#1 WR

[FlocksGottaFeed]

This isn't a topic to dookie on Torrey Smith, because I like him. This is a post to discuss something we may have never had in Baltimore before.... A number 1 wide out.

Before I get drilled about Anquan, I consider him one of the best #2's of all time. But Smitty is the best receiver we've had here.

I hope he sets the standard for the type of receiver that we settle for in the future. A route runner that fights for the ball, intensity.

Am I far off here?

Great post. I wish that I could add something more to it, but this is all I got. imo - A one receiver is the guy who:

1. Gets the majority of looks

2. Can run any pattern effectively to get separation

3. Commands respect (special attention) from opposing defenses

4. Consistently makes plays

The other non-scientific measure for me is when a majority of Hall of Famers who were defensive backs and wide receivers say that you are a #1 receiver. I tend to believe that they know what they're talking about. I have yet to hear one of them say that Torrey didn't have the potential to be a 'great' #1 and/or that Smith Sr. hasn't been anything less than a 'great' #1.

[GrimCoconut]

I think a #1 WR depends on the QB as well. Certain QB like certain WR. I think that plays a big part. Granted, if you have a WR that fits any QB that's a truly elite player, but those are so rare and hard to find. Joe seems to prefer WR that are good route runners. He seems to prefer guys he can trust. I've noticed that since his rookie year until now. I feel like that's a big reason why he connected so quickly with Steve Smith. I think it's why he picked Doss. He likes guys who are smooth with their routes.

Rashad Greene and Ty Montgomery are two guys I feel guy this bill. I think both can develop into true #1 WR. Would love to draft either guy.

I also think this is why Torrey struggles at times. Joe won't hesitate to throw the ball to anyone if they're open but he does prefer smooth route runners.

[Robbo15]

This isn't a topic to dookie on Torrey Smith, because I like him. This is a post to discuss something we may have never had in Baltimore before.... A number 1 wide out.

Before I get drilled about Anquan, I consider him one of the best #2's of all time. But Smitty is the best receiver we've had here.

I hope he sets the standard for the type of receiver that we settle for in the future. A route runner that fights for the ball, intensity.

Am I far off here?

Michael Jackson would have something to say about this

[Robbo15]

Ravens have 6 WRs: 1 2nd rnd pick, Torrey; 2 3rd rnd picks, Steve Sr., & Jacoby; and tho Camp was a 7th rnd pick he is easily grouped with the other 2 UdFAs, Kamar & Marlon.

Since Flacco was drafted, Ozzie has picked David Reed in the 5th, Torrey, Tandon Doss in the 4th, & Tom Streeter in the 6th round. My point is the Ravens don't need to give up draft picks, ala Buffalo last draft, to get quality receivers but we do need to invest 2nd & 3rd round picks (top 100) for quality receivers. Stop picking up wall flowers and ugly Bettys and expecting them to turn into beauty queens.

exactly

[acranfor]

Not really a great argument though. The only real argument to suggest that elite WRs aren't worth it would be based on how much money you eventually have to pay them (i.e. cap space) vs. what you can spend on the rest of the team, such as defense and OL.

 

In the case of guys like Julio, Dez, and AJ Green, they aren't really costing their respective teams much in terms of salary cap space, and especially when you consider their on-field production.

 

I would generally agree that when you have to pay gigantic money to somebody like Calvin Johnson, it becomes difficult to decide whether that investment is worth it, given the historical success of the team itself (or in the Lions case, lack of success). In the Lions case, if you had in one DT (Suh), the Lions have $50M in cap space committed to just three players (Suh, Stafford and Megatron) in 2014. That's virtually an unattainable scenario for most teams.

 

But the perks of getting guys like Green/Dez/Julio is that they will take up relatively manageable amounts against the salary cap over a 4-5 year period early in their career. Fans can't just blanketly say "well those guys haven't won SBs, so therefore there's no point in having them on our team", because that's not really how things work. If they were making $15M a season, then you might have an argument. But when those guys are carrying 7-figure cap numbers, they aren't the problem.

It was not meant to be an argument, simply an observation. But I have before stated my case that for a team typically picking out of the top 15 year to year to get an 'elite number 1 receiver' (the sexy pick everyone here wants); said team would have to ignore building - to me - more important areas (OL, Defense, etc) to do so. A prime example is the Falcons.

 

Well what if we get lucky and land someone in later rounds such as the Broncos with Brandon Marshall? Yes, this would be great, but then after this you worry about paying them 4-5 years down the road.

 

Overall, an elite number 1 WR is a lot of maintenance and really hinders more important areas. I personally like the WR by committee approach.

[CalvinSmoke]

It was not meant to be an argument, simply an observation. But I have before stated my case that for a team typically picking out of the top 15 year to year to get an 'elite number 1 receiver' (the sexy pick everyone here wants); said team would have to ignore building - to me - more important areas (OL, Defense, etc) to do so. A prime example is the Falcons.

 

Well what if we get lucky and land someone in later rounds such as the Broncos with Brandon Marshall? Yes, this would be great, but then after this you worry about paying them 4-5 years down the road.

 

Overall, an elite number 1 WR is a lot of maintenance and really hinders more important areas. I personally like the WR by committee approach.

At the end of the day, the best team wins, not the team with the elite running back, or quarter back. But having those great players certainly help.

 

Last year it wasn't just Seattle's defense that won, but their team. Same as with us the year before. But having a wide receiver on the outside that is reliable, week in and week out when you need him (500 yard receiver or 1,000 yards) that's what we should strive for out of our wide receiver position. Boldin was everything we could have asked for except consistent (you can blame the scheme or whatever but it is what it is)

[52520Andrew]

I see the #1 WR argument as pretty similar to the elite QB argument. With that said, I might as well get my opinion in on where the guys stack up.

 

Mason: I think he was a #1 WR when he was here. He may not have been the best statistically but he was routinely underrated and didn't have anyone really to throw to him outside of Flacco at the end and McNair for one year and some change here. He was in those years to me what a #1 guy was supposed to be and that is the go to guy who is consistently going to do damage game in and game out. They can have bad games since everyone does but they should be few and far between. He will also draw the top coverage from another team's top corner if they have one. 

 

Boldin: He certainly was great in the Super Bowl run but I never saw the consistency with Boldin that I saw from Mason. He is a guy who can take over a game when he is on but then the next week you would hardly hear from him. I think ideally that is more what you want out of a #2. The Steelers would also throw Ike Taylor on Torrey as opposed to Boldin when we played them which I think is pretty big(they don't move Ike Taylor around like they used to now but back then, he would be on Torrey)

 

Steve Smith: So far in these 3 games, he has made his presence felt each game. We will see how he does throughout the rest of the season but the potential is certainly there for him to be up there. Also for the record, Steve Smith's big catch this past week was against Haden who the Browns move around. 

[TDubbs]

Steve Smith is a legitimate #1 WR and always has been. I just wish so bad he was like 5-7 years younger, it would be fun to see him here for a long time. 

[goldenboldin]

I think Anquan Boldin and Derrick Mason were outstanding #1 WR's for Baltimore standards.

 

Outside of that, I think Steve Smith is likely at their level. We've never had a top their wideout. Almost drafted Dez Bryant. I hope next year's first round pick ends up with a big bodied WR in purple/black.

[DomMcRaven]

Steve Smith is a legitimate #1 WR and always has been. I just wish so bad he was like 5-7 years younger, it would be fun to see him here for a long time. 

I was telling my friends the same thing the day that Smitty was signed to us. I was saying if we had him in his prime "I would have been doing cartwheels, jumping jacks, running around my house like a maniac, etc (lol).

[Bruce_Almty]

Haha. I wanted to see how many feathers I could ruffle. I was half serious, but all I will say is in this league, you never know. As of now he seems to be a sure handed guy that might come in handy if there are anymore significant injuries.

If Kamar had come out this year I could agree more with you but he has knocked around the pros for 2 years now and as I said cut by 3 teams. Maybe he's a late developer but several teams have had ample opportunity to evaluate him. If & when they play him, I hope he is great and I'm totally proven wrong.

[cushrinada1986]

Now that Flacco looks more comfortable with Smitty being his first choice, that should help the ball come out faster since he knows who his #1 is. The sucky thing about this is that it starts to look like Torrey may never be a true number one but at least he would be a deadly #2 if we can keep someone like Smitty or Bolden on our roster. TBH, with what I saw last week, the depth should be as follows:

 

Smith Sr

Smith

Brown

Aiken

Thompson

 

2 vet receivers that can feed off each other, two big body WRs that can get 8 yards at a time, and a homerun speedster(I left Jones off until I see him imporve). With this line up and our running game, things could get ugly for opposing defenses. 

[BmoreBird22]

If Kamar had come out this year I could agree more with you but he has knocked around the pros for 2 years now and as I said cut by 3 teams. Maybe he's a late developer but several teams have had ample opportunity to evaluate him. If & when they play him, I hope he is great and I'm totally proven wrong.

I'm late to comment on this, but as far as evaluating talent goes, isn't Forsett in his fifth team in five years? He now leads the NFL in rushing. Sometimes it just takes the right situation and a chance

[rmcjacket23]

I'm late to comment on this, but as far as evaluating talent goes, isn't Forsett in his fifth team in five years? He now leads the NFL in rushing. Sometimes it just takes the right situation and a chance

Leads the team in rushing, not the NFL.

[BmoreBird22]

Leads the team in rushing, not the NFL.

I'm sorry, I meant YPC

[beasy2487]

I'm sorry, I meant YPC

 

Yea he's in the perfect situation. He's a small guy that likes to run between the tackles and he's running behind two of the best guards in the NFL. Even in Houston, although it was the same scheme, the strength of line when it was at its best was lateral athleticism that lent it self to stretch runs and cutbacks. Forsett can excel there but he really does his damage with his patience in the interior. Our line has the athleticism to move laterally but KO and Yanda both truly shine when manning up DT and NTs, as well as pulling to get to the second level. Forsett is perfect in this scenario because he can just hide behind the guards and then explode in short space. It's really fun to watch and makes you sad because a certain other back we used to have on this team would've looked like he was from another planet in this offense .

 

Back on topic, I think Steve Smith is our #1 option but I'm not sure we have a #1 receiver per se. I think the nature of the routes Torrey runs are putting him at a disadvantage right now because, as is being discussed in other threads, Joe is erring on the side of getting the ball out quickly. By nature, Torrey runs routes deeper down the field that take longer to develop and thus is being targeted a lower percentage of the time. I think once Joe has confidence that the line is who we think they are and that everyone is on the same page in terms of reading the defense we will see Torrey's touches even out with Steve's.

[1/28/01]

Yea he's in the perfect situation. He's a small guy that likes to run between the tackles and he's running behind two of the best guards in the NFL. Even in Houston, although it was the same scheme, the strength of line when it was at its best was lateral athleticism that lent it self to stretch runs and cutbacks. Forsett can excel there but he really does his damage with his patience in the interior. Our line has the athleticism to move laterally but KO and Yanda both truly shine when manning up DT and NTs, as well as pulling to get to the second level. Forsett is perfect in this scenario because he can just hide behind the guards and then explode in short space. It's really fun to watch and makes you sad because a certain other back we used to have on this team would've looked like he was from another planet in this offense .

Back on topic, I think Steve Smith is our #1 option but I'm not sure we have a #1 receiver per se. I think the nature of the routes Torrey runs are putting him at a disadvantage right now because, as is being discussed in other threads, Joe is erring on the side of getting the ball out quickly. By nature, Torrey runs routes deeper down the field that take longer to develop and thus is being targeted a lower percentage of the time. I think once Joe has confidence that the line is who we think they are and that everyone is on the same page in terms of reading the defense we will see Torrey's touches even out with Steve's.

I think about the bolded part on just about every Forsett carry

[BSHU_Miami]

Hopefully the breakout of Steve Smith wakes the front office up to know that a number 1 wide receiver is important to Joe. Hopefully they go after this position more aggressively in the off-season. By the way what the hell happened to Larry Fitzgerald

[1/28/01]

Hopefully the breakout of Steve Smith wakes the front office to know that a number 1 wide receiver is important to Joe. Hopefully they go after this position more aggressively in the off-season. By the way what the hell happened to Larry Fitzgerald

Having the worst pool of QBs finally caught up to the poor guy!

[RaineV1]

Arizona is like the opposite of the Ravens for the last few years. They had an amazing #1 receiver, but can't get a franchise quarterback.

[PolishRifle]

Steve, Anquan and Mason had one thing in common, they could all consistently catch the ball. I know it doesn't sound like much, but really how often can this be said about our WR corps? The game against the Bengals reminded me alot of what the Ravens offense looked like last season and that was thanks to our WRs dropping anything thrown their way. As soon as they got over that, especially Steve the following week, our offense took off. So it's not really all that complicated to build a decent passing offense around Joe and you don't need an overpriced star receiver for it either. Just a set of good hands.

[Ravenseconbeast]

Steve, Anquan and Mason had one thing in common, they could all consistently catch the ball. I know it doesn't sound like much, but really how often can this be said about our WR corps? The game against the Bengals reminded me alot of what the Ravens offense looked like last season and that was thanks to our WRs dropping anything thrown their way. As soon as they got over that, especially Steve the following week, our offense took off. So it's not really all that complicated to build a decent passing offense around Joe and you don't need an overpriced star receiver for it either. Just a set of good hands.

They are durable too. I can't tell if any of them are injured or not, but they know how to take some hits and brush it off like nothing happened.

[BSHU_Miami]

Having the worst pool of QBs finally caught up to the poor guy!

LOL, Dude's not even hurt. Its crazy. Man, Imagine Joe with Fitzgerald I've never seen him drop anything. All those seasons that ended on dropped passes...all those games ended on drop passes.

[Drew P]

LOL, Dude's not even hurt. Its crazy. Man, Imagine Joe with Fitzgerald I've never seen him drop anything. All those seasons that ended on dropped passes...all those games ended on drop passes.

 

He is on the trade block if some squad can swing that cap #

[Inqui]

He is on the trade block if some squad can swing that cap #

And with our dead money from Rice and (hopefully not) Pitta, plus Ozzie's MO of prioritising our own FAs for this year and next, I'd say there's about a 0 per cent chance it happens. Really nice thought though.

[RaineV1]

And with our dead money from Rice and (hopefully not) Pitta, plus Ozzie's MO of prioritising our own FAs for this year and next, I'd say there's about a 0 per cent chance it happens. Really nice thought though.

Yeah, sadly this is probably the case. The Ravens would need to do a lot in order to afford him. However, just the thought of Flacco having Fitzgerald and Steve Smith as his number 1 and 2 options is insane. Especially when you add Daniels, Juice, and (if he develops) Campanaro to the mix. As well as a strong running game. The Ravens would be putting up points the way the Pats and Saints used to.

[jimjim5]

Being a #1 WR and being the #1 option are very different. Unfortunately We've never had a top tier talent at WR... I'd consider Mason being a #1 for us at some point in time during his stay here. I think an argument could be made for him being a top 10-15 WR in the league during his prime years here. I think he was probably used the best among qualifiers. (I miss those comeback routes for 1st downs, badly).

IMO, Boldin has always been suited to be the best #2...... But during that playoff run he transformed into something very special us. (Mini Megatron).... He wasn't used the way he should have been for the majority of his career here, (blame Cam for that.) But if he had, I think he would've had the potential to be our greatest WR ever. Boldin will always be in my top 3 favorite players of all time. Love everything he's about and the way he handles himself.

Throughout 3 games Steve Smith Sr. has looked absolutely dominant... I think getting cut by the Panthers motivated him (Like Q getting traded.) I doubt he would be on the tear he's on had Carolina kept him. Regardless though, right now I'd call him a #1. It's still a small size but he's been filthy in all aspects so far...dropped a few early on but he's already more than made up for it.

As for Torrey, we all had high hopes for him. It looks like he is what he is. A speedy WR with limited route running, doesn't fight for the ball, inconsistent hands and average after the catch. If it wasn't for his speed threat, he'd be pretty mediocre. I love his personality and some moments he's had with us so far, but 3 games in, he's been a disappointment. Still time to improve though....I'd like to resign him at high WR3/Low WR2 #'s. Unfortunately I think that's his upside at this point. .....Should've never cut his hair lol

Maybe one day we'll draft and develop a freakish, matchup nightmare and have him during his best years. I dream it's sometime soon during Joe's best years.

 

Torrey does not have inconsistent hands. That was two years ago.. Torrey has good hands and a good catch radius. However, Torrey is a strider, not a cutter. He does fight for the ball all of the time on intermediate and deep routes, but he is not built as a slippery, shifty guy or an ultra-physical short route guy. His time will come, but remember they bracket him or foul him to prevent  him dominating at his strengths. This helps the whole receiving core.

[Rav'n Maniac]

And with our dead money from Rice and (hopefully not) Pitta, plus Ozzie's MO of prioritising our own FAs for this year and next, I'd say there's about a 0 per cent chance it happens. Really nice thought though.

Exactly correct. Right player, wrong price.

[Static]

I'm late to comment on this, but as far as evaluating talent goes, isn't Forsett in his fifth team in five years? He now leads the NFL in rushing. Sometimes it just takes the right situation and a chance

 

WHAA??? He's not even top 10.

[Rav'n Maniac]

WHAA??? He's not even top 10.

He's #1 in YPC.