Next up: Indianapolis

[arnie_uk]

If you want to know the problem with the defense, look no further than the depth corners in the starting lineup, the safety that can't tackle, the other safety that forgot how to play cover two, and the aging linebacker who took five steps back this season. Aside from those players, everyone else is playing great. Because everyone except those few are playing well, one could easily conclude that DC is not the biggest issue.

that aging linebacker needs subbed out every now abd then to rest up.

[ravensdfan]

If you want to know the problem with the defense, look no further than the depth corners in the starting lineup, the safety that can't tackle, the other safety that forgot how to play cover two, and the aging linebacker who took five steps back this season. Aside from those players, everyone else is playing great. Because everyone except those few are playing well, one could easily conclude that DC is not the biggest issue.

 

We'll hold this discussion until we see how we do facing an actual talented QB on Sunday. It will tell a lot about Pees.

[rmcjacket23]

At what point do you stop shifting the blame to the players, Ozzie, injuries, this and it's that, and realize that when something is the same problem year in and year out - it is likely not the things that change (like players) but the things that are constant. Like your DC.

Because fans never blame players. They blame coaches... but they ONLY blame coaches when things are going poorly, and they NEVER give coaches praise when things are going well.

 

Dean Pees, simply put, is the 2014 version of the 2013 version of Juan Castillo. Fanbase hated him, blamed him for all of the problems with the offensive line, wanted him fired immediately. Kubiak comes in, runs the exact same scheme as Castillo, and we can run on 8 man fronts at will. Not a peep of praise for him and his offensive line. Couldn't possibly be that it was never about Castillo, and had everything to do with the resurgence of talented players like Wagner and Zuttah, and the now seemingly health Osemele.

 

I don't blame injuries at all... I blame the fact that none of this is new information to anybody. The secondary, in particular the safety position, was the single biggest question mark on this defense all offseason, as was the lack of depth at corner. And here we are, four weeks in, asking the same questions we already knew about 3-4 months ago.

 

And yet, somehow, that's the coaches fault, who doesn't actually play football. I can envision it now... Dean Pees, in practice, demonstrating for Darian Stewart how to run in the exact opposite direction of the only receiver is within 30 yards of him and of his designed section of the field, despite that being a fundamental base defense, both in man to man and in zone coverage.

 

Let me guess... the inability to tackle people is also a Dean Pees responsibility too right? Kind of one of the biggest issues in the secondary this season also.

[BmoreBird22]

To whom? The Steelers? Who just lost to the 0-3 Bucs? The Panthers? Who have nearly no offensive weapons. The Browns? Without Gordon? And with Hoyer?

 

About the only offense we've faced worth anythng is Cincy and they still have Dalton who did help the defense out in the red zone (not to mention some odd playcalling).

 

We'll see on Sunday. I'd love to be wrong - I want this win.

So wait, were the 2011 Ravens bad because they lost to the Jaguars? Kelvin Benjamin is probably the best rookie wide receiver in the class so far and Greg Olsen might be the best two way tight end this season, if not the most underrated. The Browns may have had Hoyer, who passed for almost as many yards as Flacco through the first three weeks, only had one less touchdown, and no interceptions. Say what you will about Hoyer, but he was playing like an elite quarterback in the no huddle offense. 

 

Was it Dalton helping out the Ravens defense or the Ravens defense, which has done this in four games so far this season, forcing those mistakes or miscues? 

 

You just want every reason to fire Pees and it's not going to happen unless something drastic happens, like the Ravens giving up consecutive 100 point games.

[Juviebest]

To mediocre QBs and offenses, 4 games in. I like how everyone acts like we've faced Rodgers, Brady, Petyon and Brees or something.

Regardless of the QB, the players still need to go out and execute. They are still NFL QBs, and that's the bottom line. I wouldn't even throw Brady into that conversation really, he's played worse then Hoyer and Dalton so far.

[rmcjacket23]

this lack of talent excuse just can't fly. Stick to the 2nd in ppg argument.

We've spent our first 3 picks in our last two drafts. If we are short at cb and safety thats our own fault. We have stocked this defence. Lack of quality is not an excuse.

His draft picks, or even multiple draft picks, is NOT an indication of talent. Its an indication of PERCEIVED talent at the time they were drafted.

 

Of course the lack of depth at CB and S is the Ravens fault... who elses fault could it be? We've only had one injury. We may have stocked this defense in certain areas, but not in every area. Not hard to figure out which one got the least amount of attention recently.

[Gordo52]

Art Jones is hurt and won't be playing, right?

I'm fully confident in the offense scoring points this game. We should be able to run and pass it on em. I'm confident in our defense generating pressure, inside & out. I don't think they'll be able to run on us either.

Only thing I'm nervous about is obviously their receivers vs our DB's. Someone in the secondary, besides Jimmy, really needs to step up for this game. Luck is prone to make mistakes so if he throws a bad ball, we need to capitalize on it. No dropped picks.

I'm expecting us to win both battles in the trenches. Most of the time when that happens, you also win the game. Ravens win. Both teams put up 25+

[ravensdfan]

So wait, were the 2011 Ravens bad because they lost to the Jaguars? Kelvin Benjamin is probably the best rookie wide receiver in the class so far and Greg Olsen might be the best two way tight end this season, if not the most underrated. The Browns may have had Hoyer, who passed for almost as many yards as Flacco through the first three weeks, only had one less touchdown, and no interceptions. Say what you will about Hoyer, but he was playing like an elite quarterback in the no huddle offense. 

 

Was it Dalton helping out the Ravens defense or the Ravens defense, which has done this in four games so far this season, forcing those mistakes or miscues? 

 

You just want every reason to fire Pees and it's not going to happen unless something drastic happens, like the Ravens giving up consecutive 100 point games.

 

Not necessarily. They expected a Top 5 defense this season, I don't think that includes 26th versus the pass even if you do.

 

For every excuse I make for him to be gone, you and the other 2 make seven for why nothing that goes wrong on defense is his fault. Why is he even here then? Obviously he isn't responsible for anything that happens on the field. Guess we should just let him go and let the players play then since he has zero impact on their play according to you.

[rmcjacket23]

Not necessarily. They expected a Top 5 defense this season, I don't think that includes 26th versus the pass even if you do.

 

For every excuse I make for him to be gone, you and the other 2 make seven for why nothing that goes wrong on defense is his fault. Why is he even here then? Obviously he isn't responsible for anything that happens on the field. Guess we should just let him go and let the players play then since he has zero impact on their play according to you.

In many ways... I agree. I think DC's are amongst the most overrated positions in the NFL.

 

They are NOT like an offensive coordinator, who literally calls a different play on every single play. Most defenses, from what I've heard multiple coaches say, have basically 5-6 formations. That's it. Determining when to use those formations is important, as well as being able to voice certain tendencies and formations they see from the offense down to the defense, but Pees isn't in the mic linebackers ear calling out 12 different calls on a single play like many offenses do.

 

Every player has a responsibility on every play, and for the most part, every player already knows what the responsibility is based on the designed formation. Many of the "big play" breakdowns we've seen from our secondary, as they've already admitted, are players simply not following through with their responsiblities.

[BmoreBird22]

Not necessarily. They expected a Top 5 defense this season, I don't think that includes 26th versus the pass even if you do.

 

For every excuse I make for him to be gone, you and the other 2 make seven for why nothing that goes wrong on defense is his fault. Why is he even here then? Obviously he isn't responsible for anything that happens on the field. Guess we should just let him go and let the players play then since he has zero impact on their play according to you.

He's got a top five defense. If yards are what win games, why are the Falcons and Colts both 2-2? They're both number one in yards on offense. Why are the Jets and 49ers both 1-3. They have top five defenses in terms of yards allowed.

Oh, you mean to tell me you win or lose a game by the scoreboard? I wouldn't have known from the way you're reacting

[ravensdfan]

 

Dean Pees, simply put, is the 2014 version of the 2013 version of Juan Castillo. Fanbase hated him, blamed him for all of the problems with the offensive line, wanted him fired immediately. Kubiak comes in, runs the exact same scheme as Castillo, and we can run on 8 man fronts at will. Not a peep of praise for him and his offensive line. Couldn't possibly be that it was never about Castillo, and had everything to do with the resurgence of talented players like Wagner and Zuttah, and the now seemingly health Osemele.

 

 

Not exactly a good argument when Harbaugh admitted Castillo's approach & personality WERE part of the problem. We had the disucssion that Kubiak was no Caldwell and would stand up to Castillo and run the zone blocking like it should be done. So I guess it was actually about Castillo - per Harbaugh - but I guess you know better than the HC.

[BmoreBird22]

Not exactly a good argument when Harbaugh admitted Castillo's approach & personality WERE part of the problem. We had the disucssion that Kubiak was no Caldwell and would stand up to Castillo and run the zone blocking like it should be done. So I guess it was actually about Castillo - per Harbaugh - but I guess you know better than the HC.

Can you find a link for this? I only ever remember Harbaugh calling him possibly the finest teacher in the game. That and he was one of two offensive line coaches who were used to running two different schemes

[ravensdfan]

He's got a top five defense. If yards are what win games, why are the Falcons and Colts both 2-2? They're both number one in yards on offense. Why are the Jets and 49ers both 1-3. They have top five defenses in terms of yards allowed.

Oh, you mean to tell me you win or lose a game by the scoreboard? I wouldn't have known from the way you're reacting

 

lol so you just ignored the first sentence or did you need to rant that badly?

 

"I don't think a Top 5 defense includes 26th versus the pass even if you do". I mean pretty much ends any argument about it doesn't it? Sort of an "agree to disagree" statement I felt.

[codizzle]

Overhyped. And not as great versus physical defenses. Should go check out Callahan's breakdown of statistics on Rodgers and how he fares versus AFCN teams in relation to the rest of the league. It's interesting. I forget which thread that discussion was in though.

I was just naming those everyone calls the elite though.

Could give a lot of reasons for his struggles against AFC north teams and physical defenses but this isn't a Rodgers thread.

I was just messing with you based on recent Rodgers convo's

[BmoreBird22]

lol so you just ignored the first sentence or did you need to rant that badly?

 

"I don't think a Top 5 defense includes 26th versus the pass even if you do". I mean pretty much ends any argument about it doesn't it? Sort of an "agree to disagree" statement I felt.

All I'm saying is that you're so worried about yardage when what obviously counts is points

[rmcjacket23]

Not exactly a good argument when Harbaugh admitted Castillo's approach & personality WERE part of the problem. We had the disucssion that Kubiak was no Caldwell and would stand up to Castillo and run the zone blocking like it should be done. So I guess it was actually about Castillo - per Harbaugh - but I guess you know better than the HC.

Interesting theory...so then why is Castillo still the O-line coach? It appears my thoughts line up almost EXACTLY with Harbaugh's and the FO. After all, if it was just Castillo's fault, then we should have brought the same five offensive lineman back, fired Castillo, and everything would have been roses. Except... we didn't. We did the exact opposite basically. We kept Castillo (and the system he implemented), and we brought in basically two new offensive lineman. If Castillo was the problem, it appears the FO's actions didn't indicate so.

 

In an interesting twist of irony... I'm being accused of "knowing better than the HC", yet I believe you broached this topic by suggesting that Pees has no idea what he is doing and that the entire passing defense is his fault. Yet, Harbaugh has continued to support him, and given no indication that his job is in jeopardy (despite the fanboard myths suggesting so).

 

Explain to me how your logic doesn't come off as "knowing better than the HC"?

[ravensdfan]

Can you find a link for this? I only ever remember Harbaugh calling him possibly the finest teacher in the game. That and he was one of two offensive line coaches who were used to running two different schemes

 

I'm sorry, it was actually Bisciotti

 

"A source told The Baltimore Sun that players told coach John Harbaugh during the season that they were unhappy with the new blocking scheme instituted by Castillo. After the season, owner Steve Bisciotti acknowledged Castillo "did come on too strong and ruffled some feathers."

 

source: http://espn.go.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/12104/castillo-confident-ravens-can-run-the-ball

[rmcjacket23]

I'm sorry, it was actually Bisciotti

 

"A source told The Baltimore Sun that players told coach John Harbaugh during the season that they were unhappy with the new blocking scheme instituted by Castillo. After the season, owner Steve Bisciotti acknowledged Castillo "did come on too strong and ruffled some feathers."

 

source: http://espn.go.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/12104/castillo-confident-ravens-can-run-the-ball

And yet, they kept him (I believe they promoted him) and the system he instituted.

[ravensdfan]

Could give a lot of reasons for his struggles against AFC north teams and physical defenses but this isn't a Rodgers thread.

I was just messing with you based on recent Rodgers convo's

 

I know, I just really did find Callahan's numbers on the subject interesting. I don't get to see the Pack much and wasn't sure if it was just my perception because of the games I did see, or if it was an actual thing.

 

so back to topic: This game will tell a lot about Pees and his "bend but don't break" philosophy.

[berad]

Perhaps. Though the problem is... we are giving up 15 PPG, which is 2nd in the league.

 

So is the incentive to make radical changes really there?

 

The 21st overall ranking in yards per play (5.8) and the 23rd ranking for 3rd down percentage (~48%)? Getting off the field is important.

[rmcjacket23]

I know, I just really did find Callahan's numbers on the subject interesting. I don't get to see the Pack much and wasn't sure if it was just my perception because of the games I did see, or if it was an actual thing.

 

so back to topic: This game will tell a lot about Pees and his "bend but don't break" philosophy.

One game will never tell a lot about anything.

 

He might get torched by Luck, and then shut down Matt Ryan. What will we have learned then?

[BmoreBird22]

I'm sorry, it was actually Bisciotti

 

"A source told The Baltimore Sun that players told coach John Harbaugh during the season that they were unhappy with the new blocking scheme instituted by Castillo. After the season, owner Steve Bisciotti acknowledged Castillo "did come on too strong and ruffled some feathers."

 

source: http://espn.go.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/12104/castillo-confident-ravens-can-run-the-ball

I'm sure he did ruffle some feathers. The Ravens were typically a man blocking scheme, and then you have someone wanting to teach you how to run the zone blocking when you still have another offensive line coach there. Is it any coincidence that the offensive line is playing lights out now that there's only one offensive line coach?

[ravensdfan]

And yet, they kept him (I believe they promoted him) and the system he instituted.

 

No they didn't promote him, it was the job he had all along without the title in 2013 - Harbaugh said that in the end of year presser.

 

Part of it being successful this season though is the fact that Kubiak's running scheme fits Castillo's scheme. So everyone is on the same page plus the player turnover and just some getting used to Castillo's style. That doesn't erase the fact that when faced with Caldwell's style Castillo couldn't make it work even adequately.

[ravensdfan]

One game will never tell a lot about anything.

 

He might get torched by Luck, and then shut down Matt Ryan. What will we have learned then?

 

lol damage control and it's only Monday?

 

Yes this game will tell a lot about Pees defensive scheme and how successful it really is versus an actual QB.

[rmcjacket23]

No they didn't promote him, it was the job he had all along without the title in 2013 - Harbaugh said that in the end of year presser.

 

Part of it being successful this season though is the fact that Kubiak's running scheme fits Castillo's scheme. So everyone is on the same page plus the player turnover and just some getting used to Castillo's style. That doesn't erase the fact that when faced with Caldwell's style Castillo couldn't make it work even adequately.

Well, in 2013, he was the "run-game coordinator", and Andy was the offensive line coach. The "ruffling of feathers" could have very likely been the discension between the two in terms of what they were looking for out of the line.

 

As such, in 2014, Castillo is now officially the "offensive line coach" and Andy isn't here anymore.

[ravensdfan]

The 21st overall ranking in yards per play (5.8) and the 23rd ranking for 3rd down percentage (~48%)? Getting off the field is important.

 

No it isn't - stop that! The defense doesn't have to get off the field! They're awesome during those 8 to 9 minute drives by our opponents!

 

Just nonsense.

 

/sarcasm

[BmoreBird22]

The 21st overall ranking in yards per play (5.8) and the 23rd ranking for 3rd down percentage (~48%)? Getting off the field is important.

Well, if it's any consolation, the Ravens are actually slightly leading in TOP, so they are getting off the field

[rmcjacket23]

lol damage control and it's only Monday?

 

Yes this game will tell a lot about Pees defensive scheme and how successful it really is versus an actual QB.

Interesting that you ignored the question I asked... which also was the most relevant point of the post.

[BmoreBird22]

No it isn't - stop that! The defense doesn't have to get off the field! They're awesome during those 8 to 9 minute drives by our opponents!

 

Just nonsense.

 

/sarcasm

The offense is leading in TOP

[ravensdfan]

Interesting that you ignored the question I asked... which also was the most relevant point of the post.

 

How is it relevant? I'm talking about not forcing our offense to drop a 40 or 50 burger to win plus hope they have the ball last to keep the other team off the field. Even if we win, if it is a scenario such as that - then Pees scheme is a big fail because that situation isn't going to go in your favor all the time.

 

So I mean, what are you talking about exactly if it is successful versus Ryan? We haven't been sucessful limiting a QB yet. 93.4 QB rating. Not very sucessful.