Arthur Brown Trade Rumors

[LEGEN-wait for it-DARY]

I was being more rhetorical and probably theoretical than anything. Monroe having his health issues, I wouldn't move Hurst all. I'd probably wait until at least a year or two. It's move to have this kind of depth. And who knows, maybe we can make him look really terrific and trade him for a much higher pick in a few years? Or even get a 3rd round compensatory selection like the Bengals appear set to receive for Collins.

 

AFTER this season there are a few guys we should be looking to trade as they would be worth more to other teams than us, such as Hurst, Pierce, and Tyson.

[rmcjacket23]

AFTER this season there are a few guys we should be looking to trade as they would be worth more to other teams than us, such as Hurst, Pierce, and Tyson.

1. I think Pierce brings a lot more value to this team than he would to other teams. He's basically only going to fit in a ZBS system, which eliminates like half his market right off the bat. He's a complementary back in just about every offense in this league.

2. I don't see a realistic scenario where we trade Hurst. He's playing for peanuts from an NFL standpoint, and the entire concept of depth on the offensive line is important. We've already seen that our LT isn't immune to injury, so trading away Hurst only brings about another question mark on the line if another injury happens (which likely will happen).

3. Tyson doesn't get moved or consider getting moved until the Ngata situation works itself out. If Ngata isn't on this team anymore, Tyson likely will remain here.

 

Plus, Hurst has played one game so far. The talk of trading Hurst is sort of like the talk amongst Redskins fans of them dealing Kirk Cousins for a second round pick... incredibly premature, and likely won't amount to anything close to what fans think it will.

[beasy2487]

The rumors of Arthur Brown's demise are greatly exaggerated.

[JoeyFlex5]

Yup, its just one big conspiracy...

 

SMH.

 

I think its officially time for this thread to die. All this thread keeps doing is rinse/repeating the fact that fans are convinced they are better talent evaluators than coaches.

arthur brown is about as fast as they come at ILB, he bulked up this offseason, and during OTA's it was speculated that mosley wouldnt be good enough to take the starting job from him, now we know otherwise, but thats beside the point. he was a stud in preseason, and he didnt just play vs the practice squad and future cut players, he was playing against nfl level talent. 

 

arthur brown is smart, high character, and has more than enough athleticism required to be a starting ILB in this league, and we have all seen it, we saw it in his pass coverage last year when he was too small to be a 3 downer, we saw it in all phases this preseason after he bulked up, the dude is a stud, so much that there are fans of other teams(who you would think dont even know who arthur brown is) are clamoring for their fo's to put some serious bait out there for us to trade. 

 

the reality of it, is that mosley is heady enough to make the calls, daryl smith has been average this year, and while i was excited we got to keep him, his contract hasnt been justified so far, he clearly isnt the future because hes old as dirt, meanwhile our future at the position is being benched for someone who plays purely special teams, who isnt half as good as brown, and who is making this call? our HC who was a former ST coach, who is infamous for putting high draft picks on special teams and risking injury, and limiting them to special teams instead of letting them get the reps they need. 

 

i like harbs and he has done wonders for this organization, but sometimes he can really, really, annoy his fanbase, this is one of those times.

[RobFuseRaven]

AFTER this season there are a few guys we should be looking to trade as they would be worth more to other teams than us, such as Hurst, Pierce, and Tyson.

 

Pierce, yes, but not Hurst and Tyson. This year especially, we see how important it is to have good depth. The oline and dline are 2 extremely important areas to have depth.

[rmcjacket23]

arthur brown is about as fast as they come at ILB, he bulked up this offseason, and during OTA's it was speculated that mosley wouldnt be good enough to take the starting job from him, now we know otherwise, but thats beside the point. he was a stud in preseason, and he didnt just play vs the practice squad and future cut players, he was playing against nfl level talent. 

 

arthur brown is smart, high character, and has more than enough athleticism required to be a starting ILB in this league, and we have all seen it, we saw it in his pass coverage last year when he was too small to be a 3 downer, we saw it in all phases this preseason after he bulked up, the dude is a stud, so much that there are fans of other teams(who you would think dont even know who arthur brown is) are clamoring for their fo's to put some serious bait out there for us to trade. 

 

the reality of it, is that mosley is heady enough to make the calls, daryl smith has been average this year, and while i was excited we got to keep him, his contract hasnt been justified so far, he clearly isnt the future because hes old as dirt, meanwhile our future at the position is being benched for someone who plays purely special teams, who isnt half as good as brown, and who is making this call? our HC who was a former ST coach, who is infamous for putting high draft picks on special teams and risking injury, and limiting them to special teams instead of letting them get the reps they need. 

 

i like harbs and he has done wonders for this organization, but sometimes he can really, really, annoy his fanbase, this is one of those times.

1. ST is incredibly important. For obvious reasons, the idea of fielding a good ST unit is to put the best ST players you can out there. If that means some of your best ST players are also starters at other positions, then so be it. If you are bad on ST, it really doesn't matter much what the offense or defense does. You're just not going to win a lot of football games.

 

2. I, frankly, don't care about who the "future" of the position is. I care about who the PRESENT of the position is. Right now, Daryl Smith is playing more than good enough to keep a starting job, and mid-way regular season isn't the time to start giving other players who haven't earned playing time reps just for the sake of getting reps. Doesn't benefit the football team.

 

3. Coaches see these players on a daily basis, and fans don't. They see what fans can NEVER see, and they see EVERYTHING that fans see.

[BmoreBird22]

arthur brown is about as fast as they come at ILB, he bulked up this offseason, and during OTA's it was speculated that mosley wouldnt be good enough to take the starting job from him, now we know otherwise, but thats beside the point. he was a stud in preseason, and he didnt just play vs the practice squad and future cut players, he was playing against nfl level talent. 

 

arthur brown is smart, high character, and has more than enough athleticism required to be a starting ILB in this league, and we have all seen it, we saw it in his pass coverage last year when he was too small to be a 3 downer, we saw it in all phases this preseason after he bulked up, the dude is a stud, so much that there are fans of other teams(who you would think dont even know who arthur brown is) are clamoring for their fo's to put some serious bait out there for us to trade. 

 

the reality of it, is that mosley is heady enough to make the calls, daryl smith has been average this year, and while i was excited we got to keep him, his contract hasnt been justified so far, he clearly isnt the future because hes old as dirt, meanwhile our future at the position is being benched for someone who plays purely special teams, who isnt half as good as brown, and who is making this call? our HC who was a former ST coach, who is infamous for putting high draft picks on special teams and risking injury, and limiting them to special teams instead of letting them get the reps they need. 

 

i like harbs and he has done wonders for this organization, but sometimes he can really, really, annoy his fanbase, this is one of those times.

1. It's the preseason. Anyone remember how worked up people were getting over Jimmy Smith's game against the Atlanta Falcons? How about the overreactions in New England about Dobson, Thompkins, and I don't even remember that tight end's name because he didn't do anything. Preseason is a good way to evaluate where a player is, but it's not the end all be all because no planning goes into it.

 

2. Yeah, he certainly is very athletic, but ask Torrey Smith how much that helps to make you an elite player or a stud. It takes a lot of work to reach that status, and last year, all Brown did was work as a coverage linebacker and he had his mental lapses and problems, like all rookies. Great athlete, just hasn't shown anything on the field to supplant either staring linebacker.  Oh, and as far as other teams wanting to trade for Brown, please realize it's the fans and that means nothing.

 

3. Maybe he'd have a better chance if he played special teams. If you want to know how important special teams are, research the 2010 San Diego Chargers because that's about as good an example as you will find. Special teams are an incredibly vital part to the game of football and if you can't do it, well, sucks to be you, I guess. If a player is a better special teams player than Brown, no duh he's going to get onto the field over Brown. Also, Harbaugh isn't notorious for anything except for making players actually earn their playing time. Nothing is handed to you here.

 

4. Oh, he annoys the fan base because he won't play your favorite player? I'm sure he cares so much. Pfft. He's 3-1, has a  Super Bowl ring, and is considered one of the best coaches in the league. Why does he care?

 

Instead of thinking of conspiracy theories, try to think about how he's just not ready, apparently. Also, Upshaw makes the defensive calls for the front seven, so if Brown can't supplant Daryl, it has nothing to do with the mental aspect, just his ability to play football at a higher level than Daryl.

[GrimCoconut]

Lol at the idea that we'll get anything more than a lollipop for Bernard Pierce. Yeah, let's trade for an RB who has looked decent but not great, who we're not sure can stay healthy, when we can find quality RB deep the draft and after the draft. There's no chance we can trade Piece for anything of value. I normally don't speak so definitely but I'm very certain on that. He's got no trade value at all imo.

Also, special teams are critical. If you're dominant on special teams and or offense you'll win games. It's so so so difficult to be dominant on both offense and defense due to the cap. That's what makes special teams highly critical to winning games.

[arnie_uk]

1. It's the preseason. Anyone remember how worked up people were getting over Jimmy Smith's game against the Atlanta Falcons? How about the overreactions in New England about Dobson, Thompkins, and I don't even remember that tight end's name because he didn't do anything. Preseason is a good way to evaluate where a player is, but it's not the end all be all because no planning goes into it.

2. Yeah, he certainly is very athletic, but ask Torrey Smith how much that helps to make you an elite player or a stud. It takes a lot of work to reach that status, and last year, all Brown did was work as a coverage linebacker and he had his mental lapses and problems, like all rookies. Great athlete, just hasn't shown anything on the field to supplant either staring linebacker. Oh, and as far as other teams wanting to trade for Brown, please realize it's the fans and that means nothing.

3. Maybe he'd have a better chance if he played special teams. If you want to know how important special teams are, research the 2010 San Diego Chargers because that's about as good an example as you will find. Special teams are an incredibly vital part to the game of football and if you can't do it, well, sucks to be you, I guess. If a player is a better special teams player than Brown, no duh he's going to get onto the field over Brown. Also, Harbaugh isn't notorious for anything except for making players actually earn their playing time. Nothing is handed to you here.

4. Oh, he annoys the fan base because he won't play your favorite player? I'm sure he cares so much. Pfft. He's 3-1, has a Super Bowl ring, and is considered one of the best coaches in the league. Why does he care?

Instead of thinking of conspiracy theories, try to think about how he's just not ready, apparently. Also, Upshaw makes the defensive calls for the front seven, so if Brown can't supplant Daryl, it has nothing to do with the mental aspect, just his ability to play football at a higher level than Daryl.

never seen upshaw make a call in my life

[BmoreBird22]

never seen upshaw make a call in my life

There was an article on him making the calls. Just because a player doesn't waive his hands in a flashy manner doesn't mean he doesn't make communications to the defense.

[BmoreBird22]

never seen upshaw make a call in my life

Everybody thought Lewis was the one making the calls to adjust the defense in Super Bowl XLVII and beyond. Nope – it was Upshaw.

“It’s not because Ray couldn’t do it. It’s because we didn’t want Ray to do it,” Monachino said. “We wanted Ray to be Ray and understanding that he’s so far ahead from a preparation standpoint that he’s going to use his instincts and let somebody else handle making the calls.”

Each defensive play is called by Pees. That is relayed to the Mike linebacker, who gives the play to the players in the huddle. Once the team is in formation, however, it’s Upshaw who runs the defense. He’s the one who makes adjustments and gets everyone on the same page.

Upshaw’s job description requires him to communicate with the defensive linemen, the inside linebackers and safeties.

[arnie_uk]

There was an article on him making the calls. Just because a player doesn't waive his hands in a flashy manner doesn't mean he doesn't make communications to the defense.

point me in the direction. Find that hard to believe. Smith rarely, almost never has came off the field since he's been here

[arnie_uk]

Everybody thought Lewis was the one making the calls to adjust the defense in Super Bowl XLVII and beyond. Nope – it was Upshaw.

“It’s not because Ray couldn’t do it. It’s because we didn’t want Ray to do it,” Monachino said. “We wanted Ray to be Ray and understanding that he’s so far ahead from a preparation standpoint that he’s going to use his instincts and let somebody else handle making the calls.”

Each defensive play is called by Pees. That is relayed to the Mike linebacker, who gives the play to the players in the huddle. Once the team is in formation, however, it’s Upshaw who runs the defense. He’s the one who makes adjustments and gets everyone on the same page.

Upshaw’s job description requires him to communicate with the defensive linemen, the inside linebackers and safeties.

who wrote that? Its not a quote like the first part

[BmoreBird22]

who wrote that? Its not a quote like the first part

It was a BR.com article. Go Google search "the underrated Courtney Upshaw".

[JoeyFlex5]

1. ST is incredibly important. For obvious reasons, the idea of fielding a good ST unit is to put the best ST players you can out there. If that means some of your best ST players are also starters at other positions, then so be it. If you are bad on ST, it really doesn't matter much what the offense or defense does. You're just not going to win a lot of football games.

 

2. I, frankly, don't care about who the "future" of the position is. I care about who the PRESENT of the position is. Right now, Daryl Smith is playing more than good enough to keep a starting job, and mid-way regular season isn't the time to start giving other players who haven't earned playing time reps just for the sake of getting reps. Doesn't benefit the football team.

 

3. Coaches see these players on a daily basis, and fans don't. They see what fans can NEVER see, and they see EVERYTHING that fans see.

well you mockingly called conspiracy, i was pointing out why there are some who think like that. 

 

say what you want, but ST is not as important as offense or defense, we gave up 2 td's on special teams in a unwinnable playoff scenario and still won, 3 weeks later we scored a td on ST and were 6 yards from losing in the final minutes, i know wherre your coming from, but as long as you arent giving up TD's on every kickoff or punt, then you should be ok. 

 

dont be one of those guys that say "if you know so well when why dont you just become a head coach" because these boards are made for discussing and speculating, if opinions and speculating amongst fans bothers you so bad, then why are you posting here?

[arnie_uk]

It was a BR.com article. Go Google search "the underrated Courtney Upshaw".

interesting read. Surprised they gave him that responsibility when he couldn't even get a handle on his on weight early.

Don't normally read articles on this site

[BmoreBird22]

interesting read. Surprised they gave him that responsibility when he couldn't even get a handle on his on weight early.

Don't normally read articles on this site

He's a smart player with a good work ethic. Just couldn't control himself in the offseason

[arnie_uk]

He's a smart player with a good work ethic. Just couldn't control himself in the offseason

yea but im surprised harbs then entrusted him with something so important. You'd expect him to be in the bad books

[BmoreBird22]

say what you want, but ST is not as important as offense or defense, we gave up 2 td's on special teams in a unwinnable playoff scenario and still won, 3 weeks later we scored a td on ST and were 6 yards from losing in the final minutes, i know wherre your coming from, but as long as you arent giving up TD's on every kickoff or punt, then you should be ok. 

The Ravens almost lost because of two special teams touchdowns. The Ravens had a big chance to lose if they don't get that special teams touchdown. A lot of games were won in 2012 with the Ravens special teams. Pittsburgh and Dallas immediately come to mind. 

[BmoreBird22]

yea but im surprised harbs then entrusted him with something so important. You'd expect him to be in the bad books

Honestly sounds like Martindale might have been the one responsible for that.

[rmcjacket23]

well you mockingly called conspiracy, i was pointing out why there are some who think like that. 

 

say what you want, but ST is not as important as offense or defense, we gave up 2 td's on special teams in a unwinnable playoff scenario and still won, 3 weeks later we scored a td on ST and were 6 yards from losing in the final minutes, i know wherre your coming from, but as long as you arent giving up TD's on every kickoff or punt, then you should be ok. 

 

dont be one of those guys that say "if you know so well when why dont you just become a head coach" because these boards are made for discussing and speculating, if opinions and speculating amongst fans bothers you so bad, then why are you posting here?

It doesn't bother me at all.

 

And ST isn't just about not giving up or scoring TDs. Field position is one of the most critical aspects of any football game, regardless of how great or poor you are on offense or defense.

 

I've read numerous statistical studies that correlate important aspects of football, and the two biggest correlation factors that I have found that equate to winning football games are turnovers and field position.

 

Naturally field position can occur through moving the football on offense/defense, but its also greatly affected by ST.

 

The bottom line for me... while injuries in the NFL are prevalent, most football teams carry at least 2-3 players at every single position, and sometimes more. If those depth players EVER want to get a shot to play actual football in an actual regular season game, you're best chance is to be pretty good on ST. Most teams don't rotate out good players often, and there's only so many players allowed on the field.

[JoeyFlex5]

The Ravens almost lost because of two special teams touchdowns. The Ravens had a big chance to lose if they don't get that special teams touchdown. A lot of games were won in 2012 with the Ravens special teams. Pittsburgh and Dallas immediately come to mind. 

but at the same time when their special teams failed them twice, they still won in impossible circumstances. i know special teams is important, but obviously giving up kick return and punt return TD's is gonna hurt big time, but will it really hurt any worse than giving up a 4-5 play touchdown drive? 6 points is 6 points, regardless of who scores it and who gives it up, obviously dont put completely incompetent players out there for ST, but dont sacrifice good players for someone who plays about 8 snaps a game

[BmoreBird22]

but at the same time when their special teams failed them twice, they still won in impossible circumstances. i know special teams is important, but obviously giving up kick return and punt return TD's is gonna hurt big time, but will it really hurt any worse than giving up a 4-5 play touchdown drive? 6 points is 6 points, regardless of who scores it and who gives it up, obviously dont put completely incompetent players out there for ST, but dont sacrifice good players for someone who plays about 8 snaps a game

Given that Smith and Mosley have missed less than five snaps, I'm pretty sure, there's no need to have Arthur Brown active. Why take those eight snaps away for a player who isn't going to see one?

As rmc pointed out, it's not just giving up points, but also field position. It's going to be a great day for your offense if you're starting at the 30 or 40 every single drive. It's also going to be a long day if you're starting at the 10 or inside the 10 all day. Special teams is extremely important and you're just trying to downplay the significance because of your fandom.

[rmcjacket23]

Given that Smith and Mosley have missed less than five snaps, I'm pretty sure, there's no need to have Arthur Brown active. Why take those eight snaps away for a player who isn't going to see one?

As rmc pointed out, it's not just giving up points, but also field position. It's going to be a great day for your offense if you're starting at the 30 or 40 every single drive. It's also going to be a long day if you're starting at the 10 or inside the 10 all day. Special teams is extremely important and you're just trying to downplay the significance because of your fandom.

I'll summarize it like this...

 

You don't have to be great at ST to win football games... you just can't suck at it. You can't be awful at ST and win a lot of games or win playoff games. You don't need to return 5 or 6 kicks back a year either.

 

In order to not suck on ST, you can't just shove a bunch of your third string players out there and expect them to make plays. You wouldn't expect a third string WR to go out there and start catching every ball thrown his way and accumulate a ton of yardage, so why would you expect thing to shed blocks and tackles return men on ST?

 

ST isn't more important than a total performance from either the offense or defense, but ST also directly and largely impacts the performance of those units.

[Runnin Raven]

Call me crazy, but if I'm Arthur Brown I'm busting my butt to become GREAT at special teams just so I can get on the dang field.  If he's not I have to question his desire. 

[Ravens1991]

Call me crazy, but if I'm Arthur Brown I'm busting my butt to become GREAT at special teams just so I can get on the dang field.  If he's not I have to question his desire. 

 

Good point. How many other under sized inside linebackers tore it up for special teams. From seeing things about Arthur he kind of seemed like Troy P. A guy who is hard worker but just not into football. Maybe he stopped caring after he got paid.

[rmcjacket23]

Call me crazy, but if I'm Arthur Brown I'm busting my butt to become GREAT at special teams just so I can get on the dang field.  If he's not I have to question his desire. 

I could be wrong about this, but I'm guessing that its essentially "too late" at this point.

 

My guess would be that once the regular season begins, the coaching staff, for lack of better term, stops evaluating job battles. Basically, in my opinion, once you've won a job in training camp, you've sort of got to play your way OUT of the job or get injured to lose it.

 

I would doubt that Brown is on a weekly basis in the regular season competing with other players for ST duties. My assumption is that teams really only evaluate positional battles when the incumbent is performing poorly (aka why Terrance Brooks will likely see more snaps).

 

Don't really have anything to back this up, but my assumption is that Arthur Brown isn't competing on a weekly basis with Daryl Smith for MLB snaps. That competition likely occurred in the preseason, and Brown lost it. Only if Smith plays poorly or get injured would that competition likely begin again.

[izvoodoo]

If Daryl Smith got injured Arthur brown would be active the next game playing basically every snap.  

[JoeyFlex5]

Given that Smith and Mosley have missed less than five snaps, I'm pretty sure, there's no need to have Arthur Brown active. Why take those eight snaps away for a player who isn't going to see one?

As rmc pointed out, it's not just giving up points, but also field position. It's going to be a great day for your offense if you're starting at the 30 or 40 every single drive. It's also going to be a long day if you're starting at the 10 or inside the 10 all day. Special teams is extremely important and you're just trying to downplay the significance because of your fandom.

thats not what im doing at all, and i know what field position is and how important it is, is orr out there covering punts and pinning opponents inside the 10? is he blocking for our punt returners and leading them to the 40 yard line? i dont see what orr is doing on ST that warrants him 4 straight actives over arthur brown, and considering tucker kicks the ball into the jumbotron on every kickoff, i dont know if his kickoff coverage abilities are that big of a deal. 

 

like i said, i totally understand where youre coming from, and i do realize ST is important, but if daryl gets injured in the first quarter, who do we have to finish the game in his place? mclellan? orr? id be much more comfortable with a player who has at least seen a season of nfl style play on defense over a undrafted rookie who hasnt played besides special teams, and yes i know we find undrafted gems all the time, but its not like we can just bet the house that orr will come in and play lights out if he was thrown into the fire. 

 

and besides, can brown just not play special teams at all? 

[rmw10]

thats not what im doing at all, and i know what field position is and how important it is, is orr out there covering punts and pinning opponents inside the 10? is he blocking for our punt returners and leading them to the 40 yard line? i dont see what orr is doing on ST that warrants him 4 straight actives over arthur brown, and considering tucker kicks the ball into the jumbotron on every kickoff, i dont know if his kickoff coverage abilities are that big of a deal. 

 

like i said, i totally understand where youre coming from, and i do realize ST is important, but if daryl gets injured in the first quarter, who do we have to finish the game in his place? mclellan? orr? id be much more comfortable with a player who has at least seen a season of nfl style play on defense over a undrafted rookie who hasnt played besides special teams, and yes i know we find undrafted gems all the time, but its not like we can just bet the house that orr will come in and play lights out if he was thrown into the fire. 

 

and besides, can brown just not play special teams at all? 

 

It's not all about putting up stats on ST.  Of course the big plays stand out, but sometimes it's all about doing your job.  If Orr is holding his lane and not making mistakes, that has tremendous value.  We saw what happened last year when we tried disguising a poor STer on the unit in Michael Huff just to kind of alleviate the price we paid.  There were numerous big plays because he didn't hold his lane.  If Orr can do that, he's valuable.  Admittedly, I haven't paid much attention overall, but the ST unit has been doing well so obviously something is clicking.

 

I'd much rather have Brown active myself, but I can also completely understand why that's not the case.