How do you feel about Juan Castillo now?

[BmoreBird22]

Exactly my point. Juan is well known as a hard butt, and McKinnie is well known as a lazy bum.

I like how Juan is intense and very involved with his practices. Can't remember which player it was, but one said he will get out there and performed the drills with them and was doing everything they did. That's how to coach

[beasy2487]

Bisciotti said the "ruffled feathers" remark.

 

True, but per the re-post from RMC, I think the McKinnie statements put the Bisciotti statements in context. He ruffled feathers because you had guys set in their ways that weren't willing to get better. It reminds me of what happened at UMD when Edsall came in. He was hated by the players (my younger sister is close friends with some of them) because Fridge was the consummate players coach. I think if you had asked the AD about that last year he would say something like "Edsall 'ruffled feathers' in his first year." Now though, the players are buying in and we're seeing the early results of that buy-in.

 

To put it another way, when I was kid and my Mom fed me Robitussin I told her it was disgusting and I was mad at her for making it take it. Doesn't mean it didn't make me better. Our players took their medicine this offseason and we're seeing the product on the field.

[ravensdfan]

From the Baltimore Sun story:

"Juan likes to develop young players, because that's what he did in Philly," McKinnie said. "He is a good coach and he does help you with your technique, but he wants it done a certain way. My thing is everybody doesn't have the exact same talent or learn things the same way. I don't feel like you can coach everybody exactly the same. Not everyone is going to react the same.

"Five individuals can't do the same thing. That's what they have instead of trying to make everybody a robot. You need to learn about your players and know their strengths and weaknesses and coach them that way. Juan is highly-rated, but it takes time to adjust to what he's looking for. There's a lot of thinking involved. So, it's a lot of change for everyone to take in."

- McKinnie

 

Is it just me, or does that sound like a lot of excuses?

 

Alright - quite honestly - what is excuses about it?

 

Does a coach not have to know their players and their strengths & weaknesses?

Does Castillo NOT want things done a certain way? I believe even Harbaugh said something similar to that thought.

Doesn't every one have a different talent and way of learning?

Was it not a lot of change for everyone to take in?

 

I just don't think it's an insulting statement or a bad statement. He even begins by saying he's a very good coach that helps you with your technique.

 

I went back and read it several times trying to find the lazy & insulting thing he said. Unless I'm just missing something.

[Ravens1991]

Doing research on him in his 4 years at Texas AM Kingsville as an oline coach he produced 4 NFL olineman. That is ridiculous coming out of a small school like that. He is probably a real good technician who was in over his head as a coordinator.

[The Raven]

Alright - quite honestly - what is excuses about it?

 

Does a coach not have to know their players and their strengths & weaknesses?

Does Castillo NOT want things done a certain way? I believe even Harbaugh said something similar to that thought.

Doesn't every one have a different talent and way of learning?

Was it not a lot of change for everyone to take in?

 

I just don't think it's an insulting statement or a bad statement. He even begins by saying he's a very good coach that helps you with your technique.

 

I went back and read it several times trying to find the lazy & insulting thing he said. Unless I'm just missing something.

 

To understand what I'm saying, you'll have to look at the context and analyze more than just what's said. When you look McKinnie's history versus Castillo's, these quotes certainly sound like excuses. I don't know how you can deny it, but whatever. I'm not having yet another pointless back and forth with you.

 

Castillo has a proven track record, and his ability as a coach is on display this season. How much of last year was on him or Caldwell, we'll never know. Is this year's success just because Kubiak is here? We'll never know. What we do know is this: The OC has changed, Castillo is the constant, and the oline is better. That's all I need to know about this situation.

[BmoreBird22]

To understand what I'm saying, you'll have to look at the context and analyze more than just what's said. When you look McKinnie's history versus Castillo's, these quotes certainly sound like excuses. I don't know how you can deny it, but whatever. I'm not having yet another pointless back and forth with you.

 

Castillo has a proven track record, and his ability as a coach is on display this season. How much of last year was on him or Caldwell, we'll never know. Is this year's success just because Kubiak is here? We'll never know. What we do know is this: The OC has changed, Castillo is the constant, and the oline is better. That's all I need to know about this situation.

People have a decided opinion on whether or not they like someone, and most people decided they did not like Castillo. Because of that, the offensive failures last year were all him, but the offensive success is Kubiak's. If that's the case, why even bother paying Juan

[5aiah]

Doing research on him in his 4 years at Texas AM Kingsville as an oline coach he produced 4 NFL olineman. That is ridiculous coming out of a small school like that. He is probably a real good technician who was in over his head as a coordinator.

I don't think he was in over his head or ever did a bad job. McKinnie and Oher just weren't good fits for our ZBS and Gino Gradkowski just wasn't ready to be a starting center. 

[berad]

Another thing!!! We keep hearing that Castillo ruffled some feathers. After thinking about who said it (Bryant McFattie), I think he ruffled feathers with his intensity. I heard that his practice drills are intense and much more physical than in the past. I think maybe he ruffled feathers more with the practice intensity than with any system change. Knowing that McKinnie is a lard, I think this is accurate.

True, probably McKinnie and Moeller, too.

Considering we traded away McKinnie, one of the laziest Ravens ever, and brought in Monroe who is one of the hardest-working, you can see where we're going with it lol.

[Purple Punishment]

True, probably McKinnie and Moeller, too.

Considering we traded away McKinnie, one of the laziest Ravens ever, and brought in Monroe who is one of the hardest-working, you can see where we're going with it lol.

Say what you want but without him at LT in the 2012 Playoffs, we would NOT be Super Bowl Champions. I don't care what anyone says, we lose without him

[Inqui]

I don't think he was in over his head or ever did a bad job. McKinnie and Oher just weren't good fits for our ZBS and Gino Gradkowski just wasn't ready to be a starting center. 

He used to be, of all things you wouldn't expect, the defensive co-ordinator of the Philadelphia Eagles. He ran a wide-nine system and was in the ballpark of a Cam Cameron. Thankfully for us, as it means you wouldn't back him to get promoted any time soon.

[Inqui]

Yes, I would agree. I think Caldwell, Castillo, and Moeller all had different ideas of how to block things. A big piece of evidence for this is the fact that Moeller is now the OL coach with Caldwell.

 

And again I'll note this: Position coaches are responsible for player technique. Our technique vastly improved from last year. That, along with Juan's track record, says something.

I said at the time I felt that was the biggest factor. People are saying he were great, then terrible when he came in. Ergo he was the catalyst for our bad OL, and I don't buy it. Anyone saying that should read the first few paragraphs of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

 

More likely I think was that we had three conflicting coaches on the line. And McKinnie got lazy, Oher quit on the team, Gradkowski just sucked and KO/Yanda got hurt. To me there's more correlation in that idea.

[jaege]

People have a decided opinion on whether or not they like someone, and most people decided they did not like Castillo. Because of that, the offensive failures last year were all him, but the offensive success is Kubiak's. If that's the case, why even bother paying Juan

 

 

One word. Cronyism.

[ravensdfan]

To understand what I'm saying, you'll have to look at the context and analyze more than just what's said. When you look McKinnie's history versus Castillo's, these quotes certainly sound like excuses. I don't know how you can deny it, but whatever. I'm not having yet another pointless back and forth with you.

 

Castillo has a proven track record, and his ability as a coach is on display this season. How much of last year was on him or Caldwell, we'll never know. Is this year's success just because Kubiak is here? We'll never know. What we do know is this: The OC has changed, Castillo is the constant, and the oline is better. That's all I need to know about this situation.

 

Sorry didn't know that your opinion was the only correct opinion. You seem to take issue anytime someone disagrees with your POV.

 

One word. Cronyism.

 

I don't believe that would be the case. Possible I suppose but I don't think they'd pay him for doing nothing.

 

I said at the time I felt that was the biggest factor. People are saying he were great, then terrible when he came in. Ergo he was the catalyst for our bad OL, and I don't buy it. Anyone saying that should read the first few paragraphs of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

 

More likely I think was that we had three conflicting coaches on the line. And McKinnie got lazy, Oher quit on the team, Gradkowski just sucked and KO/Yanda got hurt. To me there's more correlation in that idea.

 

Gradkowski was definitely bad. No denying that point. I'm not sure Oher quit on the team, he seemed to be a team player. They moved him from LT to RT then back to LT then back to RT and he never complained.

 

Upon further reflection though, I guess he could have gotten tired of being moved about & also knew we weren't going to pay him LT money. I think there were grumblings about what the Ravens offered for an extension either before or during the season.

 

We did talk about there being too many cooks in the kitchen during the season and that being a big part of the problem. The issue though was that it was working before he came here with the cooks already there - so the cook causing the issue would be the new one. It isn't an "I hate Castillo" club - it is a "why did we mess with what was working" club.

[berad]

Say what you want but without him at LT in the 2012 Playoffs, we would NOT be Super Bowl Champions. I don't care what anyone says, we lose without him

You're right, he was very good when he put in the effort.

[5aiah]

He used to be, of all things you wouldn't expect, the defensive co-ordinator of the Philadelphia Eagles. He ran a wide-nine system and was in the ballpark of a Cam Cameron. Thankfully for us, as it means you wouldn't back him to get promoted any time soon.

I remember that time, and I remember a few knowledgeable people making the point that he was a scapegoat when he got fired, in the ballpark of a Cam Cameron.

[BmoreBird22]

 it is a "why did we mess with what was working" club.

Because when you have the chance to get better, you take it. That line was far from perfect and there was plenty of room for improvement

[ravensdfan]

Because when you have the chance to get better, you take it. That line was far from perfect and there was plenty of room for improvement

 

Absolutely but there certainly was a better way of getting from Point A to B without having to hit zero on the way. Not sure who would be at fault in that case, probably a little of everyone.

[Greatness]

Still dont like him. He tried to fix something that wasnt broken. The players knew it but the coaching arrogance played it off like it was the players faults. It took a real offensive mind that actually knows what he is doing to make it work(zbs). Thanks Kubes, you took Harbs off the hotseat for him backing Castillos failed plan last year.

Wrapped that up and put a nice bow on it. Haha

[BmoreBird22]

Absolutely but there certainly was a better way of getting from Point A to B without having to hit zero on the way. Not sure who would be at fault in that case, probably a little of everyone.

I'm sure it was everyone. Castillo likes the ZBS, Caldwell liked man, and so did Moeller. Three different guys saying different things sure doesn't help

[Blackbirds Rule]

Monroe osemele zuttah and yanda where all already good players before castillo even touched them.

 

why people all of a sudden wanna credit him is beyond me.

 

mckinnie osemele birk yanda and oher where playing at a high level on that SB run only for them to kick the bucket the very next season when castillo got involved.

 

now insert kubiak and things are looking better again.

 

the wrong person is getting credit over here......

McKinnie stopped trying, Osemele was too hurt to even play well, Gradkowski just wasn't good, Yanda got hurt, Oher had his worst season as a pro. I think Oher knew his time with the Ravens was over and didn't want to get hurt prior to the offseason where he could get a better offer than he would get here. I don't think Oher gave up. i just think he didn't do the extra stuff he used to do like finish off run plays. He had a nastiness about him his rookie year and every year after that he lost a little of it.

 

Wagner and Hurst have only had Castillo as a teacher and they both have performed good so far. You say we give the wrong person too much credit. I think you're giving Castillo too little credit. As other posters have commented. We had too many cooks in the kitchen. Now we have one main cook Castillo and Kubiak is the exceutive chef who makes sure the meal fits within the menu. They both work very well together.

[jaege]

 

I don't believe that would be the case. Possible I suppose but I don't think they'd pay him for doing nothing.

 

 

 

 

I was only half serious. I do believe he was hired, at least in part, because he was John's pal. As much as I love the guy, I really think that John has a habit of doing that. Begrudgingly I have to admit that the o-line is coming around and it cannot just be because of Kubiak. So Castillo must be doing something right.

[rmcjacket23]

I was only half serious. I do believe he was hired, at least in part, because he was John's pal. As much as I love the guy, I really think that John has a habit of doing that. Begrudgingly I have to admit that the o-line is coming around and it cannot just be because of Kubiak. So Castillo must be doing something right.

You'd be hard pressed to find a HC in this league that DOES NOT hire his "pals".

 

I would almost guarantee that every single HC in this league has assistants working for him that they probably worked with in the past in some role.

 

That's not a Harbaugh problem. That's just the way of the NFL.

 

As much as fans like to bash Castillo, there's a couple things that fans have to understand...

 

1. The guy is universally respected by his peers in the industry that he works in. If the Ravens fired him today, he'd be coaching on another NFL team by next week.

2. He's been employed as an NFL coach in some form or fashion for basically 20 consecutive years now (longer than this franchise has even existed), and he's been coaching offensive lineman for the overwhelming majority of that time.

 

Whether fans like it or not, the NFL likes his coaching skills. And that's really all that matters.

[beasy2487]

You'd be hard pressed to find a HC in this league that DOES NOT hire his "pals".

 

I would almost guarantee that every single HC in this league has assistants working for him that they probably worked with in the past in some role.

 

That's not a Harbaugh problem. That's just the way of the NFL.

 

As much as fans like to bash Castillo, there's a couple things that fans have to understand...

 

1. The guy is universally respected by his peers in the industry that he works in. If the Ravens fired him today, he'd be coaching on another NFL team by next week.

2. He's been employed as an NFL coach in some form or fashion for basically 20 consecutive years now (longer than this franchise has even existed), and he's been coaching offensive lineman for the overwhelming majority of that time.

 

Whether fans like it or not, the NFL likes his coaching skills. And that's really all that matters.

 

I'm in 100% agreement here. Putting together an NFL squad is chess, not checkers, and not everything you do will translate to the field and vice versa. I think Carolina is a perfect example of this. Last year if you asked anyone about Gettleman all you would hear is how much of a calculating genius he is, whereas this year he's a cold-hearted gambler that bet wrong and lost. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Gettleman's strategy last year paid off and that exact strategy isn't paying off this year. Injuries, scheduling, talent, and all kinds of other variables play into the product on the field and no one person can guarantee that all of those things will go your way. In this kind of environment, all you can do is lean on someone's pedigree. In that regard, no one has a better track record than Castillo as a teacher of football fundamentals. So much so that he was trusted to run a defense when he spent his entire career (at least to the outside world) coaching O-line. You can say, "Oh well Andy Reid just did that because he was his buddy." Sure he did. But he also had to have faith that the guy could do the job because his job security was in jeopardy as well. The notion that these guys will put their friends in a position and let them fail is ridiculous given that the head coach is on the hook too. When push truly comes to shove, friends get jettisoned (See: Cameron, Cam circa 2012).

 

Bill Parcells said it best. As an NFL head coach, you have to accept that your best friends will let you down you will have to make tough choices because of it. Castillo is still here because he's a great coach, not because he's one of John's good ol' boys.

[jaege]

You'd be hard pressed to find a HC in this league that DOES NOT hire his "pals".

 

I would almost guarantee that every single HC in this league has assistants working for him that they probably worked with in the past in some role.

 

That's not a Harbaugh problem. That's just the way of the NFL.

 

As much as fans like to bash Castillo, there's a couple things that fans have to understand...

 

1. The guy is universally respected by his peers in the industry that he works in. If the Ravens fired him today, he'd be coaching on another NFL team by next week.

2. He's been employed as an NFL coach in some form or fashion for basically 20 consecutive years now (longer than this franchise has even existed), and he's been coaching offensive lineman for the overwhelming majority of that time.

 

Whether fans like it or not, the NFL likes his coaching skills. And that's really all that matters.

 

 

Did you read my post? I am not bashing him. It strikes me that he is a (something that would be censured by the censure police) but he is effective and obviously competent at his job.

 

Although just because he could get another job tomorrow does mean he is all that great. The NFL seems to be very insular in their hiring practices. How many of these guys have been outright fired and then rehired by a number of different teams? You would think that a resume that includes multiple firings would not be conducive to finding a job. At least not in the "real" world.

 

Also, I have a real peeve about cronyism. I find it annoying. Just because it happens everywhere does not make it right.

[jaege]

 

 

Bill Parcells said it best. As an NFL head coach, you have to accept that your best friends will let you down you will have to make tough choices because of it. Castillo is still here because he's a great coach, not because he's one of John's good ol' boys.

 

 

Then why did they keep Cam so long? It certainly wasn't due to his great coaching skills, since even in the croynistic NFL world, no one wanted to hire him. Did he just not have any other friends?

[beasy2487]

Did you read my post? I am not bashing him. It strikes me that he is a (something that would be censured by the censure police) but he is effective and obviously competent at his job.

 

Although just because he could get another job tomorrow does mean he is all that great. The NFL seems to be very insular in their hiring practices. How many of these guys have been outright fired and then rehired by a number of different teams? You would think that a resume that includes multiple firings would not be conducive to finding a job. At least not in the "real" world.

 

Also, I have a real peeve about cronyism. I find it annoying. Just because it happens everywhere does not make it right.

 

I see your point, but I disagree that it's all cronyism. Nepotism comes into play a lot of times sure, but at the highest level of any industry things become much more about familiarity and trust than they are about skill. All of the people at those levels are pretty damn good at what they do or else they wouldn't even be on the short list, but when it comes to choosing this guy over that guy, if both are a philosophy fit, I go with the guy I know I can trust over the guy who might be a little more talented but is an unknown commodity every time because I'm more interested in mitigating the downside. Yes, I may end up in a situation like the Cam Cameron ordeal where I keep a guy who's not quite good enough for a little too long, but I definitely avoid situations like hiring Lane Kiffin, Dennis Allen, Greg Schiano, or Nick Saban which is MUCH more valuable to me. If I'm running the business, that's how I approach it as well.

[rmcjacket23]

Did you read my post? I am not bashing him. It strikes me that he is a (something that would be censured by the censure police) but he is effective and obviously competent at his job.

 

Although just because he could get another job tomorrow does mean he is all that great. The NFL seems to be very insular in their hiring practices. How many of these guys have been outright fired and then rehired by a number of different teams? You would think that a resume that includes multiple firings would not be conducive to finding a job. At least not in the "real" world.

 

Also, I have a real peeve about cronyism. I find it annoying. Just because it happens everywhere does not make it right.

Yes, but most of these guys don't get fired from a position and then get hired for that exact same position right away (unless you've already got a proven track record at that position).

 

When Steve Spagnuolo gets fired as a DC, he doesn't immediately get rehired as a DC somewhere in the NFL. He gets hired as a positional coach. Why? Because if you were good enough to be hired as a DC, then you're probably good enough to be hired as a secondary coach.

 

Happens every year in the NFL, as well it should. It happens all the time with coordinators who become HC, get fired, and then go back to being a coordinator.

 

The truth is... in the real world, a resume consisting of "multiple firings" wouldn't be that prohibitive at all... if the firings are from positions that are amongst the highest in the industry. If I was the CEO of three different companies, and I got fired from all of them, does that mean I should never be employed anywhere again? No, it means I just might not be a good CEO. But tons of companies would gladly hire me as some sort of an Executive... just not at the CEO level most likely.

[rmcjacket23]

Then why did they keep Cam so long? It certainly wasn't due to his great coaching skills, since even in the croynistic NFL world, no one wanted to hire him. Did he just not have any other friends?

Quite frankly, what was the reason to fire him?

 

The team was winning football games consistently, and the offensive was statistically improving on almost an annual basis.

 

In the NFL, teams that are generally consistently good for a long period of time don't typically voluntarily make radical coaching changes. Most of the time, the coaching changes (and the Ravens certainly fall into this group) come from coaches who are being elevated and considered for higher-up jobs (Ryan, Pagano, etc.).

 

To put it bluntly... at the time, it was really only fans who wanted him fired. I can't tell you how many articles were written by sportswriters and analysts who not only couldn't believe that he was fired, but also didn't understand why.

[beasy2487]

Then why did they keep Cam so long? It certainly wasn't due to his great coaching skills, since even in the croynistic NFL world, no one wanted to hire him. Did he just not have any other friends?

 

I think I addressed this in my follow up post regarding nepotism but I think you're overstating "nobody wanting to hire Cam." He committed to LSU before the NFL season was even over and Miles is even on record saying he texted him immediately after the news about firing broke in hopes of getting to him before other NFL teams did. How do you know "no one wanted him?" Where is that even coming from? I do not think it's unrealistic that Cam would still be in the league if he wanted to be. He's well respected as a guy that can develop young QBs, he just gets to a point where he's obsolete and needs to be replaced. For struggling franchises with solid RBs and young, strong armed QBs, he's the perfect OC. I could see him being successful with the Bucs, Jags, or Jets easily...even the Rams. There is much more to it than this "this guy sucks" or "this guy's good". They're all good at something, that's why they're on the list. The question is are they a fit for this situation. Cameron passed his expiration date, that doesn't mean we throw out all of the positive things he did as well.

[ravensdfan]

I was only half serious. I do believe he was hired, at least in part, because he was John's pal. As much as I love the guy, I really think that John has a habit of doing that. Begrudgingly I have to admit that the o-line is coming around and it cannot just be because of Kubiak. So Castillo must be doing something right.

 

Well by all accounts, even when we hated him last season, he is a great technique guy.

 

Whether it is him (still think we'd have been better last season if he was all that) or a combination of Kubiak, who likes & uses the ZBS and getting rid of guys who prefer man, personnel coming in without a predisposition to man, or all of the above, at least it is looking good so far.