Merged: Ray Rice Released and Suspended

[ravensdfan]

I'm quoting from the ESPN article

“But after Ravens offensive lineman Jah Reid was arrested March 8 in Key West, Florida, and charged with two counts of battery for his role in a bar fight, Harbaugh, according to several sources, again went to Newsome and advocated that the three Ravens players arrested in the offseason -- Rice, Reid and wide receiver Deonte Thompson -- be released. Newsome, according to what Rice was told, bristled at the recommendation, saying he was the decision-maker in the matter, not Harbaugh, and he believed in second chances. Newsome believed if the team had weathered the controversy in 2000 when All-Pro linebacker Ray Lewis was charged in a double homicide after a Super Bowl party in Atlanta, and had endured the criticism after running back Jamal Lewis' guilty plea to cocaine trafficking in 2004, it could certainly weather the controversy surrounding this trio of arrests, too.”

Again, as I said,  morally questionable to hold on to a felon when you build yourself as a team of character, yes, but why should the Ravens be held to a different standard when the Patriots hired Albert Haynesworth (stomped on a guy’s head unprotected with cleats), when the 49ers still have Ray McDonald on the team (who gave his wife bruises on her neck and arms), when the Vikings still have Adrian Peterson, etc?

I also think it's ridiculous to call for Ozzie Newsome and Steve Bisciotti's firing just because they lobbied for a more lenient punishment. Let's compare some paragraphs in the article to other owners

 

“The first was the so-called Spygate investigation in 2007 after New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick and his assistants were caught using a secret videotaping system of opponents' coaches over the course of multiple seasons. Within five days, Goodell decided on the punishment, fining Belichick $500,000 and the team $250,000 and stripping New England of a first-round draft choice. But Goodell also ordered all the spying videotapes destroyed, leaving it a mystery how much the spying had helped the Patriots win games, including Super Bowls in the 2001, 2003 and 2004 seasons. Goodell is extremely close to Patriots owner Robert Kraft, and some owners and other executives felt their relationship had played a role in the punishment, which they felt could have been harsher.

[. . .]

 

Such is the assumption by some front offices that Goodell plays favorites among the owners that Woody Johnson, the Jets owner, was enraged after Goodell conducted a closed-door coin-flip to determine whether the Jets or Giants would host the first home game at the new Met Life Stadium in September 2010. The Giants won, Goodell announced, but no team representatives witnessed Goodell's coin flip. Johnson accused Goodell of rigging the coin toss for Giants owner John Mara, who Goodell counts as one of his closest confidants.

 

In 2010, Goodell suspended Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger for six games under the league's personal conduct policy after he was accused -- though not arrested or charged -- with sexually assaulting a college student after a night of drinking in a bar in Milledgeville, Ga. Goodell, however, reduced Roethlisberger's suspension to four games, writing in a letter to the Super Bowl-winning quarterback he could see Roethlisberger was "committed to making better decisions." Steelers co-owner Art Rooney II accompanied Roethlisberger to his meeting with Goodell, and told ESPN he had been in contact with Goodell throughout the four-month process.”

So, why are the Ravens being singled out because the owner has a favorable relationship with Goodell? Should we demand for Kraft and Rooney's (who's doing the investigation, mind you) resignations?

 

 

I shortened the post a bit even though it was all awesome. Welcome to the Boards!

 

...and plus a million for that post.

[WarofTheWalshy]

I think the owners were greatly naive in trying to emulate their past actions when players commit transgressions and thinking it wouldn't be as outrageous in terms of public reaction, but I don't think that suggests malevolent, cynical intent to downplay domestic violence as much as it suggests that NFL players do not have the greatest moral character that we hold themselves up to when compared to us. I think it suggests a deficit in business character and protocol in terms of having violent players on your team, but given that football is violent, don't you think it's inevitable?

It's not like the Ravens didn't ask for Rice not to punished, they called for a two-game suspension. If they bargained for Rice not to be suspended, then I think calls for resignation would be justified. But to really suggests, based on media reaction, that the Ravens are the most corrupt, vile organization for doing something that every team has done in terms of having felons on their rosters is pure hypocrisy. Are we going to start calling the Seahawks a morally defunct organization because they still have Marshawn Lynch who pleaded guilty to a hit and run when he struck a woman and refused to stop? Are the Seahawks down-playing vehicular aggression because they like to play up Lynch's accomplishments?

[GrimCoconut]

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2014/09/20/the-baltimore-ravens-may-become-the-nfls-los-angeles-clippers/&sa=U&ei=6uUdVM-QO8eRyATuq4HYCw&ved=0CBAQqQIwAA&sig2=YYWnhiM1GqUX3_5Y9Rmp0A&usg=AFQjCNELdWIduDe-qR0UKZQvdS4YQJ1iSg

It just keeps getting better!

Could Bisciotti be forced to sell the team??

Not sure how this report reveals anything different other than one writer's speculation. It's all conjecture. It rehashes what the other report already revealed. I think Forbes is wrong here. Really a baseless assumption in my opinion. The NFL owners are much tighter than the NBA.

At this point if everything is true, that wouldn't surprise me. Hopefully Harbs sticks around but we could see a big shake up in the FO

uhh, no. Just no.

Bisciotti and Sterling aren't comparable. Sterling had the support of NOBODY. Highly doubt people within the organization want Bisciotti to sell. Only the media wants it.

Thank you.P

[52520Andrew]

uhh, no. Just no.

 

I don't know I would be surprised if no one gets fired honestly or steps down if this is all true. You underestimate the power the media has

[Inqui]

I don't know I would be surprised if no one gets fired honestly or steps down if this is all true. You underestimate the power the media has

I don't think it goes further than Cass, if it gets that far at all.

[gabefergy]

I think the owners were greatly naive in trying to emulate their past actions when players commit transgressions and thinking it wouldn't be as outrageous in terms of public reaction, but I don't think that suggests malevolent, cynical intent to downplay domestic violence as much as it suggests that NFL players do not have the greatest moral character that we hold themselves up to when compared to us. I think it suggests a deficit in business character and protocol in terms of having violent players on your team, but given that football is violent, don't you think it's inevitable?

It's not like the Ravens didn't ask for Rice not to punished, they called for a two-game suspension. If they bargained for Rice not to be suspended, then I think calls for resignation would be justified. But to really suggests, based on media reaction, that the Ravens are the most corrupt, vile organization for doing something that every team has done in terms of having felons on their rosters is pure hypocrisy. Are we going to start calling the Seahawks a morally defunct organization because they still have Marshawn Lynch who pleaded guilty to a hit and run when he struck a woman and refused to stop? Are the Seahawks down-playing vehicular aggression because they like to play up Lynch's accomplishments?

A two game suspension is a slap on the wrist. I don't see any difference between attempting to get him off with no suspension or a 2 game suspension. Neither are appropriate punishments for the crime.

[WarofTheWalshy]

A two game suspension is a slap on the wrist. I don't see any difference between attempting to get him off with no suspension or a 2 game suspension. Neither are appropriate punishments for the crime.

Certainly, but given that prior punishments for domestic violence (I think Jamison Hensley wrote about this) usually ranged from 2 to 4 games, it's not like the Ravens were breaking new ground with questionable suspensions. It reveals more about the NFL's original policies than it does the Ravens. As I mentioned earlier, Roethlisberger got suspended for 4 games despite the original allegation (and I believe there were reports of vaginal wounds on the women he went with) being 6 games.

[GrimCoconut]

Lol. Sterling said racist comments regarding African Americans and neglected that he employs them. Yes, that's entirely different than Biscotti trying to protect Ray Rice and his Ravens brand. The reason he has to sell is because he lost his respect within the team and racism was conducted by the owner. He perpetrated the crime. Yeah, I'm sure you can manipulate things to construct an argument that Steve lost respect of the team. But I'll counter by saying that maybe he gained some? The players know that he'll protect them as far as he can to also protect the team. I think people are taking this way too far and have analyzed it way too excessively.

Let's not forget Ray Rice actually punched his wife. It was Ray, not Steve in a Ray Rice Halloween costume.

[WarofTheWalshy]

I also think it's overblown that we all of a sudden have to start calling the Ravens a classless organization for downplaying domestic incidents because of the release of one video. One need be reminded that Terrell Suggs is still on the team even though in 2009 he allegedly threw a soap dispenser at his wife's head, struck her in the chest with his hand and held a bottle of bleach over her and their 1 year old son. Where was the outcry at Bisciotti and Newsome for holding onto Suggs after that incident?

Though it's uncomfortable for some, the reality is NFL teams run their organizations as businesses. They don't track every single player based on his character and decide that they'll only hire players based on moral superiority. If NFL teams did start trying that, I bet that several superstars would start being booted out and the entertainment/business would suffer. It's not that different from seeing MMA fights. UFC and NFL thrive on violence as a business, why are we all of a sudden so concerned about violence off-the-field if we are content with watching it on the field? When does the line get blurred?

[WarofTheWalshy]

To follow up from my prior post, I think one should ask, are we reprehensible people because we enjoy watching a sport that leads to brain damage and potential suicide (Junior Seau)? Do we actively contribute to that crisis because we watch the games and support the NFL financially? I raise these questions because, if we as Ravens fans are complicit in condoning violence or support a classless organization, then what does it say about the rest of football fans who watch a sport that destroys people's lives after retirement?

Social entertainment can be uncomfortable if the actors/players have checkered histories despite the fact we enjoy the shows/games these individuals are involved in. It can be difficult to enjoy watching a movie when the actor/actress has committed heinous acts off-stage (Sean Penn allegedly beat Madonna with a bat). As a result, I sometimes think we need to differentiate between fictional entertainment and the vicious acts of someone off-stage or off-field.

[MTRavensFan]

I don't know I would be surprised if no one gets fired honestly or steps down if this is all true. You underestimate the power the media has

And I think you (and the media) grossly overestimate it. The media has no power outside the ability to throw as much crap at the wall as it can, and hope some of it sticks.

 

Call me naive, but I'd like to credit most people with the intelligence to read between the lines and consider the source.

[gabefergy]

I also think it's overblown that we all of a sudden have to start calling the Ravens a classless organization for downplaying domestic incidents because of the release of one video. One need be reminded that Terrell Suggs is still on the team even though in 2009 he allegedly threw a soap dispenser at his wife's head, struck her in the chest with his hand and held a bottle of bleach over her and their 1 year old son. Where was the outcry at Bisciotti and Newsome for holding onto Suggs after that incident?

Though it's uncomfortable for some, the reality is NFL teams run their organizations as businesses. They don't track every single player based on his character and decide that they'll only hire players based on moral superiority. If NFL teams did start trying that, I bet that several superstars would start being booted out and the entertainment/business would suffer. It's not that different from seeing MMA fights. UFC and NFL thrive on violence as a business, why are we all of a sudden so concerned about violence off-the-field if we are content with watching it on the field? When does the line get blurred?

The difference is there was a smoking gun here, and the Ravens still pretended it was no big deal. There have been countless DV violence cases in the NFL over the years and a large portion of them have amounted to zero punishment from the league. A large part of that is due to the nature of these crimes and how infrequently they get prosecuted. The Ravens were fully aware of what Rice did and anyone who saw the first video should realize something awful happened in that elevator. The fact that the Ravens tried to diminish that crime is an issue for me for multiple reasons.

[balfan23]

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2014/09/20/the-baltimore-ravens-may-become-the-nfls-los-angeles-clippers/&sa=U&ei=6uUdVM-QO8eRyATuq4HYCw&ved=0CBAQqQIwAA&sig2=YYWnhiM1GqUX3_5Y9Rmp0A&usg=AFQjCNELdWIduDe-qR0UKZQvdS4YQJ1iSg

It just keeps getting better!

Could Bisciotti be forced to sell the team??

Forbes magazine? Wow, does this guy know anything on the topic? 

 

I will plead ignorance on this much ... I don't know what the rules are for the NFL .. but let's assume they are like the NBA, that in order for an owner to be forced to sell, the owners need a super majority (3/4th) vote to remove him.

 

One has to realize the major differences between these two incidents. 

 

First - Sterling was alone in a wilderness. What he said had nothing to do with the league office. In the Rice case, the league office is heavily involved and are taking even more heat over it than the Ravens. It will be difficult for the league to suggest punitive action - especially action so severe as to remove an owner - when they are being smeared by the same witch hunt.

 

Second - The full force of the players ... almost to a man, was poised to go to war to see Sterling removed. The NFL players are angry, but not with Bisciotti - rather with Goodell. And that anger has precious little to do with this specific event. Their anger stems from their harsh handling in matters involving fines (not to mention they are irritated that he is SO damn good at his job - which involves keeping their union in check). 

 

Third - The owners could look at Sterling and say, "that's not me ... I'd never find myself in his position." Can they say the same about Bisciotti? Well, in my opinion, virtually every one of them would have gone to bat for their player in a similar fashion. Will they be eager to inflict such a harsh penalty on one of their own, when the transgression is something they would have done themselves (and in some cases - already have)? 

 

Fines and even the loss of a draft pick are possible, but the removal of our owner? Just because there are some self-righteous media members behaving like the Red Queen in "Through the Looking Glass" ("Off with their heads!") doesn't mean that the league owners will be compelled to do something that drastic.  

[GrimCoconut]

Forbes magazine? Wow, does this guy know anything on the topic? 

 

I will plead ignorance on this much ... I don't know what the rules are for the NFL .. but let's assume they are like the NBA, that in order for an owner to be forced to sell, the owners need a super majority (3/4th) vote to remove him.

 

One has to realize the major differences between these two incidents. 

 

First - Sterling was alone in a wilderness. What he said had nothing to do with the league office. In the Rice case, the league office is heavily involved and are taking even more heat over it than the Ravens. It will be difficult for the league to suggest punitive action - especially action so severe as to remove an owner - when they are being smeared by the same witch hunt.

 

Second - The full force of the players ... almost to a man, was poised to go to war to see Sterling removed. The NFL players are angry, but not with Bisciotti - rather with Goodell. And that anger has precious little to do with this specific event. Their anger stems from their harsh handling in matters involving fines (not to mention they are irritated that he is SO damn good at his job - which involves keeping their union in check). 

 

Third - The owners could look at Sterling and say, "that's not me ... I'd never find myself in his position." Can they say the same about Bisciotti? Well, in my opinion, virtually every one of them would have gone to bat for their player in a similar fashion. Will they be eager to inflict such a harsh penalty on one of their own, when the transgression is something they would have done themselves (and in some cases - already have)? 

 

Fines and even the loss of a draft pick are possible, but the removal of our owner? Just because there are some self-righteous media members behaving like the Red Queen in "Through the Looking Glass" ("Off with their heads!") doesn't mean that the league owners will be compelled to do something that drastic.  

You think so? Ahh, every time I consider this I just think it's an unbelievable outcome.. I mean, to suggest the Ravens should lose a draft pick over trying to protect their player, even through a lie, is just such a stretch to me. I'd be more disappointed in the NFL than I already am. I mean, to blame and punish the team for a coordinated failure from both the NFL and the team is a bit narrow-minded, even for Goodell. 

[1/28/01]

Sell? Never gonna happen. This all seems blown up to me.

[goldenboldin]

The difference is there was a smoking gun here, and the Ravens still pretended it was no big deal. There have been countless DV violence cases in the NFL over the years and a large portion of them have amounted to zero punishment from the league. A large part of that is due to the nature of these crimes and how infrequently they get prosecuted. The Ravens were fully aware of what Rice did and anyone who saw the first video should realize something awful happened in that elevator. The fact that the Ravens tried to diminish that crime is an issue for me for multiple reasons.

 

The first video showed him pulling his wife out of the elevator. The only knowledge Biscotti had was that video, Rice's account, and the idea that both of them were drunk. It's not far fetched to believe Biscotti thought she passed out from alcohol. Unless of course, there's more to the story of what was discussed in Biscotti's office than we know.

[WarofTheWalshy]

The difference is there was a smoking gun here, and the Ravens still pretended it was no big deal. There have been countless DV violence cases in the NFL over the years and a large portion of them have amounted to zero punishment from the league. A large part of that is due to the nature of these crimes and how infrequently they get prosecuted. The Ravens were fully aware of what Rice did and anyone who saw the first video should realize something awful happened in that elevator. The fact that the Ravens tried to diminish that crime is an issue for me for multiple reasons.

Based on what I highlighted, one has to beg the question, how many smoking guns were there for any team whose player was involved in DV and yet still played on the team? It only became an issue because the video was public. Any other cases didn't get caught on camera but did not receive the same amount of media attention

As I said in terms of their past history of handling cases like these, I don't think it's an issue of sweeping things under the rug so much as it is moving forward and weathering the storm.

[52520Andrew]

And I think you (and the media) grossly overestimate it. The media has no power outside the ability to throw as much crap at the wall as it can, and hope some of it sticks.

 

Call me naive, but I'd like to credit most people with the intelligence to read between the lines and consider the source.

 

I don't know, as bad as the Sterling thing was, I am sure there were plenty of people with the same opinion that he wasn't going to go anywhere at the time. It really depends on what happens and I am not saying it will but if things start falling a certain way it is a possibility. I mean he is the owner and if this stuff is true he has to be held accountable as well. At this point though I want to hear what the Ravens have to say about this. I really hope that they come out and show that this all is just the media lying but I am a bit skeptical of that honestly from how the Ravens have handled this situation. I guess we will have to see but I don't think there is much to discuss right now until we hear what they have to say. 

[balfan23]

You think so? Ahh, every time I consider this I just think it's an unbelievable outcome.. I mean, to suggest the Ravens should lose a draft pick over trying to protect their player, even through a lie, is just such a stretch to me. I'd be more disappointed in the NFL than I already am. I mean, to blame and punish the team for a coordinated failure from both the NFL and the team is a bit narrow-minded, even for Goodell. 

By saying "Fine and even the loss of a draft pick is possible ..", what that implies is that a fine is more likely than a loss of a draft pick and neither are likely, but possible. 

 

What I think is virtually impossible is the forced sale of the team. That is just crazy talk and there is no basis for those who would make that decision to make it. 

[balfan23]

I don't know, as bad as the Sterling thing was, I am sure there were plenty of people with the same opinion that he wasn't going to go anywhere at the time. It really depends on what happens and I am not saying it will but if things start falling a certain way it is a possibility. I mean he is the owner and if this stuff is true he has to be held accountable as well. At this point though I want to hear what the Ravens have to say about this. I really hope that they come out and show that this all is just the media lying but I am a bit skeptical of that honestly from how the Ravens have handled this situation. I guess we will have to see but I don't think there is much to discuss right now until we hear what they have to say. 

I've outlined what the differences are in the transgressions in a previous post. I think it would be beyond stunning if that happened. 

[GrimCoconut]

By saying "Fine and even the loss of a draft pick is possible ..", what that implies is that a fine is more likely than a loss of a draft pick and neither are likely, but possible. 

 

What I think is virtually impossible is the forced sale of the team. That is just crazy talk and there is no basis for those who would make that decision to make it. 

Oh, I know. Just elaborating with my opinion. I think a fine is the most severe punishment we would receive but I can be wrong. Just my opinion, personally. I'd be very surprised if we lost a pick let alone the owner. I deem both highly improbable. 

[Inqui]

Oh, I know. Just elaborating with my opinion. I think a fine is the most severe punishment we would receive but I can be wrong. Just my opinion, personally. I'd be very surprised if we lost a pick let alone the owner. I deem both highly improbable.

As far as league-imposed penalties, a fine if anything would be my guess. Maybe a strongly-worded letter.

[balfan23]

Oh, I know. Just elaborating with my opinion. I think a fine is the most severe punishment we would receive but I can be wrong. Just my opinion, personally. I'd be very surprised if we lost a pick let alone the owner. I deem both highly improbable. 

I hear you. I think we have 2, maybe 3 more news waves of this crap to endure. One is going to be our rebuttal (and the inevitable media follow up to it) that will come out on Monday. Then, there will be the official report. There may be further rebuttal, depending on what that report contains, but after that, some decisions will be made and then I pray we're done hearing about this crap. 

 

After that, the media jackals and politicians can get back to their feeding frenzy over the Washington football team's nickname. 

[GrimCoconut]

I hear you. I think we have 2, maybe 3 more news waves of this crap to endure. One is going to be our rebuttal (and the inevitable media follow up to it) that will come out on Monday. Then, there will be the official report. There may be further rebuttal, depending on what that report contains, but after that, some decisions will be made and then I pray we're done hearing about this crap. 

 

After that, the media jackals and politicians can get back to their feeding frenzy over the Washington football team's nickname. 

That's probably likely. I don't really care anymore. Maybe that makes me a bad person. I don't care. It's over for me. I've moved on a while ago. 

[balfan23]

That's probably likely. I don't really care anymore. Maybe that makes me a bad person. I don't care. It's over for me. I've moved on a while ago. 

No, I don't think anyone who has shut down on this matter would be a bad person. I can say I don't care, but it still gets me upset, even though I know it shouldn't. 

 

Tomorrow, I will don my Ravens jersey, head to my sports bar to meet up with my fellow expatriate Ravens fans and cheer louder than ever. I will encounter many on my way and in the bar who cheer for other teams ... and while I know I shouldn't care ... I am interested in seeing what kind of response we get from other patrons. 

 

GO RAVENS!

[jimmypowder]

Oh, I know. Just elaborating with my opinion. I think a fine is the most severe punishment we would receive but I can be wrong. Just my opinion, personally. I'd be very surprised if we lost a pick let alone the owner. I deem both highly improbable.

The only reason why we won't lose a draft pick is because Goodell messed up too.

[TheRavenouseD2008]

If I remember correctly did they not file simple assault charges against Janay and then Drop them ?

[The Mom Gene]

No, I don't think anyone who has shut down on this matter would be a bad person. I can say I don't care, but it still gets me upset, even though I know it shouldn't. 

 

Tomorrow, I will don my Ravens jersey, head to my sports bar to meet up with my fellow expatriate Ravens fans and cheer louder than ever. I will encounter many on my way and in the bar who cheer for other teams ... and while I know I shouldn't care ... I am interested in seeing what kind of response we get from other patrons. 

 

GO RAVENS!

Me too, Balfan...

[RedFire]

Yes, because no one in this situation with an exemplary past ever does anything wrong.  Wait, I feel like I remember this guy, who was great in the community, a real team player, who all of a sudden cold clocked his fiance in an elevator.

Your blind faith in the Ravens is disturbing.  Were you one of the ones that needed to see the video to believe Rice did something wrong in the elevator?

 

how you know she ain't slip on a banana peel?

 

you can't make a judgement on a half a video. you need to see a full video!!! I HOPE YOU NEVER HAVE JURY DUTY...EVER! 

[rmw10]

@ESPNNFL: JUST IN: Ray Rice will argue that the video TMZ released of him inside the elevator was edited http://es.pn/1DqFXOS