agreeing to disgree, but disagreeing to agree is a new one. We sure are an argumentative bunch lol.

I just don't like seeing so much unfair blame put on Castillo

[beasy2487]

I just don't like seeing so much unfair blame put on Castillo

Haha yea we're on the same page, I was just entertained by the begrudging agreement.

[jaege]

People often relent when they realize their argument is wrong, but don't want to admit it

 

 I only relent when I am tired of trying to convince people that they are wrong.

[Inqui]

I often hear it referred to as the easiest and least complex blocking technique

This should be required reading for anyone who even wants to put "ZBS" in their posts. It's specifically about the Texans, but the principles of any ZBS are the same:

http://grantland.com/features/chris-brown-gary-kubiak-houston-texans-running-game/

[edthehead]

the line is good,so for my rant last year hating on castillo,just want to say ,,,GOOD JOB,,,

[BmoreBird22]

I only relent when I am tired of trying to convince people that they are wrong.

When you can bring concrete facts and a coherent argument, that might have some merit

[jaege]

When you can bring concrete facts and a coherent argument, that might have some merit

 

 

The original topic was about feelings. As in "how do you FEEL about Castillo now" Feelings are not supported by concrete fact, nor do they require coherent arguments. And all feelings have merit, even yours.

[BmoreBird22]

The original topic was about feelings. As in "how do you FEEL about Castillo now" Feelings are not supported by concrete fact, nor do they require coherent arguments. And all feelings have merit, even yours.

No, but when people begin to put all the blame on Juan Castillo, it's a problem that requires facts and a coherent argument

[jaege]

I agree, but the topic was how people felt. If they feel that all the blame is his, right or wrong, you cannot argue how someone feels. Personally, I do not feel or think that he should get all the blame. Some of the blame from last year, yes, but he also gets some of the credit from this year. Likewise when people try to give all the credit to Castillo it requires facts and coherent arguments as well. Unless it is just a feeling.