Next up: Indianapolis

[codizzle]

Honestly our secondary doesn't need to improve a whole lot.. Just need to stop the total breakdowns that happen once or twice a game that lead to big plays..

AJ green TD week one

Kelvin TD Sunday

Etc.

.. Do that and not only would we be 4-0.. Our defense ranking would look a lot better

Our run defense is good enough and our pass rush should get hot soon and if our secondary cleans up big mistakes that's a good enough combination for a top 12 D which is more than enough with a very solid offense

[rmcjacket23]

How is it relevant? I'm talking about not forcing our offense to drop a 40 or 50 burger to win plus hope they have the ball last to keep the other team off the field. Even if we win, if it is a scenario such as that - then Pees scheme is a big fail because that situation isn't going to go in your favor all the time.

 

So I mean, what are you talking about exactly if it is successful versus Ryan? We haven't been sucessful limiting a QB yet. 93.4 QB rating. Not very sucessful.

Not the point. We could get torched by Luck in Indy, and hold Matt Ryan to Cam Newton like numbers at home. If that happened, what conclusion would anybody be able to draw?

 

I'm not even going to put that much credence into whether we do well against Luck anyway, because I prefer to take things as an entire body of work. We could do very well against him, and it won't somehow indicate that the secondary is "back" and that they are now some sort of unstoppable force. Against Cincinnati and Pittsburgh, the secondary was pretty solid. Against Cleveland and for parts of the Carolina game, it was quite bad. That's called getting a body of work. I'm not going to say that this secondary is awful because Andrew Luck beats us, nor will I say its great because he doesn't. There isn't a single game or team we could play this season that would define our team 100%. Pittsburgh's got a pretty good passing game, and we did very well against them. Cleveland does not, and we were incredibly awful. I don't know which conclusion I'm supposed to draw from that, outside of possibly being inconsistent.

 

If we are inconsistent, then I can't draw any certain conclusions based on one game to begin with, regardless of whether its a good game or a bad game.

[Static]

Not sure if dumb or in denial.

 

 

[BmoreBird22]

How is it relevant? I'm talking about not forcing our offense to drop a 40 or 50 burger to win plus hope they have the ball last to keep the other team off the field. Even if we win, if it is a scenario such as that - then Pees scheme is a big fail because that situation isn't going to go in your favor all the time.

 

So I mean, what are you talking about exactly if it is successful versus Ryan? We haven't been sucessful limiting a QB yet. 93.4 QB rating. Not very sucessful.

Successful enough to only allow three passing touchdowns, second best mark in the NFL, only behind Cincy who had a bye week

[rmcjacket23]

Not sure if dumb or in denial.

 

 

We got a long, long way to go before we should even start discussing SB contender...

[Static]

We got a long, long way to go before we should even start discussing SB contender...

 

If the playoffs were tomorrow were the 5th seed. So logic says , at this point , yes.

[rmcjacket23]

If the playoffs were tomorrow were the 5th seed. So logic says , at this point , yes.

That makes us a playoff contender, not a SB contender. There is a difference.

[DomMcRaven]

I agree. I hope we can pay Atlanta back. the last time we played them Roddy White pushed down Josh Wilson to score the game winning touchdown. I want Joe to beat Ryan.

Seriously! If the Vikings could handle them, we should too. And I emphasize the word "should."

[ravensdfan]

Not the point. We could get torched by Luck in Indy, and hold Matt Ryan to Cam Newton like numbers at home. If that happened, what conclusion would anybody be able to draw?

 

I'm not even going to put that much credence into whether we do well against Luck anyway, because I prefer to take things as an entire body of work. We could do very well against him, and it won't somehow indicate that the secondary is "back" and that they are now some sort of unstoppable force. Against Cincinnati and Pittsburgh, the secondary was pretty solid. Against Cleveland and for parts of the Carolina game, it was quite bad. That's called getting a body of work. I'm not going to say that this secondary is awful because Andrew Luck beats us, nor will I say its great because he doesn't. There isn't a single game or team we could play this season that would define our team 100%. Pittsburgh's got a pretty good passing game, and we did very well against them. Cleveland does not, and we were incredibly awful. I don't know which conclusion I'm supposed to draw from that, outside of possibly being inconsistent.

 

If we are inconsistent, then I can't draw any certain conclusions based on one game to begin with, regardless of whether its a good game or a bad game.

 

Inconsistent says a lot. An OC got fired over inconsistency. And I think we've seen that it was his game planning or "scheme" that was the issue. Caldwell added some things of his own but basically still ran Cam's scheme. It failed.

[ravensdfan]

Honestly our secondary doesn't need to improve a whole lot.. Just need to stop the total breakdowns that happen once or twice a game that lead to big plays..

AJ green TD week one

Kelvin TD Sunday

Etc.

.. Do that and not only would we be 4-0.. Our defense ranking would look a lot better

Our run defense is good enough and our pass rush should get hot soon and if our secondary cleans up big mistakes that's a good enough combination for a top 12 D which is more than enough with a very solid offense

 

I understand what you're saying here (though it was slightly amusing as the if/this comments added up ) but, we can't continually give the defense all the high draft picks and then say well, slightly better than average is alright. At some point, the man in charge has to be held accountable for what is a failure.

[The Raven]

I'm sorry, it was actually Bisciotti

 

"A source told The Baltimore Sun that players told coach John Harbaugh during the season that they were unhappy with the new blocking scheme instituted by Castillo. After the season, owner Steve Bisciotti acknowledged Castillo "did come on too strong and ruffled some feathers."

 

source: http://espn.go.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/12104/castillo-confident-ravens-can-run-the-ball

 

Yeah, it's interesting that the OL is doing so well now... The scheme is mostly the same too with slight differences to footwork.

 

OL coach is responsible for technique. Last year, we didn't have good technique up front. This year, we do. I think Castillo's doing a fine job.

[rmcjacket23]

Inconsistent says a lot. An OC got fired over inconsistency. And I think we've seen that it was his game planning or "scheme" that was the issue. Caldwell added some things of his own but basically still ran Cam's scheme. It failed.

Sure, except Pees inconsistency is basically limited to 2014 at this point, and it took Cam about five years of inconsistency to be fired.

 

There was nothing inconsistent about our previous Pees defensives. They were good at what they were good at, and they were bad at what they were bad it.

[pitchblack_20]

I'm starting to agree with the team on Webb. As much as I want him to come in and save the day, I don't want him on the field if he's going to be a liability.

[rmcjacket23]

I understand what you're saying here (though it was slightly amusing as the if/this comments added up ) but, we can't continually give the defense all the high draft picks and then say well, slightly better than average is alright. At some point, the man in charge has to be held accountable for what is a failure.

And there's the rub...

 

There's nothing easier for a fan to do than scream about accountability, because fans are not accountable for anything. The reality is... fans have little or no perception about accountability, because in many cases, they got the accountability aspect completely wrong a lot of the time.

 

The draft pick concept is irrelevant, because then you're just lumping in the linebackers and the defensive line with the secondary at this point, and the secondary is the only unit anybody is concerned about. As it were... they've had essentially two "high" draft picks, in Elam and Jimmy. One is playing well, and one isn't. Smith was also basically terrible until Pees took over, and only under his watch has he gotten better.

 

As it stands now, amongst the starting players on this defense (assuming Webb is healthy and I'll lump Dumveril in there to make it an even 12), you've got 8 of 12 guys that were actually drafted by the Ravens. Five of them are first rounders (Ngata, Suggs, Mosley, Jimmy Smith and Elam), and Upshaw is a 2nd rounder. The other two, Williams and Webb, are essentially mid to late rounders. Out of the six guys who were drafted in the first two rounders, only one of them is really "in question" at this point... and that's Elam. Neither of the other one's would be used as some sort of indictment against Pees, because they've all sort of done what we thought they would do.

 

But if you want to indict Pees based on the failure of Elam at the moment, feel free. Its a bit too much (a very big) stretch for me to do that.

[Ravenseconbeast]

lol but must be crap against mediocre ones? That isn't even logical.

 

We are 26th versus the pass, allowing a 93.4 QB rating and a 64.2 completion percentage. That is versus mediocre QBs. That is playing a majority of snaps in zone coverage and rushing 4. Think maybe a smart DC worth anything would try something else?????

 

No i dont think it is crap against bad QBs.  I just think the coverage schemes has worked out when players knew what the assignments were.  Its more of players not knowing their job more than scheme.  

[Ravenseconbeast]

We have faced no real QB yet and are giving up Peyton numbers. I think it is a pretty fair conclusion that an actual talented QB will have a monster day.

 

Besides, I would think that ranking 26th would be an incentive all of its own. But that's just me.

 

 

Nope.  

[ravens rule]

Suggs and Torrey are two guys playing really well even though stats wont show it. Expect breakout games for both of them. 

[ravensdfan]

Sure, except Pees inconsistency is basically limited to 2014 at this point, and it took Cam about five years of inconsistency to be fired.

 

There was nothing inconsistent about our previous Pees defensives. They were good at what they were good at, and they were bad at what they were bad it.

 

Um..no. They were inconsistent. End of year stats do not show inconsistency.  We touted the secondary one game, bemoaned them the next, wondered why they could do well against a top QB and fail miserably against one on the bottom. Pretty much everything this year - except they are consistently bad at defending the pass and getting off the field. Another issue last season.

 

You can quote TOP all you like - all that really means is our offense felt they'd better keep the ball awhile if they wanted to win. They failed on 10 of 15 third down conversions by the Panthers. 30 % success rate. That is not a good, solid defense. That is not geting off the field.

[rmcjacket23]

Um..no. They were inconsistent. End of year stats do not show inconsistency.  We touted the secondary one game, bemoaned them the next, wondered why they could do well against a top QB and fail miserably against one on the bottom. Pretty much everything this year - except they are consistently bad at defending the pass and getting off the field. Another issue last season.

 

You can quote TOP all you like - all that really means is our offense felt they'd better keep the ball awhile if they wanted to win. They failed on 10 of 15 third down conversions by the Panthers. 30 % success rate. That is not a good, solid defense. That is not geting off the field.

And in 2012, we said the exact opposite (also a Pees led defense). Mediocre in pass coverage from yardage standpoint, near the league lead in passing TDs allowed, and we were as inconsistent as it comes in the run game. And yet because the bend but don't break defense worked with an above average offense, it was considered fine. The only year it wasn't fine, not coincidentally, was 2013, when the offense was terrible.

 

At the end of the day, no reasonble person thinks Pees is getting fired mid-season or probably anytime soon. You're going to spend the whole season in prayer method if you think its going to happen, and at the end you'll realize you just wasted your own time.

 

That's not a solution to any problem.

[BSHU_Miami]

LaRon Landry suspended for 4 games

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/29/nfl-suspends-laron-landry-four-games-for-ped-violation/

[JoeyFlex5]

if the rest of the team plays at 100% effort and exceution, and the secondary plays like their typical selves, i still like us in this matchup. 

 

they will light our secondary up, i dont see it playing out any other way, but if we stop the run, get to the qb and force a bad throw to lead to a pick or 2, and if our offense runs the ball for 5 yards a pop like they have been, then i think it looks good for us.

[Cillmatic]

This just in, Colts Pro-Bowl FS LaRon Landry has Ben suspended for 4 games. That bad defense just got a lot worse. I'm expecting a shootout here, could be THE best game of the year.

[BmoreBird22]

The draft pick concept is irrelevant, because then you're just lumping in the linebackers and the defensive line with the secondary at this point, and the secondary is the only unit anybody is concerned about. As it were... they've had essentially two "high" draft picks, in Elam and Jimmy. One is playing well, and one isn't. Smith was also basically terrible until Pees took over, and only under his watch has he gotten better.

Trying not to get off topic here, but Jimmy was actually really good in his rookie season, he was just injured. Pagano did wonderful things for that secondary in 2011, which isn't a terribly large surprise when you consider he was a secondary coach.

He was considered terrible in 2012, Pees' first year, and then came along in 2013, his third year, which is usually a year for corners to turn the corner.

[Cillmatic]

Joe Flacco needs to have a career game, Steve needs to stay Steve, Torrey needs to go HAM, hell EVERYONE on our Offense needs to go HAM. The game will ultimately be decided on how well our defense plays, we NEEDS to get turnovers, keep in mind the Colts have no running game so our defense should be ready for Lucks passes, our front 7 NEEDS to bring maximum pressure to Andrew and our secondary NEED to hold its own. If(big "if") Webb is ready to play some serious ball I think we'll be able to contain Reggie Wayne and Ty Hilton. This will be the biggest test for our team yet.

[1/28/01]

Geeee...shocker that Landry juices! Ha!

[PuRock]

LaRon Landry suspended for 4 games

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/29/nfl-suspends-laron-landry-four-games-for-ped-violation/

 

Really....That guy?  Color me shocked.  

 

The dude is a wannabe Mr. Universe.  

[codizzle]

I understand what you're saying here (though it was slightly amusing as the if/this comments added up ) but, we can't continually give the defense all the high draft picks and then say well, slightly better than average is alright. At some point, the man in charge has to be held accountable for what is a failure.

I wasn't addressing that side of the convo..

I agree but also say we have had quite a few busts in those high draft picks over recent years

And haven't really had any luck landing a great defensive player in mid rounds over recent years. Have found a lot of excellent role players etc but not a team leader type since Webb but with his lingering injuries and all that he kind of negates himself as well

We've gotten lucky it seems with Wagner and possibly LT and Hurst for offense

[codizzle]

Joe Flacco needs to have a career game, Steve needs to stay Steve, Torrey needs to go HAM, hell EVERYONE on our Offense needs to go HAM. The game will ultimately be decided on how well our defense plays, we NEEDS to get turnovers, keep in mind the Colts have no running game so our defense should be ready for Lucks passes, our front 7 NEEDS to bring maximum pressure to Andrew and our secondary NEED to hold its own. If(big "if") Webb is ready to play some serious ball I think we'll be able to contain Reggie Wayne and Ty Hilton. This will be the biggest test for our team yet.

Disagree about biggest test..

Cincinnati is a much better team

[Cville-Raven]

Cant say I'm shocked about the Landry suspension. However, I am surprised it took this long. 

[Cville-Raven]

Disagree about biggest test..

Cincinnati is a much better team

Yeah, Colts aren't even on the same level talent wise in terms of O-line and defense.