Raven Morals and Standards

[5aiah]

Every sports team and every city has problems similar to the Ravens problems. Women in sports aren't always angels either. Weather the storm, try to remedy the problem, move on, get over it.

Ravens are clearly ahead of most teams in these sort of problems, this isn't some first time occurrence. We get hit with a big one like every three years.

 

I honestly think we do have a policy of trying to bring in guys of high moral fiber who are committed to public service in the community. I think that Harbs' and Ozzie's  emphasis on character has been evidenced by the last few off-seasons, and is not just lip-service.

 

No way any of the current mess could have been foreseen or prevented.

I agree, I wish more people would see this instead of focusing on the negative. We have some guys that can really help the community..

[Inqui]

That's my point, and why I asked for him to be left out of the conversation in regards to who we bring in. Also he likely lied to the Ravens to get their full support so leave him off the "standby by and support criminal" list as well. The debate is over the Ravens tendency to either bring in troubled players or stand by their own who have gotten in trouble and/or have character problems and the fans and how we cheer for them.

That comes back to my second question then, who've we had in trouble recently? And how did the FO take a risk on them? Jah Reid I think is the only one who comes to mind (I don't count Lorenzo, given he paid for the window and didn't actually hurt anyone otherwise), and then you have guys like Asa and - from memory - Deonte whose issues are literally prevalent in every franchise.

[5aiah]

That comes back to my second question then, who've we had in trouble recently? And how did the FO take a risk on them? Jah Reid I think is the only one who comes to mind (I don't count Lorenzo, given he paid for the window and didn't actually hurt anyone otherwise), and then you have guys like Asa and - from memory - Deonte whose issues are literally prevalent in every franchise.

I'm not talking just recently but going back to the beginning. Also your just thinking draft picks when we've brought in guys like Rolando McClain.

[edthehead]

So if one of your kids were to do this, you'd turn your back on them? Nice

dude,the way this person sounds,,they have no kids probably a bunch of cats or action figures,,either way still a lil crazy,, 

[izvoodoo]

That's a weird standard.  Ray Rice had an impeccable character before this horrible event.  

[The Mom Gene]

This isn't really about Ray Rice and his troubles. It's about serious conversation about us bringing in guys who were risks before they got here and our reputation as a team that will look to field the best team regardless of an moral complications. Rice was a model guy by all accounts before he got here and he was coming off of a down year when he was cut, he factors into the conversation but isn't a big part of it. Leave the Rice stuff for the other thread.

This organization has been deemed by just about everybody inside and outside the league... from top to bottom as a first class organization...  I would never say that we have a reputation of thuggery... AT ALL...  especially when you look at other teams like the Bengalis, Cowboys, and even the Raiders.  Come on, people...  This is a guy who has been a stellar citizen and player.  He has put thousands and thousands of hours in of community service, and heads up one of the best anti-bullying campaigns...  We act like this is status quo for our team...  Bottom Line...  IT'S NOT.

[The Mom Gene]

That's a weird standard.  Ray Rice had an impeccable character before this horrible event.  

IZ...  You are correct!

[Inqui]

I'm not talking just recently but going back to the beginning. Also your just thinking draft picks when we've brought in guys like Rolando McClain.

That's part of the problem then. Since Billick's departure there's been a huge change in who the franchise picks up and how it runs. Hell, in the offseason following the Superb Owl win, Harbaugh was accused of jettisoning people who weren't choirboys who fitted under his thumb.

 

McClain we tried out to see if he could turn his life around, and sent him to Dallas when he couldn't. I would't read too much into that as we wouldn't even be having this conversation without Rice.

[ratedr]

With all that said, I agree with this. The applause and some of the comments being thrown around were a bit disconcerting. The situation will die down (and like I say, I don't think there's anything particularly bad about the Ravens compared to any other franchise), but it was handled terribly by everyone from the get-go and, as much as I hate to say it, we deserve to weather the hate for the time being.

Agree with this as well.

[izvoodoo]

That's part of the problem then. Since Billick's departure there's been a huge change in who the franchise picks up and how it runs. Hell, in the offseason following the Superb Owl win, Harbaugh was accused of jettisoning people who weren't choirboys who fitted under his thumb.

 

McClain we tried out to see if he could turn his life around, and sent him to Dallas when he couldn't. I would't read too much into that as we wouldn't even be having this conversation without Rice.

Also in that offseason I think we didn't have an arrest in 2 years.

[BmoreBird22]

The only reason this moral issue is being brought up is because of Ray Rice. Before this whole incident, most people would have considered the Ravens a model organization.

 

Ray Rice is bringing way more heat to other small problems. I was reading an article today that trashed Ray Rice and then mentioned that another running back got arrested, in the same sentence. Didn't say what LT did or that he paid for his mistake almost immediately, just that he had been arrested as to create this idea that he did something horrible. No one would have talked about Jimmy Smith's issue, or Jah Reid's (most people didn't anyway), or any of the others IF it were not for Ray Rice.

 

No, the Ravens don't have some issue with character or the personalities that they bring in. They do their due diligence, as shown with Jimmy Smith who only recently had a small altercation. The Ravens truly do their best to avoid players that they deem as being good character guys, and get really excited when they get a "red star" prospect, which is a high skill player on top of a very high character guy. 

 

I don't think the Ravens should change what they're doing at all. Ray Rice's incidence is blowing everything out of proportion, but at the end of the day, these guys are paid to play football, not be perfect human beings that are role model for all the kids or people out there. If they are role models and willing to volunteer and help in the community, great, but a lot of them aren't like that. The Ravens are definitely one of the better organizations with how much players are willing to go out and volunteer and help the community in any way possible. 

[The Mom Gene]

I honestly think we do have a policy of trying to bring in guys of high moral fiber who are committed to public service in the community. I think that Harbs' and Ozzie's  emphasis on character has been evidenced by the last few off-seasons, and is not just lip-service.

 

No way any of the current mess could have been foreseen or prevented.

Yup

[BirdWatcher]

The only thing the Ravens should change is the way they handle investigations. They need to do all possible due diligence and then stay the course on what they decide based on those results.

[The Mom Gene]

There's more of them out there than just Ray Rice.

We all know of two more that were on the field just this past Sunday.

[The Mom Gene]

We are talking about football here. We sign people to do one thing, play football. Everybody deserves a second chance. Nobody, including us will have a team full of SAINTS. They are all under contract already.

:.. and were fined and suspended for a bounty program....

[IH EART DA RAVENS]

So if one of your kids were to do this, you'd turn your back on them? Nice

I would lose all respect for them and I'm not sure I could justify supporting them. I would love them, but tangible support for such a horrible act...don't think I could.

 

But that's incredibly besides the point. Ray Rice isn't my son, he's a grown man and is (was) a professional football player. If you view players on your favorite team the same way you do your children, you have some serious hero worship going on.

[5aiah]

This organization has been deemed by just about everybody inside and outside the league... from top to bottom as a first class organization...  I would never say that we have a reputation of thuggery... AT ALL...  especially when you look at other teams like the Bengalis, Cowboys, and even the Raiders.  Come on, people...  This is a guy who has been a stellar citizen and player.  He has put thousands and thousands of hours in of community service, and heads up one of the best anti-bullying campaigns...  We act like this is status quo for our team...  Bottom Line...  IT'S NOT.

I don't think we are. I think its a reputation that just happens to stick with us and its the first thing people who aren't fans think of. That being said of those teams you mentioned the Ravens are right there with them. The Bengals were drifting away from that until they grabbed Burfict, who turned out to be a stud. That's the philosophical debate that needs to be had going forward. Will Burficts continue to be picked up and do they need babysitting.

[The Mom Gene]

I don't think we are. I think its a reputation that just happens to stick with us and its the first thing people who aren't fans think of. That being said of those teams you mentioned the Ravens are right there with them. The Bengals were drifting away from that until they grabbed Burfict, who turned out to be a stud. That's the philosophical debate that needs to be had going forward. Will Burficts continue to be picked up and do they need babysitting.

First of all,,,   that's your opinion...  second the Bengals had 6 felons on their team at once just a couple of years ago...  NO, we aren't right there with them.  Your opinion is just that..  but unfounded....  No, but guys like Burdick carries his over to the field... stud or not...  We don't bring in guys like him...  we get rid of those guys...and guys like Pacman Jones are still out there, and I would say that he's 10 times worst than ANY Ravens player...  I could name quite a few others.  I'm just mot going to waste anymore of my time on this stuff.  It's just crazy talk going on here...

[MTRavensFan]

I don't think we are. I think its a reputation that just happens to stick with us and its the first thing people who aren't fans think of. That being said of those teams you mentioned the Ravens are right there with them. The Bengals were drifting away from that until they grabbed Burfict, who turned out to be a stud. That's the philosophical debate that needs to be had going forward. Will Burficts continue to be picked up and do they need babysitting.

 

Dez Bryant rules? Seems to be working for him.

 

I think people are way too concerned that this somehow reflects personally on THEMSELVES, which couldn't be further from the truth. If your sense of self is determined by other's actions, much less your support for a sports team, you're in trouble.

[beanfigger]

He said NOBODY should be shown support. My question stands as asked. And if he responds that he would still support his child in some way, then why does Rice not deserve the same, regardless of who's crotch he came out of? Are you telling me that I should only show empathy and compassion for my children, but nobody else? I certainly hope not.

Also, to answer your question if my kid were the victim here, I don't know how I would react to that. I have never been in that position. But I am a realistic and forgiving person, so I would likely evaluate the situation, all of it, before making any decisions. If I were Janay's dad, I likely would have forgiven Ray as well.

I agree with all of this, but I certainly understand those who disagree. I still think it's a bad analogy, but there are some who would actually turn their back on their children after doing something they strongly disagree with. I am not one of those people, but I don't look down upon those who are.

You are also correct that in this particular case, it looks as though all deserve forgiveness. I also hope you saw my edit stating that I am not against the support that was shown. I just thought that was a bad analogy.

[5aiah]

The only reason this moral issue is being brought up is because of Ray Rice. Before this whole incident, most people would have considered the Ravens a model organization.

Model as in rational and calculating and doing whatever it takes to win, but certainly not in terms of morality and/or "doing things the right way". The Ravens definitely were cleaning it up for a while after Suggs and the bleach incident but the people that still think of the Ravens as thugs are still the majority. Ray Lewis was the face and he is considered a thug and a "false priest" outside of us. hell the deer antler thing made it so people wouldn't even let Ray go out on top clean.

 

 

First of all,,,   that's your opinion...  second the Bengals had 6 felons on their team at once just a couple of years ago...  NO, we aren't right there with them.  Your opinion is just that..  but unfounded....  No, but guys like Burdick carries his over to the field... stud or not...  We don't bring in guys like him...  we get rid of those guys...and guys like Pacman Jones are still out there, and I would say that he's 10 times worst than ANY Ravens player...  I could name quite a few others.  I'm just mot going to waste anymore of my time on this stuff.  It's just crazy talk going on here...

Which is opinion? That NFL fans outside of Baltimore associate the Ravens with thuggery? That's kind of a fact. Maybe I spend more time debating with other teams fans but they are quick to call us the "raiders with two rings". Also I would say your opinion is unfounded considering Suggs previous conflicts. Also this isn't a contest or a put down of who has the more troubled players, its a debate on whether Rice's incident will change the way people take risks just like Hernandez's did. No need to get all defensive, not one crazy thing was said here. Jeez....

[ravensdfan]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

Can we just talk about FOOTBALL?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!!?

 

Amen.

[BmoreBird22]

Model as in rational and calculating and doing whatever it takes to win, but certainly not in terms of morality and/or "doing things the right way". The Ravens definitely were cleaning it up for a while after Suggs and the bleach incident but the people that still think of the Ravens as thugs are still the majority. Ray Lewis was the face and he is considered a thug and a "false priest" outside of us. hell the deer antler thing made it so people wouldn't even let Ray go out on top clean.

I meant the experts, organizations, and players around the league. Most people who say all that stuff are too ignorant to actually do research and think it's easier to call Lewis a murderer than do their own research.

[5aiah]

Dez Bryant rules? Seems to be working for him.

I think people are way too concerned that this somehow reflects personally on THEMSELVES, which couldn't be further from the truth. If your sense of self is determined by other's actions, much less your support for a sports team, you're in trouble.

Yeah the Dez Bryant rules, should that become more widespread? Also I agree and I think that's the reason people are so defensive over how the Ravens are seen, they think it somehow reflects on them personally so they refuse to see the truth about how our team looks to others. Sure, my friends sometimes make fun of the "Jailbirds" but that doesn't make me an immoral person.

I meant the experts, organizations, and players around the league. Most people who say all that stuff are too ignorant to actually do research and think it's easier to call Lewis a murderer than do their own research.

Absolutely, its unfortunate the latter is the majority in this country.

[BmoreBird22]

Absolutely, its unfortunate the latter is the majority in this country.

Why do research when you can make a sensational comment with no backing that most people won't check? It's the easy route to make ignorant comments

[Tank 92]

lol...... I would venture to guess that over the course of the past 18 years the Ravens have been one of the "cleanest" teams out there. We generally shy away from the problem players and there's no way to completely screen someone prior to inviting them into the fold. I haven't done any research on the subject   but I guarantee each and every team in the NFL has had issues like we have faced and more, they just aren't publicized. We've been the poster child in the media since Ray Ray's problems and seem to get a lot of bad press. Where's the TMZ report(that I would never see) about Hardy? Why isn't that being reported when I turn on ESPN or NFLN?

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/07/15/5044910/panthers-greg-hardy-arrives-for.html#.VBDn5_ldXK0

 

Any time you have 60 people in a room that were chosen for their athletic talents, at some point in some of their lives there will be issues. Especially young guys who instantly become wealthy. I think we've done a pretty good job at keeping the obvious "trouble waiting to happen" guys out of Bmore. But ultimately, you can't avoid the occasional trouble.

 

Riding home this evening I heard this woman on the radio mention that 55% of the reported crimes committed by NFL players is DV.  We've had what, two that we know of? How many of those other attacks have been reported by any national media outlet?  

 

Calm down and stop watching TV for a while. Things will be OK. 

 

 

  

[Rav'n Maniac]

:.. and were fined and suspended for a bounty program....

Sorry Mom, I was referring to the heavenly ones. lol

[5aiah]

lol...... I would venture to guess that over the course of the past 18 years the Ravens have been one of the "cleanest" teams out there. We generally shy away from the problem players and there's no way to completely screen someone prior to inviting them into the fold. I haven't done any research on the subject   but I guarantee each and every team in the NFL has had issues like we have faced and more, they just aren't publicized. We've been the poster child in the media since Ray Ray's problems and seem to get a lot of bad press. Where's the TMZ report(that I would never see) about Hardy? Why isn't that being reported when I turn on ESPN or NFLN?

 

 

Any time you have 60 people in a room that were chosen for their athletic talents, at some point in some of their lives there will be issues. Especially young guys who instantly become wealthy. I think we've done a pretty good job at keeping the obvious "trouble waiting to happen" guys out of Bmore. But ultimately, you can't avoid the occasional trouble.

 

Riding home this evening I heard this woman on the radio mention that 55% of the reported crimes committed by NFL players is DV.  We've had what, two that we know of? How many of those other attacks have been reported by any national media outlet?  

 

Calm down and stop watching TV for a while. Things will be OK. 

 

Cleanest? Not a chance. i agree its hard to screen which is why some teams are devoting more effort than ever before. As for the publicity thing that's a tried and true raven fan company line bu its not actually that true. I don't think that many other teams have had more than us. Most teams do no get let off the hook, Minnesota still is a laughingstock due to the loveboat lol. The problem with Rice's was that he created a huge [profanity deleted]storm with the aftermath that played out in front of everyone. If Hardy is guilty he's going to get just punishment.

 

That stat is very interesting, would love to see how it holds up. I think we had at least three two by Suggs himself I'm sure.

 

Only need netflix and the net, TV is so 2000s. Lel. 

[Zealotes]

As a diehard fan from the other side of the world who has been to games at M&T, I sensed in my time in the states that there was a 'dis Baltimore' culture abroad, especially in the media. I like it when underdogs from tough towns show the big end of town how it's done in winning 2 Superbowl rings. I like the Ravens team spirit. I like their public faith and spirituality. I like their guts, courage and physical football. I like their coach - a man of principle - and I like their exec. staff. I hate trial by media...a phenomenon of our times. Love, peace and forgiveness rock!

[5aiah]

As a diehard fan from the other side of the world who has been to games at M&T, I sensed in my time in the states that there was a 'dis Baltimore' culture abroad, especially in the media. I like it when underdogs from tough towns show the big end of town how it's done in winning 2 Superbowl rings. I like the Ravens team spirit. I like their public faith and spirituality. I like their guts, courage and physical football. I like their coach - a man of principle - and I like their exec. staff. I hate trial by media...a phenomenon of our times. Love, peace and forgiveness rock!

I think forgiveness and second chances need to be at the forefront when we talk about the troubles of some Ravens players.