Stop the Rumors and Gossip.... Lets talk facts...

[ravens9273]

Due to other threads getting out of control I wanted to start a new one. This thread however is not like the others and reason I feel it deserved its own thread. I also did not want what I am going to write to end up lost in any number of 100's of pages to another thread.

 

I am a die hard Ravens fan. The whole situation with Ray Rice has gotten to me but probably in a different way then others. My post will be long. But I am here to clear up facts from Rumor. I would gladly stand up for the Ravens even in the press if need be. The Press has turned this into a circus.

The most shocking part is if people had basic understanding of our laws they would know the press is writing false stories.

 

All stories I have seen from the press have unnamed sources. This is your first red flag. We will cover this later as well.

 

The only OFFICIAL comment in this matter is from the Attorney General of New Jersey. The statement was as follows.

 

"Giving NFL casino elevator footage would have been illegal"

 

In criminal cases all evidence is sealed until the case is closed. This is the Law.

No one could distribute the video. The video is evidence to an open criminal investigation/case.

 

If you are asking how TMZ got it.

The incident occurred in the Revel Casino Atlantic City, NJ.

On September 2, 2014 The Revel Casino Closed it doors. No longer open for business.

You have a lot of ex employees. People out of work. TMZ has admitted to paying for the video.

The Casino itself did not give the video to TMZ. TMZ did not obtain the video from the state of New Jersey nor any law enforcement agency. Since the video was not obtained until after the Casino closed it is safe presume it was purchased from an ex employee.

TMZ being a News Company is protected by freedom of the press laws. As long as TMZ did not steal the video they are allowed to publish it even though it is evidence in an open case. TMZ is also protected from reveling their sources. They cannot be made to disclose who sold them the video.

The person who sold them the video did commit a criminal offense selling the video. This is why their name is not being mentioned.

This is how TMZ obtained the video.

 

By Law no one was allowed to give a copy of the video to the NFL or the Ravens. As the Attorney General of New Jersey has stated. Giving the video to the NFL would be illegal.

The NFL nor the Ravens are protected under Freedom of the Press laws. They cannot even purchase a copy of the video from an ex employee. If they had done so they could face criminal charges and be forced to expose who sold the video to them.

 

Our Laws clearly state there was no legal way the NFL or the Ravens could have obtained a copy. If they had it was illegal.

 

All the NFL and the Ravens had was a report, and statements from Ray Rice and his wife.

 

I have seen many comment that even if they did not see the video how could they make such a mistake.

I was at both the Ravens "Open Practice" and 1st preseason game vs. the 49ers.

I saw the cheers from the fans for Ray Rice. Those fans at that time (both Men and Women) already knew about the assault. They cheered in support.

How can the same people now condemn the Ravens for doing the same?

The Ravens and the NFL were given the same story the fans were.

The Ravens knew Ray Rice for many years. As fans we knew Ray Rice for many years.

No one would ever have thought Ray would have ever assaulted his Fiance' (at the time).

As fans we had no video. The Ravens had no video.

As fans we saw a press release with Ray and his wife. Ray apologized. His wife was taking blame saying she hit him as well. Weeks later as fans we cheered him on the field.

 

What the fans were given was the same the Ravens were given. The fans stood behind him until the video came out. (Do not comment if you were one who did not. In general most did. I am not here to discuss every single person. Majority supported him. I did not hear boos at the game or practice).

How can you condemn the Ravens for doing the same? They did not have the video. They had a report, Rays and Janay's statements and 6 years of knowing Ray's character to work with.

 

Over the last couple of days this story has turned into a witch hunt for Roger Goodell. All over it is being said the NFL either did have the video, Did not ask for the video, or ignored the video.

First being so many different stories you have to question them already as nothing more then press trying to stir up more nonsense for ratings.

 

Now if we go back to the beginning of my post does the law and the Attorney General already not tell us the NFL and Ravens could not receive a copy of the video? Do we really need to discuss this further? Simply there is no legal way they could posses the video. End of story. All the reports are officially false.

 

Today the AP had gotten jealous TMZ was getting all the attention that they had to invent the worst story of all.

 

Today the AP released a story stating the an unnamed source (once again an unnamed source) says they personally sent the video to the NFL and even had voicemail proof.

I cannot copy the article here but it is easy to find if you searched for it.

 

Lets go over this breaking news by the AP.

 

Unnamed source says he sent the video to the NFL 3 months ago (June).

The voice mail proof which is suppose to be a message thanking for the video and that "Yes it was terrible" to indicate the NFL reviewed the video was from April 9.

How can the NFL receive and watch a video in April that was mailed in June?

 

Lets move on.

 

Look how perfect the voice message was to incite anger.

The press is blaming Goodell for not punishing Rice enough, For lying about receiving the video etc..

Could the voice message be any more perfect to discredit him on all accounts?

Here is the brief voice message

 

"You're right. It's terrible!"

 

4 simple words perfectly designed to destroy Roger Goodell and the NFL.

 

Those 4 words state Goodell lied about receiving video.

Those 4 words state Goodell lied about seeing the video.

Those 4 words state Roger Goodell did not punish Ray properly.

 

How amazingly those 4 simple words cover all accusations against Roger Goodell. They are a little too perfect.

 

If the video was already in the hands of the NFL in April, and by the voice message viewed at that time. Why did it take Goodell until late July to issue Ray's punishment?

Ray and his wife visited Goodell in June. The video was not discussed. Had the NFL had the video and viewed it would Goodell not bring this up during the meeting?

 

The unnamed source in AP's article presents themselves as a Police Officer. yet they will not give their name. They also refused to give the name of the person at the NFL on the recording. The reason given by the unnamed source is that it was illegal to have given the video to the NFL.

Here we have the fact that it was illegal for the NFL to have the video.

But lets talk more about this comment.

The unnamed source stressed in this article they were afraid of being caught for sending the video to the NFL.

So this person is a Police Officer who takes a chance at destroying his lively hood, going to prison, all out of the kindness of his heart to give the NFL the video. Makes sense to you? Me either....

But wait. It still gets interesting.

This Police Officer does not want to get caught yet they keep documented proof to committing a crime. A Voice Message.

Do any of you keep a thank you voice message for 5 months? I know I do not and I also did not break any laws to keep evidence of around for so long. Honestly after 90 days they are automatically deleted from my accounts and it has been that way with every carrier I have ever had.

As bad as that all sounds there is still more...

The source does not want to get caught yet admits to the press under hidden identity they sent the video to the NFL. Well hidden source.. You gave yourself up already. NFL is not the press. They are not protected from reveling sources. All the New Jersey Attorney General has to do now is make the NFL give you up. Not such a smart move now huh?

 

AP provided no proof, contradicting story. They did not even provide an actual voice message.

The real proof here could easily have been a receipt from a shipping company of a package delivery.

If you were making up this story what would be the best way to do so without solid proof but passing it off as? You would come up with the very story given.

 

As the famous Judge Judy says all the time. "If it does not make sense it is not the truth".

The very laws of our own country and words of the New Jersey Attorney General show us the press is not being honest. They are making stories for ratings. Stop falling for them. Lets Support our Ravens.

 

 

 

.

 

[K-Dog]

Give this person a green +1 for me.

[Purple Nurple]

I refuse to read a post that big. No. Sorry

Good on ya though for getting those feeling out.

[flynismo]

Waiting for cliff notes...

but +1 for putting in the work

[beanfigger]

I'm confused about you still labeling this an open case. Wasn't it closed months ago when Ray was accepted into the pretrial program? He is not being tried, and cannot be tried for this anymore, so all the talk about disclosing evidence of an open case seems moot to me.

[RavensAllTheWay]

I'm confused about you still labeling this an open case. Wasn't it closed months ago when Ray was accepted into the pretrial program? He is not being tried, and cannot be tried for this anymore, so all the talk about disclosing evidence of an open case seems moot to me.

 

I think I read somewhere that it remains open until his pretrial program is complete, but that could be false.

[MTRavensFan]

I'm confused about you still labeling this an open case. Wasn't it closed months ago when Ray was accepted into the pretrial program? He is not being tried, and cannot be tried for this anymore, so all the talk about disclosing evidence of an open case seems moot to me.

 

No, the case remains open until Rice completes the year. If he stays out of trouble charges are dropped. If he gets arrested again, the charges are re-instated and he goes to trial on them, plus any new charges from the new arrest.

 

And if the casino employee had signed a non-disclosure agreement (which almost all in security do as a condition of employment), than whoever sold that video to TMZ DID break the law.

[Guest I-70WestRaven]

Give this person a green +1 for me.

Done! Hard work done here, true fan!

[Radinho84]

Great Post.

Good read.

[akacrow]

Why does anyone give a flying crap about who said what when?

An entire family just got [hosed] by an organization and a fan base, and I give a crap about when the FO received a video tape?

What I want to know is why did I love Ray Rice, and forgive Ray Rice, kumbya Ray Rice, it's all good Ray Rice, and now I am supposed to think he is a [profanity deleted]?

Unbelieveable...

[EricH]

Great post.  That was worth more than double my time compared to most of the pages in the other thread.

[BSHU_Miami]

This post should be pinned on to the other thread. Well Done.

[SteelerStone]

Didn't have enough free time to read the OP but here's a couple of my facts:

 

1. NOW is ignorance personified!  They are not interested in fixing the plethora of problems in the NFL, they are just interested in fueling their cause!

 

2. This is going to mold the future of football in the United States and now is the time for our voices to be heard more than ever before.  Let the NFL and the owners, and the NFLPA, know that we want our game back!  Their greed has gone far enough!

[beanfigger]

No, the case remains open until Rice completes the year. If he stays out of trouble charges are dropped. If he gets arrested again, the charges are re-instated and he goes to trial on them, plus any new charges from the new arrest.

And if the casino employee had signed a non-disclosure agreement (which almost all in security do as a condition of employment), than whoever sold that video to TMZ DID break the law.

I think I read somewhere that it remains open until his pretrial program is complete, but that could be false.

Thanks.

[berad]

Didn't have enough free time to read the OP but here's a couple of my facts:

 

1. NOW is ignorance personified!  They are not interested in fixing the plethora of problems in the NFL, they are just interested in fueling their cause!

 

2. This is going to mold the future of football in the United States and now is the time for our voices to be heard more than ever before.  Let the NFL and the owners, and the NFLPA, know that we want our game back!  Their greed has gone far enough!

 

Not about DV anymore? It's about some 'holding onto the past' thing?

[Tank 92]

yeah, this is now all about trying to hang the NFL and maybe also the Ravens FO  AND to keep it alive for the clicks and ratings.

[503_ravens_fan]

Great read. Thank you

[K-Dog]

MODS:

Please keep this thread open and on its own.

I have quit going to every other RR thread.

This one makes sense and is not aggravating.

Thank you.

BTW, you all are doing a great job in all this mess.

[Moderator 3]

We're talking it over. The "thread explosion" is pretty hard to manage.

[K-Dog]

Thanks.

One thread seems like feelings and opinions. This one seems news and fact.

Lets hope that trend continues.

You all are doing great.

THANK YOU!

[Blackbirds Rule]

nice post

[EricH]

Patronize me here guys, because I truly am curious.  If the elevator video was illegal for purchase and for the NFL and Ravens to view per the NJ Attorney General...why was the video from outside the elevator not?  That video has been out for months now.

[akacrow]

Patronize me here guys, because I truly am curious.  If the elevator video was illegal for purchase and for the NFL and Ravens to view per the NJ Attorney General...why was the video from outside the elevator not?  That video has been out for months now.

TMZ acquired the first video, and released it to the public. 

[ravens9273]

Patronize me here guys, because I truly am curious.  If the elevator video was illegal for purchase and for the NFL and Ravens to view per the NJ Attorney General...why was the video from outside the elevator not?  That video has been out for months now.

There could be a number of reasons why the first video was released. However there is only one as to why Elevator video was not.

The video shown months ago outside the elevator did not show a crime. If you knew nothing in advance and seen that video you could have made up several explanations as to what had happened. It could have been a person helping another who fainted. It could have been a person who past out drunk. It could have been violence. The video outside the elevator is not as important and the Police may not have confiscated it because it did not show the crime. There is also the possibility It was just leaked.

Now this is also important. The video TMZ released Monday was not just of the inside of the elevator. This video showed outside the elevator before they go it. We did not see this in the earlier video. The reason this was also not shown before is because outside the elevator it does show Janay hit Ray. While the hit looked minor it still is part of the story. By law no one is allowed to put their hands on anyone else. This is why she was also arrested at first. That part is just as important with the evidence and was sealed.

 

The video of inside the elevator is what showed the actual crime. This is the important video. This is the video the whole states case would rest on in a criminal trial. This is the number 1 piece of evidence. There is no question it was confiscated and marked as evidence. At that point it was illegal to be released or past around to anyone who wanted it. Once it was in Police custody only Ray Rice's Attorney could request a copy in order to build a defense in case of trial.

 

I am only guessing here. But the fact the outside video before they got into the elevator and inside the elevator were put together is because these two videos tell the whole story. They show the crime. The first video released does not. I feel the first video was not made into evidence. But that is just me making a guess.

 

Also keep in mind. The night TMZ released the elevator video the Main guy at TMZ (Do not know his name and could care less) did an interview. This is where he was also telling people to look at the website in the morning because they claimed to have proof NFL never asked for the video (evidence being another unnamed source with no proof. Go figure).

In that interview TMZ stated they worked for 7 months to get the elevator video. They admitted to paying for it and were only able to get it after the Casino closed.

Now that everyone is starting to understand the laws and that the video was not allowed outside of the courts You have to see there was no way NFL or Ravens got the video.

Even TMZ with all its connections, Army of people out there to get information by any means necessary which will cross the line of ethics and legality, could not get there hands on the video. It took the Casino closing and an ex employee to sell it to them now.

[SteelerStone]

Patronize me here guys, because I truly am curious.  If the elevator video was illegal for purchase and for the NFL and Ravens to view per the NJ Attorney General...why was the video from outside the elevator not?  That video has been out for months now.

Good question!  Both are taken in public places.

[Yum Chickens]

I saw the cheers from the fans for Ray Rice. Those fans at that time (both Men and Women) already knew about the assault. They cheered in support.

How can the same people now condemn the Ravens for doing the same?

 

How can you condemn the Ravens for doing the same? They did not have the video. They had a report, Rays and Janay's statements and 6 years of knowing Ray's character to work with.

 

 

Ugh. The cheers. I know you didn't want personal opinions about that but that disgusted me.

 

And I can condemn the Ravens management because they didn't need the video. No one needed that video. She walked into the elevator conscious, and left unconscious, and there were plenty of reports indicating he hit her. Why is the video suddenly a surprise? What on earth did you think happened in the elevator? That he pushed her or she was intoxicated? Give me a break. Rice should have been cut from the beginning, or at the very least suspended a year, the Ravens should've done it themselves. 

 

However I am glad the Ravens admitted they made a mistake by not pursuing the investigation, it doesn't fix everything but it is a step in the right direction. 

 

Edit: When I say reports that he hit her, I should specify they were reports from the police. Still - my point is you don't need a video to figure out what happened between point A and point C.  http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/2/20/5432060/ray-rice-arrest-video-suspension-nfl/in/5191279

[PurpleCorsair]

Patronize me here guys, because I truly am curious.  If the elevator video was illegal for purchase and for the NFL and Ravens to view per the NJ Attorney General...why was the video from outside the elevator not?  That video has been out for months now.

That video is not explicit evidence of a criminal act.

[ravens9273]

I have seen many complain as to why the Justice System did not do there part.

How could they let Ray walk on a plea deal.

 

I am going to cover that in this post.

 

Before I begin I will note. We are talking about a legal matter. Personal Opinion is not allowed in legal matters. Courts are based on Facts and evidence. A person cannot be convicted on personal opinion. With that said I am writing this based on how the legal system works. In no way shape or form does it mean I support domestic violence. I am merely helping those who do not understand why the court did not put Ray Rice in jail.

 

In a criminal case it is the responsibility of the Prosecution to prove a persons guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. This means there case has to cover all holes and leave nothing open that can be questioned for a conviction.

 

It is up to the defense to create any sort of reasonable doubt in the minds of a jury for acquittal.

 

Lets look at this case.

 

The Prosecution had a tall order in front of them to get Ray Rice found guilty of assault.

There is no question Ray's defense would have been Self Defense.

 

While public opinion feels a Man should never hit a Woman this does not fit in a court room. There are no special laws based on Men hitting Women. The law state no person may hit another. Sex does not matter. A Woman can just as easily be arrested and go to trial for striking a man. As stated above personal opinion has no place in a court room. You can guarantee this point would even have been emphansized by the defense to the jury during closing arguments.

 

The defense would have used the video of Janay hitting Ray first as self defense.

At this point it would have become a matter of who is the better lawyer that day.

 

The Prosecution would have tried something like "She hit him them walked away showing she was no longer a threat etc..."

It would have been a game of back and forth. Main point being the Prosecution did not have a strong enough case. They were playing 50/50 odds of winning.

Those odds turned to almost impossible once Janay deiced to stand behind Ray. They lost their star witness. In fact their start witness would have been a witness for the defense. If Janay said in court what she said in the Press conference Ray would have been acquitted. The Prosecution could never prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt.

 

The Prosecutions case was one already difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Losing Janay made it impossible.

They had no other choice then to offer a plea deal. The plea deal at least gave them some sort of a victory in this matter.

 

Had Janay never touched Ray the outcome would have been completely different. But she did, and she was the first. It was also caught on video. In a courtroom this changes everything.

 

As mentioned above. I left personal feelings out of this. Personal feelings and opinion are two separate things. The above is my opinion from the facts of the case as to how it would have played out in a court room, and as to why the Prosecutors offered  Ray the plea deal.

[jaege]

Facts? What are these odd things you refer to as "fact"? They have no place on the rumor-mongering, gossip-hound forum of guesses, innuendo, opinion and lies. (sarcasm)

 

 

How refreshing that there are a few that actually use just the facts.

 

Here is another, The Ravens as an organization are not investigators, nor are they required or even equipped to do any investigation into crimes committed by their employees. When Ray broke the law, they did what any business would do, let the authorities determine the crime and any associated punishment. Then they let the league mete out their brand of justice as per the CBA. Finally they accepted these judgments and tried to move on with their actual business, of presenting a product for their customers. What more should be expected of a business? Why should they be held to some higher moral standard than any other business?

[TheRavenouseD2008]

Due to other threads getting out of control I wanted to start a new one. This thread however is not like the others and reason I feel it deserved its own thread. I also did not want what I am going to write to end up lost in any number of 100's of pages to another thread.

 

I am a die hard Ravens fan. The whole situation with Ray Rice has gotten to me but probably in a different way then others. My post will be long. But I am here to clear up facts from Rumor. I would gladly stand up for the Ravens even in the press if need be. The Press has turned this into a circus.

The most shocking part is if people had basic understanding of our laws they would know the press is writing false stories.

 

All stories I have seen from the press have unnamed sources. This is your first red flag. We will cover this later as well.

 

The only OFFICIAL comment in this matter is from the Attorney General of New Jersey. The statement was as follows.

 

"Giving NFL casino elevator footage would have been illegal"

 

In criminal cases all evidence is sealed until the case is closed. This is the Law.

No one could distribute the video. The video is evidence to an open criminal investigation/case.

 

If you are asking how TMZ got it.

The incident occurred in the Revel Casino Atlantic City, NJ.

On September 2, 2014 The Revel Casino Closed it doors. No longer open for business.

You have a lot of ex employees. People out of work. TMZ has admitted to paying for the video.

The Casino itself did not give the video to TMZ. TMZ did not obtain the video from the state of New Jersey nor any law enforcement agency. Since the video was not obtained until after the Casino closed it is safe presume it was purchased from an ex employee.

TMZ being a News Company is protected by freedom of the press laws. As long as TMZ did not steal the video they are allowed to publish it even though it is evidence in an open case. TMZ is also protected from reveling their sources. They cannot be made to disclose who sold them the video.

The person who sold them the video did commit a criminal offense selling the video. This is why their name is not being mentioned.

This is how TMZ obtained the video.

 

By Law no one was allowed to give a copy of the video to the NFL or the Ravens. As the Attorney General of New Jersey has stated. Giving the video to the NFL would be illegal.

The NFL nor the Ravens are protected under Freedom of the Press laws. They cannot even purchase a copy of the video from an ex employee. If they had done so they could face criminal charges and be forced to expose who sold the video to them.

 

Our Laws clearly state there was no legal way the NFL or the Ravens could have obtained a copy. If they had it was illegal.

 

All the NFL and the Ravens had was a report, and statements from Ray Rice and his wife.

 

I have seen many comment that even if they did not see the video how could they make such a mistake.

I was at both the Ravens "Open Practice" and 1st preseason game vs. the 49ers.

I saw the cheers from the fans for Ray Rice. Those fans at that time (both Men and Women) already knew about the assault. They cheered in support.

How can the same people now condemn the Ravens for doing the same?

The Ravens and the NFL were given the same story the fans were.

The Ravens knew Ray Rice for many years. As fans we knew Ray Rice for many years.

No one would ever have thought Ray would have ever assaulted his Fiance' (at the time).

As fans we had no video. The Ravens had no video.

As fans we saw a press release with Ray and his wife. Ray apologized. His wife was taking blame saying she hit him as well. Weeks later as fans we cheered him on the field.

 

What the fans were given was the same the Ravens were given. The fans stood behind him until the video came out. (Do not comment if you were one who did not. In general most did. I am not here to discuss every single person. Majority supported him. I did not hear boos at the game or practice).

How can you condemn the Ravens for doing the same? They did not have the video. They had a report, Rays and Janay's statements and 6 years of knowing Ray's character to work with.

 

Over the last couple of days this story has turned into a witch hunt for Roger Goodell. All over it is being said the NFL either did have the video, Did not ask for the video, or ignored the video.

First being so many different stories you have to question them already as nothing more then press trying to stir up more nonsense for ratings.

 

Now if we go back to the beginning of my post does the law and the Attorney General already not tell us the NFL and Ravens could not receive a copy of the video? Do we really need to discuss this further? Simply there is no legal way they could posses the video. End of story. All the reports are officially false.

 

Today the AP had gotten jealous TMZ was getting all the attention that they had to invent the worst story of all.

 

Today the AP released a story stating the an unnamed source (once again an unnamed source) says they personally sent the video to the NFL and even had voicemail proof.

I cannot copy the article here but it is easy to find if you searched for it.

 

Lets go over this breaking news by the AP.

 

Unnamed source says he sent the video to the NFL 3 months ago (June).

The voice mail proof which is suppose to be a message thanking for the video and that "Yes it was terrible" to indicate the NFL reviewed the video was from April 9.

How can the NFL receive and watch a video in April that was mailed in June?

 

Lets move on.

 

Look how perfect the voice message was to incite anger.

The press is blaming Goodell for not punishing Rice enough, For lying about receiving the video etc..

Could the voice message be any more perfect to discredit him on all accounts?

Here is the brief voice message

 

"You're right. It's terrible!"

 

4 simple words perfectly designed to destroy Roger Goodell and the NFL.

 

Those 4 words state Goodell lied about receiving video.

Those 4 words state Goodell lied about seeing the video.

Those 4 words state Roger Goodell did not punish Ray properly.

 

How amazingly those 4 simple words cover all accusations against Roger Goodell. They are a little too perfect.

 

If the video was already in the hands of the NFL in April, and by the voice message viewed at that time. Why did it take Goodell until late July to issue Ray's punishment?

Ray and his wife visited Goodell in June. The video was not discussed. Had the NFL had the video and viewed it would Goodell not bring this up during the meeting?

 

The unnamed source in AP's article presents themselves as a Police Officer. yet they will not give their name. They also refused to give the name of the person at the NFL on the recording. The reason given by the unnamed source is that it was illegal to have given the video to the NFL.

Here we have the fact that it was illegal for the NFL to have the video.

But lets talk more about this comment.

The unnamed source stressed in this article they were afraid of being caught for sending the video to the NFL.

So this person is a Police Officer who takes a chance at destroying his lively hood, going to prison, all out of the kindness of his heart to give the NFL the video. Makes sense to you? Me either....

But wait. It still gets interesting.

This Police Officer does not want to get caught yet they keep documented proof to committing a crime. A Voice Message.

Do any of you keep a thank you voice message for 5 months? I know I do not and I also did not break any laws to keep evidence of around for so long. Honestly after 90 days they are automatically deleted from my accounts and it has been that way with every carrier I have ever had.

As bad as that all sounds there is still more...

The source does not want to get caught yet admits to the press under hidden identity they sent the video to the NFL. Well hidden source.. You gave yourself up already. NFL is not the press. They are not protected from reveling sources. All the New Jersey Attorney General has to do now is make the NFL give you up. Not such a smart move now huh?

 

AP provided no proof, contradicting story. They did not even provide an actual voice message.

The real proof here could easily have been a receipt from a shipping company of a package delivery.

If you were making up this story what would be the best way to do so without solid proof but passing it off as? You would come up with the very story given.

 

As the famous Judge Judy says all the time. "If it does not make sense it is not the truth".

The very laws of our own country and words of the New Jersey Attorney General show us the press is not being honest. They are making stories for ratings. Stop falling for them. Lets Support our Ravens.

 

 

Thank you I knew I was not Crazy on most of it  , it made 0 sense having been through a vawa case myself I know the rules .....

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