Merged: Ray Rice Released and Suspended

[BirdWatcher]

Telling someone "I smacked my fiancé, she fell back and hit her head" is the truth. Seeing the video puts a whole different light on it, though. Most of us had heard over and over what that video was going to show, but we still had no idea how bad it was until it got released.

[ratedr]

Telling someone "I smacked my fiancé, she fell back and hit her head" is the truth. Seeing the video puts a whole different light on it, though. Most of us had heard over and over what that video was going to show, but we still had no idea how bad it was until it got released.

The first video should have been a pretty good indicator of how bad it was. And how did the team respond to that first video? To paraphrase:

"We are aware of the situation. This one incident does not reflect the totality of Rice's character."

Seriously?

[ravensdfan]

Telling someone "I smacked my fiancé, she fell back and hit her head" is the truth. Seeing the video puts a whole different light on it, though. Most of us had heard over and over what that video was going to show, but we still had no idea how bad it was until it got released.

 

Exactly. It isn't a lie per se but "smacked her" and what is on that video to me are two different things conjuring up two very different images of what happened.

 

Which is all I'm saying. 

[ratedr]

People want to blame Goodell and the Ravens, everybody but the guy who punched out his wife in an elevator or the guy who let him off with diversion and a clean criminal record.

This whole public outcry is pure medieval bloodlust because Ray Rice walked away with virtually no consequence for what he did, which has fired up the masses to call for someone’s….anyone’s….head, and they don’t care who it is, just so long as they have someone to point at and blame, thereby making themselves feel better because “justice was served.”

And then people will move on to the next story and/or issue that gets them all worked up and the cycle will start all over again with a new piñata at which everybody can take a metaphorical swing.

Agree with this comment on PFT.

[The Mom Gene]

No one is attempting to censor anyone from posting their opinions. The boards on this site are here for the enjoyment of all members. ;Those who consistently argue another member's opinions is indeed trolling. No member on this site should feel intimidated or fear posting their opinions.

If members cannot respect other's opinions, posts will be removed, warnings will be issued, points assessed, and the thread will be locked down if it becomes inciteful or out of control.

We have asked this of folks on several occasions. We have been more than tolerant during the events that have unfolded over recent weeks. We want all perspectives posted, and all opinions are welcomed. When members start using words like idiotic, stupid, as well as many other unreasonable terms, we engage.

PLEASE adhere to the rules of the boards. If folks aren't clear, a link to the Board Basics is posted at the bottom of the threads.

[gabefergy]

Agree with this comment on PFT.

I think there is a lot of truth to that.

[ratedr]

No one is attempting to censor anyone from posting their opinions. The boards on this site are here for the enjoyment of all members. ;Those who consistently argue another member's opinions is indeed trolling. No member on this site should feel intimidated or fear posting their opinions.

If members cannot respect other's opinions, posts will be removed, warnings will be issued, points assed, and the thread will be locked down if it becomes inciteful or out of control.

We have asked this of folks on several occasions. We have been more than tolerant during the events that have unfolded over recent weeks. We want all perspectives posted, and all opinions are welcomed. When members start using words like idiotic, stupid, as well as many other unreasonable terms, we engage.

PLEASE adhere to the rules of the boards. If folks aren't clear, a link to the Board Basics is posted at the bottom of the threads.

So those words can't be applied to the upper management, even if accurate? We can only talk about how the team has handled this case in euphemistic terms?

[ratedr]

I think there is a lot of truth to that.

It's precisely why I'm no necessarily supportive of people being forced to resign over this. That solves what, exactly?

[gabefergy]

It's precisely why I'm no necessarily supportive of people being forced to resign over this. That solves what, exactly?

It's an admittance of wrongdoing in the way the team handled the situation.

[BSHU_Miami]

So you don't care that Bisciotti, Ozzie, and Cass all lied to us fans? You don't care that they covered up this whole scandal and then tried to bribe Rice? You just don't care? You don't care about how unethical and irresponsible they've been? You really just don't care?

No.....I don't......I care about a football game on Sunday. 

[ratedr]

It's an admittance of wrongdoing in the way the team handled the situation.

I suppose, but for me that would be more of them resigning because they're bad at their jobs, which I'm fine with.

[gabefergy]

I suppose, but for me that would be more of them resigning because they're bad at their jobs, which I'm fine with.

In the case of Byrne I think that is totally called for. I can't imagine a worse way to do things from a PR perspective.

[ratedr]

In the case of Byrne I think that is totally called for. I can't imagine a worse way to do things from a PR perspective.

Awaiting his next Byrne identity: "I Still Like Ray Rice."

[The Mom Gene]

So we all have to agree to have the ability to post now? Arguing is not trolling. There is no name-caling happening. There have been no violations. 

Arguing is considered trolling in most instances...  As by arguing about someone's opinion indicates that they are "wrong".  An opinion cannot be wrong.  An opinion is just that, it's an opinion.  And yes, there are folks that have been on these boards as recently as today that have "baited others" by posting, and inciting argument by using words as I have indicated..  Yes, calling "upper management" idiotic is inciteful...  and many don't feel that way at all.  There are many more appropriate terms that can be used, without name calling. 

[BirdWatcher]

So those words can't be applied to the upper management, even if accurate? We can only talk about how the team has handled this case in euphemistic terms?

No, but you all may not attack each other. Be considerate of your fellow posters.

[Moderator 2]

So we all have to agree to have the ability to post now? Arguing is not trolling. There is no name-caling happening. There have been no violations.

Discussing is not trolling, badgering one person is, and is taking the same discussion to different threads which is why we closed the other one.

[Inqui]

Yes, after thinking on it more, Bisciotti and Ozzie didn't do much wrong. Cass only did a little wrong. 

I still think what they did was wrong, as it means at best they were being wilfully ignorant of the situation and lied to the fans twice while taking advantage of the system to get Ray back ASAP. It's not as bad as Spygate and certainly not as bad as Bountygate (what's this going to be called? Elevatorgate? It's just a shame it didn't happen outside Ray's front gate or else it could have been Gategate), and is no different to what every rich person in the history of ever does on a regular basis, but I think it should be leaving a sour taste in a lot of fans' mouths. At least they didn't break the law like a certain owner in Indiana, but Tiger Woods never broke any laws and he deserved the hate he got imo.

[WarofTheWalshy]

Okay, I may get called out as favoritism for Ravens, but can someone tell me, what exactly was the cover-up if they knew the details and didn't release him until only the public video came about? They campaigned for a redemption campaign sure, but perhaps they genuinely believed on account of his track record that the act was an abomination and wanted to give Ray Rice another chance. Is it malevolent to suggests giving a player a second chance? Is that what we call, putting an issue under the rug? I think people are conflating two different things.

They said they knew the details (Ozzie did). The bad part, arguably, was that they were pushing for a more lenient punishment for Rice rather than out-right releasing him. They could’ve done what they’ve done with other players in the belief of a second chance (Ray Lewis, Jamal Lewis, Terrell Suggs, Jimmy Smith, etc) and advocate for him because that's their history of doing things. They didn’t stop the NFL from seeing the tape. Though morally questionable, I wouldn’t doubt that people advocate for their friends even when their friends commit a mistake.

I'm quoting from the ESPN article

“But after Ravens offensive lineman Jah Reid was arrested March 8 in Key West, Florida, and charged with two counts of battery for his role in a bar fight, Harbaugh, according to several sources, again went to Newsome and advocated that the three Ravens players arrested in the offseason -- Rice, Reid and wide receiver Deonte Thompson -- be released. Newsome, according to what Rice was told, bristled at the recommendation, saying he was the decision-maker in the matter, not Harbaugh, and he believed in second chances. Newsome believed if the team had weathered the controversy in 2000 when All-Pro linebacker Ray Lewis was charged in a double homicide after a Super Bowl party in Atlanta, and had endured the criticism after running back Jamal Lewis' guilty plea to cocaine trafficking in 2004, it could certainly weather the controversy surrounding this trio of arrests, too.”

Again, as I said,  morally questionable to hold on to a felon when you build yourself as a team of character, yes, but why should the Ravens be held to a different standard when the Patriots hired Albert Haynesworth (stomped on a guy’s head unprotected with cleats), when the 49ers still have Ray McDonald on the team (who gave his wife bruises on her neck and arms), when the Vikings still have Adrian Peterson, etc?

I also think it's ridiculous to call for Ozzie Newsome and Steve Bisciotti's firing just because they lobbied for a more lenient punishment. Let's compare some paragraphs in the article to other owners
 

“The first was the so-called Spygate investigation in 2007 after New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick and his assistants were caught using a secret videotaping system of opponents' coaches over the course of multiple seasons. Within five days, Goodell decided on the punishment, fining Belichick $500,000 and the team $250,000 and stripping New England of a first-round draft choice. But Goodell also ordered all the spying videotapes destroyed, leaving it a mystery how much the spying had helped the Patriots win games, including Super Bowls in the 2001, 2003 and 2004 seasons. Goodell is extremely close to Patriots owner Robert Kraft, and some owners and other executives felt their relationship had played a role in the punishment, which they felt could have been harsher.

[. . .]

 

Such is the assumption by some front offices that Goodell plays favorites among the owners that Woody Johnson, the Jets owner, was enraged after Goodell conducted a closed-door coin-flip to determine whether the Jets or Giants would host the first home game at the new Met Life Stadium in September 2010. The Giants won, Goodell announced, but no team representatives witnessed Goodell's coin flip. Johnson accused Goodell of rigging the coin toss for Giants owner John Mara, who Goodell counts as one of his closest confidants.

 

In 2010, Goodell suspended Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger for six games under the league's personal conduct policy after he was accused -- though not arrested or charged -- with sexually assaulting a college student after a night of drinking in a bar in Milledgeville, Ga. Goodell, however, reduced Roethlisberger's suspension to four games, writing in a letter to the Super Bowl-winning quarterback he could see Roethlisberger was "committed to making better decisions." Steelers co-owner Art Rooney II accompanied Roethlisberger to his meeting with Goodell, and told ESPN he had been in contact with Goodell throughout the four-month process.”

So, why are the Ravens being singled out because the owner has a favorable relationship with Goodell? Should we demand for Kraft and Rooney's (who's doing the investigation, mind you) resignations?

I think the executives morally erred for sure because they believed on prior history that they could weather the storm, but I don't think it's out-right criminal or inhumane to advocate for someone on the basis of second chances. God forbid we lose sight of moving on and trying to heal through things by forgiving someone. Otherwise, Michael Vick, Ray Lewis, and other players going through tribulations would be gone from the league or suspended indefinitely.

Please feel free to comment to my reply if I erred.
 

[52520Andrew]

I still think what they did was wrong, as it means at best they were being wilfully ignorant of the situation and lied to the fans twice while taking advantage of the system to get Ray back ASAP. It's not as bad as Spygate and certainly not as bad as Bountygate (what's this going to be called? Elevatorgate? It's just a shame it didn't happen outside Ray's front gate or else it could have been Gategate), and is no different to what every rich person in the history of ever does on a regular basis, but I think it should be leaving a sour taste in a lot of fans' mouths. At least they didn't break the law like a certain owner in Indiana, but Tiger Woods never broke any laws and he deserved the hate he got imo.

 

Sounds fine with me lol

[K-Dog]

Telling someone "I smacked my fiancé, she fell back and hit her head" is the truth. Seeing the video puts a whole different light on it, though. Most of us had heard over and over what that video was going to show, but we still had no idea how bad it was until it got released.

THIS ten times over.

 

If you told me Ray Rice of all people, close fist punched Janay, what was in that video would NOT have been the mental picture in my head.

Not even a little bit.

That hit was with far more force and aggression than I could have imagined.

Dont get me wrong, it doesnt make an ounce of difference,  beyond impression of the situation.

[MTRavensFan]

Okay, I may get called out as favoritism for Ravens, but can someone tell me, what exactly was the cover-up if they knew the details and didn't release him until only the public video came about? They campaigned for a redemption campaign sure, but perhaps they genuinely believed on account of his track record that the act was an abomination and wanted to give Ray Rice another chance. Is it malevolent to suggests giving a player a second chance? Is that what we call, putting an issue under the rug? I think people are conflating two different things....

Please feel free to comment to my reply if I erred.

 

No, I agree 100% (sorry for shortening a well-thought-out post).

 

If that was MY daughter on that tape, I'd want the FO to do everything in their power to keep it from seeing the light of day.

[busterblue52]

So Harbaugh wanted to cut Rice after he saw the video and Biscotti/Newsome wouldn't let him. Then they send him out to address the media by himself. I love our coach to death but our owner and gm screwed up.

[ratedr]

I also don't think there was a cover up. They just didn't care and wanted to keep Rice anyway. Considering that Bisciotti already admitted as much, that's not news.

[TheRavenouseD2008]

THIS ten times over.

 

If you told me Ray Rice of all people, close fist punched Janay, what was in that video would NOT have been the mental picture in my head.

Not even a little bit.

That hit was with far more force and aggression than I could have imagined.

Dont get me wrong, it doesnt make an ounce of difference,  beyond impression of the situation.

Still in any action you can not take any prior or outlying circumstances such as the camera outside in the lobby prior to the elevator ..... if anything it was aggravated assault  which in most states is not a felony  this means it was instigated by the offended party..... so often we forget and focus on the transgression and not what led to it ,  both were drunk both were arguing and aggressive and we do not know what was said  prior to either video.

[The Mom Gene]

So Harbaugh wanted to cut Rice after he saw the video and Biscotti/Newsome wouldn't let him. Then they send him out to address the media by himself. I love our coach to death but our owner and gm screwed up.

I think it was initially.  Harbs wanted to release him back in February, right after the incident took place...  The consensus came after the 2nd video came out.

[The Mom Gene]

Still in any action you can not take any prior or outlying circumstances such as the camera outside in the lobby prior to the elevator ..... if anything it was aggravated assault  which in most states is not a felony  this means it was instigated by the offended party..... so often we forget and focus on the transgression and not what led to it ,  both were drunk both were arguing and aggressive and we do not know what was said  prior to either video.

And this...  I agree with.

[Moderator 2]

Okay, I may get called out as favoritism for Ravens, but can someone tell me, what exactly was the cover-up if they knew the details and didn't release him until only the public video came about? They campaigned for a redemption campaign sure, but perhaps they genuinely believed on account of his track record that the act was an abomination and wanted to give Ray Rice another chance. Is it malevolent to suggests giving a player a second chance? Is that what we call, putting an issue under the rug? I think people are conflating two different things.

They said they knew the details (Ozzie did). The bad part, arguably, was that they were pushing for a more lenient punishment for Rice rather than out-right releasing him. They could’ve done what they’ve done with other players in the belief of a second chance (Ray Lewis, Jamal Lewis, Terrell Suggs, Jimmy Smith, etc) or they were trying to advocate for him. They didn’t stop the NFL from seeing the tape. Though morally questionable, I wouldn’t doubt that people advocate for their friends even when their friends commit a mistake.

Welcome and you were quite right a well thought out post another mod approved while I was Responding to your PM

Jah Reid always surprised me, because he seem like such a nice guy around town and the gym I go to. We were actually having the discussion IF Ray Lewis' obstructing justice would happen in this environment would the Ravens have cut GOAT whose statue stands next to #19 in the Mod Forum. I think part of all this is the 24 hr news cycle, so who knows.

[busterblue52]

I think it was initially.  Harbs wanted to release him back in February, right after the incident took place...  The consensus came after the 2nd video came out.

Ah yes that's what I meant typed that out wrong lol.

[jazz1988]

I can't believe people are actually calling for someone to get fired . Wow that's crazy to me .

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Okay, I may get called out as favoritism for Ravens, but can someone tell me, what exactly was the cover-up if they knew the details and didn't release him until only the public video came about? They campaigned for a redemption campaign sure, but perhaps they genuinely believed on account of his track record that the act was an abomination and wanted to give Ray Rice another chance. Is it malevolent to suggests giving a player a second chance? Is that what we call, putting an issue under the rug? I think people are conflating two different things.

They said they knew the details (Ozzie did). The bad part, arguably, was that they were pushing for a more lenient punishment for Rice rather than out-right releasing him. They could’ve done what they’ve done with other players in the belief of a second chance (Ray Lewis, Jamal Lewis, Terrell Suggs, Jimmy Smith, etc) and advocate for him because that's their history of doing things. They didn’t stop the NFL from seeing the tape. Though morally questionable, I wouldn’t doubt that people advocate for their friends even when their friends commit a mistake.

I'm quoting from the ESPN article

“But after Ravens offensive lineman Jah Reid was arrested March 8 in Key West, Florida, and charged with two counts of battery for his role in a bar fight, Harbaugh, according to several sources, again went to Newsome and advocated that the three Ravens players arrested in the offseason -- Rice, Reid and wide receiver Deonte Thompson -- be released. Newsome, according to what Rice was told, bristled at the recommendation, saying he was the decision-maker in the matter, not Harbaugh, and he believed in second chances. Newsome believed if the team had weathered the controversy in 2000 when All-Pro linebacker Ray Lewis was charged in a double homicide after a Super Bowl party in Atlanta, and had endured the criticism after running back Jamal Lewis' guilty plea to cocaine trafficking in 2004, it could certainly weather the controversy surrounding this trio of arrests, too.”

Again, as I said,  morally questionable to hold on to a felon when you build yourself as a team of character, yes, but why should the Ravens be held to a different standard when the Patriots hired Albert Haynesworth (stomped on a guy’s head unprotected with cleats), when the 49ers still have Ray McDonald on the team (who gave his wife bruises on her neck and arms), when the Vikings still have Adrian Peterson, etc?

I also think it's ridiculous to call for Ozzie Newsome and Steve Bisciotti's firing just because they lobbied for a more lenient punishment. Let's compare some paragraphs in the article to other owners

 

“The first was the so-called Spygate investigation in 2007 after New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick and his assistants were caught using a secret videotaping system of opponents' coaches over the course of multiple seasons. Within five days, Goodell decided on the punishment, fining Belichick $500,000 and the team $250,000 and stripping New England of a first-round draft choice. But Goodell also ordered all the spying videotapes destroyed, leaving it a mystery how much the spying had helped the Patriots win games, including Super Bowls in the 2001, 2003 and 2004 seasons. Goodell is extremely close to Patriots owner Robert Kraft, and some owners and other executives felt their relationship had played a role in the punishment, which they felt could have been harsher.

[. . .]

 

Such is the assumption by some front offices that Goodell plays favorites among the owners that Woody Johnson, the Jets owner, was enraged after Goodell conducted a closed-door coin-flip to determine whether the Jets or Giants would host the first home game at the new Met Life Stadium in September 2010. The Giants won, Goodell announced, but no team representatives witnessed Goodell's coin flip. Johnson accused Goodell of rigging the coin toss for Giants owner John Mara, who Goodell counts as one of his closest confidants.

 

In 2010, Goodell suspended Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger for six games under the league's personal conduct policy after he was accused -- though not arrested or charged -- with sexually assaulting a college student after a night of drinking in a bar in Milledgeville, Ga. Goodell, however, reduced Roethlisberger's suspension to four games, writing in a letter to the Super Bowl-winning quarterback he could see Roethlisberger was "committed to making better decisions." Steelers co-owner Art Rooney II accompanied Roethlisberger to his meeting with Goodell, and told ESPN he had been in contact with Goodell throughout the four-month process.”

So, why are the Ravens being singled out because the owner has a favorable relationship with Goodell? Should we demand for Kraft and Rooney's (who's doing the investigation, mind you) resignations?

I think the executives morally erred for sure because they believed on prior history that they could weather the storm, but I don't think it's out-right criminal or inhumane to advocate for someone on the basis of second chances. God forbid we lose sight of moving on and trying to heal through things by forgiving someone. Otherwise, Michael Vick, Ray Lewis, and other players going through tribulations would be gone from the league or suspended indefinitely.

Please feel free to comment to my reply if I erred.

 

Absolutely! This is good. Reading is fundamental. Thank you. Throw in Big Ben, Brady and Manning, as well. No high profile person is beyond mistakes and redemption if given the opportunity.