Let's talk about Pernell McPhee

[gabefergy]

I definitely wouldn't. For starters, they don't even play the same position, and a 3 down run stopper is worth a heck of a lot more to this team than a situational pass rusher (which is what McPhee is).

Plus, its entirely possible that some of McPhee's dominance so far has a LOT to do with the defensive lineman playing with him.

A run stuffer is a lot easier to find then a guy who generates the kind of pressure McPhee does from the interior. Plus Ngata is nearing the end. McPhee is entering his prime. Its pretty obvious to me which player is more important. Ideally we keep both, but McPhee has wsy more value longterm.

[izvoodoo]

A run stuffer is a lot easier to find then a guy who generates the kind of pressure McPhee does from the interior. Plus Ngata is nearing the end. McPhee is entering his prime. Its pretty obvious to me which player is more important. Ideally we keep both, but McPhee has wsy more value longterm.

Neither have been particularly healthy.  

[gabefergy]

Neither have been particularly healthy.

Another reason to take the younger guy who isnt pushing 350.

[codizzle]

Another reason to take the younger guy who isnt pushing 350.

And when we have potential replacements for ngata on the roster already

[rmcjacket23]

A run stuffer is a lot easier to find then a guy who generates the kind of pressure McPhee does from the interior. Plus Ngata is nearing the end. McPhee is entering his prime. Its pretty obvious to me which player is more important. Ideally we keep both, but McPhee has wsy more value longterm.

And I would agree... if McPhee were an every-down or close to every-down player. But he's not... he's a 50% snap count guy, and even if he's re-signed, he's likely to be that way for at least another year or two, barring injury.

 

I mean realistically... is McPhee harder to find than Ngata? The answer is... not really. I mean we churn out guys a lot like McPhee about every 3-4 years on this defense, and many of them are nothing more than mid-round picks. Finding a Ngata, however, required a significantly larger investment, and guys like that don't come around very often. Ngata will probably fetch a higher price on the open market even now than McPhee.

 

Fully aware that Ngata is in the back end of his career, and that's why its important to extend him for a lower number. But right now, I see virtually no difference between a McPhee and a Kruger in my mind, and its entirely possible that if he's going to get big time money from another team, we will let him walk. We haven't seen what McPhee is as an every down player, or even if he can be one. Its a lot easier to get to the QB when its you're only job, and when you're resting every other play. When you get big time money, you don't get those luxuries, because that team now wants you to play a lot more and do a lot more.

 

This also negates the fact that, much like Kruger, McPhee spent the first three years of his career between the training room and the sidelines on gameday. I think I'd rather have a run-stopper to be honest.

[Tank 92]

Another reason to take the younger guy who isnt pushing 350.

Haloti is in better health and shape this year than he has been in a long time. And it would seem that having the ability to have a rotation will only lengthen his carrer. He's not going anywhere and will retire a Raven. Such an under appreciated link in the chain.

[rmcjacket23]

And when we have potential replacements for ngata on the roster already

No, we really don't. We've got a bunch of fan-favorites, and thats about it. We've got a bunch of mid-late round picks that fans like, some of which have been injured their entire career, and many will never amount to anything.

 

Realistically, if Ngata is let go, we will have Brandon Williams and Jernigan. That's it. If Ngata is allowed to walk, defensive line will be a HUGE priority early in the draft or in FA.

[ravensfan160]

I really hope we can resign him in the offseason although I bet someone will overpay (Colts probably). Who knows how good John Simon will be but he was the last young OLB with upside on this team. With Suggs and Doom being up there in age we need at least one young pass rusher we can count on.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

I gotta agree with rmcjacket on this one.Ngata is alot more valuable to this team than McPhee.Ngata is a proven vet and losing him would be a HUGE blow to our defense.He is one of if not the biggest reason Daryl Smith had the year he had last year and Mosley is having the ear he's having this year.I like what McPhee is doing but I don't trust it at all.There's a ton of questions I have concerning Pernell.Like where has this McPhee been the past 4 years?How long can he keep up this level of production?How long can he stay healthy?Is his impending new contract the only reason he's back to his rookie season form?Will he perform this way after he gets his money?Is he really that good or is the talent around him creating opportunities for him?Is paying him worth losing the amount of talent we'll lose once his cap number becomes a burden?The only concern I have with Ngata is his age.Also,as much as I love Williams,he's no Ngata clone.We really don't have a replacement for him on this roster.If it comes down to releasing Ngata to keep McPhee,I would rather we keep Ngata and see what Jernigan and the 2015 draft can give us.

[gabefergy]

And I would agree... if McPhee were an every-down or close to every-down player. But he's not... he's a 50% snap count guy, and even if he's re-signed, he's likely to be that way for at least another year or two, barring injury.

 

I mean realistically... is McPhee harder to find than Ngata? The answer is... not really. I mean we churn out guys a lot like McPhee about every 3-4 years on this defense, and many of them are nothing more than mid-round picks. Finding a Ngata, however, required a significantly larger investment, and guys like that don't come around very often. Ngata will probably fetch a higher price on the open market even now than McPhee.

 

Fully aware that Ngata is in the back end of his career, and that's why its important to extend him for a lower number. But right now, I see virtually no difference between a McPhee and a Kruger in my mind, and its entirely possible that if he's going to get big time money from another team, we will let him walk. We haven't seen what McPhee is as an every down player, or even if he can be one. Its a lot easier to get to the QB when its you're only job, and when you're resting every other play. When you get big time money, you don't get those luxuries, because that team now wants you to play a lot more and do a lot more.

 

This also negates the fact that, much like Kruger, McPhee spent the first three years of his career between the training room and the sidelines on gameday. I think I'd rather have a run-stopper to be honest.

This is a really, really stupid argument. Ngata plays about 10 more snaps a game than McPhee and that will likely go down as he gets older. 

 

The value of what McPhee does in 50% of the total snaps is extremely high. The Ravens have not had a player like him since Trevor Pryce and he is one of the main reasons why our defense has been so good this season. 

 

You are 100% wrong about which player is harder to find. Interior pass-rush is KING in the NFL, and there are not that many players that are good at it. In fact, I would say McPhee is in the top 5 in the NFL in his pass-rush productivity this season. That's better than guys like Suh, Dareus, Atkins, etc..

 

If you are talking about Ngata from 5-6 years ago, then sure I would agree with you. The problem is he isn't the same player anymore. He isn't making splash plays like he used to, not anywhere close. He is stout against the run and pushes the pocket well at times, but he is maybe the 6th or 7th most important player on the defense right now and his replacement is already on the roster in Timmy Jernigan.

 

If you would rather have the non-special run-stopper than you know nothing about football.

[Moderator 3]

I gotta agree with rmcjacket on this one.Ngata is alot more valuable to this team than McPhee.Ngata is a proven vet and losing him would be a HUGE blow to our defense.He is one of if not the biggest reason Daryl Smith had the year he had last year and Mosley is having the ear he's having this year.I like what McPhee is doing but I don't trust it at all.There's a ton of questions I have concerning Pernell.Like where has this McPhee been the past 4 years?How long can he keep up this level of production?How long can he stay healthy?Is his impending new contract the only reason he's back to his rookie season form?Will he perform this way after he gets his money?Is he really that good or is the talent around him creating opportunities for him?Is paying him worth losing the amount of talent we'll lose once his cap number becomes a burden?The only concern I have with Ngata is his age.Also,as much as I love Williams,he's no Ngata clone.We really don't have a replacement for him on this roster.If it comes down to releasing Ngata to keep McPhee,I would rather we keep Ngata and see what Jernigan and the 2015 draft can give us.

NTM Ngata can long snap in a pinch.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

This is a really, really stupid argument. Ngata plays about 10 more snaps a game than McPhee and that will likely go down as he gets older. 

 

The value of what McPhee does in 50% of the total snaps is extremely high. The Ravens have not had a player like him since Trevor Pryce and he is one of the main reasons why our defense has been so good this season. 

 

You are 100% wrong about which player is harder to find. Interior pass-rush is KING in the NFL, and there are not that many players that are good at it. In fact, I would say McPhee is in the top 5 in the NFL in his pass-rush productivity this season. That's better than guys like Suh, Dareus, Atkins, etc..

 

If you are talking about Ngata from 5-6 years ago, then sure I would agree with you. The problem is he isn't the same player anymore. He isn't making splash plays like he used to, not anywhere close. He is stout against the run and pushes the pocket well at times, but he is maybe the 6th or 7th most important player on the defense right now and his replacement is already on the roster in Timmy Jernigan.

 

If you would rather have the non-special run-stopper than you know nothing about football.

 

 

Ngata's not making splash plays because he's too busy freeing up everyone else to make them.He's not in the same role he was in 3 or 4 years ago.Matter of fact,he is making splash plays.He leads our team in int's lol.He has 6 passes defensed so far this year.

[gabefergy]

I gotta agree with rmcjacket on this one.Ngata is alot more valuable to this team than McPhee.Ngata is a proven vet and losing him would be a HUGE blow to our defense.He is one of if not the biggest reason Daryl Smith had the year he had last year and Mosley is having the ear he's having this year.I like what McPhee is doing but I don't trust it at all.There's a ton of questions I have concerning Pernell.Like where has this McPhee been the past 4 years?How long can he keep up this level of production?How long can he stay healthy?Is his impending new contract the only reason he's back to his rookie season form?Will he perform this way after he gets his money?Is he really that good or is the talent around him creating opportunities for him?Is paying him worth losing the amount of talent we'll lose once his cap number becomes a burden?The only concern I have with Ngata is his age,Also,as much as I love Williams,he's no Ngata clone.We really don't have a replacement for him on this roster.If it comes down to releasing Ngata to keep McPhee,I would rather we keep Ngata and see what Jernigan and the 2015 draft can give us.

See above post. And I'll ask you this: Where has Ngata been the last 4 years? He may be getting snaps, but he isn't playing at an elite level anymore. He's going to be 31 years old and has a 16 MILLION dollar cap hit next year. Simply put, he is a declining player. Ideally you give him the same extension Suggs got and have him retire a Raven, but he can't make $16M against the cap next year if the Ravens are going to be a competitive football team.

 

Here's a little tidbit I bet you did not know. Over the past 4 years McPhee has 13.5 sacks. Ngata has 11.5 sacks. 

 

Do you remember Pernell's rookie year? He was absolutely fantastic playing the same role he is doing now. The past 2 years, the Ravens have moved him around a little bit and he lost some snaps because of the depth at OLB, but he is now back to playing the role where he is dominant. 

[gabefergy]

Ngata's not making splash plays because he's too busy freeing up everyone else to make them.He's not in the same role he was in 3 or 4 years ago.Matter of fact,he is making splash plays.He leads our team in int's lol.He has 6 passes defensed so far this year.

And he has 0 sacks. Ints are basically being in the right place at the right time, although the first one was awesome. The PDs are great too, but he isn't the player he used to be. And don't give me the "he's freeing up other players to make plays". It's simply not true. If anything Brandon Williams is the guy freeing up players to make plays along the DL.

[rmcjacket23]

This is a really, really stupid argument. Ngata plays about 10 more snaps a game than McPhee and that will likely go down as he gets older. 

 

The value of what McPhee does in 50% of the total snaps is extremely high. The Ravens have not had a player like him since Trevor Pryce and he is one of the main reasons why our defense has been so good this season. 

 

You are 100% wrong about which player is harder to find. Interior pass-rush is KING in the NFL, and there are not that many players that are good at it. In fact, I would say McPhee is in the top 5 in the NFL in his pass-rush productivity this season. That's better than guys like Suh, Dareus, Atkins, etc..

 

If you are talking about Ngata from 5-6 years ago, then sure I would agree with you. The problem is he isn't the same player anymore. He isn't making splash plays like he used to, not anywhere close. He is stout against the run and pushes the pocket well at times, but he is maybe the 6th or 7th most important player on the defense right now and his replacement is already on the roster in Timmy Jernigan.

 

If you would rather have the non-special run-stopper than you know nothing about football.

But that's the whole point... if he see's more snaps, which he probably would IF we re-signed him, it very well might not be as an interior rusher. He could very well end up as an outside rusher, or a three down defensive end, which means he's simply not going to be an interior rusher all the time. The reason McPhee is effective as an interior rusher is because the Ravens use him as such on a pass-rushing down, because they have the luxury of doing that as a situational player. When you get a large pay day, you're NOT a situational player. You better be able to put your hand in the dirt, line up over center, guard, or even tackle, and not only rush the QB but also stop the run, because that's the responsibility inherited with the salary you get. Nobody is going to give this guy $5-6M a year to be a 50% interior pass rusher. The expectations go up.

 

You made my point for me... you can replace the CURRENT Ngata for somebody else, but that's not what this team is even remotely looking for. They are looking for the next dominant one. Timmy Jernigan might be that guy, but then again, he might not. Wouldn't be the first fan-favorite defensive lineman who turned out to be a disappointment. I doubt we are ready to just hand over the keys to a young guy like him, all while letting both Ngata and Canty walk and be set with Jernigan, Williams, and whoever in the world wins an 8 man competition for the other end spot. To me, that's not a defensive line that strikes fear into anybody.

 

Like it or not, other teams in the league still respect Ngata's abilities, and frankly, its guys like him that make interior pass rushing that much easier. He's certainly not worth his current cap number, but he won't be playing 2015 under that cap number to begin with, and I doubt the franchise is going to let him walk in FA with the simple goal of retaining McPhee.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

See above post. And I'll ask you this: Where has Ngata been the last 4 years? He may be getting snaps, but he isn't playing at an elite level anymore. He's going to be 31 years old and has a 16 MILLION dollar cap hit next year. Simply put, he is a declining player. Ideally you give him the same extension Suggs got and have him retire a Raven, but he can't make $16M against the cap next year if the Ravens are going to be a competitive football team.

 

Here's a little tidbit I bet you did not know. Over the past 4 years McPhee has 13.5 sacks. Ngata has 11.5 sacks. 

 

Do you remember Pernell's rookie year? He was absolutely fantastic playing the same role he is doing now. The past 2 years, the Ravens have moved him around a little bit and he lost some snaps because of the depth at OLB, but he is now back to playing the role where he is dominant. 

 

 

Ngata was playing nose tackle/defensive tackle the past few years.The fact that he got that many sacks is a plus.The only reason he went through a stretch where he was getting 5 sacks a year was because he was used more as a defensive end in those years.What Ngata does for us now won't show up on a stat sheet.

[gabefergy]

Ngata was playing nose tackle/defensive tackle the past few years.The fact that he got that many sacks is a plus.The only reason he went through a stretch where he was getting 5 sacks a year was because he was used more as a defensive end in those years.What Ngata does for us now won't show up on a stat sheet.

 

Well it could show up on the stat sheet if he was better at it. Marcel Dareus plays NT for the Bills and he has 7 sacks on the year. Ngata is playinig a DE/DT hybrid this season, but he is barely registering any pressure on opposing QBs. He does a fine job vs the run, but that's not something you pay a guy 16 Million dollars to do. I'm not sure why that's such a hard concept to grasp.

[gabefergy]

But that's the whole point... if he see's more snaps, which he probably would IF we re-signed him, it very well might not be as an interior rusher. He could very well end up as an outside rusher, or a three down defensive end, which means he's simply not going to be an interior rusher all the time. The reason McPhee is effective as an interior rusher is because the Ravens use him as such on a pass-rushing down, because they have the luxury of doing that as a situational player. When you get a large pay day, you're NOT a situational player. You better be able to put your hand in the dirt, line up over center, guard, or even tackle, and not only rush the QB but also stop the run, because that's the responsibility inherited with the salary you get. Nobody is going to give this guy $5-6M a year to be a 50% interior pass rusher. The expectations go up.

 

You made my point for me... you can replace the CURRENT Ngata for somebody else, but that's not what this team is even remotely looking for. They are looking for the next dominant one. Timmy Jernigan might be that guy, but then again, he might not. Wouldn't be the first fan-favorite defensive lineman who turned out to be a disappointment. I doubt we are ready to just hand over the keys to a young guy like him, all while letting both Ngata and Canty walk and be set with Jernigan, Williams, and whoever in the world wins an 8 man competition for the other end spot. To me, that's not a defensive line that strikes fear into anybody.

 

Like it or not, other teams in the league still respect Ngata's abilities, and frankly, its guys like him that make interior pass rushing that much easier. He's certainly not worth his current cap number, but he won't be playing 2015 under that cap number to begin with, and I doubt the franchise is going to let him walk in FA with the simple goal of retaining McPhee.

There is probably some truth to the fact that he is so good at what he does, because it's his main role on the defense, but you are acting like he only plays a handful of snaps. He logs over 50% of the defensive snaps and does play more than just the passing downs. He's solid all around and if he gets more snaps it will be a good thing for the defense. Dumervil got $5-6M to be a situational pass-rusher, so I see no reason why McPhee can't get that. Being a good situational pass-rusher is very important in today's NFL when teams are in sub packages 60% of the snaps.

 

What is this team looking for then? Players like Ngata in his prime don't just fall off trees. Instead you realize that the NFL has evolved into a passing league and players like McPhee that you have developed for 4 years are incredibly important. He isn't Ngata, but he can do a lot of the really important things that the defense needs.

 

I don't know how the Ravens FO will handle Ngata in the offseason, but I do know he isn't going to be making 16 million dollars on the salary cap. Ngata has to be willing to take a pay cut, and if he doesn't he will be a FA. 

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

Well it could show up on the stat sheet if he was better at it. Marcel Dareus plays NT for the Bills and he has 7 sacks on the year. Ngata is playinig a DE/DT hybrid this season, but he is barely registering any pressure on opposing QBs. He does a fine job vs the run, but that's not something you pay a guy 16 Million dollars to do. I'm not sure why that's such a hard concept to grasp.

 

 

Ngata won't sniff that $16M number after this year so his cap number won't be a problem.And I'm not comparing his worth to Dareus',I'm comparing his worth to McPhee's worth.Ngata at about the $7-10M range he'll be forced to take next off season is way better than McPhee at the $5-6M(maybe more if he keeps getting sacks the way he has the last few games).That's all I'm trying to say.Believe me,I know Ngata is no longer the best D lineman in football,but he's far more valuable to this team than McPhee is.

[gabefergy]

Ngata won't sniff that $16M number after this year so his cap number won't be a problem.And I'm not comparing his worth to Dareus',I'm comparing his worth to McPhee's worth.Ngata at about the $7-10M range he'll be forced to take next off season is way better than McPhee at the $5-6M(maybe more if he keeps getting sacks the way he has the last few games).That's all I'm trying to say.Believe me,I know Ngata is no longer the best D lineman in football,but he's far more valuable to this team than McPhee is.

I still disagree about the last part, but we'll see what the Ravens do in the offseason. 

[rmcjacket23]

There is probably some truth to the fact that he is so good at what he does, because it's his main role on the defense, but you are acting like he only plays a handful of snaps. He logs over 50% of the defensive snaps and does play more than just the passing downs. He's solid all around and if he gets more snaps it will be a good thing for the defense. Dumervil got $5-6M to be a situational pass-rusher, so I see no reason why McPhee can't get that. Being a good situational pass-rusher is very important in today's NFL when teams are in sub packages 60% of the snaps.

 

What is this team looking for then? Players like Ngata in his prime don't just fall off trees. Instead you realize that the NFL has evolved into a passing league and players like McPhee that you have developed for 4 years are incredibly important. He isn't Ngata, but he can do a lot of the really important things that the defense needs.

 

I don't know how the Ravens FO will handle Ngata in the offseason, but I do know he isn't going to be making 16 million dollars on the salary cap. Ngata has to be willing to take a pay cut, and if he doesn't he will be a FA. 

1. Dumervil also averaged over 10 sacks a season over a six year period. McPhee had less than 10 coming into this season, and will be lucky to get 20 total in his first four seasons. Basically, he has half the resume at best.

2. Coming into this week, McPhee was at 48% of defensive snaps, and yes, they were primarily on passing downs. He's generally not in the game on 1st down. He basically plays the exact same number of snaps as Courtney Upshaw.

3. He probably won't have to take a "pay cut" per say... he will either sign an extension to retire as a Raven, or he will get released. His extension will be for less money than what his prior contract was (for obvious reasons), and so I guess technically that would fall under a "pay cut", but he can still easily command $7-8M average annually more than likely.

 

I would put it this simple... if both McPhee and Ngata were to both hit FA at the same time, Ngata's average salary per year would exceed McPhee's in my opinion. McPhee may get a little more guaranteed money and a little longer deal, due primarily to age. But make no mistake... regardless of whether Ngata is here or not, if a team wants to offer McPhee Paul Kruger-like money (5 year, 40.5M, $20M guaranteed), I'd be absolutely shocked if the Ravens matched that or came that close to matching it.

[gabefergy]

1. Dumervil also averaged over 10 sacks a season over a six year period. McPhee had less than 10 coming into this season, and will be lucky to get 20 total in his first four seasons. Basically, he has half the resume at best.

2. Coming into this week, McPhee was at 48% of defensive snaps, and yes, they were primarily on passing downs. He's generally not in the game on 1st down. He basically plays the exact same number of snaps as Courtney Upshaw.

3. He probably won't have to take a "pay cut" per say... he will either sign an extension to retire as a Raven, or he will get released. His extension will be for less money than what his prior contract was (for obvious reasons), and so I guess technically that would fall under a "pay cut", but he can still easily command $7-8M average annually more than likely.

 

I would put it this simple... if both McPhee and Ngata were to both hit FA at the same time, Ngata's average salary per year would exceed McPhee's in my opinion. McPhee may get a little more guaranteed money and a little longer deal, due primarily to age. But make no mistake... regardless of whether Ngata is here or not, if a team wants to offer McPhee Paul Kruger-like money (5 year, 40.5M, $20M guaranteed), I'd be absolutely shocked if the Ravens matched that or came that close to matching it.

1. McPhee plays a different role than Dumervil, where sacks are harder to come by. Also McPhee is younger and has far less mileage.

2. After this week McPhee is playing 51% of the total snaps, so like I said over 50%. That includes 53 snaps against the run, so he is out there a number of snaps per game as more than just a pass-rush specialist. He has taken a few more snaps than Upshaw and few less than Dumervil, but he is clearly playing a major role in the defense.

3. It's a paycut because his per year salary starting next season will have to decrease fairly dramatically. If he doesn't take a pay reduction he won't be a Raven.

 

If McPhee makes it to the open market and is offered a Kruger type deal, it's doubtful that the Ravens will be able to retain him. However you are the one who just stated "nobody is going to give a situational pass-rusher $5-6M per year." So which is it?

[rmcjacket23]

1. McPhee plays a different role than Dumervil, where sacks are harder to come by. Also McPhee is younger and has far less mileage.

2. After this week McPhee is playing 51% of the total snaps, so like I said over 50%. That includes 53 snaps against the run, so he is out there a number of snaps per game as more than just a pass-rush specialist. He has taken a few more snaps than Upshaw and few less than Dumervil, but he is clearly playing a major role in the defense.

3. It's a paycut because his per year salary starting next season will have to decrease fairly dramatically. If he doesn't take a pay reduction he won't be a Raven.

 

If McPhee makes it to the open market and is offered a Kruger type deal, it's doubtful that the Ravens will be able to retain him. However you are the one who just stated "nobody is going to give a situational pass-rusher $5-6M per year." So which is it?

If he's offered Kruger type money, he won't be a situational pass rusher... he will be an every down rusher. Nobody is going to pay McPhee $5-6M a year to play 50% of the snaps and rush the passer only.

 

So the answer is both.

 

As far as Ngata, his salary this season is $8.5M. He probably will end up with a salary somewhere in that ballpark, possibly a little less. The reason his cap is so high is because he got $35M in bonus money that is spread out. Heck, if the Ravens could offer him a 3-4 year deal worth $24-32M, with little or no guaranteed money, the franchise would do that in a heartbeat.

[gabefergy]

If he's offered Kruger type money, he won't be a situational pass rusher... he will be an every down rusher. Nobody is going to pay McPhee $5-6M a year to play 50% of the snaps and rush the passer only.

 

So the answer is both.

 

As far as Ngata, his salary this season is $8.5M. He probably will end up with a salary somewhere in that ballpark, possibly a little less. The reason his cap is so high is because he got $35M in bonus money that is spread out. Heck, if the Ravens could offer him a 3-4 year deal worth $24-32M, with little or no guaranteed money, the franchise would do that in a heartbeat.

Hopefully he doesn't make it to the open market, so it will be a moot point.

 

You don't have to explain to me how the cap works. He is $16M against the cap next year and he will have a base salary of $8.5M. He won't get that money, at least not in his base salary. If he gets a Suggs extension that money will be converted to signing bonus and he'll get a minimal base salary next season and his number will be significantly reduced. He has to agree to an extension and pay reduction though, and it's possible he doesn't want to do that.

[rmcjacket23]

Hopefully he doesn't make it to the open market, so it will be a moot point.

 

You don't have to explain to me how the cap works. He is $16M against the cap next year and he will have a base salary of $8.5M. He won't get that money, at least not in his base salary. If he gets a Suggs extension that money will be converted to signing bonus and he'll get a minimal base salary next season and his number will be significantly reduced. He has to agree to an extension and pay reduction though, and it's possible he doesn't want to do that.

Correct, but the point is... if you can give him something like maybe $20M guaranteed over the next 3 seasons, he would likely take it. I don't think he's the kind of player who is going to go bouncing around the league looking for one last payday before he retires. He could take a deal equal or similar to Suggs and be just fine, and that's probably about what he would get on the open market anyway.

 

Its really not like he has an option to not agree to a "pay cut", because he's going to take a "paycut" regardless of whether he's with the Ravens or not, because no team in the league is going to give him a $61M contract and $31M guaranteed for 6 years.

 

A pay cut sort of implies that he will just play next season for less and nothing else changes. He probably wouldn't even play for less, because his bonus money + salary would probably exceed what he was going to make this season anyway. But he will take a "paycut" if he can get some more guaranteed money and a contract extension.

[The Raven]

And I would agree... if McPhee were an every-down or close to every-down player. But he's not... he's a 50% snap count guy, and even if he's re-signed, he's likely to be that way for at least another year or two, barring injury.

 

I mean realistically... is McPhee harder to find than Ngata? The answer is... not really. I mean we churn out guys a lot like McPhee about every 3-4 years on this defense, and many of them are nothing more than mid-round picks. Finding a Ngata, however, required a significantly larger investment, and guys like that don't come around very often. Ngata will probably fetch a higher price on the open market even now than McPhee.

 

Fully aware that Ngata is in the back end of his career, and that's why its important to extend him for a lower number. But right now, I see virtually no difference between a McPhee and a Kruger in my mind, and its entirely possible that if he's going to get big time money from another team, we will let him walk. We haven't seen what McPhee is as an every down player, or even if he can be one. Its a lot easier to get to the QB when its you're only job, and when you're resting every other play. When you get big time money, you don't get those luxuries, because that team now wants you to play a lot more and do a lot more.

 

This also negates the fact that, much like Kruger, McPhee spent the first three years of his career between the training room and the sidelines on gameday. I think I'd rather have a run-stopper to be honest.

 

I take it you haven't noticed this new passing trend hitting the NFL?

[The Raven]

Ngata was playing nose tackle/defensive tackle the past few years.The fact that he got that many sacks is a plus.The only reason he went through a stretch where he was getting 5 sacks a year was because he was used more as a defensive end in those years.What Ngata does for us now won't show up on a stat sheet.

 

 

Well it could show up on the stat sheet if he was better at it. Marcel Dareus plays NT for the Bills and he has 7 sacks on the year. Ngata is playinig a DE/DT hybrid this season, but he is barely registering any pressure on opposing QBs. He does a fine job vs the run, but that's not something you pay a guy 16 Million dollars to do. I'm not sure why that's such a hard concept to grasp.

 

Can I just say that calling a 3-4 DE a DE is sort of a misnomer? In no way does playing 3-4 DE make you get sacks any easier than playing DT.

 

3-4 DE is pretty much just DT.

[rmcjacket23]

I take it you haven't noticed this new passing trend hitting the NFL?

Well, technically, the new emerging trend in the league is going the opposite direction towards running the football...

 

The passing trend is now a staple, not a trend. The new trend is more up-tempo, more plays being run, with a higher emphasis on the run game.

 

What I think you will actually see at some point soon, however, is a de-emphasis on pass rushing ability, as more teams go no-huddle and begin to rely on more short passing and getting the ball out quickly. The majority of the most efficient offenses in terms of throwing the ball are the one's who get the ball out quickly and don't stand in the pocket or take 7 step dropbacks.

[gabefergy]

Well, technically, the new emerging trend in the league is going the opposite direction towards running the football...

The passing trend is now a staple, not a trend. The new trend is more up-tempo, more plays being run, with a higher emphasis on the run game.

What I think you will actually see at some point soon, however, is a de-emphasis on pass rushing ability, as more teams go no-huddle and begin to rely on more short passing and getting the ball out quickly. The majority of the most efficient offenses in terms of throwing the ball are the one's who get the ball out quickly and don't stand in the pocket or take 7 step dropbacks.

So good pass rushers are becoming even more important. Got it.

[gabefergy]

Correct, but the point is... if you can give him something like maybe $20M guaranteed over the next 3 seasons, he would likely take it. I don't think he's the kind of player who is going to go bouncing around the league looking for one last payday before he retires. He could take a deal equal or similar to Suggs and be just fine, and that's probably about what he would get on the open market anyway.

Its really not like he has an option to not agree to a "pay cut", because he's going to take a "paycut" regardless of whether he's with the Ravens or not, because no team in the league is going to give him a $61M contract and $31M guaranteed for 6 years.

A pay cut sort of implies that he will just play next season for less and nothing else changes. He probably wouldn't even play for less, because his bonus money + salary would probably exceed what he was going to make this season anyway. But he will take a "paycut" if he can get some more guaranteed money and a contract extension.

His base salary will be dramatically reduced. The total money he makes might not depending on the size of the potential signing bonus, but its still a reduction. He doesnt have to agree to an extension though, and frankly I wouldnt be surprised if he just retires as he had hinted at in the past.