Official Vent Thread : Cut who? who needs to walk home!

[ratedr]

just joking around....it's preseason.

True but just as some here are uneasy you can bet Giants fans aren't looking at two straight 1/9s and saying "it's just preseason."

 

We'll see how Saturday goes.

[Tank 92]

      

[Too Raven]

Here's a question...which WR should be cut? Thompson looks to be a legit KR/PR. Campanaro, Butler,and Aiken look to have more of an impact in the receiving role than don't kill me...Jacoby. Jones was a our SB hero yes and I love that dude for that. He's what 30 now and has never lived up to his WR 2 role...where campanaro has a legitimate shot at talking over for Smith Sr. And Butler could have a bright future with us. I'd hate to have another Rainey situation happen where we fans see a UDFA grow with us only to lose him trying to sneak him on the PS. Or do we just cut Aiken...if u ask me he looks better than Jacoby.

 

Haven't seen enough from Steve Smith yet to believe he can come remotely close to filling the Boldin possession role.

 

Thompson's recent kick returns indicate he needs to be our kick returner.  He can be spelled or covered in that role by Jacoby Jones, who is way to valuable to consider parting ways with.

 

Campanaro has shown sparks as well.

 

Steve Smith looks expendable.

 

As do Butler and Aiken who are my picks to be released.

[jazz1988]

Haven't seen enough from Steve Smith yet to believe he can come remotely close to filling the Boldin possession role.

 

Thompson's recent kick returns indicate he needs to be our kick returner.  He can be spelled or covered in that role by Jacoby Jones, who is way to valuable to consider parting ways with.

 

Campanaro has shown sparks as well.

 

Steve Smith looks expendable.

 

As do Butler and Aiken who are my picks to be released.

 

I don't think Smith is going to show he's able to fill Boldin Possession role in preseason. Boldin him self usually had a pretty quiet preseason when he was here .

[Ravensfan23]

So going back and re-watching the game. I don't feel as bad about the defense as I did before. I still feel the same in terms of what the issue is, but I don't feel as bad about what the defense will look like this season.

 

First and foremost to state the obvious, we need Jimmy, Webb and Asa on the field. The only reason Chykie will make the team is because of the injuries we've had. If all 3 of those guys stayed healthy this preseason, there is no way Chykie makes this year. The guy isn't playing well. I don't care if it's against starting caliber WRs or backups. I haven't actually gone back to watch him solely, but I counted roughly 7 times he was beat off the LOS in press coverage without even getting a finger on his man. Even though he got beat by Dez, Franks played much better and with a lot more confidence imo.

 

Back to the defense as a whole, we just aren't comfortable within the defense yet. D. Smith and Mosley aren't comfortable with each other yet, there was one play(run play) where Upshaw and Suggs was confused as to who should be on what side and ended up lining up on the same side of the field. Of course the Cowboys ran right to the side where no OLB was and gained 5 yards. None of the secondary looks comfortable within what they are supposed to do, which makes sense seeing as though our top 3 CBs are down.

 

Also it just looks like guys are working on individual techniques right now and not really playing within the defense. There were times when Ngata would either jack his man up or bust through the LOS but then not make much effort to make the tackle. I want to say Suggs has to be in a mode of, this doesn't count so let me get my work and get out, because I can't believe a guy of his stature has regressed to the point where he no longer knows how to keep contain. The long pass to Dez on 2nd and 19 was a result of Suggs not playing his assignment. He seems more like you'd expect Mcphee or Simon to be. Not a leader of the defense.

 

Those of us saying Pees is too conservative, it's just not true. He was as aggressive, and complex as you can be in a preseason game, the players just didn't execute. On the 2nd drive of the game, the defense had a chance to get off the field on 3rd and 5. Pees called a great play imo, blitzing CJ and Stewart from the strong side, dropping D. Smith from across the weak side to take away the hot(TE). Brooks lined up in the slot and showed a bail tech, but Doom actually dropped to cover the slot, while Elam rotated over the top of the strong side and Brooks become the Safety on the backside. Of course on the far side of the field Franks played off man because that's the longest throw for the QB. Perfect call, great execution by all except for one player...Chykie Brown. He game Dez way to much space on 3rd and 5 and even though Stewart had a free run to the QB, it was basically an easy pitch and catch for Romo. Yes it's Dez and you have to respect him, but you also have help over the top to cover you on any double moves or deep routes. When your team is blitzing on 3rd and medium to long, you can't play soft coverage. It's defeats the point of getting quick pressure. If Romo was forced to hold the ball a split second longer, Stewart is in his face for either a sack or throw away. That's he different between getting your offense back on the field or keeping your defense out their for another 3+ minutes.

 

This happened far to often which leads me to believe that we either don't have the right players(don't believe that) or those guys just aren't confident in what they are being asked to do right now. We aren't getting physically outplayed right now which is good in a sense, our guys just aren't doing what they are capable of. Hopefully the intensity shows up in the Redskin game and definitely opening day.

[Ravensfan23]

Our 2nd team offense performed much better this game.

 

As a guy who's been very tough on Tyrod, I was very impressed with his development as a pocket passer. The oline gave him time and he used it wisely. I only gave him a negative grade on 3 plays. Missed Aiken TD, over throw of DT and missed Overbay on a cross when he decided to run. Good game by TT.

 

The oline as a whole played much better but to single out a couple of guys, I thought Hurst, Urschel and Gino. Those guys were pretty bad last week, but all had really good games this week. Did they have bad moments? yes but overall strong games. Both Urschel and Gino where surprisingly good with power blocking which both have struggled with at times. Their pass pro was much better.

 

If O.D is healthy enough or decides to retire, I'm more then confident in the duo of Juice and Gilmore to fill the void. In fact I think we might be better off just going that route anyway. Gilmore is very physical in the run game and showed well on the TE screen he was given. O.D isn't a lost at all imo, but still hope he can contribute.

 

Despite limited chances in the passing game, I was impressed with both Brown and Aiken. Very very good to see Brown bounce back from a tough week of practice and no catches in game 1. Both guys ran strong routes and were very active with in the run game.

 

Wenning had a bad game but to no fault of his own. I've heard people say he's not ready, based off what. The play well for what he was given. There isn't a single 3rd team olineman that will make this team, including Jensen imo. As much as people hate A.Q, i'll take him in a heartbeat over Jensen right now. I know he had a injury in practice a week or so ago, so maybe he's a IR candidate. Hurst and Graham are PS guys especially with 10 spots.

[GrimCoconut]

Those of us saying Pees is too conservative, it's just not true. He was as aggressive, and complex as you can be in a preseason game, the players just didn't execute. On the 2nd drive of the game, the defense had a chance to get off the field on 3rd and 5. Pees called a great play imo, blitzing CJ and Stewart from the strong side, dropping D. Smith from across the weak side to take away the hot(TE). Brooks lined up in the slot and showed a bail tech, but Doom actually dropped to cover the slot, while Elam rotated over the top of the strong side and Brooks become the Safety on the backside. Of course on the far side of the field Franks played off man because that's the longest throw for the QB. Perfect call, great execution by all except for one player...Chykie Brown. He game Dez way to much space on 3rd and 5 and even though Stewart had a free run to the QB, it was basically an easy pitch and catch for Romo. Yes it's Dez and you have to respect him, but you also have help over the top to cover you on any double moves or deep routes. When your team is blitzing on 3rd and medium to long, you can't play soft coverage. It's defeats the point of getting quick pressure. If Romo was forced to hold the ball a split second longer, Stewart is in his face for either a sack or throw away. That's he different between getting your offense back on the field or keeping your defense out their for another 3+ minutes.

This happened far to often which leads me to believe that we either don't have the right players(don't believe that) or those guys just aren't confident in what they are being asked to do right now. We aren't getting physically outplayed right now which is good in a sense, our guys just aren't doing what they are capable of. Hopefully the intensity shows up in the Redskin game and definitely opening day.

For the sake of brevity I cut down your post to emphasize something. I absolutely agree if we're thinking the same thing and I feel we are. It sounds like you're saying that Pees isn't the problem but the players aren't buying into everything he's doing and that is the problem. If that's a correct assessment then we definitely agree on that. I don't think Pees is bad but if he's not connecting with the players in that regard then we need someone who will.

[Ravensfan23]

For the sake of brevity I cut down your post to emphasize something. I absolutely agree if we're thinking the same thing and I feel we are. It sounds like you're saying that Pees isn't the problem but the players aren't buying into everything he's doing and that is the problem. If that's a correct assessment then we definitely agree on that. I don't think Pees is bad but if he's not connecting with the players in that regard then we need someone who will.

Didn't realize my post was that long lol. But yes we are on the same page. I think Pees would be a really good DC for a team like the Broncos who put up crazy offensive number and can afford the bend but don't break defense. That's not who we are and he's not a throw caution to the wind type DC.

So he's stepping out of his comfort zone and blitzing more while mixing coverage, it just seems like there is no confidence on either end, the play calls nor execution. But I think much like Caldwell, he's doing the best he can with a system that's not his and he's not 100% comfortable in. Jmo

[GrimCoconut]

Didn't realize my post was that long lol. But yes we are on the same page. I think Pees would be a really good DC for a team like the Broncos who put up crazy offensive number and can afford the bend but don't break defense. That's not who we are and he's not a throw caution to the wind type DC.

So he's stepping out of his comfort zone and blitzing more while mixing coverage, it just seems like there is no confidence on either end, the play calls nor execution. But I think much like Caldwell, he's doing the best he can with a system that's not his and he's not 100% comfortable in. Jmo

Not long by my standards but it would be problematic to quote all of it lol.

I agree. I actually think Pees is a good coordinator and he's shown to be capable of shutting down very good QBs. The problem is I just don't see the players consistently buying into what he's selling and that's problematic. I really do think he's done here after this year if the defense doesn't place at least top 10.

[Ravensfan23]

Not long by my standards but it would be problematic to quote all of it lol.

I agree. I actually think Pees is a good coordinator and he's shown to be capable of shutting down very good QBs. The problem is I just don't see the players consistently buying into what he's selling and that's problematic. I really do think he's done here after this year if the defense doesn't place at least top 10.

Yea, I actually think Pees may have an even shorter leash this year. If the defense doesn't start fast, we might see a in season replacement like with Cam. Harbs has already said they want the defense more aggressive this year and back to being those bullies. The talent is there but there seems to be a disconnect. I wonder how much of the defense is actually built by Pees and/or how much input he gets from others like CB, Spagz and Wink?

I think we had the most success on defense when we had guys running their systems. I'm not sure Pees is doing so

[DomMcRaven]

So going back and re-watching the game. I don't feel as bad about the defense as I did before. I still feel the same in terms of what the issue is, but I don't feel as bad about what the defense will look like this season.

 

First and foremost to state the obvious, we need Jimmy, Webb and Asa on the field. The only reason Chykie will make the team is because of the injuries we've had. If all 3 of those guys stayed healthy this preseason, there is no way Chykie makes this year. The guy isn't playing well. I don't care if it's against starting caliber WRs or backups. I haven't actually gone back to watch him solely, but I counted roughly 7 times he was beat off the LOS in press coverage without even getting a finger on his man. Even though he got beat by Dez, Franks played much better and with a lot more confidence imo.

 

Back to the defense as a whole, we just aren't comfortable within the defense yet. D. Smith and Mosley aren't comfortable with each other yet, there was one play(run play) where Upshaw and Suggs was confused as to who should be on what side and ended up lining up on the same side of the field. Of course the Cowboys ran right to the side where no OLB was and gained 5 yards. None of the secondary looks comfortable within what they are supposed to do, which makes sense seeing as though our top 3 CBs are down.

 

Also it just looks like guys are working on individual techniques right now and not really playing within the defense. There were times when Ngata would either jack his man up or bust through the LOS but then not make much effort to make the tackle. I want to say Suggs has to be in a mode of, this doesn't count so let me get my work and get out, because I can't believe a guy of his stature has regressed to the point where he no longer knows how to keep contain. The long pass to Dez on 2nd and 19 was a result of Suggs not playing his assignment. He seems more like you'd expect Mcphee or Simon to be. Not a leader of the defense.

 

Those of us saying Pees is too conservative, it's just not true. He was as aggressive, and complex as you can be in a preseason game, the players just didn't execute. On the 2nd drive of the game, the defense had a chance to get off the field on 3rd and 5. Pees called a great play imo, blitzing CJ and Stewart from the strong side, dropping D. Smith from across the weak side to take away the hot(TE). Brooks lined up in the slot and showed a bail tech, but Doom actually dropped to cover the slot, while Elam rotated over the top of the strong side and Brooks become the Safety on the backside. Of course on the far side of the field Franks played off man because that's the longest throw for the QB. Perfect call, great execution by all except for one player...Chykie Brown. He game Dez way to much space on 3rd and 5 and even though Stewart had a free run to the QB, it was basically an easy pitch and catch for Romo. Yes it's Dez and you have to respect him, but you also have help over the top to cover you on any double moves or deep routes. When your team is blitzing on 3rd and medium to long, you can't play soft coverage. It's defeats the point of getting quick pressure. If Romo was forced to hold the ball a split second longer, Stewart is in his face for either a sack or throw away. That's he different between getting your offense back on the field or keeping your defense out their for another 3+ minutes.

 

This happened far to often which leads me to believe that we either don't have the right players(don't believe that) or those guys just aren't confident in what they are being asked to do right now. We aren't getting physically outplayed right now which is good in a sense, our guys just aren't doing what they are capable of. Hopefully the intensity shows up in the Redskin game and definitely opening day.

While I don't like to blame the refs if we lose, let's also keep in mind that the refs have been calling a lot more unnecessary penalties that resulted in (say it with me now) automatic first-down.

[Ravensfan23]

While I don't like to blame the refs if we lose, let's also keep in mind that the refs have been calling a lot more unnecessary penalties that resulted in (say it with me now) automatic first-down.

 

Yea no doubt but the calls have nothing to do with the effort of a play. Suggs not keeping contain isn't a result of staying on the field after a poor call. Right now Chykie just isn't playing with a lot of confidence. Even the good play he made was a result of a poor throw by the QB. Better throw and he's toast, that's wasn't a result of the refs. I get what you are saying and that's actually one of the reasons I'm not overly concerned after re-watching both games.

 

Overall I though the defense was in good position in most cases. We didn't do much slanting, twisting, stunts  or anything like that so it wasn't really a good read. Also we have to understand that these guys often use preseason to work on "in game" things they wouldn't dare try in a regular season game. As I mentioned before, I have to think Suggs is working on his inside rush technique because there are far too many plays were it just makes no sense for him to try and get inside but he does and ends up losing contain.

[The Raven]

[Long Post]

 

Agree completely, and I think you're on to something with the players not buying in. I'm not sure what it is they don't like though. Pees plays a very multiple, flexible defense with a million different looks. He calls off man, press man, zone, zone blitz, man blitz, etc... He does a little bit of everything in the defense. Unless that's why the players don't buy in. Maybe they want a simpler scheme.

 

I know Pees and players say that his scheme is pretty complex, and I wonder now if it's too complex. Maybe the players are thinking too much and not playing enough. Flacco said Caldwell's scheme made him think more than play, and that hindered his performance. I think we're seeing the same effect with Pees. 

[Ravensfan23]

Agree completely, and I think you're on to something with the players not buying in. I'm not sure what it is they don't like though. Pees plays a very multiple, flexible defense with a million different looks. He calls off man, press man, zone, zone blitz, man blitz, etc... He does a little bit of everything in the defense. Unless that's why the players don't buy in. Maybe they want a simpler scheme.

 

I know Pees and players say that his scheme is pretty complex, and I wonder now if it's too complex. Maybe the players are thinking too much and not playing enough. Flacco said Caldwell's scheme made him think more than play, and that hindered his performance. I think we're seeing the same effect with Pees. 

 

Suggs mentioned something to start camp that really got me thinking about this notion of the guys not buying he. He said something to the tone of needing to get back to what the Ravens do best. Not trying to outsmart offenses and counter what they are doing so much. Force people to stop us. Not his exact words but what I read into that was that we just aren't imposing our will on teams anymore. Harbs also said we need to get back to being aggressive again.

 

Pees is conservatively aggressive if that makes sense. He'll blitz and have multiple defenses but it still seems too soft at times. Now a lot of that is players too. But I agree with the overthinking part. There has been plenty of players who say Pees is a great teacher and explains things for guys well. In most cases guys who are great teachers, usually are better position coaches then coordinators.

[dhstandard]

Agree completely, and I think you're on to something with the players not buying in. I'm not sure what it is they don't like though. Pees plays a very multiple, flexible defense with a million different looks. He calls off man, press man, zone, zone blitz, man blitz, etc... He does a little bit of everything in the defense. Unless that's why the players don't buy in. Maybe they want a simpler scheme.

 

I know Pees and players say that his scheme is pretty complex, and I wonder now if it's too complex. Maybe the players are thinking too much and not playing enough. Flacco said Caldwell's scheme made him think more than play, and that hindered his performance. I think we're seeing the same effect with Pees. 

 

Too complex would be the players fault, not Pees.  I doubt that anyway.  If there is one thing I learned from playing sports, it's that taking the time to learn really pays off.  This is only his third season and our defense has had a lot of turnover when it comes to players and coaches.

 

One big thing to remember is that we have a lot of young guys so yes, there will be confusion.  It's not like before where we had tons of vets out there to guide everyone.  I think once they get comfortable with Pees it will really pay off.  I doubt he goes anywhere in the next few years.  If the scheme is too simplistic we will get picked apart by offenses.