Raven Morals and Standards

[flynismo]

I would lose all respect for them and I'm not sure I could justify supporting them. I would love them, but tangible support for such a horrible act...don't think I could.

 

But that's incredibly besides the point. Ray Rice isn't my son, he's a grown man and is (was) a professional football player. If you view players on your favorite team the same way you do your children, you have some serious hero worship going on.

That's what you misunderstand, I am the polar opposite of a 'hero worshipper'. At the end of the day, watching a football game is no different than watching a movie....it's all just entertainment.

 

In retrospect, I think that was an unfair question to ask you. You presumably have never been in that position and hopefully never will, so you don't truly know the answer to that; and despite what you said above, I highly doubt that is what you would actually do.

 

That said, it is completely on point. Rice not being your kid has nothing to do with anything....condoning, or at least tolerating, bad behavior from your children, but not accepting it from others, would be hypocritical. Not supporting your children because of one mistake, even if it is a relatively severe one....that's not good parenting. And I know you'd have a tough time determining how much support is appropriate, but I truly doubt that if one of your children commited domestic violence, you would just cut them off like that. Look at Janay's father....if anyone besides Janay had the right to crucify Rice it was him....but he forgave Rice instead.

[flynismo]

I agree with all of this, but I certainly understand those who disagree. I still think it's a bad analogy, but there are some who would actually turn their back on their children after doing something they strongly disagree with. I am not one of those people, but I don't look down upon those who are.

You are also correct that in this particular case, it looks as though all deserve forgiveness. I also hope you saw my edit stating that I am not against the support that was shown. I just thought that was a bad analogy.

I did see your edit, and while I don't think it was a bad analogy, I do think it was a bit unfair of a question.

 

Me, personally, I do indeed look down on people who turn their backs on their children in anything but the most extreme cases. Certainly what Rice did was crap, but let's be real...it's not the end of the world either.

[beanfigger]

I did see your edit, and while I don't think it was a bad analogy, I do think it was a bit unfair of a question.

Me, personally, I do indeed look down on people who turn their backs on their children in anything but the most extreme cases. Certainly what Rice did was crap, but let's be real...it's not the end of the world either.

It is for some people, though. Some might consider this the worst kind of crime, and thus categorize it as an "extreme circumstance". Everyone has different values.

[flynismo]

It is for some people, though. Some might consider this the worst kind of crime, and thus categorize it as an "extreme circumstance". Everyone has different values.

 

I don't know how to respond to that without appearing to minimizing the seriousness of DV. It is more than just the physical attack of hitting someone....often, it ends up being a repetitive behavior that destroys families and scars children.

 

I'll just say that it is nowhere near as extreme as killing, raping, molesting, etc., especially in Rice's case, since we have no reason to believe he has ever done this before or will do it again in the future.

[Militant X 1]

You are dying over there, lol!

 

I have some pics of my Z that I'll be putting up soon in the car thread...I think I need to escape this madness too

 

I may go buy another car tonight just to post new pics of it and hang in the car thread as well. Ugh!

 

Guys!  Pleeeeeeaaaaassssseeee do that!!  This thread is depressing!  Smh!  Anyways....I got to go pack for my trip up to Baltimore in the morning for tomorrow night's game!  Need my rest so that I can hit the stadium with 70,000+ other cheering fans for our Ravens to get this "W."

 

Go Ravens!!

 

@Mili

[beanfigger]

I don't know how to respond to that without appearing to minimizing the seriousness of DV. It is more than just the physical attack of hitting someone....often, it ends up being a repetitive behavior that destroys families and scars children.

I'll just say that it is nowhere near as extreme as killing, raping, molesting, etc., especially in Rice's case, since we have no reason to believe he has ever done this before or will do it again in the future.

I wasn't looking to get an explanation from you. All those things you mentioned are committed by the worst kinds of people, not someone who got drunk and made a horrible mistake. I'm just saying some people draw the line in different places, especially when certain crimes like this have affected them personally. I'm not trying to make it seem like one side is better than the other, either. I just try not to make assumptions about others' values or make judgments about their actions regarding said values. (And please don't take this the wrong way like many on this board and believe that I am accusing you of doing this.)

[Tank 92]

Cleanest? Not a chance. i agree its hard to screen which is why some teams are devoting more effort than ever before. As for the publicity thing that's a tried and true raven fan company line bu its not actually that true. I don't think that many other teams have had more than us. Most teams do no get let off the hook, Minnesota still is a laughingstock due to the loveboat lol. The problem with Rice's was that he created a huge [profanity deleted]storm with the aftermath that played out in front of everyone. If Hardy is guilty he's going to get just punishment.

 

That stat is very interesting, would love to see how it holds up. I think we had at least three two by Suggs himself I'm sure.

 

Only need netflix and the net, TV is so 2000s. Lel. 

 

 

Yes, one of the cleanest.  Do a little casual research...... A few years ago pburgh had 4 players arrested for DV within 2 years. You're right though, all of this playing out everywhere in the media and on the net makes it worse for the Team, which is exactly my point. DV and many other crimes are commonly committed throughout the NFL, just not widely publicized.

 

bye the bye........ Hardy was found guilty.

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/07/15/5044910/panthers-greg-hardy-arrives-for.html#.VBGeZfldXK0

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/10/jerry-richardson-chokes-up-while-defending-inaction-on-greg-hardy/

[The Mom Gene]

Denver Broncos lead the NFL in Domestic Violence Arrests during Roger Goodell Era.

 

http://kdvr.com/2014/09/10/report-broncos-lead-nfl-in-domestic-violence-arrests-during-roger-goodell-era/comment-page-1/

[1/28/01]

Yes, one of the cleanest. Do a little casual research...... A few years ago pburgh had 4 players arrested for DV within 2 years. You're right though, all of this playing out everywhere in the media and on the net makes it worse for the Team, which is exactly my point. DV and many other crimes are commonly committed throughout the NFL, just not widely publicized.

bye the bye........ Hardy was found guilty.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/07/15/5044910/panthers-greg-hardy-arrives-for.html#.VBGeZfldXK0

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/10/jerry-richardson-chokes-up-while-defending-inaction-on-greg-hardy/

Tank, I wish I had your optimism and view when its something I love. I love the Ravens, but we are FAR from "one of the cleanest".

[Tank 92]

Tank, I wish I had your optimism and view when its something I love. I love the Ravens, but we are FAR from "one of the cleanest".

 

 

Not just blind optimism....... I know we had a bad run this year and that drops us a few ticks for now(whoa!), but if you check it out there are many teams that have had much more chronic issues in the past and there's a lot going on elsewhere now that isn't making headlines. I sincerely believe we do the best we can to not bring in the known "problem child", i.e. Hernandez and such.

[akacrow]

We forgive you Ray...... Sike!!!

[5aiah]

Not just blind optimism....... I know we had a bad run this year and that drops us a few ticks for now(whoa!), but if you check it out there are many teams that have had much more chronic issues in the past and there's a lot going on elsewhere now that isn't making headlines. I sincerely believe we do the best we can to not bring in the known "problem child", i.e. Hernandez and such.

I believe the Pats knew of his gang ties and just said screw it "we need this two TE offense to work". I don't think the Ravens would ever do that but the fact remains that we have some of the most high profile crimes associated with us. Cleanest is next to impossible for us.

 

Also even in your link it was said that Greg Hardy did not have his day in front of a jury. They are appealing and will have a jury trial after the season. 

[BirdWatcher]

Ray Carruth

[5aiah]

Ray Carruth

Jeez, I forgot about that guy. The Panthers are far from clean as well. 

[Blackbirds Rule]

Yes, no one who ever knocked a woman out cold - particularly one in a relationship with him - should ever be shown support. Even if they say they're sorry. Take the sarcasm out and you've got a good point there.

What if they knock a man out is everything okay then? What about shooting a person but the person is just grazed? What if they knock a kids drink out their hands and immediately apologize? What if the woman has an iron chin and is still standing afterwards is that okay?

 

Wrong is wrong but in some cases heat of the moment things happen and you say or do something that you didn't think you would. I think he should be shown support by allowing him to go on with his life. If it was a one time thing that never happens again I think he can and should be allowed to try to live a normal life. His wife, daughter, and family want to move on with it. Now if anything else happens with him especially another DV situation then no support or trust should be given. I really don't think you should be judged for the rest of your life by one very bad decision. I hear the you would think differently if it was your mom/sister/daughter. Well what if the person who did it was your father/brother/son? I think he should be allowed to earn back the trust from the many people who believed in him. that doesn't mean wear his jersey, or protest for him. It can simply mean stop bringing up his name and situation so that his family can try to move forward. Just my opinion.

[Tank 92]

I believe the Pats knew of his gang ties and just said screw it "we need this two TE offense to work". I don't think the Ravens would ever do that but the fact remains that we have some of the most high profile crimes associated with us. Cleanest is next to impossible for us.

 

Also even in your link it was said that Greg Hardy did not have his day in front of a jury. They are appealing and will have a jury trial after the season. 

 

By some, you mean two.  Correct?  One now and one 18 years ago. And the reason the most recent one is "high profile" is what? Because of the severity of the crime? Repeat offender? He was a known scum bag who's had issues before?  Similar and much worse have happened forever in the NFL and didn't get anywhere near this much "press". Methinks you are defining "cleanest" in the sense of exposure and media coverage, which I could give a rat's butt about.

 

And of course Hardy is appealing! What would you expect?  Fact remains he was convicted of DV and communicating threats.  Where's the TMZ expose talking about him dragging this woman around by the hair, throwing her in the bathtub and onto a futon covered with guns? Telling her he was going to kill her........... The Panthers are on the hook for $13 mil. and need Hardy to play. Will they suspend him?  If he were a ST player making rookie minimum, would they suspend him?

 

No need to answer the questions, but I hope you get my point.

[1/28/01]

By some, you mean two. Correct? One now and one 18 years ago. And the reason the most recent one is "high profile" is what? Because of the severity of the crime? Repeat offender? He was a known scum bag who's had issues before? Similar and much worse have happened forever in the NFL and didn't get anywhere near this much "press". Methinks you are defining "cleanest" in the sense of exposure and media coverage, which I could give a rat's butt about.

And of course Hardy is appealing! What would you expect? Fact remains he was convicted of DV and communicating threats. Where's the TMZ expose talking about him dragging this woman around by the hair, throwing her in the bathtub and onto a futon covered with guns? Telling her he was going to kill her........... The Panthers are on the hook for $13 mil. and need Hardy to play. Will they suspend him? If he were a ST player making rookie minimum, would they suspend him?

No need to answer the questions, but I hope you get my point.

No, no way we're "one of the cleanest".

Ray

Ray

Jamal

Suggs

Stallworth (although, not when with us)

The myriad of arrests this offseason

And some others that I dont feel like rehashing

Take the shades off. You live in those things

[5aiah]

No, no way we're "one of the cleanest".

Ray

Ray

Jamal

Suggs

Stallworth (although, not when with us)

The myriad of arrests this offseason

And some others that I dont feel like rehashing

Take the shades off. You live in those things

This is the point I've been making. People consider the Stallworth signing to be worse than the Jamal stuff. All Jamal did was try to get a mountain of drugs. I made it clear I wasn't just talking about drafting but any way of getting a player. Stallworth was a cheap,safe(financially speaking) player who had upside because of his speed. This is a prime example of the Ravens making a cold calculating move regardless of what trouble the person was in. I like all the moves we've made so im still not sure why people are acting like this is a inherently negative thread. 

[flynismo]

Bottom line is, it's a biznaz and they are trying to win games. Avoid the obvious red flag guys, and give those who deserve it another shot. Those are our morals and values. And I like it

[5aiah]

Bottom line is, it's a biznaz and they are trying to win games. Avoid the obvious red flag guys, and give those who deserve it another shot. Those are our morals and values. And I like it

I agree. I like how it's very logical and utilitarian compared to other more idealistic approaches yet not sleazy or as low standard as some others.

[berad]

This is the point I've been making. People consider the Stallworth signing to be worse than the Jamal stuff. All Jamal did was try to get a mountain of drugs. I made it clear I wasn't just talking about drafting but any way of getting a player. Stallworth was a cheap,safe(financially speaking) player who had upside because of his speed. This is a prime example of the Ravens making a cold calculating move regardless of what trouble the person was in. I like all the moves we've made so im still not sure why people are acting like this is a inherently negative thread. 

 

The guy wasn't in any trouble when we signed him, he had finished any legal issues and was off his 1-year suspension from the league. Stallworth was not a bad guy. This article sheds some light:

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/stallworth-cognizant-decisions-173700854--nfl.html

[jimmypowder]

Yes, no one who ever knocked a woman out cold - particularly one in a relationship with him - should ever be shown support. Even if they say they're sorry. Take the sarcasm out and you've got a good point there.

 

I came from a family where there was plenty of domestic violence ,usually fueled by alcohol and/or drugs .

There were lots of cuts,bruises,welts ,hands through glasses,etc. My wife,before I met her ,had the police at her

house every other day for domestic violence once again fueled by alcohol. She would sit at 10 years old sometimes

in the closet for hours. Her half brother put her sister once in the hospital with a blow to the head.

 

I may be the first one on this forum to admit I was involved in domestic violence as a witness and as a participant.

 

I will never say that someone who did the horrific thing  should NOT be entitled to support.This

problem is usually very sadly passed down from generation to generation.It does not surprise me that heavy alchohol

use was involved in this incident.

 

I will support Ray and his family to overcome this horrible incident in which plenty of counseling will be needed.

[Tank 92]

No, no way we're "one of the cleanest".

Ray

Ray

Jamal

Suggs

Stallworth (although, not when with us)

The myriad of arrests this offseason

And some others that I dont feel like rehashing

Take the shades off. You live in those things

 

 

Well, if you compare to other teams what you list ain't nuthin' over the course of 18 years.  

[1/28/01]

Well, if you compare to other teams what you list ain't nuthin' over the course of 18 years.

If you say so. Regardless, not one of the cleanest.

[Tank 92]

If you say so. Regardless, not one of the cleanest.

 

 

Ok we're dirty!  and I like my costa del mars.

 

Enough of this pontificating anyway.........let's kick some pburgh butts! 

[1/28/01]

Ok we're dirty! and I like my costa del mars.

Enough of this pontificating anyway.........let's kick some pburgh butts!

I don't like big words! Go Ravens!

[5aiah]

The guy wasn't in any trouble when we signed him, he had finished any legal issues and was off his 1-year suspension from the league. Stallworth was not a bad guy. This article sheds some light:

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/stallworth-cognizant-decisions-173700854--nfl.html

The last part doesn't conflict with my point about perception of the Ravens and how they work with people regardless of said perception. It does however add to my point about the Ravens not being as sleazy as some other teams are and how I love that they are about second chances. Obviously the "in trouble" refers to public perception and in that regard he was always "trouble or in trouble" after that incident and always will be.

[TheRavenouseD2008]

I....... ok pardon me but I have heard enough......... This fan base as degraded itself  This is what they want , They want us to not Rally behind Ray and Janay ,  They want us to Isolate them ,  People I believe some people make idiotic mistakes ,  they both admitted to it .   

 

To those so willing to dump a man when he is down realize to do that your'e doing it to his Wife and Daughter too.  For Shame where is your moral Compass.  Chris Canty said it best - It is so EASY to point the blame ,  But so difficult to offer help and support.  Tell me would you like it if some one did that to you when you were at a low point . Ask yourself in a similar situation if it happened would you be able to stand alone , Ridiculed bad mouthed ,  His daughter even at her age will never live this down because people wont let her same with Janay and Ray.   When is enough enough man when do we see them as people , get off our soap box and care for one another again .  We wanted to be known as the BEST fan base ,  For baseball we are , for football I am seeing the opposite from many people.  Come on Charm City we are better then this , where is that blue collar Family mentality we used to have , where is that mentality when a neighbor is down the community rallies support .  Have we gone so far from our base values..........

[berad]

The last part doesn't conflict with my point about perception of the Ravens and how they work with people regardless of said perception. It does however add to my point about the Ravens not being as sleazy as some other teams are and how I love that they are about second chances. Obviously the "in trouble" refers to public perception and in that regard he was always "trouble or in trouble" after that incident and always will be.

 

Wasn't saying you did or disagreeing with you. Just pointing out that Stallworth had served his NFL suspension and legal obligations.

[AsianRice]

Here are my thoughts about this situation...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We will whoop butt the Steelers!!!