Raven Morals and Standards

[beasy2487]

I think we should have height requirements. Ray Lewis was undersized for his position...Ray Rice too... makes total sense.

[TheRavenouseD2008]

the guy for the 49ers is 6'4 explain that

[Purple Punishment]

Those fans that talk smack, when is the last time their team won a Super Bowl

[berad]

Those fans that talk smack, when is the last time their team won a Super Bowl

 

Madden, when the settings aren't above "Pro".

 

For the record, I don't think the Ravens should start weighting towards "choir boys" more so than they usually do. They should be focused on assembling a team with players who will help them win and, yes, that includes good behavior. Can't score TDs when you're in the courtroom or serving a suspension.

[Tank 92]

Madden, when the settings aren't above "Pro".

 

For the record, I don't think the Ravens should start weighting towards "choir boys" more so than they usually do. They should be focused on assembling a team with players who will help them win and, yes, that includes good behavior. Can't score TDs when you're in the courtroom or serving a suspension.

 

 

Agreed. I think they set a standard and communicate that to players they sign.  You really can't do much more than that and remain competitive.  The obvious trouble guys, even if rock stars, turn into locker room poison anyway. We most definitely steer away from that group.

[beasy2487]

the guy for the 49ers is 6'4 explain that

How dare you debunk my argument with logic and thought. Lol.

[RRRRRavens]

This fanbase applauded a woman abuser. We have no legs to stand on and deserve the hate coming our way. The sick way this topic has been discussed here and elsewhere has been appalling from the beginning.

 

You've got a lot of negs for your comments.  I wonder if you were misunderstood.  When you said "this fanbase applauded a woman abuser" were you referring to applause Ray has received in the past or since this incident has been known to us?

[RRRRRavens]

Yes, no one who ever knocked a woman out cold - particularly one in a relationship with him - should ever be shown support. Even if they say they're sorry. Take the sarcasm out and you've got a good point there.

 

But then how will they get well if we don't help them?  Following your logic we should just execute them, not reform them.  Is this what you really think? 

[RRRRRavens]

I think that's a little ridiculous. He's not our kid. Most of the posters on this forum are younger than him. He doesn't look to us to care for him and protect him. What if our kid was the one being beaten unconscious by a person with four times their strength? Does that change how you would think about it?

For the record, I am not that upset with the support he was shown. I just think your analogy is out of line.

 

His analogy was spot on!  To paraphrase a rather famous man about 2000 years ago "Even as ye do it to the least of these ye do it unto me".  This is exactly what he meant then.  We are ALL brothers.  We have all sinned.  We all need each other when we've made a mistake and we're trying to get our lives right.  The test of your humanity is not how you judge others but how you help them when they need you.

[TheRavenouseD2008]

His analogy was spot on!  To paraphrase a rather famous man about 2000 years ago "Even as ye do it to the least of these ye do it unto me".  This is exactly what he meant then.  We are ALL brothers.  We have all sinned.  We all need each other when we've made a mistake and we're trying to get our lives right.  The test of your humanity is not how you judge others but how you help them when they need you.

could not have said it better myself 

[beanfigger]

His analogy was spot on! To paraphrase a rather famous man about 2000 years ago "Even as ye do it to the least of these ye do it unto me". This is exactly what he meant then. We are ALL brothers. We have all sinned. We all need each other when we've made a mistake and we're trying to get our lives right. The test of your humanity is not how you judge others but how you help them when they need you.

Where did I say anything about judging others? I said I was okay with the support he was shown, but being "brothers" and being someone's parent is much different. I'm the last person who needs someone to quote scripture to him, but I appreciate your passion.

[5aiah]

But then how will they get well if we don't help them?  Following your logic we should just execute them, not reform them.  Is this what you really think? 

I really hope the Ravens use this situation as an opportunity to see just how great an organization they really are. Helping victims and spreading understanding and education of domestic abuse would do just that. I think Janay and Ray should be shown support, not just Ray. 

[RRRRRavens]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

Can we just talk about FOOTBALL?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!!?

 

I'm sorry but I think you're in the wrong forum.  This forum is specifically set up for "morals and standards".  There are plenty of other forums that discuss football only.  You'll probably be happier over there.

[1/28/01]

I'm sorry but I think you're in the wrong forum. This forum is specifically set up for "morals and standards". There are plenty of other forums that discuss football only. You'll probably be happier over there.

No, I'm good, but thanks whoever you are.

[RRRRRavens]

It's hard to do that when everywhere you turn (whether it's the TV, radio, etc) is talking so badly about our team.  YES, the FO made some mistakes, but I don't appreciate how the media (and a lot of the public) are making the FO out to be some sort of scheming, evil pigs.  Our FO is comprised of GOOD people with GOOD intentions. 

 

Ya know, Alaska, I want to think that too.  Before this week I thought they were good as well.  That was certainly their reputation in this town.  Now I'm not so sure.  Mind you I'm not doubting the good heart of Ozzie or Harbs.  But Bisciotti is making me wonder.  He admits he has never even personally interviewed Ray or his wife about this situation.  I can see Bisciotti's business sense in this but I'm not sure I can see his sense of courage or loyalty.  His sudden increase in outrage over seeing some pictures that he had already described to him strikes me as a bit phoney, an excuse for a business decision.  I could be wrong about this but I don't think so.  When you look at the size of the investment he has in the Ravens it must be very hard to make a decision based on the loyalty he has for his players.

[RRRRRavens]

We are talking about football here. We sign people to do one thing, play football. Everybody deserves a second chance. Nobody, including us will have a team full of SAINTS. They are all under contract already.

 

Indeed they are.  And they have a pretty good management team too.  Although the Ravens management team cannot be quite so "heavenly" I do wish they would endeavor to be more courageous and forgiving and a little less duplicitious about their motivations.

[Moderator 2]

We so need Billick to teach these guys how the PR game and bedazzling them with bovine skat is done they forgot why they are there. That is why he is so hated by the press, he did a heck of a job at Super Bowl 35 and got the team to focus only on football. It will be interesting to see how the Vikings handle their Running backs mess. The Ravens and Rice lost the PR game at the first press conference. Ostracizing RR and taking away his way to earn a living in NOT the way to help him, as far as we know he was a red star draft pick.

The "bad boy" players are cyclic unless you are the Bengals, look at the Steelers when Bad Ben was running around and Browns have some that have gotten into trouble, Ravens last Bad boy big name was in 2003. You are always going to get the standard 'we aware there was an incident with_______ and are looking in to it or waiting for the legal system process'

[Ravenseconbeast]

Patriots and Kraft/Billichick handling of Hernandez is praised(even though they knew he was gang affiliated) and seen as victims even though theyve done the same exact thing.

Greg Hardy and Ray Macdonald and AP. Where is troll olberman calling for owners/fans head on those calls? I Dont see any of these 3players apologizing and looking for counseling. Yet the ravens organization is the bad guy in all this.

[RRRRRavens]

I honestly think we do have a policy of trying to bring in guys of high moral fiber who are committed to public service in the community. I think that Harbs' and Ozzie's  emphasis on character has been evidenced by the last few off-seasons, and is not just lip-service.

 

No way any of the current mess could have been foreseen or prevented.

 

I don't think the current RR mess is a matter of moral fiber.  As I understand the facts so far a couple got very drunk, got in a quarrel, and in their state of drunkness started assaulting each other.  Since there is no history of violence before this between them (and indeed one of the participants has been campaigning against violence in children) this would seem to indicate that it was the alcohol doing the talking and not any basic lack of moral character.  So many of these other misconduct cases are related to alcohol as well.  I don't think the NFL has a domestic violence epidemic so much as it has an alcohol epidemic.  Absent alcohol and many of these cases go away.  If the NFL wants to make a big impact why don't they forgo all alcohol advertising and insist players remain abstinent during their years of NFL employment.  I know that's asking a lot but it shouldn't be impossible.  Not if you really care.

[MTRavensFan]

I don't think the current RR mess is a matter of moral fiber.  As I understand the facts so far a couple got very drunk, got in a quarrel, and in their state of drunkness started assaulting each other.  Since there is no history of violence before this between them (and indeed one of the participants has been campaigning against violence in children) this would seem to indicate that it was the alcohol doing the talking and not any basic lack of moral character.  So many of these other misconduct cases are related to alcohol as well.  I don't think the NFL has a domestic violence epidemic so much as it has an alcohol epidemic.  Absent alcohol and many of these cases go away.  If the NFL wants to make a big impact why don't they forgo all alcohol advertising and insist players remain abstinent during their years of NFL employment.  I know that's asking a lot but it shouldn't be impossible.  Not if you really care.

 

I can't disagree with you here.

And that is the crux of the issue - very good people sometimes do horrible things under the influence of alcohol. And sometimes those actions come with consequences you can't take back. Can you imagine how Josh Brent feels?

 

That is why these diversion programs were created, and abstention from alcohol is a mandatory part of them. Drink again, and you go to jail. The problem with what you're suggesting is that lots of people are capable of drinking responsibly. And not even all alcoholics are capable of violence, just massive self-destruction. You can't blame alcohol; people are ultimately responsible for what they do, drunk or not.

 

Although, I have thought often this summer (somewhat jokingly), it might not be a bad idea to start hosting AA meetings at the Castle 

[5aiah]

Ya know, Alaska, I want to think that too.  Before this week I thought they were good as well.  That was certainly their reputation in this town.  Now I'm not so sure.  Mind you I'm not doubting the good heart of Ozzie or Harbs.  But Bisciotti is making me wonder.  He admits he has never even personally interviewed Ray or his wife about this situation.  I can see Bisciotti's business sense in this but I'm not sure I can see his sense of courage or loyalty.  His sudden increase in outrage over seeing some pictures that he had already described to him strikes me as a bit phoney, an excuse for a business decision.  I could be wrong about this but I don't think so.  When you look at the size of the investment he has in the Ravens it must be very hard to make a decision based on the loyalty he has for his players.

Yeah it seems people aren't gonna agree with you or even meet you halfway but it did kinda seem like "oh crap the video is out now we are forced to do something".

Patriots and Kraft/Billichick handling of Hernandez is praised(even though they knew he was gang affiliated) and seen as victims even though theyve done the same exact thing.

Greg Hardy and Ray Macdonald and AP. Where is troll olberman calling for owners/fans head on those calls? I Dont see any of these 3players apologizing and looking for counseling. Yet the ravens organization is the bad guy in all this.

This is my biggest gripe with that situation. Ray Rice was a model guy up until then, but you can find articles talking about how Hernandez had coaches and officials at Florida worried about his gang ties. 

[frozen joe flacco fan]

The Ravens do not have a problem with their moral standards. It is well known that many of the players and coaches are men of great faith. Character counts. It's what you do when nobody's looking --- Colin Powell. Integrity means a lot too. It is well documented that our owner shows great loyalty to

his players until they betray his trust. The Ravens took the high road here and if they erred they erred on the side of caution. To bring Ray Rice back this year would have been a major distraction that

would bog down the entire team and would have detracted from the narrative we want to unfold, which

is a team that can overcome adversity. Most of the questions that arise about our morals and

standards come from other team's fans. Obviously, there is some hypocrisy out there among the

opposition's fanbases. The ones who want to dwell on this should take a long look at the "man in the mirror." It isn't the responsibility of the coach, the owner or the GM to ensure that all of our

players are model citizens. Individual responsibility is the key. Ozzie will continue to recruit character and not characters. Given that there is a lot of talent out there, character is more important for recruiting purposes. It is the NFL rather than the Ravens that really needs to take a serious

look at it's own morals and standards of conduct.

[SteelerStone]

I came from a family where there was plenty of domestic violence ,usually fueled by alcohol and/or drugs .

There were lots of cuts,bruises,welts ,hands through glasses,etc. My wife,before I met her ,had the police at her

house every other day for domestic violence once again fueled by alcohol. She would sit at 10 years old sometimes

in the closet for hours. Her half brother put her sister once in the hospital with a blow to the head.

 

I may be the first one on this forum to admit I was involved in domestic violence as a witness and as a participant.

 

I will never say that someone who did the horrific thing  should NOT be entitled to support.This

problem is usually very sadly passed down from generation to generation.It does not surprise me that heavy alchohol

use was involved in this incident.

 

I will support Ray and his family to overcome this horrible incident in which plenty of counseling will be needed.

This is a good post!  I think where the line gets crossed is when people make a decision to support or not support a person based solely on the NFL team he plays for.

[The Mom Gene]

As time has passed, and as the media has exploited this family through this incident, in most cases for their own profits;  i.e., Sports Illustrated, ESPN, all of the news networks, etc.... I have softened and have seen the revictimization of them over and over and over again, and know that what all of them have done is WRONG...

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/09/sports-illustrated-ray-rice-cover_n_5791744.html

(you don't have look, but it is a screenshot of the video on the cover of SI)...  I wouldn't even visit their site, and got the image from the Huff Post.  And not that they are much better, but the fact that there were plenty of sporting photos that they could have used for their cover, it just blew my mind......  As they have stated, "what it says about the NFL"?......  Well this is a society issue...  not an NFL issue.....

 

I just received my LAST Sports Illustrated...  I will not renew my subscription.

 

Regardless of how you feel about this situation, no one can agree with what they all have done.

[cobrajet]

Rice had no red flags before he was drafted, but I get what you are saying. On the flip side, Jimmy Smith had a lot of red flags and we brought him in and he is playing pretty darn good for us on the football field. Burfict, I believe, went undrafted because of red flags and he was picked up by the Bengals as an UDFA and has been reeking havoc all over the field for them. I don't think either one of them have had any major "off the field" issues since being drafted and may not. Do you take a chance and field the best team or do you pass on the player and possibly regret it. I guess that is something teams have to weigh in their war room. I would think that if you are looking for all saints then it might be difficult to field a winning football team, however on the flip side.....when you gamble and lose, you could have a lot of dead cap space. There is a huge gray area. With all that said.......and maybe I am biased, but it really does seem like the Ravens are the whipping boy when it comes to the media. Even after our Super Bowl win, instead of congratulating us on our victory, all the stories the next day were "how the 49ers were robbed" because of a possible non PI call even though it would have probably been a blowout had our momentum not been taken from us. I will admit, as a Ravens fan, this does grate my nerves a little.

[SteelerStone]

As time has passed, and as the media has exploited this family through this incident, in most cases for their own profits;  i.e., Sports Illustrated, ESPN, all of the news networks, etc.... I have softened and have seen the revictimization of them over and over and over again, and know that what all of them have done is WRONG...

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/09/sports-illustrated-ray-rice-cover_n_5791744.html

(you don't have look, but it is a screenshot of the video on the cover of SI)...  I wouldn't even visit their site, and got the image from the Huff Post.  And not that they are much better, but the fact that there were plenty of sporting photos that they could have used for their cover, it just blew my mind......  As they have stated, "what it says about the NFL"?......  Well this is a society issue...  not an NFL issue.....

 

I just received my LAST Sports Illustrated...  I will not renew my subscription.

 

Regardless of how you feel about this situation, no one can agree with what they all have done.

I'm not going to argue your position because I respect it but I am going to present the other side of a story that "NONE" of us know the reality of.

 

I can understand a split second reaction in a heated situation but RR maintained an egregious posture for minutes when he spit in her face twice, hit her, drug her around like she was a soiled rug, lied to security about what happened to her, etc.  And none of us will ever know why she chose to marry him at a time when it will always be suspected that she did it for financial reasons or to protect her right to refuse to testify against him.  I simply can't feel too sorry for anyone involved and that includes everyone from King Roger down to Mrs. RR. 

[jazz1988]

I'm not going to argue your position because I respect it but I am going to present the other side of a story that "NONE" of us know the reality of.

 

I can understand a split second reaction in a heated situation but RR maintained an egregious posture for minutes when he spit in her face twice, hit her, drug her around like she was a soiled rug, lied to security about what happened to her, etc.  And none of us will ever know why she chose to marry him at a time when it will always be suspected that she did it for financial reasons or to protect her right to refuse to testify against him.  I simply can't feel too sorry for anyone involved and that includes everyone from King Roger down to Mrs. RR. 

 

I definitely can understand Ray Rice actions if he was drunk and not sure if he spit on her can't really tell honestly. The idea that he lied to the security officer to me doesn't matter and not sure if it's true but it is what it is. Her choice to marry him wasn't really to protect her right to testify against him because to my understanding according to new jersey law they can use your spouse in a case  regardless of   marriage.

 

Harbaugh mention that Ray Rice told him that him and his wife were both drunk. I have heard stories from my family members about how certain people (those in my family or neighbors) would act towards their wife when intoxicated and some would even be chasing their wife outside and etc.You want to know how they stop doing these things well they just stop drinking. Alcohol is known to bring the worse out of some  people and if you a person whom knows that then just stop drinking. Rice lying, spitting, dragging his wife, hitting her, and more in my opinion isn't shocking at all if we talking about intoxicated man .

 

I think alot of people will question Janay reasons to  stay with Ray Rice and some would say its  because of money but these guys been together ever since high school and that's long time to be a with a man just for the money unless  she had the money eye back then and knew he was going to be star one day. I can completely understand her reason for staying with him if one she really loves him alot, two he deeply apologize for his actions to her, and three  they came to agreement that this was just one of those crazy nights where they both got too drunk and it wont happen again. 

[The Mom Gene]

I'm not going to argue your position because I respect it but I am going to present the other side of a story that "NONE" of us know the reality of.

 

I can understand a split second reaction in a heated situation but RR maintained an egregious posture for minutes when he spit in her face twice, hit her, drug her around like she was a soiled rug, lied to security about what happened to her, etc.  And none of us will ever know why she chose to marry him at a time when it will always be suspected that she did it for financial reasons or to protect her right to refuse to testify against him.  I simply can't feel too sorry for anyone involved and that includes everyone from King Roger down to Mrs. RR. 

If you had been a part of our community and known of their involvement, and the stellar reputation they all had...  His National Bullying Program, as well as programs all over the State of Maryland...  along with the simple fact that HER family stood behind him, chose to forgive him...  asserted that it had never happened before.... It is my opinion...  that... THEY DIDN'T DESERVE THIS TREATMENT.   She spit on him and hit him as well....  It's just as MTRavens had stated earlier... an exhorbitant amount of alcohol was involved... 2 large bottles.  And yeah, as we DON'T know every circumstance, we cannot judge... and that's exactly what this media has done...  They and many others have made him into this poster child for "wife beaters"...  like it's never happened before this.

 

Maybe she married him...  simply because they love each other.....  I mean they've been together since high school.

[SteelerStone]

If you had been a part of our community and known of their involvement, and the stellar reputation they all had...  His National Bullying Program, as well as programs all over the State of Maryland...  along with the simple fact that HER family stood behind him, chose to forgive him...  asserted that it had never happened before.... It is my opinion...  that... THEY DIDN'T DESERVE THIS TREATMENT.   She spit on him and hit him as well....  It's just as MTRavens had stated earlier... an exhorbitant amount of alcohol was involved... 2 large bottles.  And yeah, as we DON'T know every circumstance, we cannot judge... and that's exactly what this media has done...  They and many others have made him into this poster child for "wife beaters"...  like it's never happened before this.

 

Maybe she married him...  simply because they love each other.....  I mean they've been together since high school.

Oh, I agree that RR is being the scapegoat for an astronomical problem in the NFL for which he is not responsible......and I agree that you and the Ravens fans are better qualified to speak about Ray and his wife than I am.  And I am only presenting another side to this, I am not making it an issue between you and me, I respect your posts and the position you have, I just don't feel sorry for them. 

 

So I have to ask.....how can you take a statement made by RR and his wife about how much alcohol was involved and A. accept it as fact?, and B. allow that to make a difference?  They spit on each other in public, they hit each other in public, they lied about what happened.....but oh....they say there was a bunch of alcohol involved.....wheeew....I was worried there for a minute.  I don't get how that statement makes a difference?

 

As far as their being together since high school....there are obviously reasons why they weren't married before, they are a dysfunctional couple who decides to get married when this happens?    I don't have much hope or respect for that union.

[BirdWatcher]

Just for the record, Janay and Ray had a big wedding planned and scheduled before this happened. They just got married quietly and quickly afterwards. They still had a (smaller) reception on the planned date.