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JoeyFlex5

terrence brooks

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im not sold on darian stewart, and with will hill missing 6 weeks he could be light years behind and nowhere near midseason form, so if darian stewart runs with the 1s tonight, and stays with the 1s, and fails to impress, would it be a mistake to have him out there and having the player who is widely regarded as the future FS missing valuable reps against a first string offense? its not like this game matters, and against tony romo and co. it could be a great learning experience for him to throw him into the fire and see how he responds. 

 

i think it is best to do it now, instead of putting all oureggs in the darian stewart basket and hoping we dont have another michael huff situation come regular season, because this time we really may not have someone on the bench to come in and play FS if stewart doesnt work out, but if brooks gets the proper amount of preseason reps with/against the 1s, it may be a different story. 

 

playing time with the projected starting lineup against other projected starting lineups, is the closest thing to a sure fire way to get rookies ahead in the learning curve, and if we need a FS to step in for stewart because he isnt cutting it, brooks wouldnt be able to as he was running against backups and not really getting a chance to better himself and prepare for the mental aspect of the game.

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its really hard for a rookie safety to be a starter in the NFL. you gotta learn the playbook and everything. stewart will get the start until Hill will be ready and Hill is too good to not be ready mid season.

 

That gives Brooks a year to develop. I really like his upside but right now hes thinking too much on the field. He'll probably play some nickle tonight that should help him acclimate to the NFL speed

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I think it's far more likely we see Brooks in as a cornerback than as a safety. He's going to play a lot this year in some capacity, but I believe it comes at cornerback

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Brooks still has some learning to do.  There's a reason he's largely been on the 3rd team throughout camp and just recently moved up to get some 2nd team reps.  This is talking about him at S only, not CB.  If Brooks was a realistic option to be our starting FS from week 1, Stewart wouldn't be the guy continually getting reps there.

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At this point it looks like Stewart will be the week 1 starter.  That doesn't rule out Brooks winning the job mid-season though.  He could also be used as a slot CB at the start of the year, which could be a good move if the CBs other than Webb and Smith struggle.

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Brooks has 3 more weeks of TC & coaches have been moving him into more demanding assignments (nickel/dime packages) with the 2s & 1s. He'll see the field plenty in the coming wks//mos. No need to throw him into the fire prematurely. IMO the coaches are bring him along just fine; he's earning his way up the depth chart.

Go Ravens

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Brooks still has some learning to do.  There's a reason he's largely been on the 3rd team throughout camp and just recently moved up to get some 2nd team reps.  This is talking about him at S only, not CB.  If Brooks was a realistic option to be our starting FS from week 1, Stewart wouldn't be the guy continually getting reps there.

 

Not really true. Brook only spent 1 week with the 3rd team, not a large portion of camp. Since about half way through the 2nd week of Camp he has been running with the 2nd team defense. When I went out to camp two weeks ago he was running with the 2nd team and because we rotate so much actually played with some of the first team guys. From what I hear he's moved pasted Levine and Miles, not just as a Nickle Back, but as a S as well.

 

Imo the biggest thing that sets Stewart apart is his familiarity with the NFL, Brooks just isn't as familiar with the speed of the game right now. Much like Huff and Elam last year, Stewart isn't a lock to be the guy. Brooks has the talent and skill set to raise his level to the guys he's playing against and around. I feel if he's exposed to 1st team reps, he won't fall back down imo. But of course we'll see.

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Not really true. Brook only spent 1 week with the 3rd team, not a large portion of camp. Since about half way through the 2nd week of Camp he has been running with the 2nd team defense. When I went out to camp two weeks ago he was running with the 2nd team and because we rotate so much actually played with some of the first team guys. From what I hear he's moved pasted Levine and Miles, not just as a Nickle Back, but as a S as well.

 

Imo the biggest thing that sets Stewart apart is his familiarity with the NFL, Brooks just isn't as familiar with the speed of the game right now. Much like Huff and Elam last year, Stewart isn't a lock to be the guy. Brooks has the talent and skill set to raise his level to the guys he's playing against and around. I feel if he's exposed to 1st team reps, he won't fall back down imo. But of course we'll see.

huff didnt have a learning curve like elam did, he is a longtime vet who was just really, really bad when he came to baltimore for some reason. and i agree with what you said about brooks, he may not be ready now, but thats why he needs those reps, because with enough exposure to playing against starters could get him enough familiarity to bypass stewart, he simply is more talented than stewart and the only thing holding him back is those valuable reps, something stewart doesnt need because he is a veteran with plenty of experience, throw brooks out there with the 1s for tonight and the 3rd preseason game, by the end of preseason week 3 we should have seen plenty and the team should know at that point whether he is ready to play or not, and if he isnt ready, put stewart in there, he knows the speed of the game and reps are simply not as important to him.

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Not really true. Brook only spent 1 week with the 3rd team, not a large portion of camp. Since about half way through the 2nd week of Camp he has been running with the 2nd team defense. When I went out to camp two weeks ago he was running with the 2nd team and because we rotate so much actually played with some of the first team guys. From what I hear he's moved pasted Levine and Miles, not just as a Nickle Back, but as a S as well.

 

Imo the biggest thing that sets Stewart apart is his familiarity with the NFL, Brooks just isn't as familiar with the speed of the game right now. Much like Huff and Elam last year, Stewart isn't a lock to be the guy. Brooks has the talent and skill set to raise his level to the guys he's playing against and around. I feel if he's exposed to 1st team reps, he won't fall back down imo. But of course we'll see.

 

See, I've heard otherwise.  I guess you can never trust reports.  From what I've seen/heard, Elam, Stewart, and Miles have been the top 3 all camp and that hasn't really changed.

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huff didnt have a learning curve like elam did, he is a longtime vet who was just really, really bad when he came to baltimore for some reason. and i agree with what you said about brooks, he may not be ready now, but thats why he needs those reps, because with enough exposure to playing against starters could get him enough familiarity to bypass stewart, he simply is more talented than stewart and the only thing holding him back is those valuable reps, something stewart doesnt need because he is a veteran with plenty of experience, throw brooks out there with the 1s for tonight and the 3rd preseason game, by the end of preseason week 3 we should have seen plenty and the team should know at that point whether he is ready to play or not, and if he isnt ready, put stewart in there, he knows the speed of the game and reps are simply not as important to him.

 

I wasn't comparing Huff to Elam, I was more so comparing the situation with Huff getting the early start over Elam to Stewart getting the early start over Brooks.

 

Much like Huff I don't see Stewart as a difference maker, solid player, but not someone that will keep Brooks off the field long and if he doesn't perform well early might have a short rope like Huff did.

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See, I've heard otherwise.  I guess you can never trust reports.  From what I've seen/heard, Elam, Stewart, and Miles have been the top 3 all camp and that hasn't really changed.

 

And I think they have continued to be the top 3, but they have all rotated a lot and Brooks starting around week 2 of camp joined that rotation with them, rather then being with Omar, Levine, and others. Actually when I was at practice, Aug 3rd. Brooks was called over from the 3rd 4th string guys by, Spagz I believe, and given reps with the 2nd group. During that practice Elam, Stewart and Trawick all ran with the first group, with many 3 safety sets while Brooks, Miles and Trawick ran with the 2nd group mostly. So you could clearly see them wanting to rotate the Safeties, but only the coaches know the reasoning behind it.  

 

Now this was only one day and I'm not there nearly as much as those guys given reports, but from what I've heard since his early struggles of picking up the Defense, Brooks has steadily been climbing up the competition and was actually getting first team reps a couple days before the 1st game, although it wasn't reported until the 49ers joint practices.

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I doubt Brooks sees any decent time at FS, especially with Will Hill hiding on the depth chart , but he is 100% in #3 corner conversation. His build suits a slot CB.

He isn't ready to play FS but he could hold his own in man on man.

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The Ravens defense is complicated and they'll carry more safeties going forward.  They've bought into the "big-nickel" trend that's been forming up in the NFL and have been since Bernard Pollard left.  

 

Brook's drafting is an extenuation of that.  Like Elam and Stewart, he's played many positions (if not all) in the secondary making them very versatile.  Now with the injuries and uncertainty with the corners, seeing 3 safeties on the field in obvious passing downs will be especially useful.

 

The Ravens have always valued versatility.  The safety position is difficult under normal circumstances.  The complex packages that they (and a few other teams) are using now adds to the difficulty of a rookie's learning curve.

 

I see Brooks being a role player at first until he gets enough game experience.  Hopefully he picks it up.  I've read that he has a very high football IQ and that's what Ozzie and Pees need now.  Hill is an interesting prospect, but by week 7 I think Brooks could end up sealing the starting job if he progresses.  Otherwise, I'm pretty confident in the Elam/Hill combo.

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Something that I think you have to account for is how difficult it is for a rookie FS to learn all the calls and adjustments based on how the offense lines up in such a short amount of time. Plus the added complexity of it being in a new defense which is the most intricate that they've ever had to learn. It's exactly why the majority of FS's that start right out of the gate are usually special talents likely taken in the 1st round.

 

Stewart may not be setting the world on fire with his play in preseason so far but I think the coaches are very comfortable with his grasp of the playbook, knowing the proper calls and where to line up based on offensive formation, knowing not just his own but everyone else's assignments. As talented as Brooks is he's obviously a lot further behind than Stewart with the stuff that I mentioned and that's to be expected of a rookie.. But it's for that reason that the coaching staff is bracing for Stewart to play a lot of snaps early this season and they want him to get his reps in. Brooks is the more talented of the two but knowing the defense thoroughly comes first and once Brooks get's there mentally the coaches will turn him loose.

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I think if the coaches felt Brooks was capable of starting the season at free safety they'd give him more reps with the first team. Clearly in spite of the first team's struggles that hasn't been the case - and we aren't a team that shields rookies from taking those reps if we think they can step in early on in the season.  So I take it as meaning, Stewart or no Stewart, Brooks just isn't being deemed ready to start by the coaches, and thus won't see first team reps.

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I think it's for for Brooks to play CB this year over FS. First of all we may need him there more than at FS. Second of all with injuries to our CB group and on top of it if he proves to be effective there we could leave him there and draft another FS next year, such as Drummond. FS is a position now where a lot of the best ones are truly going high in the draft. Having that flexibility is nice.

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I think it's for for Brooks to play CB this year over FS. First of all we may need him there more than at FS. Second of all with injuries to our CB group and on top of it if he proves to be effective there we could leave him there and draft another FS next year, such as Drummond. FS is a position now where a lot of the best ones are truly going high in the draft. Having that flexibility is nice.

We also have Webb who could go back at FS. That would preserve him and make our defense a little more dangerous. That's if Brooks can handle CB. Jimmy and Asa also with Webb and Elam back there could turn our secondary question marks into strengths. With Asa out there brooks may have to slide to the outside in my theory. We'll have to see if that's an option over this upcoming season.

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Brooks isn't going to start right away.  He's raw and needs to grow.  He didn't look good against the Cowboys getting burnt a few times.  He's a rookie so you let it go because he isn't going to start

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Brooks isn't going to start right away.  He's raw and needs to grow.  He didn't look good against the Cowboys getting burnt a few times.  He's a rookie so you let it go because he isn't going to start

 

Didn't look good how? I just watched every snap of Brooks from the Cowboys game and came away with a plus grade for him. Did he have a few areas to improve? Of course he's a rookie, who was basically playing a new position on a weeks worth of practice. Yes Brook played CB before, but for the last 2+ years he's been focused on making the position switch to Safety, so I don't think he can be expected to be 100% confident in his technique as a CB right now.

 

However he had a really good game in the slot. My biggest issue with Brooks was not being strong enough to the inside. He allowed guys to beat him inside a couple times, but other then that I didn't have much concern from Brooks in the slot or at FS. I didn't see one single time when Brooks got burnt. Did he allow a catch? yes but he didn't get burnt, he just played like he didn't have 100% confidence in his technique which again can be expected in his first game back at CB.

 

Brooks might not start, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see he and Asa rotate at that #3 CB spot, which the Ravens going 3 Safeties a lot. Stewart seems to be much more comfortable in the box imo and the Ravens seem to like him there as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see Brook take over at FS within the first 5 weeks of the season.

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Didn't look good how? I just watched every snap of Brooks from the Cowboys game and came away with a plus grade for him. Did he have a few areas to improve? Of course he's a rookie, who was basically playing a new position on a weeks worth of practice. Yes Brook played CB before, but for the last 2+ years he's been focused on making the position switch to Safety, so I don't think he can be expected to be 100% confident in his technique as a CB right now.

 

However he had a really good game in the slot. My biggest issue with Brooks was not being strong enough to the inside. He allowed guys to beat him inside a couple times, but other then that I didn't have much concern from Brooks in the slot or at FS. I didn't see one single time when Brooks got burnt. Did he allow a catch? yes but he didn't get burnt, he just played like he didn't have 100% confidence in his technique which again can be expected in his first game back at CB.

 

Brooks might not start, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see he and Asa rotate at that #3 CB spot, which the Ravens going 3 Safeties a lot. Stewart seems to be much more comfortable in the box imo and the Ravens seem to like him there as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see Brook take over at FS within the first 5 weeks of the season.

 

I doubt that. When Hill is back I'm pretty sure he's the starter. He's a really really good safety

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I doubt that. When Hill is back I'm pretty sure he's the starter. He's a really really good safety

 

I don't doubt Will Hill is a good Safety but everyone is acting as if he's some type of all pro or stud at FS. He's a solid player that was the only true NFL FS we had in Camp. Right now Will Hill is barely running with the 3rd team at FS and he's not allowed to practice at all while suspended and you expect him just to show up and start after he's able to return?

 

Again no knock to Will, because he's definitely better then Brooks right now, but it'll still take him time to get back into the swing of things. He's not allowed to practice or be at the facility while suspended for 6 weeks, then once he does come back, Pees and Spagz will have to re-evaluate how to fit him into this defense. He'll have to not only get comfortable with his teammate, but he'll have to be accustom to the communication on the back end. Once he's able to return after 6 weeks, he's gonna need to get back into game shape as well. I could see the Ravens rotating him in at FS, but I don't expect him to see major time until about week 10 vs Titans. You're not gonna throw him out their his first week back against the Falcons, then you follow that up with back to back divisional games, and I doubt the Ravens look to shake things up before either of those games, unless things are going bad.  

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Has Will Hill played yet?

For us that is....

I dont think I have seen him on the field.

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Has Will Hill played yet?

For us that is....

I dont think I have seen him on the field.

He got a few late game snaps vs Dallas. I honestly can't see him playing much if at all Saturday. I get the feeling people view Hill as some type of ace in the hole when he returns. He more of an insurance policy should things not work out the way the Ravens have planned.

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I don't doubt Will Hill is a good Safety but everyone is acting as if he's some type of all pro or stud at FS. He's a solid player that was the only true NFL FS we had in Camp. Right now Will Hill is barely running with the 3rd team at FS and he's not allowed to practice at all while suspended and you expect him just to show up and start after he's able to return?

 

Again no knock to Will, because he's definitely better then Brooks right now, but it'll still take him time to get back into the swing of things. He's not allowed to practice or be at the facility while suspended for 6 weeks, then once he does come back, Pees and Spagz will have to re-evaluate how to fit him into this defense. He'll have to not only get comfortable with his teammate, but he'll have to be accustom to the communication on the back end. Once he's able to return after 6 weeks, he's gonna need to get back into game shape as well. I could see the Ravens rotating him in at FS, but I don't expect him to see major time until about week 10 vs Titans. You're not gonna throw him out their his first week back against the Falcons, then you follow that up with back to back divisional games, and I doubt the Ravens look to shake things up before either of those games, unless things are going bad.  

 

I'm not saying he'll be starting FS week 7 but I'm pretty sure he's the answer late in the season/playoffs. Last season he was the best FS according to PFF. He's rangy, big, tackles well and knows NFL defenses. I think Brooks will get more and more time as the year goes on and next season will fight for a starting job but I really doubt he'll be starter this season. I think its Stewart job to lose when Hill is back from his suspension. From what I've heard, Pees is really high on Hill as well. Maybe they arent playing him in preseason because he won't count on the 53 roster and they wanna test their bubble players. Pees also said the DBs will be tested A LOT against Washington. That means he'll call schemes to put DBs 1 on 1 and test them. I won't be surprise the defense will allow a few big plays because the DC will be testing them. So far I've really like Brooks coverage he's just too hesitant but hes got all the skills hes pretty good in man to man.

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I'm not saying he'll be starting FS week 7 but I'm pretty sure he's the answer late in the season/playoffs. Last season he was the best FS according to PFF. He's rangy, big, tackles well and knows NFL defenses. I think Brooks will get more and more time as the year goes on and next season will fight for a starting job but I really doubt he'll be starter this season. I think its Stewart job to lose when Hill is back from his suspension. From what I've heard, Pees is really high on Hill as well. Maybe they arent playing him in preseason because he won't count on the 53 roster and they wanna test their bubble players. Pees also said the DBs will be tested A LOT against Washington. That means he'll call schemes to put DBs 1 on 1 and test them. I won't be surprise the defense will allow a few big plays because the DC will be testing them. So far I've really like Brooks coverage he's just too hesitant but hes got all the skills hes pretty good in man to man.

Huff, experience wise, was a much better FS then Elam last year. It took one game for the coaches to pull him. So while I agree Brooks is a bit hesitant right now, if that light clicks on for him sooner rather than later, I can't see the coaches holding him back. It's been a small sample size, but I'm much more impressed with Stewart in the box then back deep. If over the next few weeks things start to click for Brooks, I can't see him not starting to phase Stewart out, I think Stewart is just keeping the seat warm moreso it being his job to lose. But Brooks has to earn it.

Again all that is true with Hill, but that still makes him more of an insurance policy then anything. If and it is a strong if, Brooks has that light come on and those " almost plays" he has because of his hesitation turns into"plays made" he'll become the starting FS and I don't see the coaches demoting him just because Hill returns. If anything they'll just find a way to incorporate Hill into what's already happening. But I don't think any of the coaches are thinking, yeah Will Hill is our starter, we're just waiting for him to return.

If that were the case, Will Hill would would at least be seeing quality reps with the starters or at least that 2nd group that rotates in. Remember last season, Asa Jackson still got quality reps in the preseason despite the fact he was going to miss the same amount of games Hill will. Again I agree that it won't be until late season and hopefully playoffs that we see Hill play a lot, but I feel he's here for insurance against Brooks and Stewart not being able to hold down the position. If neither one of those guys prove capable then you have one hellava option in Hill.

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Huff, experience wise, was a much better FS then Elam last year. It took one game for the coaches to pull him. So while I agree Brooks is a bit hesitant right now, if that light clicks on for him sooner rather than later, I can't see the coaches holding him back. It's been a small sample size, but I'm much more impressed with Stewart in the box then back deep. If over the next few weeks things start to click for Brooks, I can't see him not starting to phase Stewart out, I think Stewart is just keeping the seat warm moreso it being his job to lose. But Brooks has to earn it.

Again all that is true with Hill, but that still makes him more of an insurance policy then anything. If and it is a strong if, Brooks has that light come on and those " almost plays" he has because of his hesitation turns into"plays made" he'll become the starting FS and I don't see the coaches demoting him just because Hill returns. If anything they'll just find a way to incorporate Hill into what's already happening. But I don't think any of the coaches are thinking, yeah Will Hill is our starter, we're just waiting for him to return.

If that were the case, Will Hill would would at least be seeing quality reps with the starters or at least that 2nd group that rotates in. Remember last season, Asa Jackson still got quality reps in the preseason despite the fact he was going to miss the same amount of games Hill will. Again I agree that it won't be until late season and hopefully playoffs that we see Hill play a lot, but I feel he's here for insurance against Brooks and Stewart not being able to hold down the position. If neither one of those guys prove capable then you have one hellava option in Hill.

I tend to agree. Will Hill was just a case of the Ravens being opportunistic. We picked up a player with tons of potential for very little risk - and who will not take up a roster spot. No question he has a huge upside (A Giants Article back in January):

 

The star of the team according to Pro Football Focus was undoubtedly Will Hill, who's +15.7 not only is tops on the team as whole, but ranks second in the entire league for safeties. Opposing quarterbacks only had a 62.0 rating throwing at him as he allowed only 186 yards in coverage. He hit hard and he hit often. He was not a liability in any way shape or form, whether it be covering the deep ball, playing shallow rover, or while in run defense. A true star in the making. For comparison, the best grade Kenny Phillips ever got in a single season was +13.6 in 2011.

 

Missing just four tackles and getting beat for one touchdown, Hill didn't make the kind of highlight-reel plays that will wow Pro Bowl voters, but his consistency and lack of mistakes were that of a player maturing on the field.

 

Now he has a pretty small sample size to his name (12 games last year), but still has some really good potential. If I were to guess, I think we merely got Will Hill on the team to keep a golden opportunity under our control for this year, and re-evaluate his contribution next year. I am not sure he will see the field this year. I think Stewart, Brooks & Elam are the safety options for 2014. Stewart is a stop gap for this year. If Elam and/or Brooks do not show signs of a future I think we keep Will Hill next year to compete for either job - then we have Elam, Brooks and Will Hill next year. If Elam and Brooks play well, we will probably offer Will Hill a small, minimal risk contract, but will not fight too hard to retain him next year.

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I tend to agree. Will Hill was just a case of the Ravens being opportunistic. We picked up a player with tons of potential for very little risk - and who will not take up a roster spot. No question he has a huge upside (A Giants Article back in January):

The star of the team according to Pro Football Focus was undoubtedly Will Hill, who's +15.7 not only is tops on the team as whole, but ranks second in the entire league for safeties. Opposing quarterbacks only had a 62.0 rating throwing at him as he allowed only 186 yards in coverage. He hit hard and he hit often. He was not a liability in any way shape or form, whether it be covering the deep ball, playing shallow rover, or while in run defense. A true star in the making. For comparison, the best grade Kenny Phillips ever got in a single season was +13.6 in 2011.

Missing just four tackles and getting beat for one touchdown, Hill didn't make the kind of highlight-reel plays that will wow Pro Bowl voters, but his consistency and lack of mistakes were that of a player maturing on the field.

Now he has a pretty small sample size to his name (12 games last year), but still has some really good potential. If I were to guess, I think we merely got Will Hill on the team to keep a golden opportunity under our control for this year, and re-evaluate his contribution next year. I am not sure he will see the field this year. I think Stewart, Brooks & Elam are the safety options for 2014. Stewart is a stop gap for this year. If Elam and/or Brooks do not show signs of a future I think we keep Will Hill next year to compete for either job - then we have Elam, Brooks and Will Hill next year. If Elam and Brooks play well, we will probably offer Will Hill a small, minimal risk contract, but will not fight too hard to retain him next year.

With the way the NFL is going now, I wouldn't be surprised if the Ravens employed more 3 Safety sets to help counter the run and athletic TEs. I could see both Brooks and Hill as those interchangeable Safeties with Elam being liked a Rover. So all three could be in future plans should things work out. All 3 guys are good blitzers, good enough in coverage and can tackle well. Add those 3 guys with Mosley and Brown, that's a lot of fast and physical talent in the middle of the defense.
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With the way the NFL is going now, I wouldn't be surprised if the Ravens employed more 3 Safety sets to help counter the run and athletic TEs. I could see both Brooks and Hill as those interchangeable Safeties with Elam being liked a Rover. So all three could be in future plans should things work out. All 3 guys are good blitzers, good enough in coverage and can tackle well. Add those 3 guys with Mosley and Brown, that's a lot of fast and physical talent in the middle of the defense.

Good point. I think I was just trying to say that people have to be patient with our safety position. We have 3 potentially very good young guys, but their impact will not be realized until 2015 or 2016. 2014 will still be a transitional period. Everyone wants results NOW, but that is not how you build for the future.

 

We have re-built our O line, D line, ILBs, Safeties, RBs, TEs, & partially WRs in the past 2-3 years. We will hopefully start seeing returns from this in the next 1-3 years. We are a young team that is slowly phasing out the old regime. We have a good foundation, but people need to be patient.

 

We still need to re-build our Pass Rush OLB(s) and further build our CB core and WRs, but that will come.

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Will Hill is 23 he has Time. I'm pretty confident he doesn't see much time outside of injuries. He'll be stashsd for next year and then we see what hes got.

I know you guys want him to come on the field and continue his play from New York but this is the BALTIMORE RAVENS. He has to earn his spot on the field which is hard to do when you can't practice for 1/3rd of the season.

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