Official Vent Thread: Who to cut, Who Played Well, Who is in the Dog House?

[ratedr]

Would be great if the defense could stop a team on their side of the field too.

[sflegend89]

The Ravens were one of the few teams teams to show interest and actually contact his agent, but again, a player has to want to take that third corner role, which is a big change from being the number one

 

I know where your coming from but what the depth chart says doesn't really mean squat at corner when your playing nearly every snap and being asked to cover the other team''s best wr if they line up on his side. That's still pretty much the same responsibilities he would have if he was listed as the #1  cb on the depth chart given our scheme (Which is the scary thing about Chykie playing in that role and having to cover guys like AJ Green)..

 

Preliminary contact with an agent is one thing but where's the evidence that we even made an offer or invited him for a visit. Seemed like we had preliminary interest but it never evolved into anything beyond just interest.

[The Raven]

We also picked up some FAs for defense as well. It wasn't just draft picks. But getting back to what we invested, we picked the exact same 3 positions with the first 3 picks the last 2 years. Perhaps, we should have bent that BPA thing just a tad and picked up some other positions. Then maybe we'd have an actual good defense instead of 3 good positions. Just sayin'.

 

And you act like this is the first season our defense has been lackluster. It's been this way ever since Pees came here so it really isnt' illogical or a stretch to place blame there.

 

No, I'm really not and I have no clue what you're talking about...

[The Raven]

Oh, here's something nobody's mentioned. Kelechi and Monroe suck at run blocking! I expect better from those two. 

[ravensdfan]

No, I'm really not and I have no clue what you're talking about...

 

Your "its the players" not Pees posts all over the forum.

 

Ever since he arrived our defense has been soft, vanilla and average at its best. A player is sometimes only as good as the coaching they receive.

 

Sometimes only as good as their DC positions them. Just like Cam never knew how to use certain players.

[K-Dog]

I think we might be keeping Juice in our back pocket for later down the stretch.

[GrimCoconut]

Oh, here's something nobody's mentioned. Kelechi and Monroe suck at run blocking! I expect better from those two. 

I haven't noticed as much but I'll watch them a bit closer. I think Kelechi played well overall, but then again that could be because we threw the ball a hundred times. 

[1/28/01]

I think we might be keeping Juice in our back pocket for later down the stretch.

If so, it'd be the dumbest and worst football decision for our team ever. Yeah, doubt this is any sort of strategy whatsoever.

[GrimCoconut]

I think we might be keeping Juice in our back pocket for later down the stretch.

Lol, I don't think that makes sense. We need to win divisional games. They're kind of a big deal. Ask the 2010 Seahawks. 

[The Raven]

Your "its the players" not Pees posts all over the forum.

 

Ever since he arrived our defense has been soft, vanilla and average at its best. A player is sometimes only as good as the coaching they receive.

 

Sometimes only as good as their DC positions them. Just like Cam never knew how to use certain players.

 

Pees sucks, players are amazing, cool story.

 

I haven't noticed as much but I'll watch them a bit closer. I think Kelechi played well overall, but then again that could be because we threw the ball a hundred times. 

 

Kelechi was good in pass pro but he really struggles to seal off his assignment on the backside. Say we're running inside zone to the strong side and he's responsible for the one technique. Since the first preseason game, he's struggled to block that one tech effectively. He's fine when he's on the play side, but he just can't seal the backside which is a problem in this scheme. Monroe is the same way. 

[BmoreBird22]

I know where your coming from but what the depth chart says doesn't really mean squat at corner when your playing nearly every snap and being asked to cover the other team''s best wr if they line up on his side. That's still pretty much the same responsibilities he would have if he was listed as the #1  cb on the depth chart given our scheme (Which is the scary thing about Chykie playing in that role and having to cover guys like AJ Green)..

 

Preliminary contact with an agent is one thing but where's the evidence that we even made an offer or invited him for a visit. Seemed like we had preliminary interest but it never evolved into anything beyond just interest.

He has to want to come in for a visit. You're saying all of this like he wants to be a Raven.

You're asking a grown man to take a smaller amount of money and a smaller role where he's no longer the guy. If you can't seem to understand that this is a two way street, I can't help you

[sflegend89]

Oh, here's something nobody's mentioned. Kelechi and Monroe suck at run blocking! I expect better from those two. 

 

I thought we ran the bell well and did a good job of creating running lanes, especially when Forsett took over, that was one of the few positives I got out of this game,

[The Raven]

I thought we ran the bell well and did a good job of creating running lanes, especially when Forsett took over, that was one of the few positives I got out of this game,

 

We did, but most of those good runs, in my view, came as a result of Zuttah, Yanda, and Wagner's strong blocking. There were a few times we ran left and the RB would bounce it between Yanda and Wagner for a solid gain. 

[ravefan52]

I was pretty pleased with the defense. They kinda choked at the end, but no way you can blame this loss on them. Having Webb out hurt too. Some of the young defenders look really well.

 

Offense is again incredibly inconsistent and I do think they lost us the game. Any production at all in the first half and we should win. It put them and the D in a bad situation. I'm hoping it gets a lot better as they settle into the new system. Yeah I don't get why Juice wasn't in the game plan today. He was a big part of the offense all preseason and it seemed to be working well. I want a real number one WR so bad. I believe can very well be the missing piece to making the offense a top one. 

[The Raven]

I think our game plan was to spread their defense out with three wide sets so we could focus on attacking their relatively weak secondary instead of playing into their hand and letting their LBs kill us.

 

They have a great LB group but only an average CB group, so the game plan called for more three wide and less Juice. Just my interpretation, but I think it's accurate. 

[GrimCoconut]

I thought the interior o-line played pretty darn well. The Osemele/Zuttah/Yanda combo, today, was an almost complete 180 from the joke that was the Shipley/Gradkowski/(a playing hurt) Yanda interior line from 2013.

Also, while Ricky Wagner had a rough outing (in his first career start, no less), he was no worse than Michael Oher on one of his "better" days. I believe he's going to settle-in sooner-rather-than-later.

It's Eugene Monroe that I'm questioning the most. Maybe I expected too much; but, he didn't play like the franchise LT, today, the Ravens signed him to be.

Monroe didn't have a good game and on top of it he hasn't had a good off-season. I think this is one we'll have to take on the chin for this year at the very least and how he rebounds next year. I will say that Monroe is better than Oher and even McKinnie at LT, which I guess isn't too great but it potentially the best OL Joe has ever had.

[ravensdfan]

 

How did they do that exactly?

 

By not forcing a punt? By not getting turnovers? By not getting any QB pressure? Did they not cheer enough from the sidelines?

 

I mean, so you're claiming that by being 3 pts down (definitely not the offense's fault) we couldn't blitz? 

 

covered their behind? Really? So the defense came from behind to take the lead? I must have missed that Pick 6. 

 

More like the defense couldn't force a punt to save their lives in the first half or get a sack or any pressure or a turnover. They made Dalton look like Peyton. 

 

I love how it is the offense's fault that Andy Dalton marched down the field at will. Was the defense tired from the starting kickoff today? Just imagining the game in their mind? Is that it?

[sflegend89]

He has to want to come in for a visit. You're saying all of this like he wants to be a Raven.

You're asking a grown man to take a smaller amount of money and a smaller role where he's no longer the guy. If you can't seem to understand that this is a two way street, I can't help you

 

That's completely unfounded, the offer sheet he took from SD was beyond modest.. 3M guaranteed for a corner of his caliber is minuscule money when you look at what guys like Talib got. Talib is making like 9M a year, we had the cap room to not just match SD's but up their offer. Flowers at 1/3 of of what Talib went for yearly is an absolute steal, there was wiggle room to take care of Flowers even better than SD did if we were that serious about signing him.

 

Your acting like SD paid equal to or more than market value on him and that's just not true, if anything they got him on a discount. As if we couldn't match or up that money on a premium corner with our allotted cap space if we so chose to. I can tell 100% it didn't have to do with us not being able to match his financials from SD, that's flat out wrong.

 

Flowers possibly not liking the role/fit has some legitimacy, us not being able to take care of him financially , no.

[The Raven]

How did they do that exactly?

 

By not forcing a punt? By not getting turnovers? By not getting any QB pressure? Did they not cheer enough from the sidelines?

 

I mean, so you're claiming that by being 3 pts down (definitely not the offense's fault) we couldn't blitz? 

 

covered their behind? Really? So the defense came from behind to take the lead? I must have missed that Pick 6. 

 

More like the defense couldn't force a punt to save their lives in the first half or get a sack or any pressure or a turnover. They made Dalton look like Peyton. 

 

I love how it is the offense's fault that Andy Dalton marched down the field at will. Was the defense tired from the starting kickoff today? Just imagining the game in their mind? Is that it?

 

well, it doesn't help the defense that the offense had two bad turnovers, and the punt team put the defense in a bad situation, too. That's three FGs right there that the defense might not have had to stop.

[ratedr]

Make it 8 things: where's the pass rush?

[ravensdfan]

well, it doesn't help the defense that the offense had two bad turnovers, and the punt team put the defense in a bad situation, too. That's three FGs right there that the defense might not have had to stop.

 

Um not really. 

 

INT was in the third. 

 

The fumble, absolute fact. Not much to do there really.

 

If we're going to talk ST though - they had one bad punt - how many times did they force the offense to begin within their own 20?

 

Like I said - let's use the judgmental sticks evenly.

[ravensdfan]

Make it 8 things: where's the pass rush?

 

I dont' think Pees believes in them. Or, for the other version, Suggs and Doom and Ngata suddenly can't shed blockers and it has nothing to do with coaching.

 

Pick you poison. Doesn't really matter - we haven't had a pass rush since about Game 9 of last season.

[ravensdfan]

I'm way too old to care about cool at all. I just am tired of everyone blaming the players for something that isn't a new problem. Something that has existed since the new DC came in. It may not be all on him, but his scheme doesn't work here even if it might work elsewhere and it is pretty apparent.

 

And, when you say things like how is he responsible for someone not shedding blocks  - that is pretty much saying it isn't him but the players. Pro bowl players who in your own words never had that problem before. Not sure how that is misrepresenting your position.

[pep_meister]

Two things:

1. When complaining about the porous first half offense, why does no one talk about how ineffective Pierce was or how the Ravens really didn't try to run the ball or stretch the field?

2. Why even bring up Brandon Flowers? Why would he come to Baltimore on a one year deal when he'd be the number three corner and only get about 80% of the snaps. At least in San Diego he's the number one and has a chance to prove his worth for next year

flowers would fill in for webb all for almost the entire season. webb is a wine glass playing on a football field

[ravensdfan]

Also, you know how everyone (or basically everyone) says how the offense going 3-and-out "tires the defense"? Well, let's look at it the other way: By having this "bend-don't-break" defense, which allows the opposing offense to have these 5-to-7 minute drives while only settling for 3 points, maybe Baltimore's defense hurts the rhythm/tempo of the Ravens offense since they can never get off the field.

 

Meh; I just don't know. I feel so many players have been misused by Pees, as well. I believe Lardarius Webb is the biggest case of this. Look back at his 2012 season (before he torn his ACL); Webb was no where near the same as he was in 2011. I could go on; but, whatever...

 

 

I tried to explain this as well. The SB lights out should have enlightened us to this fact. The offense cannot sit on the sidelines for that long (especially from the word "go") and be expected to be "on" and have their timing and rhythm. It would perhaps have been a little different if the offense had the ball first. 

 

It goes nowhere here where defense rules supreme (even when they are just bad) and it is never ever ever their fault. Or Pees fault. 

 

Just blame Flacco if you want to fit in 

[ratedr]

I'll be watching Detroit closely tomorrow. If Teryl Austin bring the Heat I'm gonna be really annoyed.

[Moderator 2]

Have not heard anyone mention the 15 yarders to keep drives alive

[D-Rey]

Pitta sat down in a soft spot in zone coverage. Played perfectly by Pitta if we are talking about the same play.

Actually there was a defender a bit in front of him where he sat. Pitta misread it. He should of kept going. I understand stand Flacco had a few extremely stupid plays, but he was on point 95% of the game. His WRs were horrendous. There was like 10 drop passes. Majority of them hit the WRs in the hands.

[Militant X 1]

Then you have to go 50/50 for today. He played a heck of a 2nd half of football.

 

 How did the game end?  Flacco holding the football and getting sacked!  With no attempt to throw the ball for a tying TD or pass interference.  Horrible!

 

I give the offense a little more leeway because let's face it... Our veteran leaders are on defense not to mention , Suggs/Ngata/Doom have been arguably the best at at their respective position at some point or another, and we have had the same coaching staff for 3 years on that side of the ball. Our offense ( as is Cincy) is under a new regime. I see the difference though here, is that Cincy has had a good offense for awhile, we haven't . The thing that Cincy does well is the use of a formations to isolate certain defenders. Go back to the Chad Johnson, Housh days... They used the same trips, quick screens, draws to keep us moving. The defense is lucky Marvin Jones is out with a foot injury, it would have been worse.

 

Good point. 

 

But, here is why I don't give that leeway to our offense.  After installing a new offense (during the offseason), all of the hype up we heard about the new West Coast/Zone Blocking Scheme and how we got a new O.C. in Kubiak; and how well the Ravens offense played in the preseason (that 1st preseason game in particular) and how they fixed the running game etc, etc, etc.  They still come out and play lethargically today as last season.  I hate seeing them on the field man to be honest cause as soon as they trot out there I'm thinking; "And, what are you guys going to do with the ball?"  Guess what I want to see from our offense is that they come out looking like and playing like juggernauts.  I'm just not seeing that from them!

 

@Mili

[ravensdfan]

 How did the game end?  Flacco holding the football and getting sacked!  With no attempt to throw the ball for a tying TD or pass interference.  Horrible!

 

 

 

 

 

Those guys were there in 2 seconds. He thought his line would hold and it didn't. He drove down there from the 12 yd line. Mistake? Yep. Erase everything else from the half? No.

 

If we're going to play that game then how did the Bengals get ahead? Oh yeah, that one play late in the 4th where the defense allowed AJ Green to burn them. Again. 

 

Gotta judge the same way.