Merged: Ray Rice Released and Suspended

[K-Dog]

An anonymous source close to rmcjacket23 told me personally that rmcjacket23 wears steelers underoos, and sleeps with a Justin Beiber night light.  I consider this source very trustworthy and reliable.

 

See how easy that was ?

Imagine if I actually knew you and could work something up that is in the ball park of being truth.

 

With zero accountability its all to easy, thats all I am saying.

 

If there is no one to hold accountable, you have nothing to put any stock in.

[balfan23]

Too much being said between posters to quote anything ... In my mind, here are the biggest issues with ESPN, their OTL report and all of what they've been saying since Steve's rebuttal:

 

Issue #1 Stating interpretation and assumed motive (aka "spin") as fact. 2 Key examples:

 

1) The "hush money" claim. This was apparently interpretation from a source "close to Rice". How an anonymous source giving an opinion on how he (or how he thinks Ray) interpreted a text is NOT fact. I thought Steve did a great job of shooting down that assumption with the use of simple logic. ESPNs follow-up did not mention this logical statement, but only pulled an out of context quote, where Steve said "I have no reaction to my text" ... to make him sound evasive.

 

2) Cass' recommendation to Rice's attorney to get him into a program was purely motivated by the benefit that it would keep the tape from going public. Then, by extension, implies "cover up". I don't remember if Steve addressed this one, but I'm pretty sure there are other benefits ... such as not getting a felony conviction and staying out of prison. That is a pretty good benefit in its own right. And besides, does Rice's attorney really need legal advice from a football guy? I'm pretty sure he was able to work out on his own that getting his client into a program was a worthy goal without Cass' expert legal advice. 

 

Issue #2 Off the cuff commentary from on-air personalities

 

It is clear that every show, the on air personalities are given a framework to use in which to discuss this matter and put ESPN in the best light possible, by putting the Ravens in the worst light possible. This involves continuing to state the above mentioned interpretations as fact, particularly the "hush money" concept. Beyond that, I've heard it stated at least once (Stink) saying that, "We know the Ravens saw that film before it was made public". Even ESPN had needed to backtrack officially on that one, but Stink didn't get the memo. No matter ... just keep saying this stuff on air and keep drilling it into the skulls of the viewers and it won't matter what is or what is not actual fact - if ESPN repeats it enough then it becomes fact.

 

Issue #3 Credibility of "anonymous sources"

 

It is understandable that investigations will need anonymous sources. Sometimes, it is the only way you can get someone to come forward, for fear or reprisal. However, their report contained information that I just do not see how they could have found an anonymous source who would know it. The main example is, what Harbaugh was recommending, vs. what Ozzie or Steve wanted. Who is going to know this? Unless you think John was walking around the halls yelling that we need to cut this guy, then how in the world are you finding someone in the organization that would know these details? That has got to be inner sanctum stuff. This starts feeling like office rumor ("a little birdy told me ...") then rumor is relayed to press and viola - fact. 

 

To me, it all adds up to a shabby approach. ESPN can tell me how credible the authors of this story are (Don Van Natta worked at the NY Times ... ooh, OK ... that settles it), but it still smells like a spun up tale to meet the agenda that is to smear as many big dogs as possible to prove the power of the ESPN franchise. 

 

In the end - media covers for media. Very few outlets are giving any credence to Bisciotti's standing up for himself. All keep saying that he's just digging the hole he's in even deeper. None are willing to call into question their colleagues approach to reporting ... because they all do it when it suits them. 

[TheRavenouseD2008]

The problem is that if these people are "insiders"....  you don't think they will find out who said these things... especially if they aren't true.  And, yes, Ravensdfan....  allegedly should have been all over that report....  NOTHING has been substantiated... and for the remainder of the ESPN staff to stand behind this report as fact, and stand behind it's author could be VERY detrimental to ESPN itself.  It's already lost a ton of it's credibility in a number of cases.....  There's a reason that people state the media is biased.

 

They want heads...  just like I said earlier....  "You (NFL and the Ravens) didn't react the way that we wanted you to, so we are going to come after you like a wolf after sheep."  They "want a head".  They "want somebody fired"....  They believe this is some HUGE conspiracy and a coverup beyond anything in Sports History... 

 

There is this part of me that just doesn't give a crap anymore...  Then there is this part of me that thinks "how dare you"...  They believe they are above it all.....  Meanwhile, they employ guys like Cris Carter, and other guys with a history...  I love to listen to Warren Sapp talk about it...  He was another with a history of DV.  Hypocrites, all of them.... 

 

Let ESPN do their thing...

I hate to say it I kinda agree ...... ESPN is now the TUMBLR of sports reporting world in my view........ what next an anita sarkesian sports show  about why the nfl should be banned for no female players......

[rmcjacket23]

An anonymous source close to rmcjacket23 told me personally that rmcjacket23 wears steelers underoos, and sleeps with a Justin Beiber night light.  I consider this source very trustworthy and reliable.

 

See how easy that was ?

Imagine if I actually knew you and could work something up that is in the ball park of being truth.

 

With zero accountability its all to easy, thats all I am saying.

 

If there is no one to hold accountable, you have nothing to put any stock in.

What makes you think anybody is held accountable even if they have their name on it?

 

Reporters, analysts, etc. say things that they think are truthful and end up being non-truthful on almost a daily basis... are they ever actually held accountable for it? In this day and age, accountability in the media basically doesn't exist, which then begs the question... whats even the point of naming a source?

[rmcjacket23]

not really........there's a thing called integrity. And whether it's just perception or otherwise, I'm sure Steve values his and his team's integrity much more than any loss that may occur to "anonymous sources" providing misinformation. 

That's great, except the public doesn't care one bit about integrity... they just pretend like they do.

 

You're either on the Ravens side or your not. If your not, you've already decided that the integrity of the Ravens is shattered. Bischotti could give $100M of his own money to domestic violence support groups, and nobody would change their opinion of him.

 

If there's one thing that people should have learned about integrity in this current climate of the world, its that integrity takes 1 second to lose and several lifetimes to get back.

 

Ray Lewis has done more for football and frankly for the Ravens than anybody else in history. He's universally respected by coaches, peers, and even the fans of his team. If you took a nationwide poll of whether or not Ray Lewis has integrity, you would find OVERWHELMINGLY that people don't think he does.

 

If I were a betting man, I'd say Bischotti cares about his perceived integrity ONLY from people he chooses to care about. That probably includes the people that know him best, the people that he employees and works with, and probably the fanbase. Beyond that... his perceived integrity probably means very little to him. I doubt he cares if KVV thinks he has integrity, because it likely has no impact on his life.

[MTRavensFan]

I would disagree here.

 

He made it clear that when they questioned his competence he let it slide, but now that they've questioned his integrity, he felt the need to speak up. He was obviosly pretty pissed off  about it.

[K-Dog]

What makes you think anybody is held accountable even if they have their name on it?

Reporters, analysts, etc. say things that they think are truthful and end up being non-truthful on almost a daily basis... are they ever actually held accountable for it? In this day and age, accountability in the media basically doesn't exist, which then begs the question... whats even the point of naming a source?

That wasnt the point of my post.

But to answer your question if you have no one to hold accountable you have nothing.

If you have a name you can at least verify how far in the loop they would have been, if they were even there on such and such a day. In my opinion a verifiable name has far more credibility than none.

[ratedr]

ESPN backtracking...looks like PFT may be slowly getting off the wagon.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/23/espn-addresses-text-message-mishap-in-ravens-story/

[Inqui]

ESPN backtracking...looks like PFT may be slowly getting off the wagon.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/23/espn-addresses-text-message-mishap-in-ravens-story/

I love how they put in a picture of Walter White.

 

I still think the content (and the intent) of the texts is a bit beside the point, but I'll admit that was misleading and poor form of ESPN.

[BSHU_Miami]

The Ravens should sue the ESPN. But i'm not getting into that. If you think, ESPN didn't like us before, THwy're going to hate us now, and BOY do I love it. Keep winning Baltimore, make them hate us.

[Guest I-70WestRaven]

Can we just play football and let the legal aspect play out as it will? Did we or didn't we, did Roger or didn't he? This is not fair to the players on the field now! We all know what was wrong with R.R's. behavior and he should have been thrown in jail for it, period! The season is well under way and the players on the field, who had nothing to do with this still have to play the game. If the Raven's organization screwed this up or not will be determined. Let's focus on what's right and fix what is wrong! Not just with the NFL but society as a whole! This issue is bigger than football and we must all stand up and say enough!! IMO!!

[arnie_uk]

ESPN backtracking...looks like PFT may be slowly getting off the wagon.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/23/espn-addresses-text-message-mishap-in-ravens-story/

I don't think anyone believed for a second it was a bribe. That was the one thing from the article i picked out to be too far fetched

[ravensdfan]

I love how they put in a picture of Walter White.

 

I still think the content (and the intent) of the texts is a bit beside the point, but I'll admit that was misleading and poor form of ESPN.

 

Stop defending how they handled this. It was poor journalism from the start.

 

Just to reiterate what I said here yesterday:

 

"While the contents were consistent, the clear and obvious error in the presentation invites fair questions regarding whether other aspects of the story are incorrect, especially in light of the strong (albeit belated) written response the Ravens provided to 15 different aspects of the report."

 

"The story from ESPN doesn’t disclose that ESPN asked the Ravens only to confirm that Bisciotti sent two text messages and not to confirm the contents of the text messages.  But the words selected by the authors invite a perception that the Ravens were informed of the alleged language of the text messages"

 

This was not journalism at all but a seedy attempt for clicks.

[Inqui]

Stop defending how they handled this. It was poor journalism from the start.

 

Just to reiterate what I said here yesterday:

 

"While the contents were consistent, the clear and obvious error in the presentation invites fair questions regarding whether other aspects of the story are incorrect, especially in light of the strong (albeit belated) written response the Ravens provided to 15 different aspects of the report."

 

"The story from ESPN doesn’t disclose that ESPN asked the Ravens only to confirm that Bisciotti sent two text messages and not to confirm the contents of the text messages.  But the words selected by the authors invite a perception that the Ravens were informed of the alleged language of the text messages"

 

This was not journalism at all but a seedy attempt for clicks.

Where did I defend them on that count? I said ESPN was being misleading by presenting the texts like that. 

 

And I agreed that they should have gone back to the Ravens for the whole thing. You won't find any arguments from me there either.

 

But the rest is essentially a case of he said/she said/they said/we said.

[ratedr]

I love how they put in a picture of Walter White.

I still think the content (and the intent) of the texts is a bit beside the point, but I'll admit that was misleading and poor form of ESPN.

I disagree. The insinuation was that the job offer was hush money for the supposed "cover up." It was a central part of the story.

What annoys me is that now that Bisciotti has obliterated this report ESPN will be able to just go on and act like nothing happened. The irony of raking the Ravens over the coals for not getting "more information" when they didn't do the same for their supposed bombshell story.

[A Fish Called Yanda]

More info on ESPN's incorrect accusations in the OTL report.  What annoys me is it is easy for Bisciotti to prove that he wasn't trying to bribe Rice since he put the exact content of the text messages out for the public to see.  What's not easy is for the Ravens to disprove the other claims by "unnamed sources" when they don't have concrete evidence.  This is shoddy reporting and ESPN should have checked their facts before publishing damaging information that they could not prove was correct.  The Ravens image is irreparably damaged and they have little to no recourse to undo ESPN's crack job of reporting.

[A Fish Called Yanda]

ESPN backtracking...looks like PFT may be slowly getting off the wagon.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/23/espn-addresses-text-message-mishap-in-ravens-story/

 

Reading the comments on that story is very heartening.  Finally people are questioning the veracity of the story like they should have been when it originally came out using only unnamed sources "close to Ray Rice".  This is what happens when you only use one side to put together a story.

 

ESPN has egg on its face because the Ravens came out full force and directly responded to the main accusations of story.  This is exactly what the Ravens needed to do - putting out some blanket statement would not have changed anyone's minds.

[balfan23]

Reading the comments on that story is very heartening.  Finally people are questioning the veracity of the story like they should have been when it originally came out using only unnamed sources "close to Ray Rice".  This is what happens when you only use one side to put together a story.

 

ESPN has egg on its face because the Ravens came out full force and directly responded to the main accusations of story.  This is exactly what the Ravens needed to do - putting out some blanket statement would not have changed anyone's minds.

Aside from the gaffes in the original article released last Friday, what may be worse was their rebuttal to the rebuttal article that was posted on ESPN. That post actually was initiated during the presser and kept morphing as the presser continued. That post was filled with out of context clips to further discredit Bisciotti's response. 

 

Not the least of those surrounded the text message. Not only did they not, at that time, admit misquoting the text - they did not include Bisciotti's logical argument against the concept of "hush money" and all they did was pull a single quote "I have no reaction to my own texts" ... as a the final line of the article, totally without context in order to make him sound stupid or appear to be evasive to the stupid question. 

 

Note now that there is no admission of error on the part of ESPN and the whole affair - which has for 2 solid weeks had a collection of Rice related articles accessible from the front page or at least from the NFL home page - is not to be seen at the moment. 

[balfan23]

At this point, nothing really to do but quietly mount evidence of ESPNs mishandling of the story as we wait for the official report. Aside from articles, I think we'll have staff reviewing any tape of aired ESPN broadcasts, as numerous falsehoods and inconsistencies have been blurted out off the cuff by their on-air personnel.

 

Once the official report is released, we'll weigh options - but I will assume the most sensible course of action will be to let it die. While there is certainly some appeal in bringing ESPNs feet to the fire on their handling of the matter, if we initiate this - it will appear petty and, after all, we've publicly admitted having erred in the matter. 

[A Fish Called Yanda]

Aside from the gaffes in the original article released last Friday, what may be worse was their rebuttal to the rebuttal article that was posted on ESPN. That post actually was initiated during the presser and kept morphing as the presser continued. That post was filled with out of context clips to further discredit Bisciotti's response. 

 

Not the least of those surrounded the text message. Not only did they not, at that time, admit misquoting the text - they did not include Bisciotti's logical argument against the concept of "hush money" and all they did was pull a single quote "I have no reaction to my own texts" ... as a the final line of the article, totally without context in order to make him sound stupid or appear to be evasive to the stupid question. 

 

Note now that there is no admission of error on the part of ESPN and the whole affair - which has for 2 solid weeks had a collection of Rice related articles accessible from the front page or at least from the NFL home page - is not to be seen at the moment. 

 

I also cannot count on my hands and feet the number of times ESPN has run the section of video of Bisciotti saying he didn't care enough to see the video tape.  Nothing from the statement right after that of him saying that there was no excuse for him or the Ravens to not try their hardest to view the tape, that it was a huge mistake and it is impossible to undo.

 

Headline: "Ravens Owner Doesn't Care About Domestic Violence"

[A Fish Called Yanda]

At this point, nothing really to do but quietly mount evidence of ESPNs mishandling of the story as we wait for the official report. Aside from articles, I think we'll have staff reviewing any tape of aired ESPN broadcasts, as numerous falsehoods and inconsistencies have been blurted out off the cuff by their on-air personnel.

 

Once the official report is released, we'll weigh options - but I will assume the most sensible course of action will be to let it die. While there is certainly some appeal in bringing ESPNs feet to the fire on their handling of the matter, if we initiate this - it will appear petty and, after all, we've publicly admitted having erred in the matter. 

 

First step: Lets not have the Ravens PR team/website livetweet anything to do with this story.  That's been a disaster from the get-go.

[ratedr]

Not a huge fan of PFT but good on them for being pretty much the only major media outlet to point out the fake texts.

 

At this point the team will let it die. ESPN isn't talking about it much because they know their story has holes.

[Tank 92]

That's great, except the public doesn't care one bit about integrity... they just pretend like they do.

 

You're either on the Ravens side or your not. If your not, you've already decided that the integrity of the Ravens is shattered. Bischotti could give $100M of his own money to domestic violence support groups, and nobody would change their opinion of him.

 

If there's one thing that people should have learned about integrity in this current climate of the world, its that integrity takes 1 second to lose and several lifetimes to get back.

 

Ray Lewis has done more for football and frankly for the Ravens than anybody else in history. He's universally respected by coaches, peers, and even the fans of his team. If you took a nationwide poll of whether or not Ray Lewis has integrity, you would find OVERWHELMINGLY that people don't think he does.

 

If I were a betting man, I'd say Bischotti cares about his perceived integrity ONLY from people he chooses to care about. That probably includes the people that know him best, the people that he employees and works with, and probably the fanbase. Beyond that... his perceived integrity probably means very little to him. I doubt he cares if KVV thinks he has integrity, because it likely has no impact on his life.

 

 

curious that you bring up Ray Lewis. What you say is true, his screw up has marked the Ravens as thugs to football fans outside of Bmore. Steve Biscotti and his org have worked extremely hard to try to improve that image. It's naive to think that questioning his and his management team's integrity doesn't piss him off.  

[rmcjacket23]

curious that you bring up Ray Lewis. What you say is true, his screw up has marked the Ravens as thugs to football fans outside of Bmore. Steve Biscotti and his org have worked extremely hard to try to improve that image. It's naive to think that questioning his and his management team's integrity doesn't piss him off.

Well... you tell me. Did he give the impression in that press conference of a man who is that pissed off about this?

I'll agree that he most likely agreed to do the press conference mostly because he felt like his and the organizations integrity/character was in question, but he didn't strike me as a person who was truly that pissed off about it based on the tone and calmness he had during that interview.

In fact, and I can't remember specifically when it was, there was a point in the interview where I felt like his demeanor shifted from a person that was apologetic and sympathetic to the public outcry to a person who simply had enough of it. Somewhere in the middle or closer towards the end, I got the feeling that Steve, without saying it directly, decided in his mind that he was tired of talking about it and straight up didn't give a [crap] anymore.

There was a point where I can picture Steve in his head saying "we screwed up, we know it, I acknowledge it, I'm sorry about it, now move on. I'm not firing anybody, I'm not resigning, because I'm the boss, because I say so, and there's nothing you people can do about it". That's kind of what I feel like he must have been thinking for at least the last couple minutes of the PC.

And to me, that's not a bad thing. In fact, if I were a rich owner like him, I'd probably say it out loud just to see how many people would get the hint.

Like he said, if the owners actually forced him to sell (and he knows for certain that they won't), he would just sell. As I recall, he paid about $650M for the team, and this team would EASILY sell for twice that or more. While I have no doubt he'd love to continue owning it, he also doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who is going to throw a temper tantrum in the media about it.

[Tank 92]

Well... you tell me. Did he give the impression in that press conference of a man who is that pissed off about this?

I'll agree that he most likely agreed to do the press conference mostly because he felt like his and the organizations integrity/character was in question, but he didn't strike me as a person who was truly that pissed off about it based on the tone and calmness he had during that interview.

In fact, and I can't remember specifically when it was, there was a point in the interview where I felt like his demeanor shifted from a person that was apologetic and sympathetic to the public outcry to a person who simply had enough of it. Somewhere in the middle or closer towards the end, I got the feeling that Steve, without saying it directly, decided in his mind that he was tired of talking about it and straight up didn't give a [crap] anymore.

There was a point where I can picture Steve in his head saying "we screwed up, we know it, I acknowledge it, I'm sorry about it, now move on. I'm not firing anybody, I'm not resigning, because I'm the boss, because I say so, and there's nothing you people can do about it". That's kind of what I feel like he must have been thinking for at least the last couple minutes of the PC.

And to me, that's not a bad thing. In fact, if I were a rich owner like him, I'd probably say it out loud just to see how many people would get the hint.

Like he said, if the owners actually forced him to sell (and he knows for certain that they won't), he would just sell. As I recall, he paid about $650M for the team, and this team would EASILY sell for twice that or more. While I have no doubt he'd love to continue owning it, he also doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who is going to throw a temper tantrum in the media about it.

Sure he was pissed off! It was obvious. He's obviously not a petulant buffoon that's going throw a temper tantrum on national TV. He's an emotionally intelligent 54 year old that knows how to express anger in a passive manner. He handled that press conference masterfully.

[1/28/01]

Die, thread. Die!! (Yes, I get the irony since I just posted...but only since it was at the top).

Please, everyone, let this thread slide into obscurity and die!

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Just the fact the that a neutral arbitrator has been selected gives a positive to this on-going process. It has never happened before in NFL history.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/ravens/2014/09/29/nfl-agrees-to-neutral-arbitration-in-ray-rice-appeal/16449659/

 

I am hopefully optimistic that these measures of procedure and process will play a very important role in how the league deals with these problems going forward. As passing fans, we could want nothing more than this incident to be over and done with; but as fans with a genuine love for the game and overall belief in fairness and process, this is a step forward. Hopefully, we never have to step-backwards. Transparency has always been a healing thing and we should never run from it, but embrace it. No fear. Everything will come to light.

 

This is RavensNation not OstrichNation. We can face whatever comes our way and still overcome it.

 

GO Ravens! Beat that Indie team! (Just don't consider them the Colts).

[1/28/01]

Ugh...

[The Raven]

Let.

 

It. 

 

Die.

[BSHU_Miami]

Why???????????