Arthur Brown Trade Rumors

[BmoreBird22]

You're kind of arguing against yourself on this one...

 

First you say that if the plan were to sign him to an extremely large contract, the new team would ask him to take a paycut. Then, you say Mack has to want to do that. So why would he want to do that for a new team? Just to be a nice guy?

 

If the Ravens put the contract you thought the Jags would out there, and made his year 2 salary like $15M. You're saying that the Ravens, after his first year, would then ask him to take a paycut? So why on Earth would Alex Mack say yes? The answer is... he wouldn't. He'd tell the Ravens to pay him or cut him, in which case he goes on the open market in year 2 and gets a REAL contract from a REAL team. He knows this, and so does his agent.

 

And by the way... its not realistic, at least right now, to think Joe is going to take a paycut. What he is likely to do is take an extension (perhaps for less, but probably not for a lot less). The Ravens will probably take a bunch of his non-guaranteed money in the last three years, convert some of it into a signing bonus, and tack another 2-3 years or maybe longer onto his deal, which will help spread the cap number out. Until at least year 5 of his deal, Flacco knows the Ravens aren't going to cut him.

 

The perception that players take pay cuts often isn't realistic. Taking a paycut just to be a nice guy is extremely rare, and most of the people that do it (like Brady) do it because they've already had several large contracts. Players take pay cuts when the team has the leverage... i.e. when the players contract is not-guaranteed, when the market for his services would be soft, and when the player knows that taking a paycut will guarantee him a spot on the roster.

 

Guys like Alex Mack and Joe Flacco are in a prime position. They know what they could fetch on the open market, and they are exceptionally unlikely to take significant pay cuts unless there is a significant incentive to do so.

Okay, you're right, maybe pay cut isn't necessarily the right term, but let's say they wanted to structure it so that it's something like 5 years $45 million, and then have a base salary of like $40 million in year two and have the other base salaries across the contract be extremely low. If he truly wanted out of Cleveland, he wouldn't restructure that to lower the cap hit in year two, but let's say he wanted to play for the Ravens and then restructured that to keep the same contract value, but spread the cap hit out to a more reasonable amount over the course of the contract.

 

A player will take a pay cut if it's not a huge pay cut and it's more than what he could get on the open market, or he's really that attached to the city and the team. There are players who are willing to take discounts for the team because they are just that attached to where they are. It's just how it happens to work out sometimes. Not likely, but sometimes.

 

I don't think it's unrealistic to think that he'd take a pay cut, but an extension does seem likely as well. When he signed the contract, his agent and Ozzie both acknowledged this was a three year deal to be revisited after the first three years because the cap hit was unmanageable. Now, why they couldn't have gotten something done similar to what Ted Thompson did in Green Bay is beyond me, but what ever, point is, Joe knows he's not playing years four, five, and six at that cap hit. But as far as a pay cut goes, Joe is the one guy I can see doing it because this is the guy that went to McDonald's after getting his new contract, hadn't driven his new Corvette since he got it through training camp in 2013. He's a very easy going, low maintenance guy, it would seem. He even carried his own luggage at an airport to avoid paying for a trolley to take it and them to their destination. He just seems like the type that would take a pay cut.

[H8R]

I'm just saying the Wonderlic, which essentially measures how quickly you can do petty math and word problems, doesn't have a correlation to how you do in the NFL. Now, I don't think he's an idiot, but he certainly was childish and hasn't lived up to expectations

You can coddle , I wont.

[rmcjacket23]

Okay, you're right, maybe pay cut isn't necessarily the right term, but let's say they wanted to structure it so that it's something like 5 years $45 million, and then have a base salary of like $40 million in year two and have the other base salaries across the contract be extremely low. If he truly wanted out of Cleveland, he wouldn't restructure that to lower the cap hit in year two, but let's say he wanted to play for the Ravens and then restructured that to keep the same contract value, but spread the cap hit out to a more reasonable amount over the course of the contract.

 

A player will take a pay cut if it's not a huge pay cut and it's more than what he could get on the open market, or he's really that attached to the city and the team. There are players who are willing to take discounts for the team because they are just that attached to where they are. It's just how it happens to work out sometimes. Not likely, but sometimes.

 

I don't think it's unrealistic to think that he'd take a pay cut, but an extension does seem likely as well. When he signed the contract, his agent and Ozzie both acknowledged this was a three year deal to be revisited after the first three years because the cap hit was unmanageable. Now, why they couldn't have gotten something done similar to what Ted Thompson did in Green Bay is beyond me, but what ever, point is, Joe knows he's not playing years four, five, and six at that cap hit. But as far as a pay cut goes, Joe is the one guy I can see doing it because this is the guy that went to McDonald's after getting his new contract, hadn't driven his new Corvette since he got it through training camp in 2013. He's a very easy going, low maintenance guy, it would seem. He even carried his own luggage at an airport to avoid paying for a trolley to take it and them to their destination. He just seems like the type that would take a pay cut.

1. I supposed a contract like that could work, but I doubt the NFL would ever approve it. They tried doing those exact same kind of deals when they had that "uncapped" season during the labor negotiations, and they end up penalizing teams like the Redskins for doing it.

2. I think Flacco would take a small pay cut, but not a large one. It could be PERCEIVED as a paycut, because if the next contract has an annual value less than $20M per year, then the public thinks its a paycut. But the point is... after this season, Flacco has no more guaranteed money on his contract due to be paid to him, which means the Ravens could cut him and not owe him another dime (much like Rice). The problem is... the large bonuses that they paid him are stretched out over his entire contract to reduce the cap space, and those would become due immediately against the cap, which means they won't cut him.

 

So if you are Joe, when you come up for negotiations before 2016, you want to get some more guaranteed money, since the contract you are under doesn't have any more. So, most likely, he would sign an extension that is perceived as being less than the previous one (under $20M average annual), but it is probably still for a good chunk of guaranteed money. What that does is make sure that Flacco has job stability and guaranteed money for the next 3-4 seasons at least.

 

Its just like Tom Brady's latest deal. He was PERCEIVED as having taken a "paycut" for the team, because people see a 5 year, $60M deal and think because he's averaging $12M a year he is vastly underpaid according to the market (which is debatable).

 

BUT... his deal is FULLY GUARANTEED. He is guaranteed $60M from 2013 through 2017, regardless of whether he is playing or not. He could retire before that, and the Patriots still owe him that money. To put that in perspective... Flacco's deal is only for $52M, which means, in theory, Brady could make more on his last deal than Flacco's alleged "record-breaking" deal. So the real question is... is Brady really underpaid? I think people would have a tough time finding an NFL team other than the Patriots that would give a 36 year old Tom Brady a guaranteed $60M to play for them.

[GrimCoconut]

Lol all this talk about Claiborne. It's really a toss up that we trade for him but it's purely fun speculation. I wouldn't count on the team acquiring him and I certainly wouldn't be happy trading Arthur Brown for a player who has been one of the worst CB since being drafting. Granted, Brown hasn't played this year but he looked pretty good last year and I think he has good potential.

If we traded for Claiborne, I don't think he's worth much. He's looked horrible. Then again, the Cowboys may want to retain him because he's looked so bad. They might not want to move him. It's hard to say. I do think there's something true about the Cowboys having a poor defense surrounding Claiborne because even Flowers hasn't looked as good as he did with Kansas City. Still, I'm not sure how much of his poor play is a result of his skill or intelligence and how much is a result of the talent around him.

[Drew P]

So, again, let me get this straight...

 

Because you did what a lot of people did and predicted Hurst would make this team, you are now certain that the team has inquired about Claiborne.

 

Well, again, I predicted that Hurst would make the roster, and I don't think the team has inquired about Claiborne.

 

Again, exact same credentials. Opinions are not facts.

 

I repeat; the team has inquired about Claiborne.

[GrimCoconut]

I repeat; the team has inquired about Claiborne.

Where did you hear this?

[TDubbs]

The team probably did inquire about Mo, they'd not be doing their due diligence if they didn't. I'm sure most of the teams have inquired when you hear a story like that, see if you can get some talent for cheap. Not much of a rumour ... 

[rmcjacket23]

The team probably did inquire about Mo, they'd not be doing their due diligence if they didn't. I'm sure most of the teams have inquired when you hear a story like that, see if you can get some talent for cheap. Not much of a rumour ... 

You typically only do due diligence on people you are actually interested in, of which there's no indication that this team is even remotely interested in him.

 

So far, this is nothing more than your typical, run-of-the-mill, fan generated rumor.

[Static]

source please?

[balfan23]

Point is im sure they have inquired, Dallas is a prior trading partner AND if they are looking at PS players im certain they have looked at players on the active rosters prior to scraping bottom..

I've seen no reports of this kind regarding Morris Claiborne. You can try to build a case where you think it would be logical that we'd pursue him and that, if we offered Brown that would get their interest (based on their needs), but to state this as fact is misinformation. I think we can all agree we've had enough of opinion being stated as fact over the past 2 weeks, if you get my drift ... 

 

Being correct in a previous speculation is not proof of your omnipotence. 

 

So, unless you are seeking a position with ESPN, either come up with a source, or admit you've initiated an argument based on fact vs. opinion. 

[TDubbs]

You typically only do due diligence on people you are actually interested in, of which there's no indication that this team is even remotely interested in him.

 

So far, this is nothing more than your typical, run-of-the-mill, fan generated rumor.

 

Yeah thats what I'd chalk it up to as well, typical wishful thinking lol. 

[CalvinSmoke]

If we traded Brown for Claiborne i would ask for Ozzie to promptly retire lol. (very respectfully of course)

[Drew P]

The team probably did inquire about Mo, they'd not be doing their due diligence if they didn't. I'm sure most of the teams have inquired when you hear a story like that, see if you can get some talent for cheap. Not much of a rumour ... 

 

Finally.

[52520Andrew]

Yeah I don't think we would trade Brown for Claiborne, Claiborne hasn't really done much and I doubt we want a guy who storms out like that. 

[Static]

Josh Robinson , Vikings , is an amazing young corner. 

[baltimorefan328]

Just a thought that came into my head...any chance the Ravens look to trade peirce to the Carolina Panthers. I'm sufficiently happy with taliaferro and forsett and believe we can find a 3rd string running back if necessary, like Touissant. The panthers have both stewart and williams injured and tolbert appears to be out for a while. With how their two rookies looked yesterday, they seemingly are in desperate need for help there. Would the ravens look to trade pierce? I'm thinking the ravens could try something like a 4th round pick and if the Panthers aren't willing then no sweat. Obviously a 4th round pick is high, but if the Panthers are desperate enough and bite, it could be a really good deal for the ravens because the Panthers are likely to finish closer to the bottom of the pack so that early 4th round pick could be very helpful come future trades or draft time

[rmcjacket23]

Just a thought that came into my head...any chance the Ravens look to trade peirce to the Carolina Panthers. I'm sufficiently happy with taliaferro and forsett and believe we can find a 3rd string running back if necessary, like Touissant. The panthers have both stewart and williams injured and tolbert appears to be out for a while. With how their two rookies looked yesterday, they seemingly are in desperate need for help there. Would the ravens look to trade pierce? I'm thinking the ravens could try something like a 4th round pick and if the Panthers aren't willing then no sweat. Obviously a 4th round pick is high, but if the Panthers are desperate enough and bite, it could be a really good deal for the ravens because the Panthers are likely to finish closer to the bottom of the pack so that early 4th round pick could be very helpful come future trades or draft time

I doubt it. The Panthers already have a large chunk of money committed to RBs, and I doubt they are going to trade for another one.

Plus, Pierce's value is sort of limited to just Baltimore. He's not a great fit in a lot of other places (not convinced he's a great fit here either).

[GrimCoconut]

If we trade anyone to the Panthers it'll be Hurst after he embarrassed them. They need a LT.

[Bobby]

And Claiborne now appears to have an ACL injury....so..........

[rmcjacket23]

If we trade anyone to the Panthers it'll be Hurst after he embarrassed them. They need a LT.

Don't think we would seriously entertain trading him either...

[GrimCoconut]

Don't think we would seriously entertain trading him either...

Lol apparently you don't quite grasp the concept of sarcasm.

[pep_meister]

Just a thought that came into my head...any chance the Ravens look to trade peirce to the Carolina Panthers. I'm sufficiently happy with taliaferro and forsett and believe we can find a 3rd string running back if necessary, like Touissant. The panthers have both stewart and williams injured and tolbert appears to be out for a while. With how their two rookies looked yesterday, they seemingly are in desperate need for help there. Would the ravens look to trade pierce? I'm thinking the ravens could try something like a 4th round pick and if the Panthers aren't willing then no sweat. Obviously a 4th round pick is high, but if the Panthers are desperate enough and bite, it could be a really good deal for the ravens because the Panthers are likely to finish closer to the bottom of the pack so that early 4th round pick could be very helpful come future trades or draft time

it's mind blowing that lamichael james is not on the carolina roster... good god their backup rb didn't look good at all.

[52520Andrew]

If we trade anyone to the Panthers it'll be Hurst after he embarrassed them. They need a LT.

 

The sad thing is we could probably get a decent haul for him after that performance lol, how much depends on if he can keep it going while Monroe is out but if he does well he would probably have some value at least. Still like him around to be the security blanket in case Monroe has more problems but it is a good problem to have if he can keep it up.

[GrimCoconut]

The sad thing is we could probably get a decent haul for him after that performance lol, how much depends on if he can keep it going while Monroe is out but if he does well he would probably have some value at least. Still like him around to be the security blanket in case Monroe has more problems but it is a good problem to have if he can keep it up.

I was being more rhetorical and probably theoretical than anything. Monroe having his health issues, I wouldn't move Hurst all. I'd probably wait until at least a year or two. It's move to have this kind of depth. And who knows, maybe we can make him look really terrific and trade him for a much higher pick in a few years? Or even get a 3rd round compensatory selection like the Bengals appear set to receive for Collins.

[52520Andrew]

I was being more rhetorical and probably theoretical than anything. Monroe having his health issues, I wouldn't move Hurst all. I'd probably wait until at least a year or two. It's move to have this kind of depth. And who knows, maybe we can make him look really terrific and trade him for a much higher pick in a few years? Or even get a 3rd round compensatory selection like the Bengals appear set to receive for Collins.

I knew you were joking around lol but I do think if he keeps doing well that he could have some value. I agree with you though that I would keep him around as a good backup is always a good thing to have

[Davesta]

So whats the deal with this dude? Is he on the trade block? Why isnt he active during games? draft bust?

[redlobster]

So whats the deal with this dude? Is he on the trade block? Why isnt he active during games? draft bust?

Hard to be called a draft bust when you do play you look solid but you are inactivated every week for bum players.

[rmcjacket23]

Hard to be called a draft bust when you do play you look solid but you are inactivated every week for bum players.

Yup, its just one big conspiracy...

 

SMH.

 

I think its officially time for this thread to die. All this thread keeps doing is rinse/repeating the fact that fans are convinced they are better talent evaluators than coaches.

[ellicottraven]

Yup, its just one big conspiracy...

 

SMH.

 

I think its officially time for this thread to die. All this thread keeps doing is rinse/repeating the fact that fans are convinced they are better talent evaluators than coaches.

It's not about being better talent evaluators rmc - it is about checks and balances like most things in life. The fans play an important role in keeping the evaluators and coaches seeing the reality from people (fans) they're being paid to please so they continue to watch!

[rmcjacket23]

It's not about being better talent evaluators rmc - it is about checks and balances like most things in life. The fans play an important role in keeping the evaluators and coaches seeing the reality from people (fans) they're being paid to please so they continue to watch!

Except no Ravens fan is going to stop watching because Arthur Brown is inactive on gameday. Coaches aren't paid to please the fans, they are paid to win football games. Because winning football games pleases fans.

 

I can't recall a single time where a coach went to the media or even to the public to ask them what their opinion is of a player, and especially, asked them who they think they should be starting on gameday. Coaches are as qualified as anybody to make decisions about on-field personnel, and thats precisely what they are paid to do.

 

There are countless coaches in this league who are employed by a team (and paid well for it) that are despised, disagreed with, and generally buried on message boards on a daily basis, and yet they continue to be employed by that franchise, because the franchise values their contribution to the team. There really is no phantom "checks and balances" that you indicate.