Arthur Brown Trade Rumors

[GrimCoconut]

Right now, Brown hasn't proven to be anything on the field, really. Sure, he showed up nicely in the preseason because we know how much that matters. He hasn't proven to be anything special in the regular season, which is where it counts. Let's hold off on the possible top 10 until he actually plays meaningful snaps.

As for Sproles, I know you're worried about him being 31, which is usually a bad sign for running backs, but try to consider he's had 450 career carries and like 350 career receptions. He's had less than 1000 touches, and only like 60% were actual runs, so it's not like he's been taking an actual beating. It's not crazy to think he could go for three more years.

You'd be crazy to think the Eagles would offer a third rounder plus one of the most electric returners and receiving backs in the league. I'm not advocating for this trade, but let's be realistic

Oh no, Arthur Brown could be a bust. No allusions or projections on my part. He just has that potential like any LB taken in the top two rounds. I didn't mean for it to sound differently. And as for Sproles and a 3rd for Brown, that's less what I think will happen and more what I think should happen. I guess I'm ultimately saying it doesn't make sense to get rid of Brown for pennies on the dollar. While you make a good argument for Darren, he's an older RB and I just wouldn't trade Brown for him and a low draft pick. It's not worth it. I'd rather risk Brown being a bust.

[rmw10]

I wouldn't even touch Sproles even though he looked great last night. He has way too many concussions for my liking.

[The Raven]

Trading Arthur Brown for Sproles would be idiotic.

 

No, we're not trading him. Not unless we're getting some serious, big time value in return. Like it would have to be a proven starter and a middle round pick for Ozzie to trade Brown. Maybe more.

[BmoreBird22]

Oh no, Arthur Brown could be a bust. No allusions or projections on my part. He just has that potential like any LB taken in the top two rounds. I didn't mean for it to sound differently. And as for Sproles and a 3rd for Brown, that's less what I think will happen and more what I think should happen. I guess I'm ultimately saying it doesn't make sense to get rid of Brown for pennies on the dollar. While you make a good argument for Darren, he's an older RB and I just wouldn't trade Brown for him and a low draft pick. It's not worth it. I'd rather risk Brown being a bust.

With how strong the upcoming running back class is, I'd have no problem waiting. Forsett and Pierce haven't been bad by an stretch and LT could still get valuable reps soon. I see no reason to sweat about trading for a running back you may get three years out of when you can draft someone like Gurley or Yeldon and get like eight, nine good years

[rmcjacket23]

I think far too many of you are 1. overvaluing Arthur Brown and 2. severely overvaluing what you could get for him in a trade.

 

I'd start with a 3rd or 4th round pick, and work your way back from there. Any team that wanted to trade for him would be doing it purely on speculation and potential, and speculation and potential don't generally get traded for using quality draft picks or quality current players.

 

In my opinion, he's a career backup MLB who will likely get the opportunity to compete for a starting job if we move on for Daryl Smith in the next year or two. If not, he likely leaves as a FA. Like has happened so many times on these boards lately, Ravens FANS are severely overestimating our depth at certain positions. They think our backup players are like elite starters on many teams in this league, and that's far from the case.

 

We see how frequently our bench players become starters, then get overpaid in FA, and never contribute half of what they gave us elsewhere. If this franchise had really any inkling that Art Brown was probably more than a long-term backup, I don't see the franchise bringing Daryl Smith back and/or drafting CJ Mosley.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

I don't think it has to do with the team evaluating CJ Mosley and his health. We wouldn't have drafted him if we were really concerned about his shoulder, knee, elbow or whatever. It's silly to suggest that's why Brown is still here. I don't think CJ is a better fit at all. Brown and Mosley essentially bring similar skills, but one is better against the pass and one is better against the run. I don't think Mosley demonstrated more potential than Brown, either. Brown showed some really nice potential. 

 

I think Smith is starting to slow down, so it will be nice to have a guy to replace him next year or the year after. That time is coming, and Daryl's deal is very apparent of that possibility. I'm not sure that we are truly trading Brown or not. It's so hard to predict. It's very strange he hasn't been active. I really can't explain it, and it could very well suggest a trade. I just don't know. 

What was said is that CJ is a better fit for the current scheme. That really deals with needing additional speed on that side of the defense. True, CJ and Authur have equal potential and both will have great professional futures; however, you have to look at this season. D Smith is the play-caller and a proven veteran asset. Authur has proven his potential in the Ravens know this. On the other hand, CJ has equal potential, more speed and his skill set is slightly more urgent in the current line-up (more potential for this season). That's not silly. That makes complete sense. And yes, every team has to assess any high drafted player that's had multiple injuries in college. So, why not play a 3 down LB with 'big' play ability as much as possible to see what happens?

The Ravens are in a win-win situation. There's no urgency or panic. They aren't looking to trade Authur right now, because it's too early in the season to know what positions need to be addressed.

 

Every team in the league already knows Authur's potential. He is an asset that won't change and could be implanted into the line-up at anytime or traded for needs at anytime.

[RobFuseRaven]

I think far too many of you are 1. overvaluing Arthur Brown and 2. severely overvaluing what you could get for him in a trade.

 

I'd start with a 3rd or 4th round pick, and work your way back from there. Any team that wanted to trade for him would be doing it purely on speculation and potential, and speculation and potential don't generally get traded for using quality draft picks or quality current players.

 

In my opinion, he's a career backup MLB who will likely get the opportunity to compete for a starting job if we move on for Daryl Smith in the next year or two. If not, he likely leaves as a FA. Like has happened so many times on these boards lately, Ravens FANS are severely overestimating our depth at certain positions. They think our backup players are like elite starters on many teams in this league, and that's far from the case.

 

We see how frequently our bench players become starters, then get overpaid in FA, and never contribute half of what they gave us elsewhere. If this franchise had really any inkling that Art Brown was probably more than a long-term backup, I don't see the franchise bringing Daryl Smith back and/or drafting CJ Mosley.

 

I think it's too early to say he is a career backup MLB. As far as overvaluing him, it's not really too much of a stretch to think we deserve something substantial for him if he's going to be traded. A 6th round pick was traded in order to go up into the 2nd round to grab him. That is a 2nd and a 6th already spent on him and it's ONLY his second year. I believe our staff when they say that he has taken a significant leap since last year. He has a very high ceiling and he should be a great player for years to come. Only the front office knows why he isn't being suited up, but I really don't think it has anything to do with talent.

[GrimCoconut]

I think far too many of you are 1. overvaluing Arthur Brown and 2. severely overvaluing what you could get for him in a trade.

 

I'd start with a 3rd or 4th round pick, and work your way back from there. Any team that wanted to trade for him would be doing it purely on speculation and potential, and speculation and potential don't generally get traded for using quality draft picks or quality current players.

 

In my opinion, he's a career backup MLB who will likely get the opportunity to compete for a starting job if we move on for Daryl Smith in the next year or two. If not, he likely leaves as a FA. Like has happened so many times on these boards lately, Ravens FANS are severely overestimating our depth at certain positions. They think our backup players are like elite starters on many teams in this league, and that's far from the case.

 

We see how frequently our bench players become starters, then get overpaid in FA, and never contribute half of what they gave us elsewhere. If this franchise had really any inkling that Art Brown was probably more than a long-term backup, I don't see the franchise bringing Daryl Smith back and/or drafting CJ Mosley.

Well, first of all, no doubt we've overvalued him. The Ravens just invested a 2nd and a 6th round pick into the guy. That's two coveted draft picks we invested into a player to surrender him the very next season? That's hardly enough time, especially considering that Brown was considered a player who needed to get up to speed anyway. While many have possibly overvalued him, I'd say you're just as extreme undervaluing him if you're predicting a sophomore player as a career back-up who will likely leave after his rookie deal expires. 

 

Smith was brought back before we drafted Mosley. The assumption was that Daryl and Brown would likely play together as starters. Mosley was great value and we didn't pass on the value because the same position was drafted a year prior. Sometimes, you need to prepare for the future. Granted, a rookie started above a sophomore in this case, Mosley vs Brown, but it's not like Brown is some bum, either.

 

I think you're making some serious and frankly baseless assumptions. 

[FlocksGottaFeed]

The media takes what they hear and spins it how they want.  All of these rumors were debunked almost immediately afterwards.  Other team's interest in Brown somehow turned into us being interested in trading him.

 

Now, he could still be dealt.  However, it's the media that has made this a rumor.

Agreed. The media has played a big role. I also believe that the Ravens FO has encouraged this to some respect starting last season. Remember all of the Ravens updates and press releases reporting Authur's potential and ending with "What to do with him going into the future?". They were testing the market reaction then and smartly building stock. It's business 101. Every team practices this. You have to have 'that' player that is available for future inquiries. Authur will be okay.

[GrimCoconut]

What was said is that CJ is a better fit for the current scheme. That really deals with needing additional speed on that side of the defense. True, CJ and Authur have equal potential and both will have great professional futures; however, you have to look at this season. D Smith is the play-caller and a proven veteran asset. Authur has proven his potential in the Ravens know this. On the other hand, CJ has equal potential, more speed and his skill set is slightly more urgent in the current line-up (more potential for this season). That's not silly. That makes complete sense. And yes, every team has to assess any high drafted player that's had multiple injuries in college. So, why not play a 3 down LB with 'big' play ability as much as possible to see what happens?

The Ravens are in a win-win situation. There's no urgency or panic. They aren't looking to trade Authur right now, because it's too early in the season to know what positions need to be addressed.

 

Every team in the league already knows Authur's potential. He is an asset that won't change and could be implanted into the line-up at anytime or traded for needs at anytime.

I

 

What was said is that CJ is a better fit for the current scheme. That really deals with needing additional speed on that side of the defense. True, CJ and Authur have equal potential and both will have great professional futures; however, you have to look at this season. D Smith is the play-caller and a proven veteran asset. Authur has proven his potential in the Ravens know this. On the other hand, CJ has equal potential, more speed and his skill set is slightly more urgent in the current line-up (more potential for this season). That's not silly. That makes complete sense. And yes, every team has to assess any high drafted player that's had multiple injuries in college. So, why not play a 3 down LB with 'big' play ability as much as possible to see what happens?

The Ravens are in a win-win situation. There's no urgency or panic. They aren't looking to trade Authur right now, because it's too early in the season to know what positions need to be addressed.

 

Every team in the league already knows Authur's potential. He is an asset that won't change and could be implanted into the line-up at anytime or traded for needs at anytime.

 I don't think he is. I think Brown and Mosley are somewhat similar players, with one slightly better as a run stopper and the other slightly better in coverage. I'm not sure Arthur Brown has proven anything yet, though, and I'm a big supporter of his. I just don't think trading him makes sense, because I don't see the team recouping the value we spent or the value his potential could land them in the future. Not yet, anyway. Brown hasn't done or proven enough to gain that type of compensation. 

 

If we traded a LB, I'd rather it be Daryl Smith, even though I like him very much. Mosley can make adjustments and see developing plays as well or better than Daryl and he seems to have the confidence to make those adjustments. He did it against Pittsburgh and I was really impressed by him. 

[FlocksGottaFeed]

I

 

 I don't think he is. I think Brown and Mosley are somewhat similar players, with one slightly better as a run stopper and the other slightly better in coverage. I'm not sure Arthur Brown has proven anything yet, though, and I'm a big supporter of his. I just don't think trading him makes sense, because I don't see the team recouping the value we spent or the value his potential could land them in the future. Not yet, anyway. Brown hasn't done or proven enough to gain that type of compensation. 

 

If we traded a LB, I'd rather it be Daryl Smith, even though I like him very much. Mosley can make adjustments and see developing plays as well or better than Daryl and he seems to have the confidence to make those adjustments. He did it against Pittsburgh and I was really impressed by him. 

I can't see the Ravens making a move this season to trusting a rookie to making all of the adjustment calls, just yet. They're still assessing CJ. His 'real-time' game recognition, his durability and 'big play' translation from college. They believe in this guy, but know how critical it is that we get to the playoffs this year. They're not seeing this as a rebuilding season. Authur on the other hand, has shown enough potential in this current NFL culture (throw in pedigree in Boston) to garner trade interest and/or start with CJ if CJ proves that he can replace Smith at the end of the season. If Smith doesn't get injured Pees is going to keep both 3 down LBs on the field and he should. Our schedule this year is 'pass' happy.

[rmcjacket23]

Well, first of all, no doubt we've overvalued him. The Ravens just invested a 2nd and a 6th round pick into the guy. That's two coveted draft picks we invested into a player to surrender him the very next season? That's hardly enough time, especially considering that Brown was considered a player who needed to get up to speed anyway. While many have possibly overvalued him, I'd say you're just as extreme undervaluing him if you're predicting a sophomore player as a career back-up who will likely leave after his rookie deal expires. 

 

Smith was brought back before we drafted Mosley. The assumption was that Daryl and Brown would likely play together as starters. Mosley was great value and we didn't pass on the value because the same position was drafted a year prior. Sometimes, you need to prepare for the future. Granted, a rookie started above a sophomore in this case, Mosley vs Brown, but it's not like Brown is some bum, either.

 

I think you're making some serious and frankly baseless assumptions. 

Well, look at it this way...

1. He's obviously never overtaking Mosley for his spot, so that consideration is out.

2. Daryl Smith is certainly going to be here this year, and probably at least next year as well.

3. Given those two factors, and given the fact that not only is Brown not even a backup right now but he's currently a HEALTHY gameday inactive for the first two weeks, there aren't any likely scenarios (besides perhaps multiple injuries) where I see Brown being a starter on this defense until AT LEAST the fourth and final year of his deal with the Ravens. Given that, he will likely have, at best, one season to prove himself as a starter. If that doesn't go as planned (needless to say I don't think the franchises plan for him all along has gone as planned so far), then he hits FA, in which case I doubt the Ravens will have a sense of urgency to re-sign him, given that they will already have Mosley and have shown the ability to find a complementary or starting MLB in FA on numerous occassions.

In my opinion, next season is when you will have a great understanding of what Brown's future on this team is. If he isn't at least pushing Daryl Smith hard for the starting role next summer, then his long-term prospects as a starting player on this team aren't high in my opinion.

We can play the "its only year two" game all day long, but remember, its a four year contract. Once year two is gone, that's 50% of the sample size. He's not guaranteed to play here for 5-10 years. He's got a four year deal. Any way fans choose to look at it... I can't think of a single 2nd round pick that this team has ever made where he is a healthy inactive in year 2 and the team feels good about his development. I just don't see it.

[GrimCoconut]

Well, look at it this way...

1. He's obviously never overtaking Mosley for his spot, so that consideration is out.

2. Daryl Smith is certainly going to be here this year, and probably at least next year as well.

3. Given those two factors, and given the fact that not only is Brown not even a backup right now but he's currently a HEALTHY gameday inactive for the first two weeks, there aren't any likely scenarios (besides perhaps multiple injuries) where I see Brown being a starter on this defense until AT LEAST the fourth and final year of his deal with the Ravens. Given that, he will likely have, at best, one season to prove himself as a starter. If that doesn't go as planned (needless to say I don't think the franchises plan for him all along has gone as planned so far), then he hits FA, in which case I doubt the Ravens will have a sense of urgency to re-sign him, given that they will already have Mosley and have shown the ability to find a complementary or starting MLB in FA on numerous occassions.

In my opinion, next season is when you will have a great understanding of what Brown's future on this team is. If he isn't at least pushing Daryl Smith hard for the starting role next summer, then his long-term prospects as a starting player on this team aren't high in my opinion.

We can play the "its only year two" game all day long, but remember, its a four year contract. Once year two is gone, that's 50% of the sample size. He's not guaranteed to play here for 5-10 years. He's got a four year deal. Any way fans choose to look at it... I can't think of a single 2nd round pick that this team has ever made where he is a healthy inactive in year 2 and the team feels good about his development. I just don't see it.

1. We can agree. 

2. I disagree. We will save $750k if we part ways with Smith next year, or even more. If you designate him a post-June 1st cut next off-season, we'll save 2.5M and then take a $875k dead money hit in 2015 and a $1.75M dead money hit in 2016. We'll still save $2.5m and $2.125m both years, respectively. That's quite a savings, so to suggest that we're married to Daryl Smith or that Mosley couldn't replace Smtih and Brown replace Mosley next year is absurd. Arthur Brown, if he stays and proves to deserve the role more than Daryl, could start as early as next season. 

3. I've already debunked your notion that Arthur Brown can't start until his fourth year, so that's already addressed. 

4. I agree that we should see Arthur Brown compete against Daryl for that job next year. You expect a guy with development to be ready by his third year. I can agree with you here. 

5. We've shown in years past that we're not afraid to keep guys here and contribute in their fourth year. Paul Kruger is a good example of that. He was another 2nd round pick who developed slowly and exploded in his final year en route to the title. 

[rmcjacket23]

1. We can agree. 

2. I disagree. We will save $750k if we part ways with Smith next year, or even more. If you designate him a post-June 1st cut next off-season, we'll save 2.5M and then take a $875k dead money hit in 2015 and a $1.75M dead money hit in 2016. We'll still save $2.5m and $2.125m both years, respectively. That's quite a savings, so to suggest that we're married to Daryl Smith or that Mosley couldn't replace Smtih and Brown replace Mosley next year is absurd. Arthur Brown, if he stays and proves to deserve the role more than Daryl, could start as early as next season. 

3. I've already debunked your notion that Arthur Brown can't start until his fourth year, so that's already addressed. 

4. I agree that we should see Arthur Brown compete against Daryl for that job next year. You expect a guy with development to be ready by his third year. I can agree with you here. 

5. We've shown in years past that we're not afraid to keep guys here and contribute in their fourth year. Paul Kruger is a good example of that. He was another 2nd round pick who developed slowly and exploded in his final year en route to the title. 

1. The salary cap savings, frankly, is irrelevant. The post-June 1st cut concept doesn't do us any good, because all we are doing is kicking the can down the road, which is a terrible idea with many of our contracts escalating over that period (including a QB who's cap number doubles between 2015-2016).

2. IF Arthur is going to start before year 4, it will be because either he beats out Daryl Smith for the job (which he didn't do this season) or because of an injury. Even if somehow we decide to cut Daryl Smith after this season, there is no indication that the Ravens are going to hand him a starting job. Most likely, like in most cases, he will face stiff competition... from another FA or an internal candidate, possibly even another draft pick.

3. Your Kruger argument makes no sense whatsoever. First off, he saw significant snaps because Suggs tore his achilles. And while he did perform well... what happened in year 5? He became a starter... for another team. That's part of the premise of my argument. Brown may be a one year starter on this team and then his time with this franchise may be done. If there's anything that proves, it shows that the franchise doesn't overreact to one good season from a player, particularly in his fourth season. Guys like Kruger and Ellerbe (and to a certain extent Art Jones) blew up and played their best football in the final year of their contract, and yet, we didn't retain any of them.

[GrimCoconut]

1. The salary cap savings, frankly, is irrelevant. The post-June 1st cut concept doesn't do us any good, because all we are doing is kicking the can down the road, which is a terrible idea with many of our contracts escalating over that period (including a QB who's cap number doubles between 2015-2016).

2. IF Arthur is going to start before year 4, it will be because either he beats out Daryl Smith for the job (which he didn't do this season) or because of an injury. Even if somehow we decide to cut Daryl Smith after this season, there is no indication that the Ravens are going to hand him a starting job. Most likely, like in most cases, he will face stiff competition... from another FA or an internal candidate, possibly even another draft pick.

3. Your Kruger argument makes no sense whatsoever. First off, he saw significant snaps because Suggs tore his achilles. And while he did perform well... what happened in year 5? He became a starter... for another team. That's part of the premise of my argument. Brown may be a one year starter on this team and then his time with this franchise may be done. If there's anything that proves, it shows that the franchise doesn't overreact to one good season from a player, particularly in his fourth season. Guys like Kruger and Ellerbe (and to a certain extent Art Jones) blew up and played their best football in the final year of their contract, and yet, we didn't retain any of them.

1. It's not irrelevant. Most of our guys are free agents in 2016, not escalating contracts. Look it up. 

2. He wasn't competing against Smith, he was competing against Mosley. If we cut Daryl Smith, it would be because the coaches believe Brown is ready to start. 

3. The Kruger example was to show that guys have been eased into starting roles before and they have done well. We didn't retain Kruger because of the price, not because he isn't a good player. 

[rmcjacket23]

1. It's not irrelevant. Most of our guys are free agents in 2016, not escalating contracts. Look it up. 

2. He wasn't competing against Smith, he was competing against Mosley. If we cut Daryl Smith, it would be because the coaches believe Brown is ready to start. 

3. The Kruger example was to show that guys have been eased into starting roles before and they have done well. We didn't retain Kruger because of the price, not because he isn't a good player. 

1. Looked it up long ago... and we have several large contracts that will still be on the books in 2016 and beyond. Frankly, the only truly big contract that won't be around then is Ngata, and he might likely get an extension. Flacco, Webb, Monroe, Pitta, Suggs, Dumervil all have $6M+ cap numbers in 2016. We might have a lot of free agents by then, but we don't have a lot of expensive free agents by then. Granted, several extensions/releases could happen before then, just like paying quality money to guys like Torrey and Jimmy Smith might happen by then. And yes... they are all escalating contracts. They don't go down as the contract continues... they go up. If I took just those six players alone, their 2014 cap number combined is just under $39.875M. In 2016, those same six players would have a cap number of $69.525M... thats the definition of escalating. The reason Smith's salary cap number is irrelevant is because the savings of cutting him in 2015 is basically irrelevant (under $1M) and again, it makes no sense to push dead money into future years when you don't have to.

2. Just because we cut Smith doesn't mean we think Brown is ready... that would be a baseless assumption. We may cut him, as you said, because of financial issues, or because we don't think he's playing at a high level anymore. We've cut plenty of players in the past with nobody internally that we liked enough to put in their place.

3. Precisely my point... theres tons of variables. If Brown plays well in year 4, it doesn't guarantee him a contract extension with this team. And in some cases, its because we don't think they are really that good of a player (which is basically what happened with Ellerbe and Reed).

[GrimCoconut]

1. Looked it up long ago... and we have several large contracts that will still be on the books in 2016 and beyond. Frankly, the only truly big contract that won't be around then is Ngata, and he might likely get an extension. Flacco, Webb, Monroe, Pitta, Suggs, Dumervil all have $6M+ cap numbers in 2016. We might have a lot of free agents by then, but we don't have a lot of expensive free agents by then. Granted, several extensions/releases could happen before then, just like paying quality money to guys like Torrey and Jimmy Smith might happen by then. And yes... they are all escalating contracts. They don't go down as the contract continues... they go up. If I took just those six players alone, their 2014 cap number combined is just under $39.875M. In 2016, those same six players would have a cap number of $69.525M... thats the definition of escalating. The reason Smith's salary cap number is irrelevant is because the savings of cutting him in 2015 is basically irrelevant (under $1M) and again, it makes no sense to push dead money into future years when you don't have to.

2. Just because we cut Smith doesn't mean we think Brown is ready... that would be a baseless assumption. We may cut him, as you said, because of financial issues, or because we don't think he's playing at a high level anymore. We've cut plenty of players in the past with nobody internally that we liked enough to put in their place.

3. Precisely my point... theres tons of variables. If Brown plays well in year 4, it doesn't guarantee him a contract extension with this team. And in some cases, its because we don't think they are really that good of a player (which is basically what happened with Ellerbe and Reed).

It's highly likely that the salary cap increases by then as it has been recently. Also, a few of those guys will either be restructured or possibly home by then, such as Flacco and Webb respectively. So while you have a point, we're not handicapped by it at all.

We cut Mason (Smith, Boldin), Gregg (Cody), Heap (Dickson, Pitta) when we had replacements we thought could match their production. It's not unprecedented. Yes, we did trade and sign free agents as well, but the point is we made those moves before we had actual replacements.

[Blackbirds Rule]

Well, look at it this way...

1. He's obviously never overtaking Mosley for his spot, so that consideration is out.

2. Daryl Smith is certainly going to be here this year, and probably at least next year as well.

3. Given those two factors, and given the fact that not only is Brown not even a backup right now but he's currently a HEALTHY gameday inactive for the first two weeks, there aren't any likely scenarios (besides perhaps multiple injuries) where I see Brown being a starter on this defense until AT LEAST the fourth and final year of his deal with the Ravens. Given that, he will likely have, at best, one season to prove himself as a starter. If that doesn't go as planned (needless to say I don't think the franchises plan for him all along has gone as planned so far), then he hits FA, in which case I doubt the Ravens will have a sense of urgency to re-sign him, given that they will already have Mosley and have shown the ability to find a complementary or starting MLB in FA on numerous occassions.

In my opinion, next season is when you will have a great understanding of what Brown's future on this team is. If he isn't at least pushing Daryl Smith hard for the starting role next summer, then his long-term prospects as a starting player on this team aren't high in my opinion.

We can play the "its only year two" game all day long, but remember, its a four year contract. Once year two is gone, that's 50% of the sample size. He's not guaranteed to play here for 5-10 years. He's got a four year deal. Any way fans choose to look at it... I can't think of a single 2nd round pick that this team has ever made where he is a healthy inactive in year 2 and the team feels good about his development. I just don't see it.

1. He may take over for D Smith though as Smith is an older player. Mosley also had the tag of being injury prone. So we shouldn't get rid of a young talented player just because right now everything is good.

2. D. Smith can easily be cut next year if Brown can show he's worth during this year and training camp next year.

3. I think a possible reason for him being a healthy scratch besides teams interested in trading for him. Is that the team didn't need him for the first two games as the two teams we played don't pass that much so the extra coverage linebacker wasn't needed. Webb has also been scratched these last two games and will probably get a 3rd game. Once Webb and Will Hill are able to play I think you'll see Brown out there too. I think he showed the last two preseason games that he can stop the run and cover. I think next year you'll have Mosley and Brown as our two ILB's. D. Smith has looked a little slow this season and if he starts to get exposed in coverage you'll see Brown get activated.

[beasy2487]

Arthur Brown is the new Paul Kruger. Daryl Smith is the new Jarret Johnson. 

[rmcjacket23]

1. He may take over for D Smith though as Smith is an older player. Mosley also had the tag of being injury prone. So we shouldn't get rid of a young talented player just because right now everything is good.

2. D. Smith can easily be cut next year if Brown can show he's worth during this year and training camp next year.

3. I think a possible reason for him being a healthy scratch besides teams interested in trading for him. Is that the team didn't need him for the first two games as the two teams we played don't pass that much so the extra coverage linebacker wasn't needed. Webb has also been scratched these last two games and will probably get a 3rd game. Once Webb and Will Hill are able to play I think you'll see Brown out there too. I think he showed the last two preseason games that he can stop the run and cover. I think next year you'll have Mosley and Brown as our two ILB's. D. Smith has looked a little slow this season and if he starts to get exposed in coverage you'll see Brown get activated.

1. I don't think NFL teams worry about injury prone labels from college players. If they were that concerned about it, I don't think he's a first round pick (and one that we were so particularly excited about). That's a non-issue for me until he actually gets hurt in the pros.

2. The exact same thing could have been said this offseason, when everybody expected Brown to take the leap into the starting role. We didn't have to both re-sign Smith and draft Mosley if we were that confident in him.

3. I think that has absolutely nothing to do with it. I think he's a gameday inactive because he's not a major contributor on ST and Mosley/Smith are every down players essentially, which means it would take an in-game injury for Brown to even get on the field. Frankly, I think its completely logical to make him inactive, because they've clearly already got MLB on the depth chart they feel comfortable with as substitutes if needed, and there are better ST players. I would be shocked if the Ravens were actually deactivating a player who hasn't shown on an NFL field that he's a talented player... just so that they can trade him. You would normally try to showcase a player like that, not hold them out of games.

[rmcjacket23]

It's highly likely that the salary cap increases by then as it has been recently. Also, a few of those guys will either be restructured or possibly home by then, such as Flacco and Webb respectively. So while you have a point, we're not handicapped by it at all.

We cut Mason (Smith, Boldin), Gregg (Cody), Heap (Dickson, Pitta) when we had replacements we thought could match their production. It's not unprecedented. Yes, we did trade and sign free agents as well, but the point is we made those moves before we had actual replacements.

I didn't say we were handicapped by it... I just said it makes no sense to make a guy like Daryl a post June-1 cut to push some salary cap into future years, nor would it make sense to cut him next offseason to save $750K unless you feel like he just can't play well anymore. Even if they retained him as competition for Brown, he still comes pretty cheap at a $750K savings. That doesn't really benefit the Ravens at all, which is why I think Daryl is here through 2015.

 

We definitely have cut guys when we thought we had a replacement, and we definitely have done the exact opposite.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Arthur Brown is the new Paul Kruger. Daryl Smith is the new Jarret Johnson. 

 

[ravensdfan]

Trading Arthur Brown for Sproles would be idiotic.

 

No, we're not trading him. Not unless we're getting some serious, big time value in return. Like it would have to be a proven starter and a middle round pick for Ozzie to trade Brown. Maybe more.

 

Based on what? Brown has proven nothing. I think that is completely unrealistic expectations for Brown.

 

I'm not advocating for any trade of Brown, in fact, based on how Pierce & Forsett performed, I doubt we're in the market for a RB at all. Now, if someone had a CB for us - that's a possibility.

 

I was just saying that the stated trade value for Brown is rather overstated at this point in time.

[acranfor]

People are putting too much stock into all of this. Patience with young player development is gone in the NFL. Daryl is obviously a stop gap. He has shown that he is not a top tier LB anymore with his lack of ability against the run.

 

Brown will get his chance to contribute to this team. Just because he has had limited time does not mean he is necessarily a bust. It simply means the team thinks he needs to develop more. Look at Wagner last year to this year, look at Jimmy's first couple years, etc. This is how football used to be and honestly, should be - so be patient people. Do not read too much into all of this, but also do not anoint him the next big thing just yet.

 

As for him not being active for the last two games; this is simply a numbers issue. You are only allowed a certain number of players on game day. You want to fill this roster with those that can contribute, not those who will ride the bench. If Brown were active, he would simply be watching Mosley and Smith play and taking a spot from guys like Orr, Levine, Miles, Trawick; who are less talented from a base defense standpoint, but have a necessity from a ST standpoint.

[Blackbirds Rule]

1. I don't think NFL teams worry about injury prone labels from college players. If they were that concerned about it, I don't think he's a first round pick (and one that we were so particularly excited about). That's a non-issue for me until he actually gets hurt in the pros.

2. The exact same thing could have been said this offseason, when everybody expected Brown to take the leap into the starting role. We didn't have to both re-sign Smith and draft Mosley if we were that confident in him.

3. I think that has absolutely nothing to do with it. I think he's a gameday inactive because he's not a major contributor on ST and Mosley/Smith are every down players essentially, which means it would take an in-game injury for Brown to even get on the field. Frankly, I think its completely logical to make him inactive, because they've clearly already got MLB on the depth chart they feel comfortable with as substitutes if needed, and there are better ST players. I would be shocked if the Ravens were actually deactivating a player who hasn't shown on an NFL field that he's a talented player... just so that they can trade him. You would normally try to showcase a player like that, not hold them out of games.

1. They do worry and that's why he dropped down to us at 17. The same happened to Jarvis Jones last year for the Steelers.

2.  We didn't think Mosley was going to fall to us at 17. i think we were comfortable with Brown and Smith being the starting LB. Mosley was just too good to pass up. i think Ozzie & Co also knew Darryl Smith wasn't the longterm answer and that you have to have options ready.

3. You are probably more right on this point than I was. Brown is an everydown linebacker but Orr and the other safeties are better on ST. i think the team doesn't want him to get hurt right now so they put him as inactive. If something happens to any linebacker I believe you'll see him on the field. The last two preseason games showed that he can play in this league and at a very high level. I don't think we can trade him for any sort of value as he's not played enough to warrant that. I do think barring any injury this year that he'll compete with D. Smith for that starting LB spot next to Mosley.

[GrimCoconut]

I didn't say we were handicapped by it... I just said it makes no sense to make a guy like Daryl a post June-1 cut to push some salary cap into future years, nor would it make sense to cut him next offseason to save $750K unless you feel like he just can't play well anymore. Even if they retained him as competition for Brown, he still comes pretty cheap at a $750K savings. That doesn't really benefit the Ravens at all, which is why I think Daryl is here through 2015.

We definitely have cut guys when we thought we had a replacement, and we definitely have done the exact opposite.

I'm not sure what your point is then if you don't think those contracts handicap us. What's the sense in bringing it up?

Sure makes sense if you want to free up some cap space for whatever reason. Daryl might be here through 2015. I don't think I said otherwise and if I did, well, that is erroneous on my part. I do know he could be cut if we feel like Brown is ready to step up and we feel confident in the guys behind him. That I do know, because Smith isn't a ST player. You're either starting him or sending him elsewhere to play.

One point you seem fixated upon is that there's a connection between us re-signing Daryl and drafting Mosley as an indication that we aren't sold on Arthur Brown. Everything I've read indicates we like Brown and seemed ready to start him until a guy we felt will eventually be a top-5 player at his position in the NFL dropped in our laps.

Yes, Smith signed a four year extension but I don't see him playing it out. I think it's more of a two year deal and we have the option to keep him longer.

[rmcjacket23]

I'm not sure what your point is then if you don't think those contracts handicap us. What's the sense in bringing it up?

Sure makes sense if you want to free up some cap space for whatever reason. Daryl might be here through 2015. I don't think I said otherwise and if I did, well, that is erroneous on my part. I do know he could be cut if we feel like Brown is ready to step up and we feel confident in the guys behind him. That I do know, because Smith isn't a ST player. You're either starting him or sending him elsewhere to play.

One point you seem fixated upon is that there's a connection between us re-signing Daryl and drafting Mosley as an indication that we aren't sold on Arthur Brown. Everything I've read indicates we like Brown and seemed ready to start him until a guy we felt will eventually be a top-5 player at his position in the NFL dropped in our laps.

Yes, Smith signed a four year extension but I don't see him playing it out. I think it's more of a two year deal and we have the option to keep him longer.

1. I didn't bring up the salary cap situation... you did. You did that when you said they could make Daryl a post June 1 cut next offseason, in which I tried to explain why that wouldn't be a good idea for the franchise, considering you referenced how we would take dead money in future years. As I explained, with a lot of our big contracts projected to increase in the future, its not wise to be pushing dead money down the line, nor do I think that's a real option for the Ravens. I don't recall us doing that very often in the past outside of rare situations (aka Ray RIce).

2. I don't see us keeping Daryl for four years either, but if he stays for 2 (which I think he will), that means he's here through 2015, meaning the first opportunity Brown has to start is 2016, the final year of his contract. That's my entire point... I don't see him being a starter for two more seasons at the very least.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Arthur is not going anywhere unless someone offers us a decent #3 CB for him (at least a #3).

And I'd be inclined to keep him as insurance for Daryl and CJ.

[rmcjacket23]

1. They do worry and that's why he dropped down to us at 17. The same happened to Jarvis Jones last year for the Steelers.

2.  We didn't think Mosley was going to fall to us at 17. i think we were comfortable with Brown and Smith being the starting LB. Mosley was just too good to pass up. i think Ozzie & Co also knew Darryl Smith wasn't the longterm answer and that you have to have options ready.

3. You are probably more right on this point than I was. Brown is an everydown linebacker but Orr and the other safeties are better on ST. i think the team doesn't want him to get hurt right now so they put him as inactive. If something happens to any linebacker I believe you'll see him on the field. The last two preseason games showed that he can play in this league and at a very high level. I don't think we can trade him for any sort of value as he's not played enough to warrant that. I do think barring any injury this year that he'll compete with D. Smith for that starting LB spot next to Mosley.

I don't know why other teams didn't draft him... I know that the Ravens clearly weren't too concerned about it, because they used a quality draft pick on him. I'm not in the business of guessing why other teams didn't take him, but needless to say, there's probably a dozen other reasons beyond injury concerns. Could be that teams just didn't think he was very good, could be that teams don't value taking a MLB with a top 15 pick, which is a growing trend in the league. Remember, just because the Ravens rate a player so high doesn't mean the rest of the league does.

[rmcjacket23]

I'm not sure what your point is then if you don't think those contracts handicap us. What's the sense in bringing it up?

Sure makes sense if you want to free up some cap space for whatever reason. Daryl might be here through 2015. I don't think I said otherwise and if I did, well, that is erroneous on my part. I do know he could be cut if we feel like Brown is ready to step up and we feel confident in the guys behind him. That I do know, because Smith isn't a ST player. You're either starting him or sending him elsewhere to play.

One point you seem fixated upon is that there's a connection between us re-signing Daryl and drafting Mosley as an indication that we aren't sold on Arthur Brown. Everything I've read indicates we like Brown and seemed ready to start him until a guy we felt will eventually be a top-5 player at his position in the NFL dropped in our laps.

Yes, Smith signed a four year extension but I don't see him playing it out. I think it's more of a two year deal and we have the option to keep him longer.

I would also caution on one thing (a bit off topic though)...

 

While I agree that most of the big contracts figure to get dealt with before that time comes, keep in mind that 2016 is the year when Flacco's cap number balloons, and frankly, he has ALL the leverage in that season. Much like Ngata this season, his cap number is huge, and he may not have much incentive to look to reduce it. He pretty much knows the Ravens won't cut him (would save like $3M against the cap with a $25M dead money hit, so not realistic), and he will still only be in year 4 of a 6 year deal. He could justifiably refuse to do anything with his contract, and force the Ravens to absorb a $28M cap hit that season.

 

If that happens, regardless of what the rest of the roster looks like, we are sort of going to be "handcuffed". You can't have one player taking up almost $30M in cap space in this league and not have it have a significant impact on your roster construction in that season.