All-Time NBA Draft: Discussion

[Birdest]

Move the Chains K Coast squad breakdown:

 

Starters: Bob Cousy (best value), Dwyane Wade (biggest reach), Scottie Pippen, Kevin McHale, Hakeem Olajuwon

 

Bench: Guards - Walt Frazier, Hal Greer, Manu Ginobili

            Forwards - Chris Mullin, Jerry Lucas, Kevin Love

            Center - Marcus Camby

 

Let me first say that picking Wade as a reach is by default. He's a good player, but all the other picks were on point. I had to pick one. Waiting on a PG for so long and still landing Cousy is nuts, and the rest of us should be ashamed to let it happen. You certainly focused on defense more than the rest of us, but it was not so much a detriment to the other end because your guys can still do damage offensively. Your late round picks were all luxury selections after giving yourself such a stacked lineup, so no problems there, either. You mixed some of your personal favorites with some of the all-time greats from history, and you did a solid job grabbing players from all eras.

 

Biggest strength: All around talent at each position. You can beat teams in so many ways with so many different players. Your 1-2-3 can run with anyone; your 4-5 can bang down low; you have both shooters and defenders on your bench for whatever the situation calls for. It would be really hard to game plan for a team like this.

 

Biggest weakness: I'm nitpicking here, but I'd say post-play depth. Your starting 4 and 5 can certainly hold their own down low, but if either was off or found themselves in foul trouble, you'd be in trouble in that area. This is especially true if The Dream had to sit for a spell, as you don't have much in terms of offense to sub in. However, planning to play him nearly all game is certainly not a poor idea. He's the man.

 

Starters A-   Bench A-   Overall A-

Imagine Walt Frazier - Dwyane Wade - Scottie Pippen - Kevin McHale - Hakeem Olajuwon. I think he has the best defense in this draft.

[beanfigger]

Birdest's The Beauty and The Beast squad breakdown:

 

Starters: Dennis Johnson, Jerry West, Rick Barry, Dennis Rodman (biggest reach), Shaquille O'Neal

 

Bench: Guards - John Havlicek (best value), Dave Bing, Jo-Jo White

            Forwards - Dave Cowens, Paul Pierce, Billy Cunningham, Dan Issel

 

When you let Magic slip to me in the first, I thought it might be awesome picking after you because we were obviously valuing different types of players. I thought the same when Move took Pippen in the second. Boy was I wrong. You both continued to steal my guys right out from under me throughout. I really like this team, and I think you went for great value throughout. I put Rodman as your reach only because I think you found a couple players at his position with equal to better talent later on, but Rodman is still a beast. I think you may find more minutes for some of your bench guards than DJ, but no complaints for that position, either. I think you have a great team, but there is one clear weakness, that will be addressed later.

 

Biggest strength: The 2-3 rotation. West, Havlicek, Barry, Pierce... That's awesome. Keep the little guys worrying about transition and setting these guys up, and free the big guys to focus on rebounds, defense, and taking advantage of the fact that no one can double-team them because of the shooting.

 

Biggest weakness: Size. Outside of Shaq, your biggest guys are like 230. Don't get me wrong, they are all studs who will find a way to rebound and defend, but if Shaq goes to the bench with foul trouble, the other stellar centers in this draft will have a field day beating your guys up down low. Worse yet, when Shaq has to ride the bench late because he can't hit free throws, the opposition will have an obvious attack plan and plenty of offensive board opportunities to get back into games.

 

Starters B+   Bench A   Overall A-

[beanfigger]

I would personally go with outside shooting as the weakness, at least among the starters.

 

I considered that, but he clearly addressed that with his depth, so I went another way.

 

Imagine Walt Frazier - Dwyane Wade - Scottie Pippen - Kevin McHale - Hakeem Olajuwon. I think he has the best defense in this draft.

 

Absolutely.

[allblackraven]

allblackraven's Morningside for Life squad breakdown:

 

Starters: Oscar Robertson, Ray Allen, Clyde Drexler (best value), Elvin Hayes, Moses Malone

 

Bench: Guards - Kevin Johnson, Steve Francis (biggest reach)

            Forwards - Chris Webber, Cliff Robinson, Peja Stojakovic

            Centers - Artis Gilmore, Vlade Divac

 

This team started with a huge bang, and the values continued throughout the early half of the draft. This is the best starting five of my ten opposing teams. I can't imagine getting better options for your starting five at your position in the draft. One interesting thing is that I think somehow if you listed your picks in order of round side by side with your picks listed in order of best to worst player, those lists would match exactly. That is how it is supposed to go, but I don't think that is the case for any other team. You started to go with more of your favorites later on, and you completely forgot about the players from earlier eras (odd considering you did nearly the opposite to start things off). You must have really liked that Kings team from the early 2000s that just couldn't get the better of Kobe and Shaq in the postseason.

 

Biggest strength: The starting five. Quite simply, I think it dominates the other teams 1-5. If no one ever got tired, injured or fell into foul trouble, I'd say you win almost every night with these guys.

 

Biggest weakness: Depth. The problem with narrowing your focus to players you enjoyed watching in recent memory is that you quickly run out of talent from a truncated era. The players are good, just not all time greats. This is especially true for your 2 and 4 positions, where you have little to no rotation at all.

 

Starters A   Bench C-   Overall B+ (the amazing starting five brings the average up)

 

Thanks. I think it's a fair assessment with perhaps one partial disagreement and that's depth. You are right in what you say about it but I didn't want to draft specific players for specific positions, simply because where I picked, more often than not, drop in quality was significant in comparison to starters. So I tried to put together a team that can trouble others by versatility - giving them lot of different looks and different type of play (on offense in particular) in an attempt to disguise" lack of depth at particular position. As an example - on any given night I'm sure at least one of Allen, Peja, Robinson is bound to get hot from downtown, so I can rest guys.

 

There are two reasons for selecting players from the more recent era with my bottom half picks - apart from the greatest ones which I had an opportunity to watch a lot, I know only what I could read on other (second, third tier) older guys. It was a deliberate choice on my part to pick players who I watched, knowing exactly what they bring and how that looks like on the court.

 

You are correct on the other reason - Kings from early 2000s are "my team". I'd argue that they managed to get better of Shaq and Kobe but Horry was just too much. And the refs. Peja and Divac are my homies from the old country, so there's that, as well. Funny thing is - my favourite player from that team is yet to be selected and he'll be Mr Irrelevant in this draft.

 

I really enjoyed the game - all you guys obviously know a lot about basketball and didn't make it easy on other ten people. I just wish this league was possible and we actually square off in real games. Damn.

Edited September 18, 2014 by allblackraven

[gabefergy]

I considered that, but he clearly addressed that with his depth, so I went another way.

 

 

Absolutely.

Do me pelase.

[MoveThoseChains]

Move the Chains K Coast squad breakdown:

 

Starters: Bob Cousy (best value), Dwyane Wade (biggest reach), Scottie Pippen, Kevin McHale, Hakeem Olajuwon

 

Bench: Guards - Walt Frazier, Hal Greer, Manu Ginobili

            Forwards - Chris Mullin, Jerry Lucas, Kevin Love

            Center - Marcus Camby

 

Let me first say that picking Wade as a reach is by default. He's a good player, but all the other picks were on point. I had to pick one. Waiting on a PG for so long and still landing Cousy is nuts, and the rest of us should be ashamed to let it happen. You certainly focused on defense more than the rest of us, but it was not so much a detriment to the other end because your guys can still do damage offensively. Your late round picks were all luxury selections after giving yourself such a stacked lineup, so no problems there, either. You mixed some of your personal favorites with some of the all-time greats from history, and you did a solid job grabbing players from all eras.

 

Biggest strength: All around talent at each position. You can beat teams in so many ways with so many different players. Your 1-2-3 can run with anyone; your 4-5 can bang down low; you have both shooters and defenders on your bench for whatever the situation calls for. It would be really hard to game plan for a team like this.

 

Biggest weakness: I'm nitpicking here, but I'd say post-play depth. Your starting 4 and 5 can certainly hold their own down low, but if either was off or found themselves in foul trouble, you'd be in trouble in that area. This is especially true if The Dream had to sit for a spell, as you don't have much in terms of offense to sub in. However, planning to play him nearly all game is certainly not a poor idea. He's the man.

 

Starters A-   Bench A-   Overall A-

 

Thanks for the breakdown. If I continued to participate in the final three rounds, I would definitely of added another center/post player who's strength is offense. When I broke my team down, post play from the bigs on my bench is a weakness I observed. I'll take an A- across the board, appreciate the honesty man.

[MoveThoseChains]

I would personally go with outside shooting as the weakness, at least among the starters.

 

This is another weakness I observed as well. I don't have a "reliable" three point option among my starters. Wade can hit threes, but thats not his game. Pippen was pretty solid in bringing the ball up on a semi-fast break and pulling up for three, but in half-court offense, three pointer was not a deadly threat from him. Ginobili and Mullin can certainly make threes, as well as Love, but I'm pretty thin with three point shooters. If I participated in the final three rounds, I would've used at least one selection on a player who was pretty solid at shooting threes consistently. Thanks for your observation.

[MoveThoseChains]

Imagine Walt Frazier - Dwyane Wade - Scottie Pippen - Kevin McHale - Hakeem Olajuwon. I think he has the best defense in this draft.

 

Thank you, sir. Defense was definitely on my mind during each selection, as I wanted to find all around players as best as possible. If I was a coach or GM for an actual team, I would try to do the same. Just my personal preference on how to build a team, as everyone has some sort of strategy that can be effective.

[MoveThoseChains]

Also, I wanted to have champions on my team. Three players on my team haven't won a NBA Championship - Chris Mullin, Kevin Love, and Marcus Camby. Mullin did win two Olympic gold medals though, and Love has a nice chance of winning one during his time in Cleveland. I'm not going to count how many rings I have as a team total, because I don't believe total number of rings combined on a team is a fair assessment of an all-time draft. I do believe winning at least one has an impact though, as championship DNA is important. 

[beanfigger]

gabe's team breakdown:

 

Starters: Chris Paul, George Gervin, Charles Barkley, Dirk Nowitzki (biggest reach), Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

 

Bench: Guards - Chauncey Billups, David Thompson, Jeff Hornacek

            Forwards - Carmelo Anthony (best value), Adrian Dantley, Blake Griffin

             Center - Dwight Howard

 

This team poses a simple question to all opponents. Can you score with me? It would be hard to find a positive answer to that. If I were to find a perfect coach for this team, it may be George Karl because this reminds me of all his squads who would win 55-60 games/year by an average of 118-112. Watching games with this team would be guaranteed fun. Even if some of his scorers were off, there's little chance of this team slowing down because he has a seemingly endless supply of bucket-fillers coming off the bench. I also feel he picked almost every player just about exactly where they belonged in the draft. I could have imagined a squad looking almost exactly like this if I was looking for high-scoring players at his draft position. I don't think there are many reaches or incredible values, but I chose a couple anyway. The Carmelo pick looks a lot better in Round 6 than a lot of players from the last 20 years who were picked in Rounds 3 and 4. The Dirk pick looked worse to me at the time than it does after seeing how the squad ended up. I don't really think he belongs in the top 25 picks of all time, but he does deserve to be picked as a starter. I was concerned that gabe might miss out on some smaller, faster scorers by going so big early, but his next three rounds certainly eased that concern. Essentially, the Dirk "reach" is cancelled out by the Carmelo "value", and gabe was not hurt by going Dirk at 25.

 

Biggest strength: I've already mentioned it. This team can score. Ridiculous talents who can shoot and display offensive skills everywhere you look. He went big early on to have an early advantage there (then he picked Dwight Howard just to rub it in), then he found supreme perimeter talent in the middle rounds to find a great offensive balance.

 

Biggest weakness: Not much here. I'll say defense. It's not that he doesn't have good defensive players mixed in, but I just feel this team will be more focused on running and scoring, which will take away some from the defensive end. I'd be a little concerned shutting down a potential comeback with your best bench defender because he can't close out games at the free throw line, but you'll probably just keep scoring to keep the lead anyway, so it doesn't matter. I'd maybe like a little more diversity from the bench in terms of role players because you don't need as much from them scoring-wise.

 

Starters: B+   Bench: B   Overall: B+

[-Truth-]

This is another weakness I observed as well. I don't have a "reliable" three point option among my starters. Wade can hit threes, but thats not his game. Pippen was pretty solid in bringing the ball up on a semi-fast break and pulling up for three, but in half-court offense, three pointer was not a deadly threat from him. Ginobili and Mullin can certainly make threes, as well as Love, but I'm pretty thin with three point shooters. If I participated in the final three rounds, I would've used at least one selection on a player who was pretty solid at shooting threes consistently. Thanks for your observation.

You've mentioned it already, but having players like Mullin, Love and Ginobili significantly helps in this area. Each would be paired with great defenders when on the floor while helping with spacing. You're on point in your assessment of your starters in this facet but your focus on having reserves capable in this facet should help mask the issue. Didn't mean to come off as if that was my only assessment of the team and apologize if I did.

[gabefergy]

gabe's team breakdown:

 

Starters: Chris Paul, George Gervin, Charles Barkley, Dirk Nowitzki (biggest reach), Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

 

Bench: Guards - Chauncey Billups, David Thompson, Jeff Hornacek

            Forwards - Carmelo Anthony (best value), Adrian Dantley, Blake Griffin

             Center - Dwight Howard

 

This team poses a simple question to all opponents. Can you score with me? It would be hard to find a positive answer to that. If I were to find a perfect coach for this team, it may be George Karl because this reminds me of all his squads who would win 55-60 games/year by an average of 118-112. Watching games with this team would be guaranteed fun. Even if some of his scorers were off, there's little chance of this team slowing down because he has a seemingly endless supply of bucket-fillers coming off the bench. I also feel he picked almost every player just about exactly where they belonged in the draft. I could have imagined a squad looking almost exactly like this if I was looking for high-scoring players at his draft position. I don't think there are many reaches or incredible values, but I chose a couple anyway. The Carmelo pick looks a lot better in Round 6 than a lot of players from the last 20 years who were picked in Rounds 3 and 4. The Dirk pick looked worse to me at the time than it does after seeing how the squad ended up. I don't really think he belongs in the top 25 picks of all time, but he does deserve to be picked as a starter. I was concerned that gabe might miss out on some smaller, faster scorers by going so big early, but his next three rounds certainly eased that concern. Essentially, the Dirk "reach" is cancelled out by the Carmelo "value", and gabe was not hurt by going Dirk at 25.

 

Biggest strength: I've already mentioned it. This team can score. Ridiculous talents who can shoot and display offensive skills everywhere you look. He went big early on to have an early advantage there (then he picked Dwight Howard just to rub it in), then he found supreme perimeter talent in the middle rounds to find a great offensive balance.

 

Biggest weakness: Not much here. I'll say defense. It's not that he doesn't have good defensive players mixed in, but I just feel this team will be more focused on running and scoring, which will take away some from the defensive end. I'd be a little concerned shutting down a potential comeback with your best bench defender because he can't close out games at the free throw line, but you'll probably just keep scoring to keep the lead anyway, so it doesn't matter. I'd maybe like a little more diversity from the bench in terms of role players because you don't need as much from them scoring-wise.

 

Starters: B+   Bench: B   Overall: B+

Thanks! You pretty much nailed it with my team strategy. I wanted guys who could score, and I wanted guys who  could score in a variety of ways. I also agree that defense is probably my biggest weakness, especially at the forward position, but having a couple of all time great defenders at C should help there.

[MoveThoseChains]

You've mentioned it already, but having players like Mullin, Love and Ginobili significantly helps in this area. Each would be paired with great defenders when on the floor while helping with spacing. You're on point in your assessment of your starters in this facet but your focus on having reserves capable in this facet should help mask the issue. Didn't mean to come off as if that was my only assessment of the team and apologize if I did.

 

Oh no, I didn't have any problem whatsoever with your assessment of the team. No need to apologize. 

[-Truth-]

So who's up?

[Ed_Reed20]

So who's up?

Not sure. Are beanfigger and MTC not doing the remaining rounds?

Edited September 19, 2014 by Ed_Reed20

[Inqui]

Not sure. Are beanfigger and MTC not doing the remaining rounds?

They're both out, so I believe you're up.

[Inqui]

Not sure. Are beanfigger and MTC not doing the remaining rounds?

 

You are indeed up - this is why I shouldn't check the draft after a long week. References:

 

12 is enough for me as well. This was fun, fellas. Could I get a team grade, Bean? No rush, do it whenever you have time. Thanks.

 

We've come to a screeching halt with this thing over the past few rounds. I think 12 is enough for me, so that's one less person to worry about waiting for the last three.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Inqui

[Inqui]

Inqui's Conchord Down squad breakdown:

 

Starters: Steve Nash, Pete Maravich (best value), Larry Bird, Karl Malone, David Robinson

 

Bench: Guards - Maurice Cheeks, Alvin Robertson

            Forwards - Paul Arizin, Dolph Schayes, Dave Debusschere, Chris Bosh (biggest reach)

            Center - Bill Walton

 

This squad best resembles a team that I might have drafted myself if I were in the same draft position, so naturally, I like it a lot. It's hard to find a flaw. I only chose Bosh as your reach because everyone else is such a stud, and you were already stacked at that particular position. I am still sore that you stole Debusschere from me, and that could have easily been labeled your best value pick. I want to poke holes, but I can't.

 

Biggest strength: Look at that list of forwards. Ridiculous. You have everything you could ever want from that position, and you have a ton of versatility there, as well.

 

Biggest weakness: It's hard to find one. Maybe guard depth? I don't know. Not a ton of scoring there outside of Maravich, but they can all certainly stuff the stat sheet in other areas.

 

Starters A   Bench A   Overall A

Cheers. I wanted to build a roster similar to what San Antonio's doing now - one that can make the extra pass and kill you from outside. And despite not really fitting that mould per se, I think Malone and Robinson make it click. The defensive-minded second team, with like a million All-Defensive First Team nominations between them, should prevent blowouts and provide options.

 

Agree about Bosh being a reach, though like I said a couple of pages back, I want to be able to play small ball at times and he's a solid guy to have coming off the bench.

[Inqui]

 

With the 6th pick in 2014 NBA All-Time Draft, I select

You've been skipped. Sorry, I should have been more onto this.

 

 

With the 5th pick in 2014 NBA All-Time Draft, the Muppet Overdoughs select...

 

You're up.

[-Truth-]

Sorry for the late selection. I didn't have a chance to sign on since Saturday night/Sunday morning. The last few selections are the toughest considering that there will be targets who will be left on the board. In the end, I decided to go with Bobby Jones. Arguably one of the best defenders of all time, certainly one of the most versatile, Jones has all the makings of standout reserve. Although he significantly lacked range, Jones was a decent passer, a solid rebounder, and lights out in every facet on the defensive end. He also didn't settle for bad shots, which showed in his 11th all time rating in FG%. With the line up of Joe Dumars, Sidney Moncrief, Bobby Jones, Wilt Chamberlain/Nate Thurmond, and Dikembe Mutombo, I feel like I could give opposing offenses trouble when needed be.

[SecretAgentMan]

I'm done... I can't wait anymore... Good game guys. It was fun.....

[allblackraven]

Do me pelase.

 

I lost track of who is going to finish 15 rounds but I think you might be on the clock, then BALTIMOREFLACCO, then you two again in reverse order. Well, in normal order but you know what I mean.

[Inqui]

With the 2nd overall pick, I take 

You're up.

 

 

With the 1st pick in 2014 DaF NBA Draft, the Smokesters select

You're next.

[allblackraven]

 

You're next.

 

 

From memory, Smoke decided to go 12 rounds only

[allblackraven]

Do me pelase.

 

Your turn again, BALTIMOREFLACCO is now skipped (if still playing).

[Inqui]

Capping the draft off with a guy I wanted in Round 11, and my third PG. Sweet.

 

More perimeter shooting from the guard position would have been nice, but overall I can't complain about how that shook out.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Inqui

[allblackraven]

So, this is all wrapped up, I guess. It's been fun.

[Inqui]

So, this is all wrapped up, I guess. It's been fun.

That was probably the biggest fizzle to end one of these draft games. You're right though, it was good and I'm down for it if we do another one next year.

[-Truth-]

That was probably the biggest fizzle to end one of these draft games. You're right though, it was good and I'm down for it if we do another one next year.

 

Slow burning at the end, for sure. My busyness didn't help matters neither. I'll be down as well.

[allblackraven]

My starting center and the legend passed away.

 

RIP Moses Malone.