courtney upshaw making the leap

[Fries]

I went back and watched the play again in slow motion. I have to agree with you on this. It didn't deserve a penalty. If you look at the hit, Upshaw's head hits Ben's arm and the ball, not his chest, head, etc.

Certain crews you'll get a flag others you wont. Refs are humans too... i just wish they were consistent. Because the burfict hit on joe was all crown and a no call.

[GrimCoconut]

Certain crews you'll get a flag others you wont. Refs are humans too... i just wish they were consistent. Because the burfict hit on joe was all crown and a no call.

Oh, I agree. That hit on Joe deserved to be a penalty but Joe just gets the benefit of the doubt because he's tough as nails. Any other QB, and they would have called the penalty. But because Joe doesn't whine about it like others, he gets no call. It makes me mad to be honest. I also feel like the referees just don't call things well either. It's almost like if they feel there's no harm there's no foul. I definitely sense some bias in their decision-making, and I am not one to typically call out the referees on this. I rarely ever blame referees but I do think they hold some bias against us, at least with the QB. 

[cushrinada1986]

The best thing about upshaw is that no matter where you put him on the line, he's a rock wall and can hold the line where ever he is placed. I never saw him or see him as a speed rusher of any type but in a dime or nickel package, you could put him next to Jerrigan in the middle of the line and have them push upfront and I assure you, there will be some success there. In a 3-4 he is a nightmare for TE's and just collapses his side on stretch runs. I see a big role for him going forward once Doom and Suggs ability begin to decline. 

[JoeyFlex5]

The best thing about upshaw is that no matter where you put him on the line, he's a rock wall and can hold the line where ever he is placed. I never saw him or see him as a speed rusher of any type but in a dime or nickel package, you could put him next to Jerrigan in the middle of the line and have them push upfront and I assure you, there will be some success there. In a 3-4 he is a nightmare for TE's and just collapses his side on stretch runs. I see a big role for him going forward once Doom and Suggs ability begin to decline. 

spot on analysis and thats why ive suddenly turned into an upshaw, he wasnt as solid and balanced in his first 2 years, and didnt seem to quite know much about leverage and where he needs to be and what to do with his feet etc. but he has turned some of that fat into muscle, and turned some of that recklessness into technique. 

 

there may not be an analyst in the league that will be singing upshaws praises anytime soon, but mannn his role on this defense is massive and he is an incredible asset for our team, he gives us more flexibility than any team in the league in terms of what we can line up over the RT. 

 

to those saying he needs to lose weight to be a better pass rusher, please dont, that weight is what makes him good, it allows him to play all over the place and succeed, ill sacrifice 6 sacks a year for what he does(because regardless of weight loss, he will probably never surpass 6 sacks)

[Static]

Upshaw with 5tkls , 1 sack ,  2TFL , 1 PD and a QB Hit without playing full-time. What a monster!

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Upshaw with 5tkls , 1 sack ,  2TFL , 1 PD and a QB Hit without playing full-time. What a monster!

 

Agreed. He, Jimmy, Suggs and Haloti were our 4 best defenders.

[Ravnet]

I think the Ravens will be able to keep Upshaw at a competitive rate, at least in a vacuum.

 

Obviously the trio of Pitta, Rice and Webb (maybe) being dead money will affect financial decisions, however if they're able to workaround that then Upshaw shouldn't be another Kruger or Ellerbe who is offered an exorbitant contract by another team. 

 

Upshaw doesn't put up big numbers. He will not generate tons of buzz on offseason top-free agent lists that manages to seep into the psyche of other front offices.

 

Furthermore, those who evaluate him objectively might come to the conclusion that he is a product of the system. Upshaw, as others have mentioned, is a jack of all trades, but unlike similar players like Bart Scott or whatnot I don't believe he would produce outside of a specific system or without talent around him. I don't think that franchises who are in a position to offer big contracts, like the Bills, Raiders, etc., would be confident that Upshaw could make any kind of a contribution in an otherwise weak unit. The front office for these sorts of teams are regularly grilled for splurging on guys from good teams that don't pan out, and Upshaw is a big risk.

 

In an offseason that will probably be defined by frugality, I think the Ravens can keep a veteran and known commodity at a reasonable price. 

[Bltravens]

I think the Ravens will be able to keep Upshaw at a competitive rate, at least in a vacuum.

 

Obviously the trio of Pitta, Rice and Webb (maybe) being dead money will affect financial decisions, however if they're able to workaround that then Upshaw shouldn't be another Kruger or Ellerbe who is offered an exorbitant contract by another team. 

 

Upshaw doesn't put up big numbers. He will not generate tons of buzz on offseason top-free agent lists that manages to seep into the psyche of other front offices.

 

Furthermore, those who evaluate him objectively might come to the conclusion that he is a product of the system. Upshaw, as others have mentioned, is a jack of all trades, but unlike similar players like Bart Scott or whatnot I don't believe he would produce outside of a specific system or without talent around him. I don't think that franchises who are in a position to offer big contracts, like the Bills, Raiders, etc., would be confident that Upshaw could make any kind of a contribution in an otherwise weak unit. The front office for these sorts of teams are regularly grilled for splurging on guys from good teams that don't pan out, and Upshaw is a big risk.

 

In an offseason that will probably be defined by frugality, I think the Ravens can keep a veteran and known commodity at a reasonable price. 

Also add in that no one is going to break the bank for a guy who is untested as a 3down player.  If Baltimore can't keep Upshaw Ill be really surprised.

[GrimCoconut]

I think the Ravens will be able to keep Upshaw at a competitive rate, at least in a vacuum.

 

Obviously the trio of Pitta, Rice and Webb (maybe) being dead money will affect financial decisions, however if they're able to workaround that then Upshaw shouldn't be another Kruger or Ellerbe who is offered an exorbitant contract by another team. 

 

Upshaw doesn't put up big numbers. He will not generate tons of buzz on offseason top-free agent lists that manages to seep into the psyche of other front offices.

 

Furthermore, those who evaluate him objectively might come to the conclusion that he is a product of the system. Upshaw, as others have mentioned, is a jack of all trades, but unlike similar players like Bart Scott or whatnot I don't believe he would produce outside of a specific system or without talent around him. I don't think that franchises who are in a position to offer big contracts, like the Bills, Raiders, etc., would be confident that Upshaw could make any kind of a contribution in an otherwise weak unit. The front office for these sorts of teams are regularly grilled for splurging on guys from good teams that don't pan out, and Upshaw is a big risk.

 

In an offseason that will probably be defined by frugality, I think the Ravens can keep a veteran and known commodity at a reasonable price. 

 

Also add in that no one is going to break the bank for a guy who is untested as a 3down player.  If Baltimore can't keep Upshaw Ill be really surprised.

I don't know what Upshaw could get. It's interesting, but it's reasonable to suggest Daryl Smith could be gone by then anyway, so it's not unreasonable to suggest we can afford him by using Smith's money. We'll have to see, really. 2016 is when he is a free agent, not next off-season, so we have two more years (this season included) to decide. Upshaw doesn't offer a ton as a pass rusher and that will limit his ceiling on the open market, but it only takes one. The Chargers signed JJ, who wasn't a great pass rusher either, for a deal outside our grasp. It's not impossible to think he could walk. 

 

Understand that the same year Upshaw is a free agent that Jimmy Smith, Justin Tucker, Kelechi Osemele, Marshal Yanda, Haloti Ngata, Sam Koch are all free agents. I didn't include other free agents, only significant ones at this time. That's a huge deal. That's two starting OL (both guards), a starting CB (and our best player in the secondary and possibly defense), our franchise kicker, our current punter, and an all-Pro, Pro Bowl DL. That's a LOT of possible turnover and I can't imagine we re-sign them all. I expect to re-sign Tucker next off-season while he's a RFA. Jimmy Smith could be re-signed next year as well, but that's iffy. Not sure we will bring Koch back. I'm not sure we can bring back both guards. 

 

How do you pay 7 starters who will be free agents in 2016? That's a major challenge. The players under contract currently through 2016 account for almost $101M. That leaves approx 24M if it doesn't change. I know that's unlikely but still. 

[beasy2487]

Also add in that no one is going to break the bank for a guy who is untested as a 3down player.  If Baltimore can't keep Upshaw Ill be really surprised.

 

Paul Kruger begs to differ.

[Bltravens]

Paul Kruger begs to differ.

Difference is Kruger was/is good at the 1 phase that people will overpay for, pass rushing.  Most coaches believe you can teach a guy run defense, but can't teach a guy how to be a disruptive pass rusher consistently.

[GrimCoconut]

Difference is Kruger was/is good at the 1 phase that people will overpay for, pass rushing.  Most coaches believe you can teach a guy run defense, but can't teach a guy how to be a disruptive pass rusher consistently.

Jarrett Johnson wasn't that good at pass rush but he got a deal for nearly $5M/annual. That was back in 2012, too. That's probably a deal closer to $6M now with the cap inflation taken into account. 

[beasy2487]

Difference is Kruger was/is good at the 1 phase that people will overpay for, pass rushing. Most coaches believe you can teach a guy run defense, but can't teach a guy how to be a disruptive pass rusher consistently.

Not really. Paul Kruger wasn't "consistent" as a pass rusher until his contract year and, even then, if we don't make that playoff run he doesn't make some of the splash plays that got him his payday. Prior to that he had a few good games but none before Suggs Lite came back from injury. Compound that with the fact that he never showed he could do anything else as an OLB beyond his pick against the Steelers his rookie year, and you have a totally feasible scenario where Upshaw could play himself into a payday. Say he puts up 6 or 7 sacks this year, remains stout on the edge, forces a couple fumbles and has some PDs...with that kind of line(which is exactly what we want him to do), a follow up year, and a couple playoff appearances for the defense he could easily price himself out for us.

That said, I think it's premature to talk about how much he's going to cost because he's just entering the phase of his rookie contract where he makes his case. Let's wait and see what he does this season.

[Bltravens]

Jarrett Johnson wasn't that good at pass rush but he got a deal for nearly $5M/annual. That was back in 2012, too. That's probably a deal closer to $6M now with the cap inflation taken into account. 

That deal still astounds me, with half of it guaranteed no less.  SD must have really needed LB help and run D help.  Can't say I'd be paying JJ that if I was a GM.

 

Not really. Paul Kruger wasn't "consistent" as a pass rusher until his contract year and, even then, if we don't make that playoff run he doesn't make some of the splash plays that got him his payday. Prior to that he had a few good games but none before Suggs Lite came back from injury. Compound that with the fact that he never showed he could do anything else as an OLB beyond his pick against the Steelers his rookie year, and you have a totally feasible scenario where Upshaw could play himself into a payday. Say he puts up 6 or 7 sacks this year, remains stout on the edge, forces a couple fumbles and has some PDs...with that kind of line(which is exactly what we want him to do), a follow up year, and a couple playoff appearances for the defense he could easily price himself out for us.

That said, I think it's premature to talk about how much he's going to cost because he's just entering the phase of his rookie contract where he makes his case. Let's wait and see what he does this season.

Well of course if he puts up 6 or 7 that shows he has potential to become a 3 down LB and then all bets are off.  Kruger, even in 2011 and 2010 was still a pass rusher who generated pressures.  He had shown for more than a few years he had a knack at pass rushing.  My original point was teams will pay more for a pass rusher who cant run stop than they will for a run stopper who can't pass rusher as a 34 OLB.

[beasy2487]

That deal still astounds me, with half of it guaranteed no less.  SD must have really needed LB help and run D help.  Can't say I'd be paying JJ that if I was a GM.

 

Well of course if he puts up 6 or 7 that shows he has potential to become a 3 down LB and then all bets are off.  Kruger, even in 2011 and 2010 was still a pass rusher who generated pressures.  He had shown for more than a few years he had a knack at pass rushing.  My original point was teams will pay more for a pass rusher who cant run stop than they will for a run stopper who can't pass rusher as a 34 OLB.

 

Yea I gotcha. All I'm saying is we're talking about a 3rd year player going into the 4th game of the season. Could be (and hopefully is) a breakout year.

[CalvinSmoke]

Pay the man. This is what happens when he shows up in shape

[Bltravens]

Yea I gotcha. All I'm saying is we're talking about a 3rd year player going into the 4th game of the season. Could be (and hopefully is) a breakout year.

I would love that he does and we hold on to him so we have a young 3down LB.  He's a menace in rush D already.

[CalvinSmoke]

You ever seen a group of guys together, you've got some flashy guys in the front and back, leader in the middle and then the strong quiet one in there that doesn't say much but no one will dare mess with... Yea that's Upshaw, very physically imposing dirty work kinda player.

[gabefergy]

Yeah, we already play a 4-3 under. And out of that look, we already use Upshaw the way team use a 4-3 sam.

Read an article posted here that went in depth with our scheme. We basically have a 3-4 alignment with 4-3 responsibilities, except we sometimes ask the nose to two gap. Fairly complex.

I think it's actually the other way around, although I have seen the front 4 use different gap responsibilities. We mostly line up in a 4-3 UNDER look, with Ngata playing the 3T, but instead of penetrating upfield he normally 2 gaps the guard.

[Ravens1991]

Seeing Upshaw take Richardson down in space makes me feel better if/when Spagnuolo takes over as  DC.

 

[gabefergy]

I guess he has made the leap from a below average role player to an average role player.

 

Unfortunately he still can't rush the passer and he's not always good in space.

 

[izvoodoo]

Apart from the injuries, if you switch KO and Upshaw's draft position it looks about right.

[gabefergy]

The Ravens don't even try to use him as a pass-rusher at this point. Only 18 pass-rush snaps for a 3-4 OLB providing 1 hurry. That's atrocious.

[1/28/01]

Suggs likely gets beat on that play as well. Tough open field tackle for an OLB.

[gabefergy]

Suggs likely gets beat on that play as well. Tough open field tackle for an OLB.

Maybe, maybe not. It's not like Trent Richardson is a very elusive RB. I just find it amusing that Upshaw garnered praise for his tackling ability in the open field, when he has this embarrassing whiff a few plays later.

[izvoodoo]

Maybe, maybe not. It's not like Trent Richardson is a very elusive RB. I just find it amusing that Upshaw garnered praise for his tackling ability in the open field, when he has this embarrassing whiff a few plays later.

They all can't be CJ Mosley.