All-Time NBA Draft: Discussion

[SecretAgentMan]

Only 13 of the last 16 Western Conference championships between them, with 10 total rings during that time span. A couple of bums.

IKR. They're absolutely terrible. What was I smoking?

[codizzle]

They aren't developed anymore at the lower levels, so it trickles up.

And everyone wants to be dirk... Not your post only player

[allblackraven]

IKR. They're absolutely terrible. What was I smoking?

You are lucky that Duncan is a nice guy, otherwise I could see some locker room / team chemistry issues

[T3hRaven]

Pippen is a great player, but I'm not sure he's the 15th greatest player of all time.

[beanfigger]

All teams will end up being great, but I'm going for a lockdown on Sportscenter's Top Ten it seems with my highlight machines thus far.

[beanfigger]

Pippen is a great player, but I'm not sure he's the 15th greatest player of all time.

 

Maybe not, but if he wanted him on his team he had to pick him now. I doubt he would have lasted until 30.  Also, look at his first two players. He's building a roster that will be very hard to score on with two all-time defenders. And you gotta give him props for posting a pic of his player posterizing the player selected just before him.

Edited August 27, 2014 by beanfigger

[SecretAgentMan]

You are lucky that Duncan is a nice guy, otherwise I could see some locker room / team chemistry issues

Yeah, Shaq and Kobe were never the best of friends. Kobe and Duncan won't be either, but they won't hate each other haha. 

 

I've got 2 fundamentally sound players. 2 top 15 greatest of all time, and 10 rings between the two of em. My team will not produce spectacular highlights outside of Kobe, but it will get the job done

[SecretAgentMan]

Pippen is a great player, but I'm not sure he's the 15th greatest player of all time.

He's not. But Duncan wasn't the BPA either. But he was great for what I want as a team. I needed someone who had one minor weakness or none at all on the court who gets the job done. 

[Mt. Crushmore]

All teams will end up being great, but I'm going for a lockdown on Sportscenter's Top Ten it seems with my highlight machines thus far.

 

Magic and Dr. J together is awesome.

[beanfigger]

Magic and Dr. J together is awesome.

 

Best alley-oop combo of all time?

[-Truth-]

It's not a moot point because Wilt was physically far superior than the players he went against. However, that's not the case any longer. Is Wilt far more physically gifted than Shaq? Shaq would have dropped 50 points a night back then too, easily. Russell was never defined by his numbers like Wilt so it's very different. Russell was a winner and the ultimate team player, kind of the opposite of Wilt. And, I'm not criticizing your selection. Wilt is an All Time Great player, but you have to consider the era he played in when making statements about his production. Just by looking at per 36 numbers you see a significant difference.

 

Wilt Chamberlain was one of the rarest athletic specimens in the history of the sport, which blunts the purpose behind the point. He would've been a superior athlete to most of his position peers in any era. I won't be as arrogant to demean the athleticism of O'Neal. He was a ball of muscle with a massive frame, which helped him become an unstoppable force in the paint. However, I will note the notable accomplishments of Chamberlain. He was clocked in at 4.6 in the 40 yard dash while shoeless and in dress pants. During an actual sporting event, he ran the 100 yard dash in 10.9 seconds. While it doesn't translate over precisely, it meant that he would've passed 40 yards in 4.36 seconds. His 49 seconds in the 440 yard dash was 3 seconds behind the then-world record. His best shot put of 56 feet was 2 feet behind the then-world record. He benched just under 500 lbs and his broad jump was a whopping 22 feet. He accomplished this as an amateur competitor who stood at 7'1 without shoes. Arnold Schwarzenegger used to tell stories about Chamberlain and Andre The Giant both picking him up with one arm while at the Conan shooting without so much as breaking a sweat. That was during a time that paled in comparison with regards to the advancement in nutrition and health in general that has allowed current athletes to maximize their potential. If we're projecting Chamberlain's prime into the current times, then this cannot be unaccounted for. Practically any debate regarding his athleticism is a one-sided affair. And this is a player who did what he could to prove that his greatness was beyond his athletic gifts. There's no surprise that a significant portion of the footage available on Chamberlain shows him scoring via the turnaround fadeaway, leaner, or hook shot. The point about the era a player played in should certainly be taken into account. But it should also apply to every player, especially when it is used as a negative. The dynasty that brewed in Boston fielded a significantly superior roster in that time frame. In the 9 years Wilt spent in Philadelphia, Boston had a minimum of 2 All-NBA players in any given year. Hal Greer was the only Philadelphia member to make it other than Wilt. Therefore, it's not fair to simply compare the teams' win totals at face value in order to judge the players. However, Russell was arguably the better teammate. He is viewed as the ultimate winner for a reason. I hold him in very high regard, as most fans do. This is why it shouldn't be disregarded when decades later Bill Russell still recalled allowing 64 points to Chamberlain in a Boston loss. He also recalled the game wherein Chamberlain recorded an NBA record 55 rebounds while the two played against each other. Those weren't just statistics against regular Joe Schmoes. Russell is far away one of the best defenders and rebounders to ever lace up his shoes. He's also arguably one of the Top 3 players of all time. If Chamberlain was able to challenge him in both of those areas, then in theory, no single individual from another era would've limited him to well below his career numbers. The only argument that's worth debating is that the amount of solid players in today's times is higher so sustainability would've been arguably more difficult. This is a valid point. Although that would also benefit Chamberlain in ways as he would presumably be on a better team. The point about considering the difference is inapplicable considering the fact that I did exactly that when stating that he probably wouldn't mirror his earlier numbers in the current times. If we're judging purely off of numbers, his per 36 totals were well in contention with the two others mentioned. And his efficiency from the floor surpassed his career average when he took less attempts. His assists per game also rose to 6 per game in that span. It's difficult to argue the point that he was completely about his own numbers when he lead the entire NBA in assists in one full season while playing at Center and even apologized to the Knicks players after scoring the 100 points. With that in mind, reducing him to empty numbers or only statistical outputs does a disservice to what he offered. He was one of the best players of all time and could easily be very dominant in today's NBA.

[-Truth-]

This whole post, which I cut down to save space, is great. There are so many positives for all these guys that arguing for your guy is so easy and very effective. Arguing AGAINST any of these guys is unnecessary and causes you to lack credibility. If you like Russel or Alcinder better, tell me why they're great. Don't make a fool of yourself by trying to act like Wilt or anyone else drafted in this thing is not.

 

Thank you and I'm right there with you. It's entirely understandable to point out flaws in what a player offers. But that's as long as it's done while granting respects to the positives that one offers. Simply going on a berate parade paints a skewed picture of the player being discussed. By the way, I was strongly considering Magic Johnson and was hoping that Julius Erving would fall to my second selection. That is an insane combination.

Edited August 27, 2014 by -Truth-

[MoveThoseChains]

Pippen is a great player, but I'm not sure he's the 15th greatest player of all time.

 

I agree. I don't think he is the 15th best player of all time, I say he is in the 20-30 range. But, if we are building a team, their is no denying his overall game. Him alongside Hakeem is a pretty damn good duo in my opinion, and I don't believe Pippen would've been available at my next pick. 

[codizzle]

Scottie pippen????

Scottie Pippen????? WHOA

[Gordo52]

Best alley-oop combo of all time?

Most definitely. Love your combo the most so far.

[beanfigger]

I agree. I don't think he is the 15th best player of all time, I say he is in the 20-30 range. But, if we are building a team, their is no denying his overall game. Him alongside Hakeem is a pretty damn good duo in my opinion, and I don't believe Pippen would've been available at my next pick. 

 

You're building the kind of team I had initially envisioned for myself had things fallen differently. Lockdown defenders who are still very dangerous on the other end, not to mention proven winners. Solid building blocks for sure, and you are certainly correct that he wouldn't be there at pick 30.

Edited August 27, 2014 by beanfigger

[gabefergy]

Wilt Chamberlain was one of the rarest athletic specimens in the history of the sport, which blunts the purpose behind the point. He would've been a superior athlete to most of his position peers in any era. I won't be as arrogant to demean the athleticism of O'Neal. He was a ball of muscle with a massive frame, which helped him become an unstoppable force in the paint. However, I will note the notable accomplishments of Chamberlain. He was clocked in at 4.6 in the 40 yard dash while shoeless and in dress pants. During an actual sporting event, he ran the 100 yard dash in 10.9 seconds. While it doesn't translate over precisely, it meant that he would've passed 40 yards in 4.36 seconds. His 49 seconds in the 440 yard dash was 3 seconds behind the then-world record. His best shot put of 56 feet was 2 feet behind the then-world record. He benched just under 500 lbs and his broad jump was a whopping 22 feet. He accomplished this as an amateur competitor who stood at 7'1 without shoes. Arnold Schwarzenegger used to tell stories about Chamberlain and Andre The Giant both picking him up with one arm while at the Conan shooting without so much as breaking a sweat. That was during a time that paled in comparison with regards to the advancement in nutrition and health in general that has allowed current athletes to maximize their potential. If we're projecting Chamberlain's prime into the current times, then this cannot be unaccounted for. Practically any debate regarding his athleticism is a one-sided affair. And this is a player who did what he could to prove that his greatness was beyond his athletic gifts. There's no surprise that a significant portion of the footage available on Chamberlain shows him scoring via the turnaround fadeaway, leaner, or hook shot. The point about the era a player played in should certainly be taken into account. But it should also apply to every player, especially when it is used as a negative. The dynasty that brewed in Boston fielded a significantly superior roster in that time frame. In the 9 years Wilt spent in Philadelphia, Boston had a minimum of 2 All-NBA players in any given year. Hal Greer was the only Philadelphia member to make it other than Wilt. Therefore, it's not fair to simply compare the teams' win totals at face value in order to judge the players. However, Russell was arguably the better teammate. He is viewed as the ultimate winner for a reason. I hold him in very high regard, as most fans do. This is why it shouldn't be disregarded when decades later Bill Russell still recalled allowing 64 points to Chamberlain in a Boston loss. He also recalled the game wherein Chamberlain recorded an NBA record 55 rebounds while the two played against each other. Those weren't just statistics against regular Joe Schmoes. Russell is far away one of the best defenders and rebounders to ever lace up his shoes. He's also arguably one of the Top 3 players of all time. If Chamberlain was able to challenge him in both of those areas, then in theory, no single individual from another era would've limited him to well below his career numbers. The only argument that's worth debating is that the amount of solid players in today's times is higher so sustainability would've been arguably more difficult. This is a valid point. Although that would also benefit Chamberlain in ways as he would presumably be on a better team. The point about considering the difference is inapplicable considering the fact that I did exactly that when stating that he probably wouldn't mirror his earlier numbers in the current times. If we're judging purely off of numbers, his per 36 totals were well in contention with the two others mentioned. And his efficiency from the floor surpassed his career average when he took less attempts. His assists per game also rose to 6 per game in that span. It's difficult to argue the point that he was completely about his own numbers when he lead the entire NBA in assists in one full season while playing at Center and even apologized to the Knicks players after scoring the 100 points. With that in mind, reducing him to empty numbers or only statistical outputs does a disservice to what he offered. He was one of the best players of all time and could easily be very dominant in today's NBA.

I'm not even going to try to read this, but I'm sure you had some really good things to say. My opinion isn't going to change on the matter though.

[gabefergy]

I'm super shocked to see Scottie Pippen go this early. There's probably at least 25 players I would take before thinking about him.

[beanfigger]

I see one huge value hanging out there for someone in the next few picks.

[allblackraven]

I agree. I don't think he is the 15th best player of all time, I say he is in the 20-30 range. But, if we are building a team, their is no denying his overall game. Him alongside Hakeem is a pretty damn good duo in my opinion, and I don't believe Pippen would've been available at my next pick. 

I really don't see anything wrong with taking Pippen with the 15th pick. He was just awesome defender, probably the best ever at his position.

[T3hRaven]

I see one huge value hanging out there for someone in the next few picks.

 

There's one guy I can't believe hasn't been taken yet.

[allblackraven]

There's one guy I can't believe hasn't been taken yet.

Are you thinking Rondo or Westbrook?

[gabefergy]

Are you thinking Rondo or Westbrook?

Shhhhh!

[allblackraven]

Shhhhh!

I did my best to stay quiet on the issue but the issue won

[Birdest]

[Inqui]

One pick away and there are two guys I really like. Same thing as a few nights ago, any takers for my board?

[Birdest]

One pick away and there are two guys I really like. Same thing as a few nights ago, any takers for my board?

KG? D-Rob?

[beanfigger]

KG? D-Rob?

Good pick on West. Bad etiquette on discussing names of future picks.

[Birdest]

Good pick on West. Bad etiquette on discussing names of future picks.

My bad. It'll never happen again .

[beanfigger]

My bad. It'll never happen again .

That was serious value with the West pick, though. Top Ten player at 17.