Merged: Ray Rice Released and Suspended

[ravensdfan]

I've said from the beginning that it was too pro-Rice to be reliable. I didn't need Bisciotti to tell me that.

 

yeah me as well but some here condemned the organization, called for resignations and firings and touted the "reliability" of anonymous sources. 

 

Now that it has been rebutted, and pretty thoroughly they still want to imply that Bisciotti is lying. It would be comical if not such a sad commentary on how gullible some are to social media.

[ravensdfan]

This is only sort of true. They didn't say Bisciotti offered the job though. They said that Rice interpreted it as a bribe. That's the thing that you're missing.

(Insult removed)

And how was it not investigative? Twenty sources from the team, the NFL, the NFLPA, and the NJ Attorney's office? These guys have a case for the most influential investigative piece of the year if they have evidence to back it up.

Which they don't or they'd be producing it. Do you really think Bisciotti is going to risk the team by lying? They have zero evidence or we'd have seen it by now. Which proves they had zero concrete evidence when they put out that piece of trash journalism.

That is NOT how investigative journalism works. They have zero case for most influential piece of the year because it has been rebutted practically completely and everyone involved claims it is incorrect. Unless you just mean what they can make people believe without any proof. Then yeah, perhaps it was influential.

An investigative journalist may spend months or years researching and preparing a report. Precisely because they can't afford to be wrong due to the nature of their claims. They did not even attempt to vet one iota of false information. That is not investigative journalism.

A true investigative journalist uses more tools than only anonymous sources. They did not do that at all.

[GrimCoconut]

I'm not sure how Rice implied that the Ravens were bribing him. I read the report the Ravens put out and that doesn't sound like a bribe to me. Sounds like two people who really care for each other having an emotional moment. 

 

Sounds like Rice started talking about it to others and they started suggesting that Biscotti was bribing him and then twisted his mind if that's the case. Friends can do that, especially in a dark time. 

[Ravenseconbeast]

Im going to reiterate again.

 

Where is the AP, RAY MCDONALD, JON DWYER STORY???

Ridiculous!

[The Raven]

Which they don't or they'd be producing it. Do you really think Bisciotti is going to risk the team by lying? They have zero evidence or we'd have seen it by now. Which proves they had zero concrete evidence when they put out that piece of trash journalism.

 

That is NOT how investigative journalism works. They have zero case for most influential piece of the year because it has been rebutted practically completely and everyone involved claims it is incorrect. Unless you just mean what they can make people believe without any proof. Then yeah, perhaps it was influential.

 

I don't think you comprehend the concept of anonymity in journalism. Go take a media class before you try to argue the topic with me. This is how investigative reporting works. I've been to a conference for investigative reporting. I kinda know what I'm talking about.

 

I do think Bisciotti is telling the truth. I think that the problem lies in the misunderstanding of some sources or intentional lies by sources. Can't tell which, but I suspect that it's more about misunderstanding than lying. However, I will say that the NJ sources probably lied to cover their own rear. 

 

On another note, I find it interesting that both Bisciotti and Cass noted that they were told Rice struck Janay with an open hand. Perhaps Darren Sanders (Ravens head of security) was lied to by the NJ attorney office. 

[ravensdfan]

I don't think you comprehend the concept of anonymity in journalism. Go take a media class before you try to argue the topic with me. This is how investigative reporting works. I've been to a conference for investigative reporting. I kinda know what I'm talking about.

 

I do think Bisciotti is telling the truth. I think that the problem lies in the misunderstanding of some sources or intentional lies by sources. Can't tell which, but I suspect that it's more about misunderstanding than lying. However, I will say that the NJ sources probably lied to cover their own rear. 

 

On another note, I find it interesting that both Bisciotti and Cass noted that they were told Rice struck Janay with an open hand. Perhaps Darren Sanders (Ravens head of security) was lied to by the NJ attorney office. 

 

Read the rest of it. I don't think you understand the concept of investigative journalism. They do no rely solely ever on anonymous sources. You can claim all the classes you like, I have an actual degree English major with a minor in journalism. That is not good journalism at all. You NEVER rely solely on anonymous sources that you can not back-up with any other proof.

 

The written response by the team explains about the NJ officer and what he told Sanders. I think it says he couldn't tell if it was a slap or a punch, keeping in mind he actually saw the unedited version of the tape, and that law enforcement thought a pretrial intervention was appropriate.

[Inqui]

Im going to reiterate again.

 

Where is the AP, RAY MCDONALD, JON DWYER STORY???

Ridiculous!

Those stories will pick up again when there are new developments. Whether or not the FO did anything sketchy, the way this has been handled by everyone has kinda made it the story that keeps on giving.

[The Raven]

Read the rest of it. I don't think you understand the concept of investigative journalism. They do no rely solely ever on anonymous sources. You can claim all the classes you like, I have an actual degree English major with a minor in journalism. That is not good journalism at all. You NEVER rely solely on anonymous sources that you can not back-up with any other proof.

 

The written response by the team explains about the NJ officer and what he told Sanders. I think it says he couldn't tell if it was a slap or a punch, keeping in mind he actually saw the unedited version of the tape, and that law enforcement thought a pretrial intervention was appropriate.

 

We'll agree to disagree on that first one. I heard differently at the NICAR 2014 conference and from several professionals, but I'll leave you to your opinions. Let me ask though, what "tools" could be used in this case? I'm curious. 

 

Yes, I think the NJ Attorney office spread misinformation here, and that caused all the hooplah.

[rmcjacket23]

I'm not sure how Rice implied that the Ravens were bribing him. I read the report the Ravens put out and that doesn't sound like a bribe to me. Sounds like two people who really care for each other having an emotional moment. 

 

Sounds like Rice started talking about it to others and they started suggesting that Biscotti was bribing him and then twisted his mind if that's the case. Friends can do that, especially in a dark time. 

Thats all it was... implied. That was most of the problem I had with the article... the writer turned every piece of "fact" he had and twisted it to imply that Bischotti was doing something sketchy.

When he reported on the texts Bischotti sent (which he acknowledged sending), he said that Rice appeared unhappy about it, but it was the reporter, not Rice, that suggested that the text was a method of "hush money". That's just an interpretation of the facts, not actually just reporting facts.

 

Much like when he reported that Bischotti was playing golf with Goodell, he implied somehow that the golf outing was a method for Bischotti to convince Goodell for leniency.

 

I don't really have a ton of issues per say with the actual "facts" that the article stated, because Bischotti didn't really deny that some of those things didn't happen. My issue was with how the report seemed to make implications based on events that frankly can't be proved and may very well be invalid to begin with.

[ravensdfan]

We'll agree to disagree on that first one. I heard differently at the NICAR 2014 conference and from several professionals, but I'll leave you to your opinions. Let me ask though, what "tools" could be used in this case? I'm curious. 

 

Yes, I think the NJ Attorney office spread misinformation here, and that caused all the hooplah.

 

My opinion has a degree on the wall. Not some "conference workshops".

[K-Dog]

Co-author of the ESPN article. In the time he's not blinking, he's backtracking

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=11571342

Van Natta's tie is Patriots colors.......

Just sayin'

[Inqui]

We'll agree to disagree on that first one. I heard differently at the NICAR 2014 conference and from several professionals, but I'll leave you to your opinions. Let me ask though, what "tools" could be used in this case? I'm curious. 

 

Yes, I think the NJ Attorney office spread misinformation here, and that caused all the hooplah.

What bugged me the most about it was not going back to the team for a right of reply or anything to that effect.

[rmcjacket23]

Im going to reiterate again.

 

Where is the AP, RAY MCDONALD, JON DWYER STORY???

Ridiculous!

Well, there really shouldn't be any stories on those.

Ray McDonald is the only one who is still playing. AP was suspended, reinstated, and suspended indefinitely within two weeks of the event becoming public, and Dwyer had the same thing.

 

The reason its not a story is because those teams essentially addressed (although the Vikings back-tracked) the situation in a pretty quick manner. This Rice story is a story because nobody, and I mean nobody, acted on the incident for an extended period of time. Everybody just sat around and did nothing (apparently literally).

[Inqui]

Thats all it was... implied. That was most of the problem I had with the article... the writer turned every piece of "fact" he had and twisted it to imply that Bischotti was doing something sketchy.

When he reported on the texts Bischotti sent (which he acknowledged sending), he said that Rice appeared unhappy about it, but it was the reporter, not Rice, that suggested that the text was a method of "hush money". That's just an interpretation of the facts, not actually just reporting facts.

I felt it was pretty clear the bribe stuff was just Rice's perception, but what do I know.

[codizzle]

Been trying to stay away from this for awhile now but NOW steve decides to handle the backlash from "new info" in this case the espn story

Now that it's already been a national story.. Well done smh

[1/28/01]

I have zero degrees. I cant argue with anyone!

[MTRavensFan]

We'll agree to disagree on that first one. I heard differently at the NICAR 2014 conference and from several professionals, but I'll leave you to your opinions. Let me ask though, what "tools" could be used in this case? I'm curious. 

 

Yes, I think the NJ Attorney office spread misinformation here, and that caused all the hooplah.

More likely, it was just one person's interpretation of what they saw, mistaken or not.

 

 I know I'm old, and my eyesight ain't what it used to be, but as blurry and choppy as that video is, I can't tell if the hand is open or closed. If you think you can, or that it really makes a difference, well, then, more power to ya.

 

Really splitting hairs here, guys.

Bottom line, we can talk about DV all we want, but that doesn't prepare us for the violence of the visual. Try living through it.

[codizzle]

Oh and after browsing last few pages very briefly..

I'm a big KVV fan.. He's a great writer and not one who writes "just for clicks"

[Inqui]

I have zero degrees. I cant argue with anyone!

Not too late to remedy that - I wonder if Ball So Hard University's still taking enrolments.

[1/28/01]

Not too late to remedy that - I wonder if Ball So Hard University's still taking enrolments.

I just ain't a smart feller.

[rmcjacket23]

I felt it was pretty clear the bribe stuff was just Rice's perception, but what do I know.

I'm not even sure it was Rice's perception, as I don't think the writer used Rice as an actual source. He used Rice's friends/agent/lawyer as sources clearly, so it could easily have been one of Rice's friends that thought it was a bribe.

 

But again, that's just reporting the interpretation of facts, not the actual facts. That might work in a court of law, but this isn't that.

[hawkprey]

Wait a tick, did Outside the Lines, the NFL-oriented drama show write a sensationalistic article that was more finger-pointing and pot-stirring than black-and-white factual? Crazy!

[Moderator 2]

Im going to reiterate again.

 

Where is the AP, RAY MCDONALD, JON DWYER STORY???

Ridiculous!

Been asking that for a week and getting angrier, Don't mess with my Faith, Family, Finances or Football team!

[MTRavensFan]

I'm not even sure it was Rice's perception, as I don't think the writer used Rice as an actual source. He used Rice's friends/agent/lawyer as sources clearly, so it could easily have been one of Rice's friends that thought it was a bribe.

 

But again, that's just reporting the interpretation of facts, not the actual facts. That might work in a court of law, but this isn't that.

might not even be admissible in a court of law.

 

But really begs the question -with this multitude of sources saying Rice felt this or thought that, or said such and such, why didn't he talk to Rice? If he's such an upstanding journalist with these great connections, why not go to THE source?

 

Because maybe Ray just wants his life back, and doesn't trust ANY of them. With good reason.

[rmcjacket23]

might not even be admissible in a court of law.

 

But really begs the question -with this multitude of sources saying Rice felt this or thought that, or said such and such, why didn't he talk to Rice? If he's such an upstanding journalist with these great connections, why not go to THE source?

 

Because maybe Ray just wants his life back, and doesn't trust ANY of them. With good reason.

Probably because it doesn't benefit Rice to talk to anybody right now. If he says anything publicly, it could hurt his chance of reinstatement and/or even hurt his chances of a team signing him in the future.

 

Him throwing his former team under the bus for basically anything right now surely wouldn't make future employers very happy, particularly since it was he and he alone that caused this whole incident.

[Inqui]

might not even be admissible in a court of law.

 

But really begs the question -with this multitude of sources saying Rice felt this or thought that, or said such and such, why didn't he talk to Rice? If he's such an upstanding journalist with these great connections, why not go to THE source?

 

Because maybe Ray just wants his life back, and doesn't trust ANY of them. With good reason.

He did. The Rices refused to comment, as the story mentioned.

[The Raven]

might not even be admissible in a court of law.

 

But really begs the question -with this multitude of sources saying Rice felt this or thought that, or said such and such, why didn't he talk to Rice? If he's such an upstanding journalist with these great connections, why not go to THE source?

 

Because maybe Ray just wants his life back, and doesn't trust ANY of them. With good reason.

 

Because the investigation had little to do with Rice and much more to do with the team's reaction. Also, I'd be willing to bet that Rice was contacted and immediately pleaded "No comment."

 

EDIT: Inqui says above the Rices did plead no comment.

[MTRavensFan]

Which was the point of my question. The Rices refused to talk to him. With good reason.

[Inqui]

Which was the point of my question. The Rices refused to talk to him. With good reason.

What was he supposed to do? Put the kybosh on the whole story?

[ravensdfan]

I have zero degrees. I cant argue with anyone!

 

Eh I never bring it up but when someone says "well I took this workshop so you just don't understand how journalism works" I felt it was worth mentioning.

 

Feel free to argue whatever you like.