Arthur Brown Trade Rumors

[Fries]

Agree with you on everything. Unfortunately forums like to breed conspiracy theories, overreactions, etc. This is true for every team. "Said player is a bust" after 1 season, "said player is a future beast" after 2 games or highlight film, I can't believe the coaches don't play said player when the forums obviously prove he is the savior, etc etc.

At the end of the day, the coaches will play who deserves to play. I hope Brown proves he deserves to play! However we do not need more speed in the LB core. We need them to get off blocks. That's the problem. As for the secondary, we need a FS. I also truly believe talent is not the problem with our secondary. The problem is communication and breakdowns in zone responsibilities.

That is just it though... we do need speed(your 340lb DT shouldnt be making tackles 15 yards down field. Ngata is the man lol) and help in coverage on the underneath stuff. It would also help out the shorthanded DL rotation.

[rmcjacket23]

What does him being inactive have to do with him coming in and being a factor? He still practices with the team. He is not a rookie. He took defensive snaps last year and flashed. not to mention it is his job to be ready to play. Coaches are human bud and not all fans are irrational.

Not the point. My points are easy to understand.

 

1. When it comes to who gets the benefit of the doubt in personnel decisions between fans and coaches, its pretty easy to understand why I trust what coaches think about personnel more than what fans think about personnel. He does practice with the team... and something tells me that's a reason why he's not active on gameday. Remember, coaches are at the practice. Fans are not.

 

2. I've seen nothing so far to suggest that the coaching staff is looking to put three MLBs on the field at the same time. Through 3 games, I've seen nothing to suggest that the coaching staff thinks either Mosley or Smith is an inferior option to Brown, and therefore, if Brown were to be active, I don't suspect he would play much if at all. I haven't seen the week 3 snap counts yet, but I know Daryl and CJ played on 100% of them through the first two weeks, and I suspect the same thing happened in week 3. In short... one of them is likely going to have to play a whole lot worse for Brown to become anything more than a situational player. And as I said earlier... if I'm a Brown backer, I'm settling for baby steps first. Lets see if he can actually be active on gameday before we start calling for him to become a major factor.

[acranfor]

That is just it though... we do need speed(your 340lb DT shouldnt be making tackles 15 yards down field. Ngata is the man lol) and help in coverage on the underneath stuff. It would also help out the shorthanded DL rotation.

Hmmm, maybe, although I still think speed is negligible when our LBs just cannot shed blocks.

[acranfor]

I believe Dumervil had his best season at DE and at this point in his career changing to DE could actually be very good for Suggs.

This is a legit question to you; how would the transition to DE be different than how they are currently used? In my opinion, both Dum and Suggs are DEs from a responsibility standpoint. Upshaw is the only one who takes more 3-4 OLB responsibilities. Our front line as a whole (excluding Upshaw) is a 1 gap 4-3 responsibility based unit.

To expand, I hardly see Dum or Suggs in coverage. In addition, Dum hardly has contain responsibility and this seems to be true for Suggs as well - although it is often hard to know for certain who has contain on the edge. I have been noticing though, that Suggs often has been given the green light to rush and Mosley behind him sets contain. Upshaw, however, has a lot of instances as the contain man.

[Fries]

Not the point. My points are easy to understand.

1. When it comes to who gets the benefit of the doubt in personnel decisions between fans and coaches, its pretty easy to understand why I trust what coaches think about personnel more than what fans think about personnel. He does practice with the team... and something tells me that's a reason why he's not active on gameday. Remember, coaches are at the practice. Fans are not.

2. I've seen nothing so far to suggest that the coaching staff is looking to put three MLBs on the field at the same time. Through 3 games, I've seen nothing to suggest that the coaching staff thinks either Mosley or Smith is an inferior option to Brown, and therefore, if Brown were to be active, I don't suspect he would play much if at all. I haven't seen the week 3 snap counts yet, but I know Daryl and CJ played on 100% of them through the first two weeks, and I suspect the same thing happened in week 3. In short... one of them is likely going to have to play a whole lot worse for Brown to become anything more than a situational player. And as I said earlier... if I'm a Brown backer, I'm settling for baby steps first. Lets see if he can actually be active on gameday before we start calling for him to become a major factor.

Actually, that was a building block for your point that i hit with a wrecking ball. Have you ever played ball? Coaches can be narrow(ehhem cam cameron) and pigheaded like most humans. This coaching staff has made major in-game gaffes before. Its hard to believe they have never made a poor personnel decision. Sometimes we are so close to the problem we can't see it. You act as if we dont have a right to discuss the viability of a move to the 43. Why even come to a forum? Oh NM your here to straighten us dumb fans out... fooh.

[Fries]

Hmmm, maybe, although I still think speed is negligible when our LBs just cannot shed blocks.

dont mlb's have to shed more in a 34? Not as many big uglies to eat up blocks.

[The Raven]

dont mlb's have to shed more in a 34? Not as many big uglies to eat up blocks.

 

Depends on how good the linemen are.

[acranfor]

dont mlb's have to shed more in a 34? Not as many big uglies to eat up blocks.

I think the problems arise with screens, when the OLmen bypass our DL and get to the second level. I haven't noticed as much as a problem when our MLBs are attacking. We have been good against vanilla runs. We have been hurt by RB/TE screens and bubble screens.

[Fries]

Depends on how good the linemen are.

Yah, that is what i thought.

[The Raven]

Yah, that is what i thought.

 

You can run a 4-3 that protects the LBs better than a 3-4 and vice versa. It all depends on the players. 

[rmcjacket23]

Actually, that was a building block for your point that i hit with a wrecking ball. Have you ever played ball? Coaches can be narrow(ehhem cam cameron) and pigheaded like most humans. This coaching staff has made major in-game gaffes before. Its hard to believe they have never made a poor personnel decision. Sometimes we are so close to the problem we can't see it. You act as if we dont have a right to discuss the viability of a move to the 43. Why even come to a forum? Oh NM your here to straighten us dumb fans out... fooh.

Thats great and all... because fans have the luxury of second-guessing and creating their own solutions to problems that may or may not exist (in this case I'm not even sure what problem you are attempting solve).

 

But then again, on a daily basis on these boards, fans make in-game gaffes and personnel decision mistakes as well. The difference is... they're not accountable for anything, and therefore, its risk-free. Coaches decisions, naturally, are not risk-free. They don't have the luxury of making a suggestion on a fanboard, and if they are wrong, running away and hoping that nobody remembers it (which most people don't). Its not about whether the coaching staff has ever made a mistake before... its about the fact that some fans think they are smarter than the coaching staff, and for some very naive reason, they think that they consider things that the coaching staff doesn't.

 

Do you honestly believe that, possibly even in the preseason or in training camp, the coaching staff didn't at least consider this as a possibility? Its not like there's any provocative, radical ideas being floated around in here. If the coaching staff actually thought this was a good idea and it would make this team better, then I have no doubt they would do it, because that's kind of what they are coaching for.

 

But again, in the grand scheme of things, they have more knowledge than fans. At a minimum level, they see EXACTLY what fans see. They watch the games too... multiple times. They breakdown each individual play on a weekly basis. They have access to players on a daily basis, and they get to see what they do well and what they don't.

 

Fans, almost universally speaking, have NONE of that information. Its easy to say "well he was great in the preseason", but clearly the coaching staff doesn't take that as the gospel, just like they shouldn't. There were players who played pretty well in the preseason that didn't even make this team.

[Fries]

I think the problems arise with screens, when the OLmen bypass our DL and get to the second level. I haven't noticed as much as a problem when our MLBs are attacking. We have been good against vanilla runs. We have been hurt by RB/TE screens and bubble screens.

I need to go back and watch the screen plays that hurt us more carefully. All i know is Daryl doesn't look like the player he was last year. Whatever they do... i hope they get it together.

[Fries]

Thats great and all... because fans have the luxury of second-guessing and creating their own solutions to problems that may or may not exist (in this case I'm not even sure what problem you are attempting solve).

But then again, on a daily basis on these boards, fans make in-game gaffes and personnel decision mistakes as well. The difference is... they're not accountable for anything, and therefore, its risk-free. Coaches decisions, naturally, are not risk-free. They don't have the luxury of making a suggestion on a fanboard, and if they are wrong, running away and hoping that nobody remembers it (which most people don't). Its not about whether the coaching staff has ever made a mistake before... its about the fact that some fans think they are smarter than the coaching staff, and for some very naive reason, they think that they consider things that the coaching staff doesn't.

Do you honestly believe that, possibly even in the preseason or in training camp, the coaching staff didn't at least consider this as a possibility? Its not like there's any provocative, radical ideas being floated around in here. If the coaching staff actually thought this was a good idea and it would make this team better, then I have no doubt they would do it, because that's kind of what they are coaching for.

But again, in the grand scheme of things, they have more knowledge than fans. At a minimum level, they see EXACTLY what fans see. They watch the games too... multiple times. They breakdown each individual play on a weekly basis. They have access to players on a daily basis, and they get to see what they do well and what they don't.

Fans, almost universally speaking, have NONE of that information. Its easy to say "well he was great in the preseason", but clearly the coaching staff doesn't take that as the gospel, just like they shouldn't. There were players who played pretty well in the preseason that didn't even make this team.

So you feel it is your duty to let us fans know we are small. Gotcha. You dont need to explain to me what a coach does for a living. No need to continue...

[redlobster]

So you feel it is your duty to let us fans know we are small. Gotcha. You dont need to explain to me what a coach does for a living. No need to continue...

 

He wants you to know that Fans generally know very little about football, all the people in the Nfl are immensely more knowledgeable than us and never make mistakes or bad personnel moves. You know because people never get to positions that they have no business being in, or put people in their proverbial doghouses.

[rmcjacket23]

He wants you to know that Fans generally know very little about football, all the people in the Nfl are immensely more knowledgeable than us and never make mistakes or bad personnel moves. You know because people never get to positions that they have no business being in, or put people in their proverbial doghouses.

So you clearly agree then that the "doghouses" don't actually exist, and that they are, as you said, proverbial?

 

Can't be both real and proverbial.

[acranfor]

So you clearly agree then that the "doghouses" don't actually exist, and that they are, as you said, proverbial?

 

Can't be both real and proverbial.

You are in a losing battle. Most posters use circular logic in their arguments - "it is because it is" - or just generalized sarcasm with no backing. ANYWAY, like I said previously, I agree with your statements. Overall, there is no evidence that Brown deserves a starting roll over the current players. However, I do hope he gets a chance and is able to capitalize on that chance.

Go Ravens!

[CalvinSmoke]

This debate is going no where. I just wanna see Arthur Brown, I'm going to assume this is the last year Daryl Smith starts for us

[Static]

Arthur Brown for Kyle Fuller. 

[arnie_uk]

In cases like this, there is a direct need to be condescending to the fanbase, because sometimes the fanbase just simply doesn't get it. Or, more likely, they don't want to get it.

Coaches are coaches for a reason. They've earned the right to be coaches, and fans, of course, have not. There are a lot of things I complain about on these boards, but very, very, very rarely will I question why a coaching staff is playing a certain player over another.

Why don't I do that? Because I know better. I know that their football knowledge is greater than mine. I know that they are better at judging what is best for this football team than anybody who has EVER posted on a message board, and it will likely be that way for all of eternity.

It is why the phantom "Harbaugh doghouse" exists on these message boards and these message boards alone. No reasonable person thinks that the "Harbaugh doghouse" actually exists in reality. Its merely just a conjured up theory to explain something to people that either don't know reality or don't want to know reality. Maybe they can't stand the idea that a guy that they like the coaches don't feel is better than the guy above them, and most of the time, that's entirely the case.

hold the phone. Shut down the message board, fans aren't allowed opinions

[redlobster]

Arthur Brown for Kyle Fuller. 

After last night, I doubt fuller would get moved for much less than a 1st + more

[TDubbs]

After last night, I doubt fuller would get moved for much less than a 1st + more

 

Especially when their thin on CB with Tillman gone for the year ... 

[rmcjacket23]

After last night, I doubt fuller would get moved for much less than a 1st + more

Yeah, generally speaking, teams don't trade recent 1st round picks who quite frankly are exceeding their expectations for 2nd round picks who can't get on the field.

 

Particularly when one position is much more coveted than the other in this league.

[pitchblack_20]

would Arthur brown for Morris Claiborne be a possibility ?

[BmoreBird22]

Arthur Brown for Kyle Fuller.

Plus to first rounders and you just may have a deal

[BmoreBird22]

I believe Dumervil had his best season at DE and at this point in his career changing to DE could actually be very good for Suggs.

Doom had the most sacks of hishis career, and led the league, as am OLB. His coach was Dom Martindale, who is currently with the Ravens

[Dewy101]

would Arthur brown for Morris Claiborne be a possibility ?

We'd be losing big time in that trade

[Drew P]

We'd be losing big time in that trade

 

How so? a guy who will suit up and probably play immediately in Mo and a guy who hasnt sniffed the active 46 all season

[H8R]

How so? a guy who will suit up and probably play immediately in Mo and a guy who hasnt sniffed the active 46 all season

Play? Maybe play well? Doubtful... He's a crybaby and a quiter...Not sure he's smart enough to learn a new system just like that ... 4 .. That's all I gotta say!

[Drew P]

Play? Maybe play well? Doubtful... He's a crybaby and a quiter...Not sure he's smart enough to learn a new system just like that ... 4 .. That's all I gotta say!

 

I dont know him personally to make those claims but looking at the Ravens secondary i'd say he can fit right in

[bertopr]

Dude are u serious the guy sucks...why would we trade a good player for a horrible one? What because he was a first rd pick? Smh