Let's talk about Pernell McPhee

[rmcjacket23]

How exactly is guaranteed base salary in the first 2 years of a 5 year extension relevant? All it means is the team can't cut him for the first 2 years of the deal which they wouldn't do anyways because of the dead money after giving a large signing bonus. So it's irrelevant.

 

And wrong once again. Here's a list of Edge rushers over 30 who are still playing at a high level: 

 

Terrell Suggs

Trent Cole

Elvis Dumervil

John Abraham

Cam Wake

Julius Peppers

Dwight Freeney

Robert Mathis

Jared Allen

Tamba Hali

DeMarcus Ware

 

Here's a list of DTs still playing at a high level over 30:

 

Kyle Williams

Jay Ratliff

Justin Smith

Vince Wilfork

Jason Hatcher

Cory Redding

Ngata

 

Bolded players got large contracts going into their age 30 or older season.

 

The DTs make less money when they get older, and fewer of them get paid because they decline faster than edge rushers. It's a fact.

In Suggs case, it doesn't, but that's because his base salaries are relatively moderate. If you had a player who had large base salaries, then it matters greatly. As it were, Suggs is basically locked in for three years, because the cap savings in year 3 is only $100K.

[beasy2487]

This thread is funny. Here's some food for thought: If super heroes beget super villains..and this forum, being clearly the best official message board, has birthed a super troll...we should be proud. Bravo ladies and gentleman, bravo.

 

On topic, Pernell McPhee is a football player that plays well for the Ravens. I like that about him.

[arnie_uk]

No, that's now how bonuses work. The TEAM gets to spread the bonus money out, but the player gets ALL of it up front.

If Ngata signs an extension, and his signing bonus is $8M and his first year salary is $1M, that means in his first year, Ngata has $9M deposited into his bank account. The team gets to prorate the $8M, but the player doesn't.

For example... when Joe signed his monster deal, he signed a $29M signing bonus, and had a $1M base salary in 2013. In 2013, the amount of money deposited into Joe's bank account = $30M, or approximately 1/4 of his entire contract terms.

I know how a bonus works. But why sign a contract that has you earning an 8 mil bonus for 3 years work when you can work one year and still get said 8 mil. Then hit free agency and get more. Its a pay cut because you will earn less in total with an extension converting salary than you would if you hit free agency 9 times out of 10.

[Tank 92]

Yeah, he's declining. He has 1.5 sacks over the last 2 seasons. Sure, he's playing well but he isn't nearly the player he was when he got that contract.

Stating the obvious, he's been used much differently than at the start of his career and less sacks are a product of that change.

[rmcjacket23]

I know how a bonus works. But why sign a contract that has you earning an 8 mil bonus for 3 years work when you can work one year and still get said 8 mil. Then hit free agency and get more. Its a pay cut because you will earn less in total with an extension converting salary than you would if you hit free agency 9 times out of 10.

There are numerous people who have attempted to do just what you described, come down with an injury or performed poorly, and had to settle for one-year, highly incentive-laden contracts in FA.

[jazz1988]

Stating the obvious, he's been used much differently than at the start of his career and less sacks are a product of that change.

 

 We definitely used him differently last year because he had to play nose tackle due to Cody being unreliable and  Williams was a rookie at the time. Right now  it seems like we are using Ngata like we been using him since the start of his career and he is playing at a high level but just not getting the sacks. The season is far from over  so it's definitely possible for him to get some sacks.

 

.

[Tank 92]

 We definitely used him differently last year because he had to play nose tackle due to Cody being unreliable and  Williams was a rookie at the time. Right now  it seems like we are using Ngata like we been using him since the start of his career and he is playing at a high level but just not getting the sacks. The season is far from over  so eventually it's possible for Ngata to have five sacks this year .

 

 

Right, and I don't see sacks as an important stat for Haloti.  He consistently eats up two blockers opening things up for others, stuffs the run, provides cover for the LBs, blocks passing lanes, etc., etc., etc..  If he gets sacks fine, but the lack there of does not diminish the value of his contributions or his importance to the success of the D. The man is still a beast and his health and play are on the upswing again, not declining.

[Tank 92]

A healthy McPhee is an extremely valuable player. This is really the first time since 2011 that he is playing witout having to recover from off season surgeries. I guess time will tell if his knees hold up, but given his injury history,  I'm not sure how deep we go to resign him. If he keeps up the stellar play, there's sure to be a bidding war for his services. 

[arnie_uk]

There are numerous people who have attempted to do just what you described, come down with an injury or performed poorly, and had to settle for one-year, highly incentive-laden contracts in FA.

its still a paycut anyway you slice. Play one year for 8mil or get that as a bonus and sign a 3 yr contract.

[Static]

I don't think he gets that huge huge contract that would coincide with his current play because of injury history and he doesn't play the run very well.

[Dewy101]

I think if the Ravens offer him at somewhere between the $4-5M range he will stay, and I think that is a reasonable number for what he brings to the table.

He's going to get more than Paul Kruger did in the open market. I can promise you that. He's the 2nd best pass rushing 3-4 OLB in the league right now right behind Dumervil and Suggs coming in third.

[gabefergy]

Stating the obvious, he's been used much differently than at the start of his career and less sacks are a product of that change.

You literally just said you don't see him declining, and no he is not being used that much differently this season. He is mostly playing 3T in the defense. A position that does generate sacks if the player is capable.  

[gabefergy]

He's going to get more than Paul Kruger did in the open market. I can promise you that. He's the 2nd best pass rushing 3-4 OLB in the league right now right behind Dumervil and Suggs coming in third.

Please, when I said that 3 weeks ago, I think he had maybe 1 sack and was playing very well but also somewhat under the radar. If he keeps the pace he's on now, $4-5M will most likely not be enough money.

[rmcjacket23]

its still a paycut anyway you slice. Play one year for 8mil or get that as a bonus and sign a 3 yr contract.

Or, it might not be. The "anyway you slice it" argument doesn't hold up mathematically.

 

If he was scheduled to make $8.5M next season, and he signs an extension with a signing bonus + a first year salary that exceeds $8.5M (completely reasonable to think that would happen), then he hasn't taken a pay cut at all.

 

The amount deposited into his bank account during the 2015 season would be greater under the extension than it would had he taken no extension at all.

 

He's due $17M over the next two seasons, with $0 of it guaranteed. If he makes more than that in straight cash over the next two seasons in an extension (again, completely reasonable to think he will), then he hasn't taken a pay cut at all.

[arnie_uk]

Or, it might not be. The "anyway you slice it" argument doesn't hold up mathematically.

If he was scheduled to make $8.5M next season, and he signs an extension with a signing bonus + a first year salary that exceeds $8.5M (completely reasonable to think that would happen), then he hasn't taken a pay cut at all.

The amount deposited into his bank account during the 2015 season would be greater under the extension than it would had he taken no extension at all.

He's due $17M over the next two seasons, with $0 of it guaranteed. If he makes more than that in straight cash over the next two seasons in an extension (again, completely reasonable to think he will), then he hasn't taken a pay cut at all.

why sign him to an extension converting base salary into bonus then give him a base salary of that amount anyway. You'd just tack years on and not adjust next year which beats the point of lowering his cap number.

He won't get a first year salary anywhere near close to 8.5 if he is extended. If he is extended it will be to lower his cap number, not make it more by increasing his base sal from what its going to be. That's ridiculous to say it's reasonable

[Bltravens]

They need to find a way to sign him and soon.  He's the future 34 3 down OLB we need.  His body functions so much better in the 270 range than it does in the 285 that he was in his first couple of years.

[rmcjacket23]

why sign him to an extension converting base salary into bonus then give him a base salary of that amount anyway. You'd just tack years on and not adjust next year which beats the point of lowering his cap number.

He won't get a first year salary anywhere near close to 8.5 if he is extended. If he is extended it will be to lower his cap number, not make it more by increasing his base sal from what its going to be. That's ridiculous to say it's reasonable

That's not what I even remotely said. I said the combination of his signing bonus + his first year salary would be more than the $8.5M he would have made.

 

Lets look it hypothetically...

 

Scenario A: status quo. He plays the next two years of his contract out, Ngata receives $17M in actual cash, total cap hit over that period for the Ravens = $32M.

 

Scenario B: he signs an extension. Lets say its a four year, $30M extension, with a $10M signing bonus. First year salary is $1M, second year salary is $7.5M.

 

In Scenario B, Ngata would receive $18.5M in actual cash in the first two years. For the Ravens, his cap number would be $11M in year one ($2.5M signing bonus + $1M salary + $7.5M dead money from previous contract) and $10M in year two. That's a total of $21M over the two years.

 

So in scenario B, Ngata gets more cash in the two year period on an extension than he would have not taking the extension, and the Ravens take on $11M less in cap space.

[rmw10]

That's not what I even remotely said. I said the combination of his signing bonus + his first year salary would be more than the $8.5M he would have made.

 

Lets look it hypothetically...

 

Scenario A: status quo. He plays the next two years of his contract out, Ngata receives $17M in actual cash, total cap hit over that period for the Ravens = $32M.

 

 

He's actually only got 1 year left once this season ends.

[arnie_uk]

That's not what I even remotely said. I said the combination of his signing bonus + his first year salary would be more than the $8.5M he would have made.

Lets look it hypothetically...

Scenario A: status quo. He plays the next two years of his contract out, Ngata receives $17M in actual cash, total cap hit over that period for the Ravens = $32M.

Scenario B: he signs an extension. Lets say its a four year, $30M extension, with a $10M signing bonus. First year salary is $1M, second year salary is $7.5M.

In Scenario B, Ngata would receive $18.5M in actual cash in the first two years. For the Ravens, his cap number would be $11M in year one ($2.5M signing bonus + $1M salary + $7.5M dead money from previous contract) and $10M in year two. That's a total of $21M over the two years.

So in scenario B, Ngata gets more cash in the two year period on an extension than he would have not taking the extension, and the Ravens take on $11M less in cap space.

he only has one year left.

[Inqui]

he only has one year left. I don't think you have a clue what your even saying in any argument your currently involved in, in numerous threads.

Can't argue with Ozzie himself.

[rmcjacket23]

he only has one year left.

Changes absolutely nothing about the example I provided. You can bump it back a year, and it changes nothing. It means that if nothing happens, and he plays out his current deal, he gets paid $8.5M on a $16M cap hit.

If he signs the exact deal I just presented, he gets paid $11M on an $11M cap hit next season. According to you, that's a paycut.

That, by definition, is false. In order to take a paycut, he'd actually have to make less money.

[Tank 92]

You literally just said you don't see him declining, and no he is not being used that much differently this season. He is mostly playing 3T in the defense. A position that does generate sacks if the player is capable.  

 

 

Right. And if you notice he is often being rotated out in obvious passing situations when most sacks happen.

 

It seems we are just using different values to determine his level of play and value to the team. Won't try to change your mind.

[gabefergy]

Right. And if you notice he is often being rotated out in obvious passing situations when most sacks happen.

 

It seems we are just using different values to determine his level of play and value to the team. Won't try to change your mind.

He has 186 pass-rushing snaps so far this season, so he's not be rotated out that often.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

We may have waited too long. Its all about the dough for Oz....although I think we will be kicking ourselves if we let him go...Suggs cant last forever

[Ravens1991]

Could we cut Suggs for McPhee? Looking at how his deal is structured I don't think we would be able to take that cap hit but hopefully we could figure something out.

[codizzle]

Could we cut Suggs for McPhee? Looking at how his deal is structured I don't think we would be able to take that cap hit but hopefully we could figure something out.

No way we cut Suggs

He's playing his best football maybe ever outside of his DPOY year

[GrimCoconut]

Could we cut Suggs for McPhee? Looking at how his deal is structured I don't think we would be able to take that cap hit but hopefully we could figure something out.

Suggs won't go anywhere for a couple of years.

[gabefergy]

Could we cut Suggs for McPhee? Looking at how his deal is structured I don't think we would be able to take that cap hit but hopefully we could figure something out.

Ngata is the big money defensive player that might get cut. Suggs is still at least 2 years from getting cut.