#1 WR

[CalvinSmoke]

This isn't a topic to dookie on Torrey Smith, because I like him. This is a post to discuss something we may have never had in Baltimore before.... A number 1 wide out.

Before I get drilled about Anquan, I consider him one of the best #2's of all time. But Smitty is the best receiver we've had here.

I hope he sets the standard for the type of receiver that we settle for in the future. A route runner that fights for the ball, intensity.

Am I far off here?

[RaineV1]

Part of the reason why I wanted us to get Beckham Jr. in this years draft, because he reminded me of how Steve Smith plays. It's hard to find a true number 1 when you're always drafting in the second half of the round, but can be doable if you do a lot of research.

[5aiah]

Just going to add that your definition of #1 Wide Receiver is way off and that you should switch to "Star Receiver". We've had many #1 Receivers but I guess you can argue that Boldin wasn't a star(even though he was) and was better as a support receiver aka #2 receiver(though that was also proven wrong many times). This conversation has been had many times and some people will never get what a #1 receiver means so I'll just remind debaters that its more of a discussion on definition and semantics(and is completely pointless) than football, if you refuse debate on common ground. 

[acranfor]

I agree that Smith is great for this team and is a true Raven from a standpoint of attitude, his hardwork, etc. I hope we find another player like him, not just a WR but any position. HOWEVER, I have stated time and time again, an elite "number 1" wide receiver is not a necessity and I do not see the Ravens mortgaging the future to get one.

Ravens high draft picks will for the most part be based on O line and defense. This is what wins games and championships. i still challenge someone to offer the last elite number 1 receiver to win a super bowl?

I am not sure if this is exactly what you were asking. I agree that everyone would love a steve smith type at any position. But I do not agree that we need a number 1 receiver in how it is defined today - Calvin, AJ, etc.

[CalvinSmoke]

Just going to add that your definition of #1 Wide Receiver is way off and that you should switch to "Star Receiver". We've had many #1 Receivers but I guess you can argue that Boldin wasn't a star(even though he was) and was better as a support receiver aka #2 receiver(though that was also proven wrong many times). This conversation has been had many times and some people will never get what a #1 receiver means so I'll just remind debaters that its more of a discussion on definition and semantics(and is completely pointless) than football, if you refuse debate on common ground.

well yes by #1 I do mean star reciever. Glad you understood me there

[CalvinSmoke]

I agree that Smith is great for this team and is a true Raven from a standpoint of attitude, his hardwork, etc. I hope we find another player like him, not just a WR but any position. HOWEVER, I have stated time and time again, an elite "number 1" wide receiver is not a necessity and I do not see the Ravens mortgaging the future to get one.

Ravens high draft picks will for the most part be based on O line and defense. This is what wins games and championships. i still challenge someone to offer the last elite number 1 receiver to win a super bowl?

I am not sure if this is exactly what you were asking. I agree that everyone would love a steve smith type at any position. But I do not agree that we need a number 1 receiver in how it is defined today - Calvin, AJ, etc.

well said, I'm not saying our team can't live without it, I just hope that smitty becomes our standard. If someone wants elite money at the wr position on our team, they have to give us some of what this 30+ year old is giving us

[SeaHawk]

I agree that Smith is great for this team and is a true Raven from a standpoint of attitude, his hardwork, etc. I hope we find another player like him, not just a WR but any position. HOWEVER, I have stated time and time again, an elite "number 1" wide receiver is not a necessity and I do not see the Ravens mortgaging the future to get one.

Ravens high draft picks will for the most part be based on O line and defense. This is what wins games and championships. i still challenge someone to offer the last elite number 1 receiver to win a super bowl?

I am not sure if this is exactly what you were asking. I agree that everyone would love a steve smith type at any position. But I do not agree that we need a number 1 receiver in how it is defined today - Calvin, AJ, etc.

 

This is very true... when has Julio, Dez, Calvin, Andre, Fitzgerald, or even AJ Green ever won a Super Bowl?? With the exception of Fitz, they haven't even come close. The best receiver to have won a super bowl in the past years is Jordy Nelson, but that was before he became what he is today.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Flacco's always had a #1 WR, first Mason, then Boldin, then Torrey last year, and now Steve Smith.

What Flacco has often lacked was a complete receiving corp (3 starter quality WRs + TE + pass catching RB + decent depth at each position) The only seasons he's had a complete corp was in 2010 (Mason, Boldin, Houshmenzadeh, Heap, and Rice as starters; with Dickson, McClain, McGahee, and Pitta as depth) and again in 2012 (Boldin, T. Smith, J. Jones, Pitta, and Rice as starters; with Dickson, Leach, Pierce, Doss, D. Reed and Thompson as depth)

Notice how even in 2010, the Ravens did not have any depth at WR beyond the starting 3, that only in 2012 have the Ravens fielded a complete offense.

 

And which year was it they won the Superbowl? And which 2 seasons have been Joe's best, so far?

 

The problem has not been the lack of star receivers for Joe.

The problem has been the lack of enough receivers for Joe (or for any QB, for that matter).

[gabefergy]

My definition of a number 1 WR is a guy that can consistently beat coverage and is a threat at every level of the field. There isn't an arbitrary number of catches or yards that makes a WR1, but more of the respect garnered by opposing defenses.

That said, the closest thing the Ravens have had was probably Derrick Mason.

Steve Smith looks to fit the part so far, but I need more than 3 games before I crown him the best WR the Ravens have ever had.

[DomMcRaven]

I just want Torrey and Jacoby/Marlon to step up along with Smitty. Give three or four quality receivers (asking a lot) and we're good. Heck I'll count TEs as receivers too (why not).

[Guest I-70WestRaven]

This isn't a topic to dookie on Torrey Smith, because I like him. This is a post to discuss something we may have never had in Baltimore before.... A number 1 wide out.

Before I get drilled about Anquan, I consider him one of the best #2's of all time. But Smitty is the best receiver we've had here.

I hope he sets the standard for the type of receiver that we settle for in the future. A route runner that fights for the ball, intensity.

Am I far off here?

Great thread, I for one thought Torrey was the answer but he seems to have regressed. Reasons unknown, but I get what you are saying. Imagine us with Megatron? How about the Bears? That is one impressive corps. I'd like to think we can do this too but we need to show this and soon! Also we have the age factor and contracts working against us. Just my thoughts and a good thread to debate, kudos on the topic!! Raven fans, let's hear it!!

[ravens rule]

Man I wish we could have got him 5 years ago. Steve is a #1 go to guy and was always. Throughout his career he got consistent separation and yac. Boldin was a #2 possession guy, one of the best complimentary wr ever. Mason was a #2 guy as is Torrey. 

[codizzle]

My definition of a number 1 WR is a guy that can consistently beat coverage and is a threat at every level of the field. There isn't an arbitrary number of catches or yards that makes a WR1, but more of the respect garnered by opposing defenses.

That said, the closest thing the Ravens have had was probably Derrick Mason.

Steve Smith looks to fit the part so far, but I need more than 3 games before I crown him the best WR the Ravens have ever had.

Agreed 100%

Mason was a number #1 for quite awhile

One of our best signings ever

[Gordo52]

Being a #1 WR and being the #1 option are very different. Unfortunately We've never had a top tier talent at WR... I'd consider Mason being a #1 for us at some point in time during his stay here. I think an argument could be made for him being a top 10-15 WR in the league during his prime years here. I think he was probably used the best among qualifiers. (I miss those comeback routes for 1st downs, badly).

IMO, Boldin has always been suited to be the best #2...... But during that playoff run he transformed into something very special us. (Mini Megatron).... He wasn't used the way he should have been for the majority of his career here, (blame Cam for that.) But if he had, I think he would've had the potential to be our greatest WR ever. Boldin will always be in my top 3 favorite players of all time. Love everything he's about and the way he handles himself.

Throughout 3 games Steve Smith Sr. has looked absolutely dominant... I think getting cut by the Panthers motivated him (Like Q getting traded.) I doubt he would be on the tear he's on had Carolina kept him. Regardless though, right now I'd call him a #1. It's still a small size but he's been filthy in all aspects so far...dropped a few early on but he's already more than made up for it.

As for Torrey, we all had high hopes for him. It looks like he is what he is. A speedy WR with limited route running, doesn't fight for the ball, inconsistent hands and average after the catch. If it wasn't for his speed threat, he'd be pretty mediocre. I love his personality and some moments he's had with us so far, but 3 games in, he's been a disappointment. Still time to improve though....I'd like to resign him at high WR3/Low WR2 #'s. Unfortunately I think that's his upside at this point. .....Should've never cut his hair lol

Maybe one day we'll draft and develop a freakish, matchup nightmare and have him during his best years. I dream it's sometime soon during Joe's best years.

[Inqui]

I like gabefergy's definition of being a threat all over the park, being able to get open and being generally dependable. Just to add to it, I think there's a degree of being situational when it comes to a consensus WR1.

 

It would be wildly optimistic to hope for the kind of guy that gets picked in the first couple of rounds in fantasy every year, and I don't think anyone here really wants that (and anyone who implies a lot of people do is just building a strawman). As others have said, the kind of resources required to get a guy like that tend to go to the defensive side of the ball - as they should.

 

But what we've never had long-term is the guy you can rely on to make plays when needed. When we were down by 4 in Pittsburgh a few seasons ago, there wasn't really anyone Joe could look straight at. Were the Steelers in the same position you know they'd be looking at Antonio Brown, the Bengals to AJ Green, the Seahawks to Doug Baldwin - and so on.

 

I love Joe as much as anyone, but I do think he needs guys around him to get him at his best. When we've had back-to-back three-and-out drives, Joe's in a slump and everyone's frustrated, a WR1 can be expected to get somewhere and make a play to keep the drive alive.

 

Steve Smith's been doing all of that well enough so far, we obviously wanted that off Mark Clayton, can't argue with Mason and maybe Boldin could have done it with the right mind at OC. Picking up guys in FA hasn't been the worst model in the world (mitigates the risk), but I'd love for Ozzie to break his BPA philosophy to get a potential WR1 in the draft so he can develop that chemistry with Joe and we have some longer-term consistency at the position. And as the OP mentioned, Steve Smith's probably not a bad guy to try and emulate, although I think he's far from the only one.

[Tru11]

both mason and boldin where #1 wrs.......

 

also steve smith is a special case.

you wont find many players with his size who can play like him.

 

when i look at the teams with star WRs and i look at how the ravens do things i rather stick to what the ravens are doing.

 

why anyone wants to trade in succes for fantasy numbers is beyond me.

[Cillmatic]

Steve Smith is almost LITERALLY the ONLY receiver we have. With Pitts out it seems that a Steve is our star receiver.

[Militant X 1]

The #1, #2, #3 or #4 wide receiver; I couldn't care less about who that is or maybe at the moment.  I just want the receiver that the ball is thrown to...to CATCH IT!

 

@Mili

[RobFuseRaven]

In 2 years Kamar Aikin will be a number 1. You heard it here first. > : )

[rmcjacket23]

In 2 years Kamar Aikin will be a number 1. You heard it here first. > : )

I heard the exact same things about Aaron Mellette and Tommy Streeter...

[rmcjacket23]

This is very true... when has Julio, Dez, Calvin, Andre, Fitzgerald, or even AJ Green ever won a Super Bowl?? With the exception of Fitz, they haven't even come close. The best receiver to have won a super bowl in the past years is Jordy Nelson, but that was before he became what he is today.

Not really a great argument though. The only real argument to suggest that elite WRs aren't worth it would be based on how much money you eventually have to pay them (i.e. cap space) vs. what you can spend on the rest of the team, such as defense and OL.

 

In the case of guys like Julio, Dez, and AJ Green, they aren't really costing their respective teams much in terms of salary cap space, and especially when you consider their on-field production.

 

I would generally agree that when you have to pay gigantic money to somebody like Calvin Johnson, it becomes difficult to decide whether that investment is worth it, given the historical success of the team itself (or in the Lions case, lack of success). In the Lions case, if you had in one DT (Suh), the Lions have $50M in cap space committed to just three players (Suh, Stafford and Megatron) in 2014. That's virtually an unattainable scenario for most teams.

 

But the perks of getting guys like Green/Dez/Julio is that they will take up relatively manageable amounts against the salary cap over a 4-5 year period early in their career. Fans can't just blanketly say "well those guys haven't won SBs, so therefore there's no point in having them on our team", because that's not really how things work. If they were making $15M a season, then you might have an argument. But when those guys are carrying 7-figure cap numbers, they aren't the problem.

[rmcjacket23]

Agreed 100%

Mason was a number #1 for quite awhile

One of our best signings ever

Statistically, its hard to argue Mason was a #1. He may have been a #1 in Tennessee, but certainly not in Baltimore.

 

In Mason's BEST year in Baltimore, he was 4th in the league in receptions and 19th in the league in yardage. He never once was a top 15 receiver in yardage during his entire tenure in Baltimore.

 

We can play the "well Mason and Boldin made the "tough catches"" argument all day long, but the reality is, the elite WRs (the guys who are consistently in the top 10 of most statistical categories) also make those "touch catches".

 

Mason, like Boldin, was a #1 on OUR team, but on probably half the teams in the league during their time, he would have been a #2 and on some a #3. Boldin in particular, who's statistical numbers were not overly impressive during his tenure in Baltimore (never once cracked the top 25 in receiving yards).

 

And no, the fact that Boldin won a SB doesn't make him a better receiver than those other guys. That's now how the real world works.

[Bruce_Almty]

Ravens have 6 WRs: 1 2nd rnd pick, Torrey; 2 3rd rnd picks, Steve Sr., & Jacoby; and tho Camp was a 7th rnd pick he is easily grouped with the other 2 UdFAs, Kamar & Marlon.

 

Since Flacco was drafted, Ozzie has picked David Reed in the 5th, Torrey, Tandon Doss in the 4th, & Tom Streeter in the 6th round. My point is the Ravens don't need to give up draft picks, ala Buffalo last draft, to get quality receivers but we do need to invest 2nd & 3rd round picks (top 100) for quality receivers. Stop picking up wall flowers and ugly Bettys and expecting them to turn into beauty queens.

[Bruce_Almty]

In 2 years Kamar Aikin will be a number 1. You heard it here first. > : )

 

So you think an UdFA that has been cut from 3 teams PS is the future of Baltimore's receiving corps? Good luck with that.

[rmcjacket23]

Ravens have 6 WRs: 1 2nd rnd pick, Torrey; 2 3rd rnd picks, Steve Sr., & Jacoby; and tho Camp was a 7th rnd pick he is easily grouped with the other 2 UdFAs, Kamar & Marlon.

 

Since Flacco was drafted, Ozzie has picked David Reed in the 5th, Torrey, Tandon Doss in the 4th, & Tom Streeter in the 6th round. My point is the Ravens don't need to give up draft picks, ala Buffalo last draft, to get quality receivers but we do need to invest 2nd & 3rd round picks (top 100) for quality receivers. Stop picking up wall flowers and ugly Bettys and expecting them to turn into beauty queens.

It shouldn't be news to anybody that the achilles heal in player development in this franchise has been WRs, and that's been an ongoing problem since long before the Harbaugh/Flacco era took over. We seemingly can turn paper into gold (and probably have) at just about every other position in this franchise except for WR and maybe QB (we use high picks on QBs).

 

The problem is... most of the "elite" WRs in this league are going to be first rounders, typically in the front-half of the first round. You've essentially got to lose a pretty good amount of football games to get in that position, and that's not something we are accustomed or even want to do at this point.

 

Given what see now, you could argue that Torrey hasn't quite developed the way a lot of fans expecting or were hoping, and he was a 2nd round pick, which is probably about as high as we are usually willing to spend on a draftable WR.

[RobFuseRaven]

I heard the exact same things about Aaron Mellette and Tommy Streeter...

So you think an UdFA that has been cut from 3 teams PS is the future of Baltimore's receiving corps? Good luck with that.

Haha. I wanted to see how many feathers I could ruffle. I was half serious, but all I will say is in this league, you never know. As of now he seems to be a sure handed guy that might come in handy if there are anymore significant injuries.

[BirdWatcher]

Haha. I wanted to see how many feathers I could ruffle.

We call that "trolling" and it isn't appreciated.

[beatdareaper]

I always thought Clarence Moore would be our Randy Moss but he turned out to be a bum.

[RobFuseRaven]

We call that "trolling" and it isn't appreciated.

My apologies. I joke around a lot.

[BmoreBird22]

Just going to add that your definition of #1 Wide Receiver is way off and that you should switch to "Star Receiver". We've had many #1 Receivers but I guess you can argue that Boldin wasn't a star(even though he was) and was better as a support receiver aka #2 receiver(though that was also proven wrong many times). This conversation has been had many times and some people will never get what a #1 receiver means so I'll just remind debaters that its more of a discussion on definition and semantics(and is completely pointless) than football, if you refuse debate on common ground.

Just going to add that your definition of #1 Wide Receiver is way off and that you should switch to "Star Receiver". We've had many #1 Receivers but I guess you can argue that Boldin wasn't a star(even though he was) and was better as a support receiver aka #2 receiver(though that was also proven wrong many times). This conversation has been had many times and some people will never get what a #1 receiver means so I'll just remind debaters that its more of a discussion on definition and semantics(and is completely pointless) than football, if you refuse debate on common ground.

The interpretation of a number one receiver is definitely up for debate if you don't simply go by "he's number one on the depth chart"